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On December 27 2011 03:06 Shraft wrote:If we're going to win this, there are some players that'll have to start being a lot more active (I'm looking mainly at hyshes here). In fact town as a whole needs to be a lot more active, or else we're going to find ourselves at lylo in two cycles with insufficient information to work with. How do you guys feel about jay? Do you still want to off him or do you think that there's better targets? I think his play is more in line with an emotionally invested townie than scum. My scepticism toward the jay lynch probably stems from the lackluster cases on him. I'd argue that we'll gain less information if we keep arguing jay, and that it'll probably be wiser to bring forth new information on other (less discussed) players, and that we should leave jay to the vigilante(s). The problem with that is that we might not even have one. Anyway, if people find jay scummy they'll probably present more cases pinpointing his scummyness, so hopefully that problem will work itself out. Anyway, I have a new candidate for today's lynch. As the new lynch target I present to you, GiygaS! I first caught sight of him when Dirkzor pointed out his attitude toward jay. His first five posts are (more or less) stuff of no value, arguing policy lynches and general advice. It's basically filler, and thusly I won't analyse it. His first interesting post is this one: Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:28 GiygaS wrote:First of all, shut up about policies people. I know I won't back down on not implementing them, and Cyber_Cheese won't either. This whole discussion on which policy is better was really only good for generating the first bit of discussion, but now we have people ignoring actually important events to talk about this shit. Stop. On Sephiroth (goddamn you were hard to beat in Kingdom Hearts 2 ), I think his post is definitely scummy, and I'm placing my FoS on him, but I am not lynching him yet. I want to see more than one post out of him to decide if I want to lynch him, as I don't believe one singular post should ever be the reason someone is lynched unless it is really extremely crazy. I'm looking forward to his defense and responses to future questions I ask of him Here, he makes it overly clear that he is not jumping on some bandwagon without thinking it through thoroughly first. This is not a bad habit (to think things through), but from experience, only mafia feel the necessity to announce their thoughtfulness explicitly in the thread. A townie will gladly jump on a bandwagon on loose advice based off of one post in order to pressure someone, whereas scum are scared of voting because it attracts unwanted attention. This townie won't. I have a policy on myself that I won't lynch somebody off one post unless it's super uber duper scummy, which Seph's was not. I don't agree that only mafia will announce their thoughtfulness as at this point I was trying to slow down the suspicions on Seph until we got another post out of him.Just before GiygaS posted the message above, Sephirotharg posts (GiygaS was ninja'd): Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:25 sephirotharg wrote: Well, I'm a bit surprised this didn't happen faster.
Shraft, what do you want me to say? I merely made a comment based on my tendencies - if anything, explicitly stating how I play is pro-town.
Add to my case the fact that I've already acted pro-town, in generating discussion with the last part of my first post, and I'm not sure how you can justify voting for me. After this post, the oh so thoughtful GiygaS posts: Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:30 GiygaS wrote: Ninja'd.
First of all, you expected to be voted on early? A town would never have that tendency.
You made a comment on your tendencies that just sparks excuses for yourself later on down the road, that's NOT pro-town.
Your last sentence didn't really "generate discussion", as that info was used as a footnote to other people's posts already.
##Vote sephirotharg Notice how he went from being very hesitant to vote for Sephirotharg to voting for him without providing much thought or reasoning at all. (This happened over a span of two minutes - his first post was made 3:28 and his second 3:30.) This means that all it took was two minutes and a rather contentless post from Seph to turn the thoughful GiygaS into voting-aggressively-without-providing-much-thought-GiygaS. Seems rather odd and inconsistent to me. The only thing that might be interpreted as scummy in Seph's second post is that he tries to proclaim his actions as pro-town, but even taking this into consideration, it seems strange that this would be enough to warrant GiygaS's change in his attitude toward Seph. While this is strange looking back on it, I will agree, I disagree with your conclusion. In my head at the time, I treated Seph as scum, he was already tunneled in my brain. Everything he said was wrong and scummy, you can see that based off my responses to his contentless post, treating it like it was big content. Again, apologies for tunneling.After placing his vote, GiygaS is content to sit back and wait for the day to end without providing much thought on the cases presented on jay. Nor does he provide any additional thoughts on why he wants sephirotharg lynched. This is what Dirkzor discovered. He simply states: I was content because I was out of the house, it's Christmas holidays and I had shopping and a basketball game to prepare for. Not to mention all my free time was on programming an rpg I'm making for computer science.Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 04:49 GiygaS wrote: I just read seph's defense and I've skimmed throught his whole jaybrundage thing. I'm not sure on him, and not nearly as much as I am on Sephiroth. All I heard in the defense was literally "I'm not mafia, would mafia do this?" can of defense, let alone how many times he mentions "I'm town", or that he's just a noob with a bad strategy. If I read honestly from him one more time I'm going to scream D:
Reading through the rest now. This is just a contentless post attempting to make it appear as though he actually cares about how the lynch is going or making it appear as though he is contributing and actively thinking about choosing the best target for the lynch. Observe that he just uses blanket statements. He doesn't put any effort in pointing out what is wrong with the cases or just what he doesn't like (more specifically) about Seph's defense. I'm using blanket statements because I didn't want to point out the countless times it happened. I was trying to make it appear that I cared about the lynch because I did, but like you said I was gone for 24 hours.Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote: Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. This is straight up buddying with jay. There is not a single reason for a townie to ever simply "believe" another player. The only healthy attitude to have as a townie toward other players is to never give them the benefit of the doubt. Always question them. Always demand of them to provide thoughts and reasons to back their statements. To buddy up with someone is foolish. This is pure anti-town play. I'm going to explain this one sentence post here. I said (or I thought I did at the time) that I was going to look over the jay suspicions, and then I did and I posted my thoughts which were basically that the jay suspicions were null reads. Only when he gets called out by Seph he provides more food for thought, and even then he provides only general fluff and makes no real effort to refer to anything specific. Here's the post: Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 06:49 GiygaS wrote:On December 25 2011 06:38 sephirotharg wrote:On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote: Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play. A lot of the stuff on Jay is twisting words to say he's mafia. While the first evidence against you was indeed flavor text (the lurker thing), most of he stuff on you now is how you've reacted to things IMO. Meanwhile Jay only has weird flavor text twisting against him. BTW, I think the reason he hasn't scumhunted yet is there's pretty much him and you on the chopping block. That and I just get a tone of voice thing in yours that makes it seem you're way more concerned about getting lynched than Jay is, which I usually associate with a mafia. Again, I'll be more in-depth with my analysis from now on when I can.To conclude: GiygaS is a scummily scummy scum! When day turns to night, I want his body to hang on the gallows of Liquidia! ##Vote GiygaS
Analysis coming soon!
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Since I have a ton of time now, I'm going to go over each and every person thus far: with my thoughts, supported my quotes. Starting with Grackaroni.
I honestly don't think there's much reason behind Grack's death other than the fact that he was a townie town from townville. You can look over all of his posts and they are attributed almost completely to lynching Seph. The only thing that may be another reason for his death may be this post, his last before death:
On December 26 2011 11:24 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 14:34 jaybrundage wrote: Sucks Sep was town
Moving on.
I would like to lynch hyshes next he has not attributed much to the discussion at all.
And in general has not posted anything that has any significance How confident in this lynch are you? You already explained that you think lynches based purely off of policy are bad so is there something about his play that feels scummy to you or is it because of his lack of contributions. He started questioning Jay, doesn't rally add anything against him though because it's like 3 stacked WIFOMS on each other.
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Adam4167 First Impressions before reading Filter: Who the hell is this guy? Seriously, I have not noticed him :/
After: OH, this guy. Ok. Getting a town read on him because he is creating content that's new. Plain and simple, mafia don't usually do this, and he is in abundance. No so sure on his Hyshes read yet, I'll offer more thoughts once I read his filter.
Final Impressions: Probably Town.
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Hyshes First Impressions: There's a lot of suspicion on this guy... why?
After: Oh, I see why now. Let's look over his short post count shall we?
On December 24 2011 19:54 hyshes wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 24 2011 13:27 sephirotharg wrote: Aren't my actions in line with an unskilled player? Trying (and not succeeding as much as I had hoped) to lure out scum with an (admittedly) poorly executed plan. Seems less like scum and more like noob, to me. I never announced my intentions to lurk - that was a misinterpretation on your part. And don't make the mistake of thinking that you can run my life or determine what I do - virtually (in both senses) yelling at me to come back is rude and counter-productive.
As I've explained earlier, voting for myself as a placeholder was merely because I didn't want to expose any of my feelings on other players at that time - I prefer to reserve my judgments for later on. The contradictory statement was merely me saying that I didn't want votes on myself, then later in the same post saying that I was watching anyone who voted for me. After reading it over, I realized it sounded dumb and contradictory, so I changed it. Re-read both posts for yourself if you don't believe me. Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 19:33 Shraft wrote: However, he did point out one thing, namely that his play might be more in line with that of a newer/unskilled player.
He has indeed. But, as you can see in the spoiler, he is defending himself very well aware of his fault. And a he has said himself, he is not really a noob. He might be a bad player, but that basic mistake he should not be making here. + Show Spoiler +On December 23 2011 13:35 sephirotharg wrote:For myself, I've never played mafia here on TL, but I've played a small amount on some other forums. I'm not skilled, but it's still fun As for policy lynches, I'm against Lynch All Liars, only because it tends to lead to players narrowing their focuses too much - lynching someone, even if they are a liar, may not be the best idea for the town. And Lynch All Lurkers is also a bad idea, not the least because at times I am one . Same reason as before, with the added rationale that life gets in the way sometimes - papers, work, family and such all happen, and sometimes you can't devote the time necessary. With that said, doing some estimation, worst case scenario (assuming bad lynches and vig kills, with one vig, as well as all mafia kills), we have until day 3 to flip a red. Keeping that in mind, what say the people about a day 1 lynch? I'm not going to let anyone come in here, screw around with us a bit and then state "I am not a mafia" and get away with it. ##Vote: sephirotharg
This is bandwagon jumping, through and through. He even quotes someone else as an attack against the guy. Really? His defense against this has been seen already, which is basically, "I wasn't sheepvoting, this guy may be bad, but he isn't a noob." This idea is never explained.
On December 25 2011 12:06 hyshes wrote: @sephirotharg stop contradicting yourself. You clearly aren't a noob.
See what I mean? This combined with the fact that he's using a misguided blanket statement that doesn't even match up against anything Seph had said. Seph may have been making bad decisions, but the one thing NOT against him was contradictions.
On December 25 2011 20:59 hyshes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 14:42 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Alright, that didn't go so well. That mislynch was caused by both his actions, and a majority of us being relatively content with having found someone that looked scummy. For as long as there are more scum out there than we can lynch per day, we should be scum hunting after we find a most likely candidate.
Of particular concern to me was sheep voting. A few people sheep voted, if I had to name names, they would be
Dirkzor Shraft Jaybrundage Hyshes
The former two make the list because their initial votes were merely pressure. Their decision to be on the wagon at the end of the day is what matters most, and they borrowed logic from others.
At some point you're going to have to make reads on candidates other than the one you want to hang most, to make sure there is a majority if you think someone is scum. It's ok to not have new content in an analysis on a bandwagon you want to join. Scum only say so many scummy things each, it's not like every word is overflowing with scummyness, so at some point the amount of new things to contribute is going to run dry. As a townie, you have to recognise that your argument brings nothing new, and show in your post both who helped you and what logic of theirs convinced you.
The problems with reading people arise when townies get content with sheeping, and not doing any analysis. Again, if you're sheep voting, realise that you are, and show the logic that convinced you a person is scummy.
Dirkzor, Shraft, Jaybrundage and Hyshes: Tell us what convinced you to be on the lynch at the end of the day. More importantly, if you could kill somebody right now, who would it be and why?. I did not sheepvote. I'm just not gonna let anyone come in here screw with us and get away with it. Especially when they say they are a noob but clearly aren't. There is no need as town to play so anti-town in a mini setup. Trickery can maybe used in abigger game, but here we have no room for it. And thus, in a mini game i see that as scumplay. There is no point in making lists atm of who is scum or not. I'm going to wait until we know who the scum shot this night. I don't want a defense out of you yet. I want a scum list first, because you are on it, and I the best way of tracking scum IMO is to get htem to explain why that guy who isn't scum is scum. scumscumscumscum.
Final Impressions: I agree with Adam, this guy is suspicious for sure.
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Sephirotharg
First Impressions: Why the fuck did I tunnel you? >.<
After the filter: I'm mostly looking at this guy's final posts, as the times before are completely centered on him defending himself. His final real post:
On December 25 2011 11:06 sephirotharg wrote: ##Unvote sephirotharg ##Vote jaybrundage
Now that that's done, I'll post my brief thoughts on everyone in the game, because my lynching appears imminent.
Here we go (this post was started several hours ago, bear that in mind):
Grackaroni: I'm getting a green vibe off Grack. He encourages everyone to share, seems to be acting for the town in general and put some thought into his case against me. I'm concerned at his lack of activity recently, and the fact that his case against me seemed to come almost out of nowhere (according to his posts, that is), but I'd still peg him as green.
Adam4167: I'm not entirely sure about Adam. His case against me was somewhat thoughtful, and he seems interested in finding scum. On the other hand he's not worked hard at scumhunting beyond looking at me, and he has dropped off the face of the earth recently.
hyshes: Too little of his to really judge. I'm not sure, mainly because he just jumped on the bandwagon against me, and because he's contributed nothing to the town, but with so few posts I'm not ready to say one way or another yet.
Shraft: I'm feeling like Shraft is a bit more mafia-esque. He seemed quick to vote for me, then didn't really explain himself except for the feeling that my post was "scummy". And when the focus shifts to Jay, Shraft seems to mostly ignore his faults and tries to refocus the group on me. Other than that he's not been tremendously active or contributory, which is why I'm leaning mafia for him.
Giygas: I can't get a solid read on Giygas. He appears to be working to find out who the scum is, but not terribly hard. None of his posts have been truly substantive, yet I'm not ready to say he's red yet. In fact, I feel like he's green, but I'd not bet my life on it (lol).
Misder: Green. He's actively working to scumhunt, and has analyzed both of the current contenders for lynching (me and Jay). His actions thus far seem pro-town.
minus_human: 3 posts, none of which deal with the current situation. I've no idea.
Echelon_Tee: Also green. He contributed an analysis of me to the group, two in fact. Come to think of it, he hasn't said anything with regard to jay. Either way, I feel he's interested in finding the actual scum, so I'd say he is green.
Cyber_Cheese: town seems more likely, but I'm not sold on his innocence yet. He puts his FoS on me early and then just watches events unfold, until the case comes up against Jay. He hops on the bandwagon pretty quickly there. I feel that a townie would have taken a closer look at me than he did. That said, I'm leaning towards town for him.
jaybrundage: You know my feelings with regard to him.
Dirkzor: Feels green to me. He does vote for me quickly, this is true. But later he runs down reasons for everyone's votes and tries to spur discussion about who to lynch. Nothing sticks out to me, so he seems town.
So the three I'd peg as mafia, at this point in time, are: jay, shraft, and one of the lurkers (hyshes or minus_human). And his case on jay:
On December 25 2011 07:07 sephirotharg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 05:38 jaybrundage wrote: Jay- I have stated multiply times i think it was a distraction. There was no reason for you to vote for your self. It only serves to confuse people and make people second guess there own vote. Giygas stated himself that he had no idea what to think of it. Well, sure. Giygas didn't know what to think. Others understood it, mainly Misder, who told everyone we should consider it null. I've also laid out my reasons for voting for myself. So this is just a difference of opinion here. Show nested quote +Jay- It means you have been acting scummy. I want you to be active because a active town is a healthy town that can find mafia. I would prefer everyone to be active so we can catch scum when they slip. Hypocrisy. The only times you have been active are 1) when you were pursuing my lynch and 2) when you yourself are the focus of scrutiny. Other than that, you have been lurking. You say you want an active town, and defy that with your actions. Are you really town then? Show nested quote +Jay- I wanted to get your post asap because i thought we only had two hours. I turned out to be mistaken. Why would i lie about the deadline. That would just be plain dumb. I gave my scum read and its you. You defense was lackluster. It at some points didn't even make sense. Quoting Emerson seems like a stretch. I agree, lying about the deadline would be dumb. Which is why I'm calling you out on it. If you had actually made a mistake, you would have apologized, or acknowledged the fact shortly thereafter. Instead you attack Misder and myself in the space of one post, without mentioning your "mistake" at all. Seems fishy to me. And I'm not going to let you get away with merely saying "defense was lackluster". If you really think so, why don't you analyze it? This strikes me as the kind of generality that a mafia would say. Quoting Emerson was flavor, nothing more. Is it a stretch? Maybe. Does it make me mafia? No. Show nested quote +Jay- I have not lurked. And I have not made excuses for it. I have defensed my self thoroughly because i am not mafia. I have pushed your lynch because you are the scummiest person atm.
Poor grammar aside, this is an outright lie. I count 12 posts from you as of this reply. Of these 12, the first 3 are pregame fluff. The next 4 come in the space of a couple of hours, and deal primarily with my first post. The next 5 come about 17 hours later by my count, and are focused on defending yourself. That's only 9 posts in the actual game (two or three of which are one-liners), and significant gaps between the posts. Sure, you have to sleep, that's fine. But 9 posts in 2 days of play does not seem active to me, especially given the content of said posts. Show nested quote +Jay- This is VERYYY interesting. You previously said that you found Drikzor and Shraft suspicious which is down below HOWEVER you push onto me after seeing that other people are doing so. Ever since Drikzor came off your lynch wagon you dont even mention him. And you switch from Shraft who you though was suspicious to me. You are incorrect here. I said previously that I was suspicious of anyone that voted so quickly for me - in that context, specifically Dirk, Shraft and Giygas. That was on page 5, however, and I laid out my case for you on page 9. The time gap between those pages was what, a day or so? Plenty of time for my opinions to change and solidify. After seeing the others' case on you, I looked back at your filter and found you to be rather scummy. So I laid out my case against you. Rest assured, you were not the only one I looked at, however, and you aren't the only one I have suspicions about. And you are ignoring the fact that at the end of my case against you I specifically call out Shraft as another suspicious person. Dirk and Giygas I'm less sure of, and therefore I'm not willing at this time to reveal my thoughts. So what are his three scumtells? Jay, Shraft and Hyshes (kind of Hyshes, note really). Ironically, I agree with Seph now I'll be looking through Jay and Shraft's filters before I make any kind conclusion, and you already know what I think of Hyshes, but Seph's final posts are seemingly hitting the spot dead on. In particular, his case agains tJay has some well founded points. Again, going to look through his filter before I make conclusions.
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Going to take a break and then on to Shraft, going to work an hour on my programming and come back: see you then!
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On December 27 2011 05:36 Shraft wrote: There is no need for you to post your thoughts about everyone in the game. Telling us who you think is town is irrelevant (and even anti town). We are not interested in who you trust and who you don't. If everyone outs their time reads and if there's people that are town and are believed to be town by multiple players, it's like painting a big fucking target on their back for mafia to hit. Instead of writing small analyses on every player in the game, focus on the one player who seems scummiest to you, and write a good case. Writing small posts about every player doesn't benefit town in any way. Mafia knows who's town and who's not. :/ If people can come to a consensus on who's townish for now, how is that a bad thing? I want people's opinions on this before I post the rest, for obvious reasons of my time.
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On December 27 2011 11:35 Adam4167 wrote: Now that ive caught up on the thread:
Giygas: I find your analysis interesting and insightful. I am concerned with how you’ve switched from “I believe jay in his defense” and “your tone makes it sound like your more concerned about avoiding a lynch (aimed at seph)” to your more recent posts of “I agree with seph” and “sephs final posts are seemingly hitting spot on (in regards to sephs’ case on jay)”. This is a dramatic turn around from your opinions on day 1. Are you basing this entirely off of sephs flip or has something changed between then and now?
My state of mind has come with the flip of seph, and looking back on my mindset and me tunneling, which i have mentionned.
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Oh and my top 3 scum are: 1. Hyshes 2. Jay 3. Shraft
I'll explain later, as I just got DotA2 :D:D:D:D
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Looking over Hyshes agani makes me think more person with no time than person that's lurking. He isn't posting anywhere else on tl and he even gave up a spot in another game :/. Not going to vote for him, I'll analyse Shraft, JB, and Drikzor some more later.
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@Shraft, first of all, I did say that I had seph tunneled after his second post, I was still hesitant to lynch him before his first. Analysis coming on Shraft and JB now.
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On December 25 2011 16:30 EchelonTee wrote:Christmas season is really savaging this town huh -.- sigh. My thoughts at this point are in line with Cyber's, that at least some of the sheep voting that happened is suspicious. Personally I have my eyes on Shraft. Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 02:17 Shraft wrote: The more I think about it, the more I dislike sephirotharg's post. I am going to put my vote on him until I hear what he has to say. ##Vote sephirotharg After Dirk has started a case on seph, Shraft follows up with what looks like a pretty normal pressure vote; put some heat on the suspicious fellow to generate discussion, nothing wrong with that. Though he doesn't post any analysis on this, nor in his subsequent posts, that's not necessarily a red flag at this early stage in the game. However, after others have made their cases on jay and seph, he says: Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 19:33 Shraft wrote: I'm going to read through his filter once again when I get back and try to be as objective as possible. Then I'll decide if my suspicion toward him was justified or not.
But instead of coming back and posting anything from seph's filter that he finds scummy, all he says is: Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 07:29 Shraft wrote: All right, just read through the last two pages. I still think that seph has a higher chance of flipping red than jay. At first glance the cases on jay seem far-fetched to me. I'm going to read them through in detail once again now and make a more substantial post, but at the moment the chance of me switching my vote from seph to jay is slim. After the wagon has hit full steam, Shraft seems to just sit back and let the show unfold. I don't like this; not only does he shrug off concerns with jay by simply discrediting seph, he is content with letting seph go under without making a strong case in either direction, or even re-analyzing his position as he said he would. sephirotharg, who, though misguided, is now known to be unbiased, also noted this odd behavior from Shraft. At the moment I am suspicious. I will be looking forward for what you have to say regarding who you want dead and why. First of all I just want everyone to see EchelonTree's case again, as I won't be using any of the things mentioned in his post as my analysis. His points were: 1. Pressure vote without reasoning is suspicious 2. Just lets the bandwagon go after it's started 3. Get's some suspicion off Jay by discrediting Shraft (what I call Chainsaw Defense if Jay is found as mafia)
So on to my own reasons:
On December 24 2011 07:00 Shraft wrote: RE: Sephirotharg lynch
There is no doubt that your post generated discussion, in fact I put my vote on you to see if there'd be surprisingly many people hopping aboard the bandwagon and to see how you responded. Lynching you solely because of that first post isn't really clever. This seems to me like shifting the blame off yourself in the case of the Sephiroth lynch went bad. Especially considering you never made any more reference to these ideas in any of your posts and you still stuck on the Seph bandwagon for the duration. I also think this because your post here seems a lot more artificial than your others, hopefully other people will see this is your posts as well.
On December 25 2011 21:43 Shraft wrote:Spoilered the quote. + Show Spoiler [EchelonTee's post] +On December 25 2011 16:30 EchelonTee wrote:Christmas season is really savaging this town huh -.- sigh. My thoughts at this point are in line with Cyber's, that at least some of the sheep voting that happened is suspicious. Personally I have my eyes on Shraft. Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 02:17 Shraft wrote: The more I think about it, the more I dislike sephirotharg's post. I am going to put my vote on him until I hear what he has to say. ##Vote sephirotharg After Dirk has started a case on seph, Shraft follows up with what looks like a pretty normal pressure vote; put some heat on the suspicious fellow to generate discussion, nothing wrong with that. Though he doesn't post any analysis on this, nor in his subsequent posts, that's not necessarily a red flag at this early stage in the game. However, after others have made their cases on jay and seph, he says: Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 19:33 Shraft wrote: I'm going to read through his filter once again when I get back and try to be as objective as possible. Then I'll decide if my suspicion toward him was justified or not.
But instead of coming back and posting anything from seph's filter that he finds scummy, all he says is: Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 07:29 Shraft wrote: All right, just read through the last two pages. I still think that seph has a higher chance of flipping red than jay. At first glance the cases on jay seem far-fetched to me. I'm going to read them through in detail once again now and make a more substantial post, but at the moment the chance of me switching my vote from seph to jay is slim. After the wagon has hit full steam, Shraft seems to just sit back and let the show unfold. I don't like this; not only does he shrug off concerns with jay by simply discrediting seph, he is content with letting seph go under without making a strong case in either direction, or even re-analyzing his position as he said he would. sephirotharg, who, though misguided, is now known to be unbiased, also noted this odd behavior from Shraft. At the moment I am suspicious. I will be looking forward for what you have to say regarding who you want dead and why. I did re-analyze my position. It's when I "discredited" seph's case on jay that I determined that I wouldn't change my vote. Every point against jay was stretched too far, to make it appear as he was doing something scummy, when in fact there's nothing scummy about jay's post. It felt more like an attempt to escape the lynch than an honest try at finding scum. The problem with what you say right here is that you never mentioned that it was an attempt to escape a lynch. Actually, before you dealt with the case respectfully, as if there could be some credibility there, but you just don't agree with it. This is mostly null, but a lie like this leans me towards you being mafia.
Be aware everyone, that Shraft's posts for town cred should not gain him favor or disfavor in your eyes. Just because he's being helpful to people who don't understand something, or is trying to be helpful by noticing an inactive/blocked person, does not make him more mafia or more town.
JB coming soon.
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On December 24 2011 07:57 jaybrundage wrote: Hey guys,
Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house.
Ok lets get started. On policy lynches i think that there fine guidelines for how we should act and at the same time we should not follow them blindly and be the main reason we lynch someone.
Onto the good stuff. I think that the sephirotharg case is an interesting one. I do find his first post suspicious.
Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency.
I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that.
##Vote sephirotharg
Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something Right off the bat we see hypocrisy, bolded for your leisure .
On December 24 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote: Alright sep you just got a warning. As of now i see as scum and you have a lot of votes on you. Plz address these concerns.
And it would be great for you to give your scum reads. As we have about 2 and a half hours till deadline.
If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum. Give us everything you got this is the time you can change the vote. Now or never.
Oh and in case my nonbolded vote doesnt count.
##Vote Sephirotharg
On December 24 2011 09:58 jaybrundage wrote: Hm I find it interesting that you choice to vote for me.
The Sephirotharg so called bandwagon is going so well because hes had some huge scum tells. If you dont realize this then you should reread his posts. I stated why i think hes scummy.
You state its stupid but please do explain that. Dont you think its weird that Sephirotharg instead of defending himself that he just leaves? And the votes for himself just not to get modkilled however he knows people are voting for him but he ignores it. He is much more likly to be lynched at this point.
The part where he edited a post to appear innocent is pretty much nailing him the coffin. A townie would not have to be so conscious of his posts because he has nothing to hide.
He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think.
And if you want to make a case on me go for it.
So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later. You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches. Here are his next two posts, again, I bolded the offensive statements. The guy is fricking bipolar in his first 3 posts. He goes from Kill Seph to Maybe he's town but vote for him anyway, to Kill Seph again (notice the timing of him being attacked by seph based off instructions he gave out to aggressiveness on seph). He's also making a list of what seph has done this game, not detailing WHY it's scummy. But you know the scummiest thing in this last post? He does not defend himself here at all, He doesn't defend himself till the next day, on further prompting. Why wouldn't he do this?
On December 25 2011 03:35 jaybrundage wrote: There is nothing scummy about my action its simple IF YOU VOTE, HAVE A CASE.
I find this part of your defense very interesting, as you had really no case on seph, you were, plain and simple, sheepvoting. Literally all he adds to the discussion this day is that Seph voting for himself has to be scummy, even though almost everyone else agreed, including vets, that it was a null read. You kept going on and on and on and on about it: why?
This and you just say seph is scummy - "It speaks for itself" without ever giving reason for his scumminess beyond him voting for himself >.<.
Another thing - Seph mentionned that you only posted to push Seph's lynch or to defend yourself, and otherwise you were lurking. Guess what's happened now that there's no easy bandwagon and your not the focus of scrutiny? Yep, we're all playing Where's Jay.
On December 25 2011 14:34 jaybrundage wrote: Sucks Sep was town
Moving on.
I would like to lynch hyshes next he has not attributed much to the discussion at all.
And in general has not posted anything that has any significance
Accusations like this are just retarded, no offense. Like seriously, you just make an accusation on him for being inactive, when you said specifically that LynchAllLurkers was a bad idea. Wtf?
Final reason to lynch JB is that if he dies and is revealed as mafia, we can then lynch Shraft for chainsaw defensing for him.
##Vote jaybrundage
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On December 28 2011 04:08 Shraft wrote:Okay, so your case consists of: - Quoting an old case
- An "artificial" post
- Something that you call a lie (and also mostly a null tell)
- Encouraging people to be aware of my posting
Addionally, you only analyse 2 of my ~30 posts in this thread. Make a real analysis. Yeah I'm going to be honest, my case on you was pretty weak, which is why I'm only 60% thinking you're mafia right now. That changes to 75- 85% if Jay comes up as scum.
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On December 28 2011 04:13 Shraft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 04:10 GiygaS wrote:On December 28 2011 04:08 Shraft wrote:Okay, so your case consists of: - Quoting an old case
- An "artificial" post
- Something that you call a lie (and also mostly a null tell)
- Encouraging people to be aware of my posting
Addionally, you only analyse 2 of my ~30 posts in this thread. Make a real analysis. Yeah I'm going to be honest, my case on you was pretty weak, which is why I'm only 60% thinking you're mafia right now. That changes to 75- 85% if Jay comes up as scum. Yup, if jay gets lynched and ends up flipping scum, everyone that defended him should be scrutinized. Specifically he pulled a chainsaw defense by just attacking seph and brushing aside the jay matter.
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Activity in this town comes in 5 minute bursts so that we get 3 posts within that period for maximum ninjas, but then we have large stretches of inactivity.
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On December 28 2011 06:32 Dirkzor wrote: I DONT KNOW WHO TO VOTE FOR! O_o
I would want to vote Jay but he isn't here to respond and haven't been for a loooong time.
Hyshes seems equally useless to vote on as he won't react neither.
That leaves Shraft and GiygaS. I sure about any of them but I'm leaning scum with giygas and leaning town with shraft.
##Vote GiygaS
I will consolidate my vote later.
what i find the most frustrating is how there is so little to work with. Do anyone else then Cyber think I'm scum? Cyber did you find my defence lacking?
I'll read some filters and come back if i find anything not already posted an analyzed Could you explain why you are leaning scum on me? I just want to know :/
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Are you fucking kidding me, well it looks like the votes won't change in the next hour, so pay attention to my words guys, as it's more unbaiased opinions.Last question, why does switching opinions on somebody make me scummy?
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On December 28 2011 11:34 Shraft wrote: If we assume that ET is going to get modkilled and that he is town, a no lynch would be preferable today. Why would losing 2 townies for nothing be preferable?
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I want to lynch you dirkzor. Why? Well let's just look at current events shall we? You were the one to organize the final bandwagon on to Jay, despite thinking I was the best candidate for lynching. You just said you want to lynch a lurker and have now had a complete 180 on that and now want to lynch me because it's now the popular opinion. I agree Cyber is a bit suspicious, I want to see his defense. And wtf happened to Hyshes?
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