Lets get talking people, we need to figure out who we are going to lynch today, and we need to hit scum, sitting here twiddling our thumbs isn't going to get us anywhere.
So, Sandroba and Radfield, who would you guys like to lynch today?
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GMarshal
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Lets get talking people, we need to figure out who we are going to lynch today, and we need to hit scum, sitting here twiddling our thumbs isn't going to get us anywhere. So, Sandroba and Radfield, who would you guys like to lynch today? | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 06 2011 10:44 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 04 2011 20:31 GMarshal wrote: On November 04 2011 04:30 Radfield wrote: GMan, you don't get off that easy though. You built a case on Prp, then wibble-wobbled at the end of it. Your next post basically says the same thing: he might be scum, but he might not. Yet, you're vote remains squarely on Team Viking(Prp & Forumite). Do you think Team Viking is worthy of lynching right now? No, I don't, I fully admit my case was extremely weak, I was merely stirring up things to see how people reacted and try to get a better read on the situation. I voted for them with a relatively weak case because I felt like there was no real progress being made in the thread, and I wanted to open a new avenue of attack. GM, after your case on me and red fell through, you said you were going to "reevaluate things", yet you never returned to the thread. Earlier in the day you said Team Viking was not worthy of a lynch and that your case on them was "extremely weak", yet without any further explanation your team votes to lynch them. What happened to change your mind? EBWOP[/QUOTE] I didn't change my mind. My partner made a last minute call to avoid a no lynch, and I think it was a good call, I still don't think there was a good case on team viking, and would have rather lynched team edward out of the choices when the day ended yesterday. Still we avoided a no-lynch, which is crucial. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
responding to kita (its not like the thread is so active that I need to quote so you see who I am talking to): I didn't change my mind. My partner made a last minute call to avoid a no lynch, and I think it was a good call, I still don't think there was a good case on team viking, and would have rather lynched team edward out of the choices when the day ended yesterday. Still we avoided a no-lynch, which is crucial. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 06 2011 11:48 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 06 2011 11:25 GMarshal wrote: I didn't change my mind. My partner made a last minute call to avoid a no lynch, and I think it was a good call, I still don't think there was a good case on team viking, and would have rather lynched team edward out of the choices when the day ended yesterday. Still we avoided a no-lynch, which is crucial. You never mentioned edward in the thread? If he was your preferred lynch, was there a reason you didn't state so? Is he still your preferred lynch and if so, why is that? Of the three choices at lynch time, edward, viking and SS, I think edward was the best possibility. I didn't state it, because I wasn't here for the last few hours of the day, fortunately Crofty was, and did what had to be done, I do believe he voted for team edward before having to change our vote to avoid a no-lynch, yes? As to who the best lynch for today is, I'm not sure yet, I need to re-read the thread and try to get a feel for it, especially considering the death of the iGrok team, I need to see who they thought was suspicious and any other interesting connection or reasons why they might have been killed. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 06 2011 12:04 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 06 2011 11:52 wherebugsgo wrote: Second bolded part is a straight up lie. We didn't "casually" mention it. I was referring to Radfield's absence mainly. As for "casually" mentioning it, it just didn't see like there was much determination, but I'll drop it. Show nested quote + On November 04 2011 22:42 Radfield wrote: Chaoser and Hyshes: A good lynch target at this point, though I'm willing to be swayed. Show nested quote + On November 05 2011 05:31 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm up for killing team Edward today, but nothing is concrete obviously. Show nested quote + On November 06 2011 11:56 GMarshal wrote: Of the three choices at lynch time, edward, viking and SS, I think edward was the best possibility. I didn't state it, because I wasn't here for the last few hours of the day, fortunately Crofty was, and did what had to be done, I do believe he voted for team edward before having to change our vote to avoid a no-lynch, yes? I assume before you left, you discussed with Crofty who you felt should be lynched? Did you mention that you felt Viking was a poor lynch? Why was it something that "had to be done"? You don't lynch someone you think is a poor lynch just for the sake of lynching someone, no? I didn't discuss anything before leaving, actually, I just kind of left, poor play on my part, but I'm busy, and didn't realize I would miss the lynch. As I;ve advocated, day 1 a lynch is crucial, and there were already 4 votes on the candidate, which means that in a traditional deadline lynch they would be killed, then yes, you might vote for a sub-optimal lynch, someone you are not sure is scum (not someone you are sure is town, obviously, but someone who your reads are unclear on), to make sure you don't have what happened in the newbie game happen, where town spends all of day 2 derping in circles. I've already talked about how having a lynch flip to work with day 2 is essential, so I won't bore you with another diatribe. Yes it had to be done, I stand by that, one of the main lynch candidates had to die, so that the following day would not be "more about team viking". | ||
GMarshal
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On November 06 2011 12:35 chaoser wrote: LOl, what was the case against me again? Gm, you didn't even talk about my team while crofty has contributed nothing, his only reason was agreeing with wbg on his bullshit case. Your team has done absOlytely nothing. Also, if I was mafia, why would I try to make sure there wasn't a no lunch, offering my team and Viking as valid lynches. Sorry, your right, I haven't written any walls of text, promoted activity or made any meaningful accusations. Please, point out what you have done, other than defend yourself desperately. I'm not saying you are mafia, although your pissed off attitude is rather unlike what I expect of you, I'm saying that between you and team viking I had more of a town feeling on viking than on you, nothing personal, but between the two choices, I would have rather seen you dead. I didn't really talk about your team, because first I was sure kita/redff were scum, then I had to leave before really settling who the hell I wanted to vote for. By the time I got back the lynch was over. Ten thousand apologies, but at least half my team was here for the lynch. Also LOL, I've been one of the most active people in this game, the fact that you have the gall to call me useless suggests to me that you aren't even reading the thread. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 06 2011 14:54 sandroba wrote: Ok I gather you guys think each other is mafia but I'd like to see a well constructed argument from both of you. It's indeed suspicious that wbg/rad didn't get shot tonight, but honestly they have not been on my radar before the day shift. I want to hear more from hyshes/radfield aswell as rol. Previous game are irrelevant, but of course meta plays a role. The main thing making me lean towards chaoser scum right now is the fact that hyshes is totally gone and that is unexpected considering what chaoser said previously. Also RoL needs to post. I'm not afraid of lynching someone that doesn't give a fuck about this game, and you can bear the blame of the loss if you are town. Of all the things that make you suspicious of chaoser the fact that hyshes is MIA, which chaoser has no control over, is what makes you suspicious? Also if you had to lynch someone right now, in the next 15 minutes, who would you lynch? | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 07 2011 05:01 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm really interested in GM's, super's, and kita's thoughts, since they are my best townreads at this point. I'm going to be gone for a few hours though. Also, Radfield says he's still quite sick but he'll try to step it up by tomorrow. It kinda sucks because I was hoping I this game would be more of a partner discussion type of thing I'm exceedingly busy helping run the first team liquid MLP Marathon I'll get back to you tonight, when we are done with this frenzy. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 07 2011 21:09 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2011 20:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On November 07 2011 12:49 Kavdragon wrote: On November 07 2011 11:42 kitaman27 wrote: GM is too busy with his pony colt. Corrected. The greatest typo of all time, or most clever pun of all time? If you are town, the fact that you can come into the thread and make comments like this yet even one relevent post is beyond you make me sad. There's a pretty good chance of you getting lynched and I would much prefer if you came back to make some sort of a fight. Team Chezinu has to die today, if they don't this game is lost. The AFKers are too willing to sheep WBG because its easy to agree with someone who makes long posts if you don't actually read them and realise how repetitve and meaningless they are. How are his posts repetitive and meaningless? Its easy to make blanket statements, harder to prove them. Prove it, decon. As to everyone who is using "if I were scum, I would have killed team Chezinu", I suggest you read up on the term, WIFOM. Maybe scum is outsourcing the problem, maybe they were afraid of jailkeepers, maybe they were high, don't make assumptions based on who the mafia kills. The only people who can say for sure why someone died is the mafia. Seriously, you guys want team chezinu lynched? Provide a case, because right now, I'm seeing "wbg is active and rad is a good player, they are alive, ergo, scum!" Also, I kind of want to kill team nipple so we don't have to deal with them tomorrow, when it might be lylo. I mean I was going to analyze them, but between the both of them they have *maybe* 20 posts, most of which don't accuse anyone or *do* anything. That said, I'm not entirely sure that they are scum, it would be a lot easier to figure out if they posted more!. T.T Also, has anyone noticed that supersoft and greymist haven't been doing much? What do you guys think about the current situation? More posts coming up shortly as I reread the game. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 06 2011 17:49 wherebugsgo wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 06 2011 14:54 sandroba wrote: Ok I gather you guys think each other is mafia but I'd like to see a well constructed argument from both of you. It's indeed suspicious that wbg/rad didn't get shot tonight, but honestly they have not been on my radar before the day shift. I want to hear more from hyshes/radfield aswell as rol. Previous game are irrelevant, but of course meta plays a role. The main thing making me lean towards chaoser scum right now is the fact that hyshes is totally gone and that is unexpected considering what chaoser said previously. Also RoL needs to post. I'm not afraid of lynching someone that doesn't give a fuck about this game, and you can bear the blame of the loss if you are town. hmmm... I don't really know how to approach this post lol. I kinda like it I guess? But I dunno, something seems up with you, sandro. I can't really put my finger on it. Does anyone else feel this way? I do, however, agree with this: On November 06 2011 15:08 sandroba wrote: I'd lynch kurumi and rol. Next to chaoser, kurumi and RoL are one of the teams that is pretty up there in terms of scumminess. What's weird, though, is that you supported Kurumi's no-lynch plan and you are almost as inactive as Kurumi (albeit RoL has done literally nothing) I'm not sure how to read sandro's team at this point, but I think they might be a good option. Finally, here's a compilation of the chaoser+hyshes case, so it's easier for people to read. Also, big apologies for destroying a couple pages of the thread; I've been trying to reduce my postcount since XLV but it's obvious I haven't learned yet. I don't intend to spam or intimidate people out of posting their opinions. (quite the contrary, I like active contribution) chaoser and hyshes My suspicions on these two players started with this post, and it more or less describes the hyshes half: On November 03 2011 08:42 hyshes wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2011 08:31 Forumite wrote: On November 03 2011 08:00 GreYMisT wrote: One thing that will be interesting this game will be analyzing the behavior of teams. do we judge the 2 players as a unit, looking for scum behavior in both? Or is one player acting scummy enough to vote. Tricky... Two posters means twice the risk of mistakes, I would have liked to say that means it´s twice as easy to find scum, but Town make stupid scumslips too. I think we´ll have to take it on a case-by-case basis. Actually the best way of playing this kind of mafia is splitting up your team. If only one of you knows your role, then only one can make mistakes. The only thing you need to do together is analysis of the other teams. To prevent any possible mistakes, must the one who knows the role only paraphrase what his teammate says. Ofcourse by the second night the one who knows should tell the one who don't (a few nights later depending on the size of the game). There is an obvious easy mistake to make here: the role should always be hidden, even it's town. First thing hyshes posts in the thread, and it basically suggests we should minimize mistakes at all costs. As I pointed out repeatedly, (as did prpl+Forumite) only scum want to minimize mistakes, and only scum are afraid of being caught. Townies should not be afraid of making mistakes because they really have nothing to fear. Townies can go out there and state their opinions freely; they do not need to be overly careful and they do not need to be deathly afraid of making mistakes. Certainly, townies need to exercise judgment and restraint when they are wrong, but they never need to be afraid of being wrong. The behavior of hyshes certainly pushed the notion that he was afraid of being wrong, since he even posted afterward that he expected to be hailed as a genius for his plan. Lastly, two more things hammered in my suspicion of hyshes. One was this post, the sole other "contribution" hyshes made to this game. On November 05 2011 02:23 hyshes wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2011 20:59 Forumite wrote: Show nested quote + It´s not abusing mechanics, it´s using what you have in order On November 03 2011 20:06 supersoft wrote: On November 03 2011 19:11 prplhz wrote: About the new rule: this is pretty cool but chaoser still has to answer for why he didn't want additional content put into the thread back when it was allowed. More content equals more material for analysis, it's not like more content equals autoconfirm. to be fair i dont think chaoser is lazy scum who doesnt want to fake logs. i think he wants to play mafia by analyzing and discussing instead of abusing the mechanics of an online mafiagame. he made that pretty clear. to win. The biggest advantage of an IRL-mafia is gone, we can´t see the other players, but it´s not like reading faces is "abusing the mechanics" in an IRL-game, it´s just part of the game, like going back and checking posts is in a forum game. Chaoser is absolutely correct in that forgeable logs can loose Town the game, I just don´t agree with reflexively throwing away tools that might have helped us. This still doesn´t excuse how Chaoser and hyshes has acted in other respects, Chaoser taking a backseat while his partner suggest Anti-Town plans. I thought Chaoser would have stepped in if he thought hyshes was making a fool of himself, instead he waited until he was called out. Chaoser was actively lurking while his team was being accused, that doesn´t make sense, unless he was weathering the storm, hoping that hyshes would be excused because of him being new. One player is acting scummy, and the other just happens to be acting scummy, makes me suspect they are a scumteam. ##Vote TEAM EDWARD + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2011 07:52 prplhz wrote: Well I'm sold, I hope Forumite feels the same way 'cause: ##Unvote ##Vote Team SS + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2011 11:57 Forumite wrote: I´ve got my eyes on Team Nipple, both of them. Let me show you some relevant posts:+ Show Spoiler + It´s actually the only relevant posts since the game started, and there´s 2 of them... On November 04 2011 02:31 Kurumi wrote: Kurufesto It's good to be back, guys. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2011 07:45 GMarshal wrote: Cool, a game of mafia [/cent er] It's traditional at this point to post a picture of the reaper So, Iets do this thing. First thing first As usual there is no excuse for lurking, don't do it and you won't have me lobbing for your lynch. Seriously, 2 players per team should mean a more than decent level of activity, you aren't going to get away with 2~3 posts per cycle unless they are an outstanding, wall of text, analytical set of three posts. So post, transparency and information means we have a greater chance of success. Second thing (this should *not* be a point of discussion, as what I am about to talk about is too general for us to really talk about, I just wanted to make sure it was said). Because there are no vigilantes, if we have a jailkeeper he should be using his protect/roleblock offensively, that is "protecting" scum in an attempt to roleblock the kill, rather than going after the most outspoken townies and possibly roleblocking a power role. This style should encourage activity (scum no longer want to risk being lurkers if it might make their kill fail) and with the possibility of a medic in play scum still cannot afford to shoot the top players. Other than that there isn't that much to say on the setup until we get later in the day and can talk about dt lists and such. My lurker policy remains the same as always, and yeah, that's about it. I am against lynching lurkers. First, the setup is really small, so we should delay the game and make it as long as we could. Scum, unless terrible or really overloaded with RL stuff (they shouldn't join game then, but hey it happens) won't lurk. Remember, scum are those MIDDLE guys, not so active or inactive to draw attention. "But it sounds so cool Kurumi... go get them Yourself, let me derp my way to LYLO" Yeah I know Towns on TL are quite damn lazy and with all the info coming out at the beginning of the game, quoting guides by either side and stuff like that and forget all of it after D1 lynch but.. I am not going to forget, I wish to play my best this game. "But Kurumi, Mafia has a Role Cop!" With 1 blue, they will have hard time finding Team with it. With 2 blues, we will get enough protection/information to retaliate strong enough. Remember, the more time Parity Cop gets, the stronger we are, because he can slowly confirm people. I think we shouldn't worry about Mafia Role Cop too much. Lurker lynch is a bad idea. We either no-lynch or lynch the scummiest fuckers out there. With a mislynch, Mafia ALREADY got their KP per cycle! If we don't get a good protect/block or we just don't have roles for it, 2 people are dead by Day 2. Meanwhile, Mafia Role Cop has checked one of the roles. That means, 3 out of 7 people roles are known to Mafia, another lynch and it's 4 out of 5, if the (only one) blue survived to this time, he will be killed during the night, no matter the lynch result. Summary: Lurker lynch is a terrible idea, Mafia rarely lurk without any special plan. No lynch does not put us behind: Our blue will survive longer this way. Lynch = scummiest person, remember! Try to keep Your post readable... I am trying, so You should too. On November 04 2011 02:49 Kurumi wrote: Lurker lynching is often an excuse not to lynch someone, just add "I dunno, he doesn't seem so scummy to me" and voila, You've got Your lurker lynch. Giving You no information about people who voted on the lurker (and we probably won't have this problem) and giving You a green flip. Day 1 lurker lynch is.. worse than a no-lynch, because we will hit town on 99% of basis. Analysis: + Show Spoiler + Kurumi makes two policy posts, both saying that lynching lurkers is a bad idea, then proceed to lurk again. I don´t know if this is some crazy plan by a scumteam to confuse Town, or if they´ve just given up on the game, but whatever it is they need to snap out of it and post. If we are looking for anti-Town behavior, then here it is, and they deserve to be lynched for it. First TEAM VIKING is trying to get all kinds of votes going on different teams. And then, out of the blue, without metioning team red21 before, they directly go along with GM's post. + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2011 01:08 Forumite wrote: I don´t have much time to post. I just want to say that I support GM's case and throwing mine and prplhz's vote to support it. We won´t be here for the lynch, but I think it´s the best place to put that vote right now, so that´s what we have to go by. If something huge comes up before the deadline then I expect there to be enough people online that one vote won´t much matter. ##Unvote ##Vote Team Red21 Also: FoS Nipple, post moar! This was the vote that spawned the prpl+forumite bandwagon. We cannot forget this, as this is probably the single most important thing that happened yesterday. (yes, even more important than kita+redFF claiming PC) The entire vote is based on the idea that Forumite and prpl were throwing their vote around on different players. Somehow, (even to chaoser) this became a scumtell. This vote was completely unreasoned, and to me it came across with a scum agenda; get the attention off of themselves by leading the lynch on someone else. The fact that the vote lacks analysis (both on the part of hyshes and on the part of chaoser) is suggestive of the fact that prpl and Forumite were just scapegoats. Hyshes and chaoser picked a weak team to target and quickly relieved themselves of a lot of pressure. In the end, the bandwagon worked and it saved them from a lynch. The third and last thing that hyshes did was he disappeared after this. Just dropped off the face of the Earth, and he hasn't been here since. For a team that was supposed to be chaoser coaching hyshes, this is incredibly suspicious, particularly as chaoser has many times the number of posts hyshes has. That doesn't sound like chaoser is coaching hyshes at all. Now, the chaoser half: On November 04 2011 03:10 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2011 19:04 prplhz wrote: RebirthOfLegend's team mini game was an entirely different game where the setup itself made mentor/newbie teams. You lurked hardcore through that game and ended up getting lynched as DT, leading to a perfect mafia victory. I don't get why you are trying to shut discussion down. Nobody is lynching hyshes yet, but his plan did look like it was conceived by a mafia mind. Then you bring out an explanation about why plans are usually posted in the thread, covering a lot of scenarios that clearly do not apply, and missing the scenario that did apply. hyshes didn't try to draw out mafia by intentionally posting a bad plan and I don't think that hyshes seems like he is bad at thinking up plans. hyshes made his post, knowing that the plan could not be implemented just to appear clever. Mafia will have an interest in appearing to be good or potentially good for town, without actually contributing. This is what hyshes did and this is a scenario that your sharp mind did not cover in your plan analysis for some reason. First of all, that game was only a mafia win because Aidnai decided to WIFOM himself into voting with someone THAT WASN'T EVEN THERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF. Show nested quote + On January 11 2011 18:06 Ace wrote: kudos to Nemesis and chaoser for being clutch and not thinking like idiots. Also for future reference of why I believed Subversion had to be Scum: On January 10 2011 07:34 Ace wrote: I'll believe Nemesis over an absent player. Why would you side with someone that isn't even defending himself? On January 10 2011 11:52 Ace wrote: Sometimes it's just better to think of a simple answer. You have no idea what the Mafia know and don't know their motives. Hence it's just a simple decision on who is more believable here. Stop WIFOMing yourself. This was a really simple decision but you got caught up in stuff that really made no sense. Trying to find out who is the other Scum before getting on with the current lynch was a bad idea. Secondly how am I trying to shut down discussion? I said the "post your team convo lawl plan" was bullshit and not playing to the spirit of the game and that I wouldn't stand for it. Palmer decided he agreed and added in the new rule, I then said that a mafia mind doesn't generally think up stupid shitty plans. Go read any number of games but especially LoTR's opening days where tons of shitty plans came forward and all of them were by townies. Dumb play/=Mafia. Where in any of the things that I just said does "HE IS SHUTTING DOWN DISCUSSION!" come into play? I'm actually ADDING to discussion by pointing out my opinions. Show nested quote + Then you bring out an explanation about why plans are usually posted in the thread, covering a lot of scenarios that clearly do not apply, and missing the scenario that did apply. hyshes didn't try to draw out mafia by intentionally posting a bad plan and I don't think that hyshes seems like he is bad at thinking up plans. hyshes made his post, knowing that the plan could not be implemented just to appear clever. Thanks for summarizing my stance and posting nothing here. Also, are you trying to say that you know what hyshes' motive are in posting that? I didn't realize you were psychic. How do you know for a fact that hyshe wasn't trying to draw mafia out? How do you know he's NOT bad at making plans? How do you know what he was thinking when he posted that plan? Have you played with him before? Are you talking to him in PMs? Oh right, you're not and you've never played a game with him. What shitty logic. This is the first post that originally stood out to me from chaoser. Highlighted are the important parts. red=dismissed prpl's statement rather angrily (or so it appeared to me) without actually addressing his point. Prpl was stating that this game is not specifically a mentor-type game, with the implication that chaoser can't just cop out of being here because he's coaching hyshes. Chaoser instead takes offense to the statement that he got himself lynched as DT. (missing the point) green=once again, missing the point. Chaoser focuses on the notion that the bad plan doesn't make hyshes scum, though he does nothing to address the motivation concerns. In fact, the crux of the argument against hyshes had nothing to do with the plan at all, but rather the reasoning behind the plan. This can be seen with prpl's reference to the fact that he thought, "it was conceived by a mafia mind." Also, he incorrectly and misleadingly exaggerates by implying that only townies post bad plans: Go read any number of games but especially LoTR's opening days where tons of shitty plans came forward and all of them were by townies. This is actually completely false. I actually remembered one certain someone posting a plan in LoTR, who was universally thought to be town for quite a while, until chaoser himself shot him. This person was none other than my current partner. The FIRST plan that was posted in LoTR: + Show Spoiler [LoTRRadfieldPlan] + On September 17 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote: HOW TO AVOID A DAY 1 SHITSTORM by Radfield Raddisson The key to avoiding a crappy Day 1 culminating in a no-evidence townie lynch is to figure out our priorities. What do we actually want on Day 1? First, we want to get everyone down on paper. Thoughts, feelings, vibes, etc. I really don't care what you're saying right now, I just want you to say it. Second, establish a baseline of activity. PlayerA makes 20 posts Day 1 and 5 Day 2, that's a problem since there is very little to talk about on Day 1 and a whole lot more on Day 2. Step 3, avoid lynching an easy target. This is a player with a few bad posts, or some flip floppy votes, or a badly phrased 'scum slip'. Easy targets give scum great excuses to get on a bandwagon. Instead we're going to lynch someone who is fairly active, but not saying anything worthwhile. With 5 posts per cycle it means we're going to have something to go on, however likely not till the later half of Day 1. Which leads to: Step 4. Hold your votes. Slamming votes around 6-12 hours into the game is not productive. Take off your scum-goggles and allow people to post. Have a suspicious person in mind? Great, sit on it and let them keep posting. See if they keep posting scummy stuff.... THEN attack them. All players should be keeping a spreadsheet with notes/roles/activity levels/ etc. Posts like this(mine) should not be given consideration when you are trying to determine a players alignment. Are there helpful tips in my post? Absolutely. Have I said anything remotely game related? Absolutely not. Anyone can talk in generalities. Anyone can offer advice. Honestly, I cannot stress how important it is to keep a spreadsheet. If you don't know who's still alive in the game, or who claimed what, or which players voted for whom, then how can you make informed decisions? For those who don't remember, Radfield was scum. So much for "only townies post plans day 1 and put themselves out there", eh? The only other player I can recall who even made a plan that game was Trancestorm. And if it's somehow specifically a bad plan that makes it different, then we haven't even considered sandro's plan from PYP, have we? Pretty bad plan it was, IMO, and the way he pushed that plan caused me to be suspicious of him from nearly the beginning of the game. Indeed, this game he pushed a fairly bad plan too, but I'm not sure of him in this game because the way he approached it was different. In fact, his behavior has just been giving me ??? all over the place because I can't find consistency in this game. blue= Chaoser misses the point for the third time in a row and once again twists prpl's words. In chaoser's own words, either a townie intentionally posts a bad plan to draw out mafia (and prpl calls out chaoser on this, since chaoser is mentioning a scenario that doesn't apply) or a townie posts a bad plan because he is bad at coming up with plans. There is nothing that just automatically makes townies worse at coming up with plans. The idea itself is stupid, and indeed you are committing self-deceit if you simply and almost automatically assume anyone who comes up with a bad plan is town. prpl correctly and very effectively points out that mafia have a vested interest in appearing like they are contributing. Posting a plan is a great way to do this. Indeed, we need to look at classic behavioral tells that suggest that it is indeed a scum posting a bad plan and then trying to get away with it, and we later see that this is exactly the case with hyshes. As prpl stated, this was the one situation (scum trying to appear town) that chaoser very conveniently glossed over in his posts about who posts plans and why. In looking to establish whether the plan poster is scum or not, we would need to look at the behavior after the post. Scum would want to feign contribution and then fly under the radar to remain unsuspecting. This is exactly what hyshes did. After the plan was posted, he really didn't do anything. Then, when it came to crunch time and it was apparent that he and chaoser would be a focus for the lynch, he started the bandwagon on prpl+forumite and promptly disappeared. The next post of chaoser that tipped me off further was this: On November 04 2011 05:36 chaoser wrote: Says my team is scummy, doesn't vote for us. ??? This post suggested to me that chaoser didn't have a vested interest in reading the thread. He seemed to only be interested in who was suspicious of his team. Indeed, his first suspicions were of prpl, and it certainly seemed like it was in reaction to prpl pressuring chaoser on the plan/hyshes business. For someone who kept getting outraged over people using "shitty logic," I found it extremely weird that chaoser wasn't reading the thread properly, so as to completely miss my vote on his team. How can a person who is concerned with proper logic employ said logic without a proper foundation of information that is gathered through actually reading the thread? On November 04 2011 06:31 chaoser wrote: Also, I'm not even panicking. Only 2 votes and 24+ hours left in the day? I didn't even know you voted for me so that'd be 1 vote and 24+ hours left in the day when I posted my previous stuff. Defense does not equal panic. Once again missing the point. At this point, chaoser has done enough things that seem strange that I begin to think that he isn't just "missing" the point, he's doing it intentionally and he's twisting things as he finds them convenient. I never equated his defense of himself to him panicking. I said it seemed like he was panicking because he completely missed my vote on him, instead very aggressively showing suspicions of anyone who suspected him (myself and prpl, really) This post: On November 05 2011 00:44 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + What are your reads Chaoser, who is scum, who is town, who should we lynch today. My teammate should be posting our read sometime soon. Like I said before, I'd rather be on as an advisory role. Is far more important now than it was at the time chaoser posted it. At the time chaoser posted it, I expected to see more of hyshes in the thread. I expected to see him post some sort of analysis on team viking and for him to step up activity in the thread, with chaoser probably tuning his activity down. Clearly that's not what we have seen; indeed, it has been the complete opposite. Hyshes has just completely disappeared, while chaoser has tripled his activity. Rather strange for someone who is simply supposed to be in an advisory capacity. On November 05 2011 02:49 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On November 05 2011 02:25 kitaman27 wrote: Scum absolutely hate to move their vote around multiple times a day. They want to find a lynch to jump on and stick with it. Is that your entire case? While I will concede the point that mafia generally don't like to move their vote around multiple times a day, I don't concede the point that they don't do it. I've played in multiple games where mafia, especially newer players, have done that on the misconception that they will "blend in" with the rest of the players if they're part of a majority vote. The logic of using "I was wrong in the lynch but so was everyone else that voted for them" as an argument when a player flips town is something that DOES happen. But that's not the main point of the prp/forumite suspicions. Show nested quote + Go read over prp/forumite's posts as a good starting point. What has forumite been contributing to the thread? quote: Not agreeing with you here, I don´t think your way will work on those two. (Disagree with GM's plan to let the votes pile up on us) and then at the end: Let´s bring Team Edward into the sunshine, and see if they Burn and/or Sparkle! (This is basically saying lets do that!) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=14#264 He posts a bullshit "analysis" of kurumi's team, bold their team red, never votes for them. Prphlz has since fallen off the face of the thread since accusing us of being mafia, going for easy "lurker" lynch of S and S and then later of Kurumi and RoL. He then posts this which puts the responsibility of scumhunting on others instead of doing it himself. quote: I like GMarshal's post. I'm leaving in an hour or so, maybe kitaman27 or redFF can conjure up something before that. Forumite even posts this: Sure, you can pick this lynch, I´ll pick the next one which shows that only does he NOT care about his previous case against us but that he's ok with lynching whomever. They went after exclusively lurker teams or "easy targets" as I like to call them. They also showed a disregard to what their actual suspicions were, being very cavalier with their vote as well as their own reasoning/cases. Multiple times they posted a case and then were completely fine when their teammate wrote a case about someone else and then voted for that someone else without question. Finally, they decided to rest their vote on a team that they themselves didn't even push for (red21), citing GM's argument as "good" as the only reason for voting for them. It's the "I don't give a damn who gets lynched" attitude that's suspicious to me. This post was strange to me simply because chaoser was introducing reasons for prpl/Forumite being scum that weren't present in the actual vote that hyshes posted. He said earlier that hyshes was coming along with the reasoning for voting prpl/forumite. Hyshes posted the vote by simply quoting the three voteposts of prpl and Forumite, saying that they were scum because they were voting a lot (wtf?) Again, for someone like chaoser who is so concerned with shitty logic, the logic couldn't get shittier. How does "voting a lot" make someone scum? Finally, the hypocrisy of the red and bolded part is astonishing. Chaoser claimed that the actual, main reason for voting prpl/forumite was that they were exclusively going after lurker teams or "easy targets." In the same vein, chaoser's team was pursuing one of the easiest targets of all. This was only proved by how easily prpl and forumite got bandwagoned and lynched. Pretty much every vote for them was completely baseless and stupid. On November 05 2011 02:58 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + They went after exclusively lurker teams or "easy targets" as I like to call them. To expand on this point, in a small game like this, especially since it's so active, I very much doubt that mafia will be lurking or even inactive. Those are tactics that mafia teams of 6 use for late game survival when it's Day 8 and there's a sea of lurking/inactive players for town to work through. So for forumite and prp go for those easy lynches of lurkers (their cases against SS and Nipple mainly talk about how they're not contributing much and thus they're scum) and don't actually write any real cases against active people. Notice how prp immediately stopped going after my team. And when they finally do vote for an active team, they says "we're going to sleep/can't post anymore today, we vote for them cause we agree with GM" which not only is an example of them trying to sheep a vote but it's also an example of them having to no longer defend their vote since they're off "sleeping"/"Not being here" This is the last post I'll mention for now, since I've covered everything else already in both my previous posts and this one. In this post, chaoser says that, since it's so active, he "very much doubts" that mafia will be lurking. This indirectly pushed suspicion off teams like team nipple, team SS, team Switzerland, and to some extent, team S&G, none of whom at the time had been very active at the time. We now know team Switzerland was town, and teams nipple, SS, and S&G have still not been very active. Townies should not be excluding possibilities so easily. We cannot simply make ill-reasoned generalizations (again, chaoser, here's your own shitty logic) and ignore activity patterns that could net us scum. Indeed, this post seemed to come across with an agenda, since usually only scum will be interested in letting lurkers slide. Conclusions I might be heavily biased, and I accept that, but upon reevaluation I still think chaoser's team is the best lynch today. There is still the possibility that chaoser is town, and in that case it would obviously would be incredibly detrimental to waste more time arguing and potentially risk destroying the thread and letting mafia simply choose one of us to lynch. So, as I went back and reread again I became rather suspicious of both team nipple and team SS as well, and I think they would make good alternates. Nipple has literally done nothing while sandro has been rather difficult to read. Decon has not done much of anything either. Sandro has said some things I agree with, but also some things I don't. This is rather weird, as I usually agree with almost everything sandro says (when he is town). He also seems to lack in activity. This isn't a huge tell, particularly as his activity was almost nonexistent in SMG, but it certainly is weird because he is definitely here; he has posted several times. I am in agreement with him, for example, that team nipple would make a good lynch today. I didn't really like his no-lynch plan yesterday, and I didn't like some of the other things he said yesterday, either. In this situation we just need to obtain more information on these teams. I want everyone to post their opinions and their top two lynches for today. If we can agree on at least two choices then that would be some good progress for the day. GM what are your thoughts? Hey everyone! I just wanted to re-post this case, because it seems like everyone has forgotten about chaoser and is worrying about sandroba/wbg instead! The reason I bring this up is because this feels exacly like my case on wiggles in Cosmic Horror mafia, where I decided to "stop arguing about it" and suddenly and mysteriously the case disappeared into the ether, ignored by everyone, because it was convenient for the mafia. | ||
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On November 07 2011 22:21 Palmar wrote: With 7 teams alive it takes 4 votes to achieve a lynch. The deadline is 22:00 GMT (+00:00) tonight, or about 10 hours from this post. Any teams not voting by the deadline will be modkilled, with 2 people per team there is no excuse for missing a vote. What happens if a majority is reached before a team has a chance to vote? This being majority lynch the day would immediately end with them having not voted, in that case, would they be modkilled? | ||
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On November 07 2011 22:41 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2011 22:14 GMarshal wrote: As to everyone who is using "if I were scum, I would have killed team Chezinu", I suggest you read up on the term, WIFOM. Seriously, you guys want team chezinu lynched? Provide a case, because right now, I'm seeing "wbg is active and rad is a good player, they are alive, ergo, scum!" Show nested quote + On November 06 2011 07:16 GMarshal wrote: Radfield isn't dead? He must be mafia then! Show nested quote + On November 05 2011 00:49 GMarshal wrote: No, you made a veiled accusation calling me scum and didn't push on it. You weren't saying "gm, be nice" or anything like that, you were implying that I was scum. Without going out and saying it. That's also not town behavior, if you thought my meta indicated I wouldn't do that as town, you should have elaborated, if you wanted me to back off, you should have said it. Instead you go with a veiled accusation. That's called seeding suspicion. My new goal is to make a case against GMarshal by only using pieces of his analysis against myself. Ah, yes, the difference between a joke and am actual accusation. I *always* call rad scum when he is alive day 2, its hilarious. Call it casting suspicion if you want, maybe I should have included a :-P to make it more clear. On November 07 2011 22:42 supersoft wrote: @GM go through the last pages of the thread. »grey and I havent been doing much?« i bet you read my post where i mention you as my #3 lynchcandidate. i expect some more omgus towards us to be incoming... I saw it, what I haven't been seeing you actually pushing your ideas very hard. You sort of post them and then waft off, which is why I am asking for your opinions. Also you are obviously scum for saying you want to lynch me!! :-P (there is your OMGUS, happy?) | ||
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On November 08 2011 01:07 GreYMisT wrote: I have some brief time before I have to go to classes this morning, but basically, because I dont believe in using WIFOM as a basis for an argument, I dont think that WBG/Radfield are scum atm. I had a dream last night that you fell into a volcano to prove your townieness, but then died and flipped scum theif, but again I'm not sure if thats basis for real analysis. As I stated a bit ago, i'm willing to vote for SS or Nipple. Nipple might not be the best idea anymore, so when supersoft arrives, We might switch over to SS. Gm, you said you dont think a good reason to call wbg and radfield scum is that they are still alive. Do you have any thoughts regarding them? I think wbg is very active and rads scum play isn't lurk and be inactive, as is evidenced by LotR, wbg is all over the place, but this fits his town meta pretty well, I'm leaning town heavily on them right now | ||
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On November 08 2011 01:29 kitaman27 wrote: For being a team who has been a main lynch candidate on day one and day two, votes sure have been having real trouble sticking to Team Edward. Kurumi if you could post your opinion on SS and Edward then we might be willing to save you for day three, but it needs to be soon if possible. GM, you based your lynch on me on the fact that I was defending townies on day one, which is exactly what you are doing now. You still haven't provided a strong opinion on scum suspects since the case on Red and I. Could you share who you are voting for before seeing who Team Red21 and Team S&G CONSULTING truely seek to lynch? I have no fucking idea who to kill right now, as I said I *really* don't want team nipple with me on day 3/lylo, but I'd hate to lynch town again, the thing is, we have no way figuring out their alignment from their actions so far. *sigh*, kita my case was built on you not playing to your usual meta, and ascribing the differences to scum motives, not for any "tells" like defending townies. I said "publishing town lists is bad" not "defending townies is bad" two very different things, one is pro town, the other one looks like a contribution without actually contributing. As to who I want to lynch, I'm not sure, I haven't had the time I wanted to go back and read into people. I thought day 1 that SS was town, but their complete lack of contribution and the fact that sandroba is being stupid (in my opinion) and getting super aggravated has made me rethink that. I might be ok with lynching them. If not, team Edward is ok as a lynch, since they just narrowly avoided it day 1, and as I said, I feel like chaoser's defensiveness and general annoyed attitude are the kind of play he might do while emulating Ace. But then he voted for SS, and I don't know what to make of that. I'm ok with either edward or SS, but I'm feeling kind of sick, so I'm not exactly thinking straight either -__- I'll try to settle on one or the other in the next few hours, but I'd love to hear any arguments towards one or the other. | ||
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On November 08 2011 01:53 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 05 2011 00:49 GMarshal wrote: You know better than this. You never, ever post "I think this guy is town" or even imply it, as that makes them targets Show nested quote + On November 08 2011 01:12 GMarshal wrote: I'm leaning town heavily on them right now Show nested quote + On November 06 2011 12:42 GMarshal wrote: I had more of a town feeling on viking than on you Show nested quote + On November 04 2011 20:31 GMarshal wrote: First of all let me get on paper that I don't think sandroba is scum Show nested quote + On November 08 2011 01:41 GMarshal wrote: I'll try to settle on one or the other in the next few hours, but I'd love to hear any arguments towards one or the other. How does 2:00pm EST sound? I'm still at work then. I'll get back when I get back. Sorry that I can't give you a specific time. Yes, I did have a town feel for SS day 1, I stated that. I've since revised my opinion. You know, as the game evolves we reassess our assumptions, its how we catch scum. It would be silly to decide someone is town day 1 and refuse to consider any further evidence. Anyway, there is a difference between calling someone town for the sake of calling them town (what you were doing) and calling someone town when someone asks you if you think they are scum. I know I said sandroba was town day one, but then I went back and read the thread again. What most makes me suspicious of sandroba is his pissed off attitude, townroba doesn't get that pissed off, his rant against wbg in particular, which boils down to a paragraph of him calling bug stupid is what made me reconsider the whole deal. What makes me suspicious of the chaoser case is how it seems to keep getting shunted aside, when I think there are valid points there. If I had to commit right now, I think I would take SS over Edward. | ||
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Now, I have a post-weekend report I need to write for my boss, so I'm going to be away for at least two hours. I will try to be back before the lynch, but no guarantees. I'm leaving my vote on SS, if crofty shows up he is free to move it around, as I trust his judgment. This puts SS at L-1 so please, for the love of god, no one hammer until the deadline is really close, I think kita has a case he wants to present or something, so wait until you hear that. ##Vote: Team SS | ||
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I suppose its too much to ask that crofty carry the team for the next 24 hours? Probably, oh well Claiming medic now, protecting kita tonight. Kita, if your check from n1 isn't dead, check me, otherwise check someone you think is likely to be scum. This is probably a terrible decision I will regret in the morning, but hell I'm literally hallucinating with fever! I slipped it a little earlier here when attacking kurumi's plan. Specifically: On November 04 2011 02:43 GMarshal wrote: Its perfectly possible that we don't, like say maybe we have a medic and that's it. Now I'm going to collapse back into a feverish delirium, but if kitas check goes through, worst case we have 2 confirmed town, which means that even by rng there is a 66% chance of hitting scum. GL HF GG, I'll try to post my thoughts in more detail before I get shot. | ||
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On November 09 2011 01:22 chaoser wrote: Also Gm fucked up his claim, it's DOCTOR, not MEDIC Sure thing scum. Its easy, whichever of us is alive in the morning is mafia. My question to you is why would you counter claim now, at night, rather than wait to see if I'm alive in the morning? Ooops ^_^ | ||
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On November 09 2011 01:26 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On November 09 2011 01:22 kitaman27 wrote: psst chaoser you're not supposed to counter claim until tomorrow Got antsy with the trigger finger. And my breadcrumbs, unless you're saying in the few minutes between GM's claim and my claim that I was somehow able to find and make up four different breadcrumbs based on three different TV shows involving doctors (E.R, scrubs, Doogie Howser), I'm the real doctor and he's the fake. He even messed up his claim, claiming medic when it's doctor. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies, Parity Cop, Doctor. Fever, I didn't even confirm it with my role PM. Now why would you ever counterclaim NOW if town? Clearly you are scum. Also why would I claim medic as scum, NOW? so that people lynch me when I'm not dead in the morning? Especially with bugs giving me such a nice way out with his post about how the medic shouldn't claim? My claim makes sense, your counter claim makes none. | ||
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