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On November 09 2011 10:34 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 10:32 GMarshal wrote:On November 09 2011 10:29 GreYMisT wrote:On November 09 2011 10:28 GMarshal wrote:On November 09 2011 10:24 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 09 2011 10:19 GreYMisT wrote:
GMarshal is saying he fake claimed medic as town to help the medic, and presented the ultimatum "lynch whichever one of us is alive" . this times 500 Because I would totally do that as scum and then shoot chaoser. Totally. I also enjoy claiming godfather day 1. Anyway, I'm done explaining myself unless people have specific questions, it should be pretty clear how my actions could pretty much only come from a town viewpoint, unless you are accusing me of playing scum as well as I play a banjo with my feet. On November 09 2011 10:21 GreYMisT wrote: GM, I know you have been busy with the whole "trying not to get killed" thing, but what do you think about red21 withholding info? you have yet to mention it at all. Could you answer this please? it got lost in the potatoes post. I think they are plotting something with the info they have. Letting it play out. Its not a bad way to use it, I can't wait to see what trap they spring, because at this point its pretty much the only chance we have to pull out of this mess which I have managed to make Who do you think the second scum is btw? I assume you think the first is WBG. Its a coinflip between you and RoL/Kurmi, thanks to their incredible lurking.
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On November 09 2011 10:41 redFF wrote: here were the options for gm scum
Shoot into the townies in wbg/kurumi/super/chaoser (one of them being his scumbuddies) this would have been bad for a few reasons. First, it limits the number of scummy people at lylo, secondly it leaves the medic(if there is one) and parity cop and gives the parity cop another check(if there is a medic)
try and out the medic/claim medic and not be counterclaimed if there is a medic, then parity cop had at least 2 more checks and scum was in a spot of bother! by claiming medic, gm could have a) outed the medic, letting him shoot a blue, leaving him free to kill the cop tomorrow and hope his buddy wins in 3p lylo
b) not been counterclaimed. If he hadn't been counterclaimed, i bet that GM would have shot me and kita, he then would have made up some shit in the thread about trying to OUTWIFOM scum by protecting a townie. this would have secured an easy win.
had gm not claimed medic as scum, he would have either shot us and missed, or shot a random townie with a small chance of hitting medic/jailkeeper. this would have left both us and the medic alive, given the parity cop a 3rd check. 3 checks in a game this size on a parity cop is really bad for scum.
so yeah i think GM is scum. the optimal move for gm was to shoot chaoser, the optimal move for anyone was to shoot the medic.
that said, why would town gm claim medic. To draw a hit? What reason did gm have to think there wasnt another blue? GM would know that scum would not risk a no kill to kill a parity cop. GM would know that scum knew a parity cop with 2 checks is not that dangerous, not enough to risk a blocked shot.
If gm was town, why would he have argued with the obviously town chaoser instead of just saying he was trying to draw a hit? he would've known it was town vs town and that if he kept this up we would almost certainly lose the game.
tldr gm is scum
dont vote tho please
I've already explained how my actions, if not counterclaimed meant an instant victory for town if a medic existed, and gave at least 50% odds of hitting scum anyway. Cop is the strongest role in small setups, parity cop is just a one day delayed cop, totally worth the life of a townie in exchange for more confirmed town.
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On November 09 2011 10:48 redFF wrote: GODDAMNIT GM WHY FAKECLAIM AS TOWN THE NIGHT BEFORE LYLO JESUS CHRIST Because I thought it had a decent chance of winning the game for the town.
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On November 09 2011 11:19 redFF wrote: HOW
HOW
HOW I already explained this!
Doc exists and doesn't counterclaim till morning, mafia shoots me, they lose, 1/3 possibility of this happening.
Jailkeeper exists and dosn't counterclaim till morning, mafia shoots me. Town is in a decent positon with one dt check (either guaranteed mafia or one free townie), jailkeeper claims, 2 confirmed townies, and either one free scum or a third confirmed townie, gg, town wins.
No other blue exists, I die, flip green, mafia still has to wifom about shooting dt the next night, DT still got a check of in a pool of 4 players, 2 of which are scum, at worst chances of hitting scum are 2/3. if that is the case there will be a confirmed townie going into day 4, making town have a 50% chance of victory with no analysis.
As long as no one counterclaimed me all would be fine, and at worst I made our chances of winning at least 50%, much higher if a second blue did exist.
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I'm here now, sorry guys, just got home from work.
As far as the situation goes, thanks to the red21 check, we know that 1 of wbg/supersoft is scum. Tempted to say wbg is the scum of the two, however thanks to that check I know 100% certainty that nipples has to be scum. However I'm the only person that is convinced of that, I think, so for today I guess we'll have to choose between supersoft/wbg
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On November 10 2011 06:11 redFF wrote: great since everyone is here. gm, chez or s&g? If I had to make the decision right now? Chez.
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On November 10 2011 06:13 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 06:11 redFF wrote: great since everyone is here. gm, chez or s&g? The Vote is going to ultimately come down to you team red21 Barring any sudden changes in opinion this is what we have thus far: me and WBG are going to vote against each other, Kurumi has already said he thinks I'm scum, and GM said that he thinks WBG is scum. Thats 2v2, leaving you as the tiebreaker. I'm going to vote for the opposite of whatever kurumi's team votes, because I know them to be scum.
I'm town, there is one scum between chez/S&g last scum has to be nipple.
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On November 10 2011 06:15 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 06:14 GMarshal wrote:On November 10 2011 06:13 GreYMisT wrote:On November 10 2011 06:11 redFF wrote: great since everyone is here. gm, chez or s&g? The Vote is going to ultimately come down to you team red21 Barring any sudden changes in opinion this is what we have thus far: me and WBG are going to vote against each other, Kurumi has already said he thinks I'm scum, and GM said that he thinks WBG is scum. Thats 2v2, leaving you as the tiebreaker. I'm going to vote for the opposite of whatever kurumi's team votes, because I know them to be scum. err, that logic doesn't work. how so?
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EBWOP: Oh, duh.
So yeah, right now I'm leaning wbg/rad as the scumteam.
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On November 10 2011 06:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
The simple fact that you said your check could be fake has allowed GM and S&G to muddy the waters. Deliberate and harmful lie! At no point did I accuse kita of lying about the check or anything of the sort!
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On November 10 2011 06:21 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 06:20 GreYMisT wrote:On November 10 2011 06:15 kitaman27 wrote:On November 10 2011 06:14 GMarshal wrote:On November 10 2011 06:13 GreYMisT wrote:On November 10 2011 06:11 redFF wrote: great since everyone is here. gm, chez or s&g? The Vote is going to ultimately come down to you team red21 Barring any sudden changes in opinion this is what we have thus far: me and WBG are going to vote against each other, Kurumi has already said he thinks I'm scum, and GM said that he thinks WBG is scum. Thats 2v2, leaving you as the tiebreaker. I'm going to vote for the opposite of whatever kurumi's team votes, because I know them to be scum. err, that logic doesn't work. Regardless, you must realize kita that this comes down to your team. All I can really do to sway you at the moment is say that I am town. at the start of the day WBG jumped onto my push for you to reveal your checks, but faded off while I stayed fanatical about it. Kurumi's argument about my increase in activity around LYLO is null, because he has done the same, just with overall less prior activity. When a town WBG exists in a game, he makes damn sure everyone is voting for his "target" of the day, or goes on a flipping rampage to make sure that happens. He has not done that this game, but rather has made sure to appear aggressive, while going after a wide range of targets. No where early on does he really try to push people to join his lynch. Hopefully you come to the right choice, and lynch team chezinu. we know, but there's still the question of tommorow. we're scumhunting. Gm an answer if you please. If kurumi is scum he could just not vote and by your logic we would nolynch and lose. Yeah I realized my logic there was stupid, I'm probably voting for wbg unless you and kita have some major swaying evidence in the opposite direction.
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On November 10 2011 06:28 wherebugsgo wrote: I cannot believe this.
I'm glad you guys think I'm so good, that I would be capable of leading town astray for 3 days straight by myself, with 3 afk scumbuddies.
Good god. You did it in pony mafia.
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On November 10 2011 06:32 redFF wrote: oh fuck
chill, I'm town, you are town. We got this.
Nipple is the last scum
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I'm just going to collapse into bed now.
Playing mafia when words are dancing on your screen is a lot harder than it sounds.
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On November 10 2011 06:52 redFF wrote: also supersoft i know you're gonna waltz into the thread and tell us how amazing you are that you found the scum but honestly that was the worst town play i've ever seen and i've seen some pretty bad stuff. I think I get the award for that.
I really thought it might win us the game at the time. Lesson learned, when you are practically hallucinating, your "brilliant plan" is probably not so brilliant. It *could* have worked though!
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On November 10 2011 07:04 wherebugsgo wrote:This is the situation we faced this game: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Follow_the_Copit's really only breakable with a roleblocker. I wouldn't call the setup imbalanced if I hadn't experienced it myself (I'm not blaming anyone, I don't blame Palmar, I'm just saying that in the future this needs to be changed) IMO mafia should never be punished for forcing a roleclaim. People claiming and then loling to victory is just crazy stupid IMO. This game is about analysis, not dumb luck. That is why I argued for either a roleblocker/framer or a miller in the pregame, DT is just too powerful without it, especially if there is a high probability of protection roles being present.
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On November 10 2011 08:09 Palmar wrote: btw, just to give insight, what's considered the problem with this setup on mafiascum, is the fact that once only 1 scum is left, he can basically jail the other scum and act as a backup cop, because over there they get told they save a life or something. That's why no one gets notified of anything this game.
Edit: and remember on mafiascum, the cop is normal, so they can easily find a guilty on n1 and n2, thus just ending the game, and even then mafia is winning about half of the time
They actually are not notifed, but that was a potential problem in this game too.
Imagine chaoser as a jailkeeper, and kita surviving to day 3. Jailkeeper claims. We lynch scum of off kitas check
jailkeeper roleblocks one of the remaining players, dt checks the other. if anyone dies the person who was rbed is confirmed town. If no one dies, lynch off of the dt check.
And mafiascum towns suck, terribly. Reading over their games made my eyes almost literally bleed, apparently not answering the question "what is your favorite movie" is grounds for being lynched.
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Lessons learned this game: Cops are awesome! Fever leads to terrible plays. Counterclaims should wait till day.
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On November 10 2011 08:24 Palmar wrote: yes, that was my initial reason for nerfing cop -> parity cop
I am more than willing to change the 2of4 if we intend to use it again on TL. It's not about me defending the setup, it's me having a problem with people who blame the game (lol @ fucking zerg whiners on TL) instead of blaming themselves, even if the odds are slightly against them, that's what I consider a challenge.
Can someone suggest a modification to the 2of4 setup that would make it more balanced.
I ran this version on another site:
1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Cop, Doctor. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Cop, Veteran. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Vigilante, Veteran. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Vigilante, Doctor. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Vigilante, Cop. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Doctor, Veteran.
It replaces rolecop with roleblocker, and removes jailor/vanilla and adds vigilante and veteran Honestly, on tl I see two blues in a 9 player setup as too much. The proportion I've found works well is 1 blue for every two mafia. Cop is really strong in small setups, and the vigi is basically a free confirmed townie for the town. The "easiest" fix for stopping follow the cop would be to either make 1 vt a miller or replace the somewhat useless rolecop with a framer. Or a roleblocker, and just have the scum rb resolve before the jailkeeper roleblock, I never saw how that was an issue at all tbh.
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