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I wrote this during the dinner break of my rehersal, so unfortunately I was not able to comment on BByte. Despite BByte's elimination I did view him as scum as well as others. It is unfortunate that he got as few posts as he did in. I feel that not everyone contributed to the BByte discussion that voted for him, we need to act as a town and each put in an opinion on our vote. You can check out my comment on him, I wish I had got it out earlier
Mafia: red Neutral: normal Towns: bold
ey215 - I really have a no reason to put him in either category he has provided some information, but often only when asked. On the other hand he comments on the lurkers and liars prompt, but he never really gives an opinion on the lurking. When commented on the no comment he gets angry saying that he is being attacked for his non support of LaL although his opinion was in the middle really supporting either side. I feel his feud with BH is instead based in the fact that he is the voice of moderation in most of our posts and he is bound to get some push back as moderation would cramp BH's style. + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote: What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all! Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this.
BByte - I put him hear because he has a high scum read. He comments on how Velinath has a lot of null reads when he himself has only five reads three of which are basically unsupported.
BH - He is either a townie or has th biggest poker face in the game. I feel that his attacks might be showing the true side of people.
EB - I feel that there is a lot of bad air around EB and that his bad choice of words against BH has put him in the worst position of the game. Looking at his latest posts they seem for the most part reasonable, his break down of xsksc was pretty telling showing that he can break people down and that xsksc is being careless with his posts. I think this deserves him the neutral position as the votes for him could very well be for out of a claim that was purely emotional.
Grackoroni - I do not know what to think about him, while he does have a lots of small posts I feel each one is strong in the message it tries to send. He has been trying to dig into lurkers and has put in some of his reads. It seems that unlike others he is playing very objectively. I have no idea what this means in mafia though. I would appreciate thoughts on grack the most.
Hassy - First came across to me as scum because he seemed to overreact to BH's votes in the early game, but I like his defense that he used behind his vote for myself. I feel like even though he at first used Velinath's point to defend his vote, his second reason made sense. He has every right to be suspectful of me, but I feel he needs to contribute to the forum more. His tone suggests more of a townie tone though.
Velinath - I can say he is town or mafia for the sole reason of the amount of posts he has put up. He unlike some of my other reads is very post heavy, yet they are all in response to another users post. If you do not believe me look at his filter they almost all involve the posts of another user. While this is useful for anylitics of others I can not actually get a good read on Velinath from them.
xsksc - he has been a very odd character. I am not sure why but he blew up after EB's probing of one of his careless posts (not that all of them are). He likes to use his initial post to prove his township, but after the post he did not do much to lead the discussion. Any discussion I have been part of has always had input from the prompter, it is important for them to get idea of the prompt and why they support it.
Xtfftc - I think that he has provided good information, but has also been very active in previous mafia games. I feel his strong responses will make him a tough read and encourage others to help me figure out who he is.
I fundamentally disagree with bandwagons as
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Whoops the bottom part got cut off.
I disagree with bandwagons. Xtfftc says that if the mafia does not like the pick they will vote for a random player. The mob is not going to vote for a random player, they will vote for people who can be written off as scum by everyone without too much trouble. I am worried that there will be a mafia member that is able to defend there claims well enough for people to bandwagon on to their claim.
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My bad I skiped over Tunkeg, and jay (you all know what I tink about adam.)
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jay - to me jay is another one of those people who is being printed as scum based on the fact that he is opposed to BH in some aspect. I feel that he has provided some solid leads, but has to respond to the attacks by other more often then not. I feel like until he can get a few more unprovoked responses in until I can decide.
Turneg- he strikes me as more of a townie. I feel that in the early game he differed in his style vs BH. He instead of using more aggressive response posts, he looked at early posts and methodically made questions out of those. I feel like this is definitely more of a townie behavior. Early in the game he chose to start examining players right away, I feel that a mafia member would not have been able to think so quickly to implement a strategy as hard as this. These same questions have also put him in a bad spot as he is viewed as passively accusing, a behavior I feel is a bit scummy.
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Sorry I forgot to put these reads on my last post, after I realized that I forgot these two I did not have time to put them in.
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FUCK!!I just realized that we could have figured out EB was a townie from this post, saving us from lots of trouble.
On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Sup. Here's the things that interested me when I read the thread through initially: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. If we happen to get it wrong and kill the blue, we get a guarenteed scum lynch the next day, so it's not the end of the world Don't get the wrong idea here blues, we do NOT want you to claim now cause you'll just get shot, it's just a hypothetical situation. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:13 xsksc wrote:Ok I'm going to clarify for those unsure. Changing your past opinnion about someone or being wrong about something is not gonna get you lynched for lying. A misunderstanding is not a lie. Telling us you got roleblocked or medic saved etc when nobody visited you that night, that's a lie. Making a fake dt claim to try and lynch someone you think is scum, that's a lie. It's ok to be wrong, just don't straight up lie This is exactly what LAL is all about. Do not lie. You are allowed to change your mind. Straight up contradicting yourself is not recommended, but it's not a direct lie either. What is a direct lie is for example what's posted by xsksc, and that shit will get you lynched faster than you can say OMGUS. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote: Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.So hurry up. What kind of a bullshit vote is this. If you're gonna attack me for not posting, do it in a way that actually has even a slight chance of putting any kind of fear into me. If you explicitly state your pressure targets can get rid of your votes easily, then there is no pressure, and thus no dire need to respond to the situation. Here he says if he is lurking then to do it in a way that would put pressure on him. He was obviously not scared of being lynched a pure townie reaction. Next time you pressure me or anyone else, convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people actually respond in the way you want them up. Don't include a get out of jail free card in your post. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote: Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy. Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. Why not? Despite his methods being somewhat flawed, he's doing a helluvalot better job than the rest of town in creating discussion. Only problem with him is that he's not convincing enough in his voting spree. If I was scum I'd actually feel pretty safe ignoring him. However, it seems likely he is town, unless he has a really good scumcoach, because I'm not sure scum would draw all this attention to themselves right out of the gates.
Also he said this quote before saying he was not going to vote.
On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote: I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning.
He had already established that he was not going to give details until the morning. BH used this argument against him a little hastily.
QUOTE]On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:
On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote: I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for.
He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it.
Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense.[/QUOTE]
This quote also can be named as non useful as people get angry if you do not put down a vote. In all I feel like we need to have more analysis of the people we are getting scum reads on as a town. I will continue to look over EB's posts to figure out why they killed him. At the moment though I have come up with some hypothetical situations.
1) The mafia is dumb and voted for the player that was rated by the town as the worst townie ever.
2)EB had a read or opinion that the mafia did not like (xtfftc, xsksc, Turnkeg, jay, Velinath) the problem I think here though is that EB's claims were unsubstantiated in the case of jay a player that we already are looking to lynch. He also mentioned following breadcrumbs were a bad idea, so maybe the mafia wants us to follow breadcrumbs.
3)The mafia is just trying to throw us off with this vote. This is the worst case scenario, it means that the mafia felt safe enough to not take out players that they think the town needs to figure them out. This would mean that the majority of our reads are not strong enough or just plain wrong.
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BH's quote got messed up, my comments start at "This quote also"
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I am going to agree with BH on the fact that jay is scum. Looking back over his posts I realize that you have half filler and the other half stuff like this:
On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote: I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. You start off with shit like this a little bit of actual analysis. You can see that he changes his opinion halfway through the post. I understand that he does not have a good read on EB, but he should have just stated that he was neutral about him as opposed to leading us around in a circle.Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. Another one of these roundabout things, first he says that he thinks Velinath is townie, but he never backs it up instead choosing to say Bbyte had a good case on him (without a quote) I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much And finally you have this. I am not sure if this is a filler or a personality thing, but he compliments someone for posting after a while, but goes on commenting on how he wants to know more. You do not need to put a whole paragraph to get someone to say something, a simple question will to just fine to make you seem unaggressive. Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. Wait there is more? I am really not sure if this is part of his personality or a filler, but it does not do anything to help the town whatsoever. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me
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Velinath,
You need to include the whole quote the context that these quotes are in could be very different from the quote itself Here is an example: "All cows are green" Whole Quotes: "All cows are green in my imagination stories"
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Velinath,
It does matter that we all suspected EB. Firstly a person acts differently depending on if the are on the offensive, defensive, and neutral. I agree with grack that EB could make a good argument, that is why I was reluctant to put my read up. In my read I explicitly pointed out that EB broke down xsksc. He showed how xsksc's personality could change at the slightest pushback, making me think he is scum. He did it without losing his cool himself showing that he was a very formidable player, and one the mafia would not want to mess with.
The mafia probaly saw this as a threat and that combined with the spite everyone was showing EB made him an easy target. If the majority of people did not like EB would they really feel like his death was a real loss? Definitely not, I feel like the lack of posts about EB proves that. Since everyone felt like EB was going to be an unproductive townie they thought the act was seemingly random, so no one has had the insight to really dig into his death.
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BH,
I still feel that from now on we do need to include a reason why EB got killed along with our scum posts. I feel like it still has to make sense that the person we chose to lynch tonight had something to gain from EB's death. From your experience do you feel that the mafia had no motive (besides the fact that he was an easy kill?)
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I got permission to edit the post.
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I got permission to delete the bad posts.
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I had to redo this, because it totally crapped out on me
Hedging - when a person posts and does not give their opinion
My commenmts are bold red
On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote: BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummy This is JB's quote For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum.
Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. Read this JB, BH uses this quote to give you the definition of hedging. Look first you say you do not really think that lynching lurkers is good. That is hedging in the first degree, we have no idea WTF you think if you add the "really" in it. LOOK:
I dont think - okay you disagree I think - okay you agree I dont really think - this is basically saying think and dont think in the same FUCKING sentence. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town.
Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it?
End of JB quote
Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new.
On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote: Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote: If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information.
Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context.
On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote: Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._.
On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote: Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady. I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote: Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak. I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town
Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge.
On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote: Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful.
Worthless comment.
On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote: On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked
Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB.
On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote: jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread
Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming.
On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho.
Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME.
Hedges about me.
Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post.
On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote: And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything
Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc.
On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote: Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far.
Defending BKEXE
On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote: I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me
Hedging on EB.
On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote: OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit.
Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end.
So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy"
Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X.
However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread:
On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote: I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making. Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide
So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.
Bad arguments. No value.
On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote: I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him.
More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man.
On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote: xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post
If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it.[/QUOTE]
On December 07 2011 12:08 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:02 Velinath wrote:On December 07 2011 11:58 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote: First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage Why would you claim right now your giving mafia information that we dont want them to have. And secondly if you dont post a case on me WITH YOUR OWN THOUGHTS we gonna have another mislynch with BH leading it. You gotta stop sheeping Veli if you wanna give me your case give me YOUR case Who said anything about claiming? Read the OP, ANYONE is told they get roleblocked if they get targeted by the roleblocker, even if they are a vanilla townie. I am not giving scum ANY information here. Oh i didn't realize this in mini mafia X i dont think it was like this. Ok thats fine then
Well we know for sure that he is either the biggest idiot for not reading the rules or a mafia trying to act like a clueless townie.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D
[redEND OF QUOTE [/red]
Jay I have this to say to you. You are attacking the most established townie in town, you do not differ in opinion. You felt like you caught him in an outirght lie, but you did not even vote for him. You said earlier lynch all liars, there is a lie right so
##Vote jaybrundage [/QUOTE]
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Adam, I did not make a policy comment. I made a comment on how JB's post was hedging, leading us around in circles. If you are saying to ignore any comments made in the early game on policy, this is total BS. JB has been arguing about hedging since BH brought it up, so should we just diregard his first hedge?
Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. Read this JB, BH uses this quote to give you the definition of hedging. Look first you say you do not really think that lynching lurkers is good. That is hedging in the first degree, we have no idea WTF you think if you add the "really" in it. LOOK:
I dont think - okay you disagree I think - okay you agree I dont really think - this is basically saying think and dont think in the same FUCKING sentence. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town.
Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? The part about him being an idiot is that he did not look at the forum, when he started and choses to make an accusation against Velinath for it. I think this is scummy behavior, but what really pushes me over the edge is that he choses to make accusations against others based on BS evidence. This is nicely pointed out by Velinath: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:18 Velinath wrote:For those who missed Jay's lies: And he gets tagged team by the duo of Veli and BH. He tries to post to defend himself. Tries to show that what he did wasn't scummy. He posted his reads more then some of the people in this thread. After he knows that he is gonna get lynched he posts this.
He MIGHT have pulled off more reads than Hassybaby but that's about it. I didn't tagteam him after that post, the lynch was essentially locked in at that point and I stated that lurking was antitown. He posted a case on Veli and was soon voted for by BH and ofc Veli followed like he always does. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I voted BByte before BH did, this is just s straight up lie and he should be lynched for this alone. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I defended Adam in an earlier post, check your facts Veli follows like he always does. With no real content of his own. The funniest part is that he even states im not his strongest scum read.
"like he always does" - that's why I voted BByte before BH started a wagon on him. that's why I defended Adam when he was getting a bunch of votes. Pathetic. Lynch the liar.
I would also like to say to adam that there is one post, my read on JB that he says I use to defend him. When I made the post others had not contributed as much to the posts like Hassy and EB. Why would I incriminate him for making fillers when I had not seen strong posts by EB or Hassy?
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For anyone who thinks I am mafia, because jay is. Think about it, if I kill off jay I would only have one other teamate left, if you think I am mafia for this reason I would be killed as well. This leaves one mafia member to convince everyone else that they are not mafia. The mafia that you are suspecting me to be in would have to have a player so experienced he could take out 6 other players over the course of three days. How does this make sense?
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I am now starting to suspect ey215 as scum
First he accuses Adam, but he has no evidence:
On December 05 2011 09:38 ey215 wrote: I agree we need to get votes on record due to time zones.
For previously stated reasons:
##Vote: Adam4167
On December 05 2011 06:18 ey215 wrote:
He says here in his read that he even needs to more posts to confirm his claim! Adam4167 - not willing to call pro town. Will see how he posts after sleeping it off.
On December 05 2011 08:00 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 07:15 jaybrundage wrote: BKEXE Nice great to see some content from you i do agree with you on adam but for different reasons I also think your town reads are pretty spot on. What do you think about my reads they actually are pretty close ot yours. Im curious what you thinkg about ey he has posted alot and is not in your reads. He posted a his reads but mostly town.
And Ey if you had to choice a someone to vote for now who would it be. You said BKEXE. But i dont find him a viable vote imo I still think hes new townie unless i see a post that changes my mind about him anyone else on your radar Until he posted his last post, BKEXE was probably where I'd throw my vote. For the moment, that's just enough to get by. I'd like to see him answer your questions well. So now, if we were coming to deadline I'd probably vote for Adam4167. Feels like a lot of filler, and a couple of his points I haven't agreed with. I'm honestly not really solid on anyone at the moment. Wait, what fillers? Adam has only made three posts in the game 1) A question for the host, 2) an opinion on the prompt, and 3) an error filled response to BH. How can he have a filler if all of his posts have meaning behind it. At the same time Hassy and Bbyte had made barely any posts why not look at their lack of posts as opposed to the posts of Adam which had content (although false, but why not comment on that? + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 07:00 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:34 Grackaroni wrote:The thing that really seemed suspicious about Ey215 to me was this. On December 05 2011 04:49 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:14 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote: What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. If we say lynch all liars, townies will carry on lying like they always do. If we do lynch all liars, townies will eventually realise that they should stop. Activity doesn't prove that someone is a townie, of course. But if you have a town read on all the active players, lynching a lurker is great. On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote: On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. 100% agree, this was pretty much my point anyway. And there's a lot of similar views expressed later in the thread by others, so can we say that we've reached consensus? If we don't get a good case, we lynch a lurker. Ok, just got back to the thread and I'll respond to things as I see them. I agree that we've reached a consensus to get rid of a lurker. That means lurkers, it's your time to step up and contribute. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A LURKER TO LYNCH, I wish every one of these players would start doing their part and contribute to town. My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. Instead of looking at active players your first priority is to look for a lurker to lynch, which i consider just finding an easy lynch without having to justify why you actually think that the player is scum. First he says no one is looking for a lurker to lynch, but in the last sentence he says we should get rid of someone for not contributing. Okay, let's not look for lurkers, but still be able to lynch them for not contributing! There is no way to figure out if someone is lurking without paying attention to who is lurking!No one is looking for a lurker to lynch. Go back and read my filter I have argued that we need to be looking at quality of posts over quantity of posts. With that being said, it's hard as hell to have a solid scum read on anyone day one, and if I have to make a choice I'm choosing someone not posting, or posting hardly anything of consequence to lynch over someone that has been active. You don't lynch for information, you lynch scum. Barring having a good read, we should get rid of someone not contributing since they're not doing anything to help the town anyways.
This quote shows EY contradict himself. [spoiler]
On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote: While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
He also stated in his first post that breadcrumbing is bad. While it is bad if it lets the mafia know that you're the blue role, it's important to get people's names into post so that if you're blue and get shot we can go back and figure out the people you've checked out.
I'm fine with applying some pressure. Okay you are putting some pressure on EB to get him to vote. ##Unvote: Adam4167 ##Vote: ElectricBlack
On December 06 2011 06:43 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:54 ElectricBlack wrote: Yes.
Pressure is stupid. Either you're killing people or not. There should never exist no such thing as a pressure vote. But clearly we don't agree on that. I need to re-think my stance on you.
I am not willing to commit to a lynch candidate at this moment, I will however within a few hours explain and elaborate on my statement about hassybaby. Ok, finally got back to the thread after a long day. I apologize that I haven't been back sooner. I'm going to respond to posts as I go through the thread so if anything I say gets contradicted later by someone else I want y'all to understand why. On this post where you say you're either killing people or not, I'm more than willing to kill you tonight. I don't vote only for pressure, if I put a vote on someone I'm willing to let them hang. Wait, you just said you were voting for pressure. Don't you also say something about voting without evidence later? + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote: reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything I voted for BByte on the lurker/not contributing line of reasoning. I was really hoping we wouldn't have to use it, but if someone's inactive even if town they're not really doing us any good.
Here is another one of his contradictions.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff. Blames most established townie for starting a bandwagon.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote: Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. Jumps on a bandwagon himself
Wow that is a lot lies. While ey215 has voted he really does not make a good case look at the reason he votes for jay (I know everyone is going to say JB is dead so why care, but I am analyzing ey's random vote for him). Look: + Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 13:58 ey215 wrote:I'm personally of the opinion that we should lynch the scummiest of jayb, xtf, or hassey and see where that leads us.No reasoning whatsoever first time he mentions JB is scummy. He even says in his read (the only time he analyzes JB) On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:Ok, back from my final. For those that might care I think it went well. On the Jay case: yes, he was hedging but there's a whole lot of hedging going on early in the game. Is it because he's trying to not take a definitive stand so he can't be held accountable for it later or is it because he truly doesn't know and is offering options? To me it felt like hedging, he's been pretty definitive in some of his other posts. Wait, he says jay is hedging but then he says there is a lot of hedging in the early game. How does that justify hedging? If everyone lurked in the early game does that make lurking okayOk, this got posted while I was typing this and going through filters: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.You know before i called you outLook at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town. ##vote: jaybrundage Votes for him nothing provided beforehand even states that he is jumping on a bandwagon, has not provided any info Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option.Now that I've voted I do want to talk about the EB killing. I know it's WIFOM, but I keep going around about it and it just doesn't make sense unless he was on to something or a threat to BH (if he's scum). I'm not convinced he had Hasseybaby right, but I think one of the three he had listed is for sure scum. He just hadn't posted enough to be a huge threat and may have even been someone they could get a lynch going on.At the moment, I'm willing to give BH the benefit of a doubt. After seeing how well he's baited jaybrundage into slipping I think, if town, he's a valuable resource. It seems like we've got two mini battles going on right now xtsc(or replacement)/tunkeg and jaybrundage/BH. I notice that they both involve names that EB threw out. If jay flips town I think we look at lynching BH, if he's mafia he manipulated jay into slipping masterfully.
And this random vote catches him in one last lie:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 07:55 ey215 wrote: I was responding to two different people, why is this so hard to understand? To further clarify the point I was making is not scummy it is important. I don't think voting haphazardly is a good idea. I'll go on and respond to your upcoming response, my vote on Jay is not haphazardly throwing my vote around. I think he's the best case and am willing to lynch him. the same way I was willing to lynch BByte..
As soon as day hits EY is my vote.
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On December 10 2011 08:10 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 08:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:I am now starting to suspect ey215 as scumFirst he accuses Adam, but he has no evidence: On December 05 2011 09:38 ey215 wrote: I agree we need to get votes on record due to time zones.
For previously stated reasons:
##Vote: Adam4167 On December 05 2011 06:18 ey215 wrote:
He says here in his read that he even needs to more posts to confirm his claim! Adam4167 - not willing to call pro town. Will see how he posts after sleeping it off.
Ok, I have only read the first 2 quotes, but take a look at the time stamps. ey215 actually said the 2nd quote first, wanting to give me a bit more time to explain my shitty behavior, then 3 hours later he drops his vote on me. BKE, you are trying to make it look like ey215 is backpedaling on his vote. Stop misrepresenting the truth.I'm now going back to entirely read this - very skeptically.
Adam, I said he has no evidence, you are reading too far into his post he never says anything about the shitty behavior. He just says you are not protown, and that need he needs more evidence to prove or disprove that. Other people have analyzed your behavior, yet he says to refer back to a post (in his vote post), where he says he wants to hear more from you. He did not say in his vote post that it was a pressure vote, instead he refers to information that was non-existent.
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I wrote this above post as the night ended. Did not realize adam died.
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