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Warning - Wall of text on JeeJee.
On August 25 2011 01:49 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 21:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote: While I still think Ferryman is the horror from my arguement on the bottom of the last page, it makes more sense to go mafia hunting instead, so: NO IT DOESNT. the most optimal play for town is to lynch EA day one. second most optimal is to lynch scum. this screams distancing himself from ferryman / setup for a future scenario.
If anyone needs more evidence that JeeJee is scum, here it is. He's discouraging mafia hunting and simultaneously puts on a show of mafia hunting. Since EA is a standalone third party role (doesn't know any other role/alignments, no other role alignments know EA) the only way that Cyber could be distancing himself from Ferryman is if they are mafia together. Just one sentence before he discourages people trying to find mafia, saying that apparently it's better to find the EA.
And now a summary of his interactions with players. Quotes are in spoilers so this post is actually readable.
Slight attack of sevryn for a pro-EA plan.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 24 2011 05:28 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 03:21 Sevryn wrote: What if we just have everyone claim they checked someone everyday so that way the psych doesn't have to claim but when he dies we can go back and see who he has checked. i dont like this. this is only helpful if psych visits EA first, and we don't know if that happens. i.e. if psych claimed "im gonna visit A" and commits suicide because EA visited him, everyone would think that A is EA, wasting a lynch. plus obviously doc has to lie about his target so it doesn't help to narrow down EA in the case of insane doc kills, and this helps EA since he never visits anyone who claims to visit him (possible 2x insane in one night), plus EA will know that the person who claimed to visit him isn't a psych, narrowing down his search twice as fast. this is an awfully pro-EA plan -.^
Post #1- Attacking Cyber_Cheese for pushing a plan that has already been explained (by JeeJee) to be pro-EA. Pushes pretty hard against this guy but doesn't vote him.
Post #2- Quizzing Cyber_Cheese a bit, but not attacking him anymore. Just requesting more information. Points out Errandor's inactive playstyle.
Post #3- Pushes Cyber even harder, even to the point of voting for him. No new information came up between his earlier posts and this one. The only difference is that other players were starting to pick up steam on Cyber, voting for him and accusing him. This means it was safe for a mafia to hop on the bandwagon he started.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 25 2011 01:49 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 21:13 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The town has no way of knowing for sure who is the mafia nor the eldritch horror. It starts 9v3v1, assuming the mafia manage to hit town it's only ever going to go downhill unless we lynch and get lucky and/or someones percieved slip up is actually that. I'm thinking the plan to mention who we visited (even if we didn't) is better than nothing because *if* the psych happens to die there is a remote chance he did actually visit the horror That said, I'm going to kick things off and say I'm going to visit Erandorr, I advise everybody to choose someone and do the same.
I never actually believed Palmar was anti-town, but there was an arguement against him and I didn't want to not lynch, so ##Unvote
Now, having read up to this point, one person seems to be pushing the identity of the horror rather too strongly, don't you think? I'm thinking he's panicked from getting the third party role and tried to pin the blame on someone else from the get-go ##Vote: TheFerryman
Note how Ferryman used examples of wiggles from other games, despite this being his first? I think he was likely looking at other games to see how a third party faction should be played, and just happened to come up with some 'evidence' that wiggles could be used as a scapegoat.
Also I don't really think meta-arguements should be used, keep it within what's been said this game. wtf@this post i already pointed out why the plan of everyone claiming a target is extremely pro-EA and pro-scum and doesnt help the town AT ALL. the fact that you're still suggesting it is mindboggling. it's a particularly dangerous plan because it actually sounds good before you think about it. i wanted to go back and see if there's a case to be made against you, but tnkted already pointed out the bandwagon hopping. i wanna add this though which i think is more damning than hopping: Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 21:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote: While I still think Ferryman is the horror from my arguement on the bottom of the last page, it makes more sense to go mafia hunting instead, so: NO IT DOESNT. the most optimal play for town is to lynch EA day one. second most optimal is to lynch scum. this screams distancing himself from ferryman / setup for a future scenario. On August 25 2011 05:41 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 03:46 Cyber_Cheese wrote: at the moment, i'm believing wiggles is the horror
why? Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 04:32 Erandorr wrote: Okay IM back and catching up now. I will post as soon as I have a clear opinion an hour later... On August 25 2011 06:54 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 06:33 Cyber_Cheese wrote: this raises a question Can visiting roles choose to do nothing? If so, the ideas good and psych sits at home this raises a better question why do you keep bringing up this idea of coordinating a psych decision? *everyone votes for psych to visit A* *psych has committed suicide* "Ah, A must be EA!" *Lynch A* *A is not EA because EA visited psych and not vice versa* Now what? you're here quite often, you make a lot of posts. but all i'm seeing is that you want to kill someone, and you don't care who as long as it's not yourself. i'm seeing useless lists and pushing flawed plans. i'm seeing nonsense. ##vote:cyber cheese
He attacks Cyber more in his next post or two, until Cyber reworks his plan. Remember that JeeJee's only explanation for voting Cyber was based on the scumminess of the earlier plans. Note the lack of an unvote here, and that he still tunnels Cyber, asking for more of his thoughts.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 26 2011 06:49 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 02:10 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Alright I hate to bring this up yet again, but I believe I've taken all the cons out of it in it's current implementation, and as such I fear it's been dismissed too soon + Show Spoiler [Breadcrumbing Revisited] + The doc does not breadcrumb, straightforward.
The previous version was the rest of town feign visiting and psych tells the truth because the psych is our best lead on finding the horror The forseen problem with that was that the EH would know who 'visited' them and if they didn't die, would know they were not worth a visit
So what if town agreed to which person the psych visits anonymously? e.g. town agrees that psych should visit (I don't know, me?) and if the psych turns up dead we can assume hes (I'm in this case) the EH I'm saying town should agree on who the psych should visit and no-one should breadcrumb themselves essentially turning psych into a group role to avoid the being singled out as did/did not visit
psych dying could correlate to a) psych visited horror, b) horror visited psych or c) mafia attacked psych if psyche is sane when he dies, we can rule out c, but c could happen the same night as a or b if we don't know who the psych visits, we don't get any information on who EH might be, if we do, it's a 50/50 Bear in mind that if we can't prepare a strong argument for the person being the EH, we can still leave it at that and not lynch, and if we vote for the psych he can just not visit that night
Thoughts? Opinions? on the caveat that you don't auto-lynch anyone if psych ends up suiciding, then it's workable to try and find out who is the EA. we could use the psych as an EA-cop. i'm in for this. but you've been posting a lot about plans and not a lot about people, so what do you think about sevryn and palmar's unvote?
Next bit is not spoilered because these posts really need to be read.
This is where things get really interesting. Previous to this he has ignored almost everything else that's going on to focus on Cyber. He completely ignored the Wiggles/Ferryman situation, the chaos/tnkted sitiuation, and Palmar's craziness. Something about this set him off, however.
On August 26 2011 08:16 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote: Cyber cheese is on the right track. Kind of. Psych visit Mr. Wiggles. If Psych dies we lynch Wiggles. Now let's continue hunting scum. If tnkted is scum so is Palmar and Sevryn. Lynch tnkted. how is sevryn remotely related to tnkted?
On August 26 2011 08:31 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 08:27 Jackal58 wrote:I'll buy that Ferryman. Makes more sense to me than the EH push. On August 26 2011 08:16 JeeJee wrote:On August 26 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote: Cyber cheese is on the right track. Kind of. Psych visit Mr. Wiggles. If Psych dies we lynch Wiggles. Now let's continue hunting scum. If tnkted is scum so is Palmar and Sevryn. Lynch tnkted. how is sevryn remotely related to tnkted? Subtle disconnects. + Show Spoiler +On August 25 2011 02:08 Sevryn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 01:40 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I believe it's in towns best interests to randomly lynch from the get-go, as I've stated a few times in now, so I've been following bandwagons to try and put a lynch through If I happen to be lynched because of it, so be it, at least towns not wasting a chance to lynch its in scums best interest for town to randomly lynch and ignore scum slips while i was reading the thread i was going to do a write up on CyberCheese however tnkted beat me to it this guy self admitted to jumping on bandwagons. he plays the IDC if i get lynched card this guy is scum. ##vote Cyber_Cheese not sure if serious.. all that post shows is sevryn going "I was going to make a case against CC but tnkted did it already" i did pretty much the same thing, am I related now too?
Something about Jackal touching on the subject of sevryn/tnkted makes JeeJee feel the need to jump to their defense. sevryn's defense specifically. Note that he said "How is sevryn remotely related to tnkted?", not "How is tnkted related to sevryn?"
My questions at this point 1) Why is it a bad thing for sevryn to be related to tnkted? 2) Why does JeeJee feel the need to defend sevryn from Jackal?
Question 2 has a simple answer. Question 1 is a little more confusing.
JeeJee has had some interactions with sevryn, but nothing telling. The only thing notable about them is that he's very sparing in interacting with people. It was just Cyber until Jackal came in with this, and one post exchanged with sevryn at the very beginning of the game.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 26 2011 09:45 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 09:35 Sevryn wrote:On August 26 2011 08:00 Jackal58 wrote: Cyber cheese is on the right track. Kind of. Psych visit Mr. Wiggles. If Psych dies we lynch Wiggles. Now let's continue hunting scum. If tnkted is scum so is Palmar and Sevryn. Lynch tnkted. Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope. Psych visit who you want to visit but if we tell the psych to visit Wiggles for one Wiggles is someone who has a higher chance than normal to be the EA IMO and by telling the Psych who to visit each day the EA visits someone else and his job of find the psych goes twice as fast making his win condition easier to fulfill. yeah no, this doesn't apply to this variation at all. ea cannot assume that the person we tell the psych to visit isn't the psych. this variation is workable, provided we don't auto-lynch anyone just because psych suicides. On August 26 2011 10:27 JeeJee wrote:who would you like psych to visit? same question @ eii
This next one is more interacting with sevryn, and is also the post he claimed mafia in. It's content has been ignored so far because we've all been focused on the crumb. Take a second look at it.
On August 27 2011 03:33 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 10:42 Sevryn wrote:On August 26 2011 10:27 JeeJee wrote:On August 26 2011 10:20 Sevryn wrote:On August 26 2011 09:45 JeeJee wrote: yeah no, this doesn't apply to this variation at all. ea cannot assume that the person we tell the psych to visit isn't the psych. this variation is workable, provided we don't auto-lynch anyone just because psych suicides.
okay that actually makes sense who would you like psych to visit? same question @ eii me that way I know he doesn't die first night and he knows I'm not the horror indeed, this is an interesting point. making sure that the scenario where ea/psych visit one another is accounted for properly is all we've focused on, but the most likely thing to happen is that neither will visit another. someone's basically not-EA if that happens checking palmar is the best idea i think. under the assumption that psych decides to follow the plan (i dont see why he wouldnt), i'd be hella more comfortable knowing palmar's not the EA. my other suggestion is wiggles. Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 00:26 Curu wrote: It's Eldritch Abomination not Eldritch Horror!!!!! ugh, you read my mind. my god, where did the 'horror' come from. and like everyone's saying it too. damn shit annoys me :< ##visit palmar
What stands out to you? Who died last night?
Here he throws out some information and suspicions that he hasn't come close to mentioning before. Apparently Palmar is the EA, for reasons he fails to explain, and Wiggles his second option, again with a failure to explain. But if they killed him last night, why would he want the psych to check Palmar? The options I can see are 1) Mafia want to take out the EA so they aren't targeted, and gain town cred. JeeJee/scum team thinks Palmar is EA. 2) Mafia want town to derp and keep EA alive, JeeJee/scum team thinks Palmar is not EA.
Maybe someone with a more devious mind can work this one out. Maybe it's just wifom. I've pointed it out and can't quite figure it out.
It's after this that Jackal points out the crumb and JeeJee goes into "Oh shit that was stupid" mode.
I would like to go back to the two questions I had about sevryn, tnkted, and JeeJee. For reference those were
1) Why is it a bad thing for sevryn to be related to tnkted? 2) Why does JeeJee feel the need to defend sevryn from Jackal?
The simple answer to question 2 is -
*drumroll*
sevryn is JeeJee's scumbuddy.
So back to 1) Why is it a bad thing for sevryn to be related to tnkted?
Well we have to remember, tnkt was getting a lot of suspicion yesterday, and a lot of votes. It seemed likely that he would be lynched. The only sort of lynch it would be bad to be connected to is a red one. A mafia will never want to be connected to another mafia lynch, except to push it as hard as they can.
My guess at mafia team right now. JeeJee sevryn tnkted
Of these three, my thoughts have changed since yesterday and I am least sure of tnkted. I also have to examine sevryn's posts more thoroughly, but there is a clear connection between him and JeeJee.
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On August 28 2011 23:03 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 20:36 Forumite wrote: I disagree with Cyber about both Ferryman and Tnkted.
Tnkted pushed on Palmar in response to one weird post by him, it didn´t really have any weight behind it. Sigh. Why does nobody read? My FOS on palmar started as a joke from his initial comment in the thread, but his RESPONSE to the pressure I applied is what made me think he was scum. Go reread the thread, bro.
So if it was only the response, why were you still using his "slip" as evidence? You clearly stated that one of the things that made you suspicious of him was his slip. The proof is in your posts and your refusal to address this point doesn't give me a good feeling about you.
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On August 28 2011 23:15 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 23:08 chaos13 wrote:On August 28 2011 23:03 tnkted wrote:On August 28 2011 20:36 Forumite wrote: I disagree with Cyber about both Ferryman and Tnkted.
Tnkted pushed on Palmar in response to one weird post by him, it didn´t really have any weight behind it. Sigh. Why does nobody read? My FOS on palmar started as a joke from his initial comment in the thread, but his RESPONSE to the pressure I applied is what made me think he was scum. Go reread the thread, bro. So if it was only the response, why were you still using his "slip" as evidence? You clearly stated that one of the things that made you suspicious of him was his slip. The proof is in your posts and your refusal to address this point doesn't give me a good feeling about you. Do you think if you keep asserting that I'm using the slip as evidence it becomes true? This isn't the first time that you've said that, and I pointed out then too that it wasn't true. This was the last time I said that the slip was evidence, and it was virtually my first post of any substance in the thread. The VERY NEXT POST by me is where I explain the 'response' theory.
I don't care when you said it, I care that you said it at all. If you didn't think it was a genuine slip, why did you ever use it as evidence? In your VERY NEXT POST you also don't state that the slip is not valid evidence. You simply omit it from that post.
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Maybe this is just a misunderstanding between us. For now I'm content with this
On August 28 2011 23:27 tnkted wrote: BTW this is a stupid conversation and isn't finding us scum, we should change the topic
And just for the record, you aren't too high up on my lynch list. As for some discussion, what do you think the chances are of Jackal being the EA and why?
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That question applies to everyone. Go back through his posts and see if you can figure it out. I'm 90% sure he is the EA. If nobody has figured out why by the time I get home today I'll tell you how. He needs to be lynched tomorrow.
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On August 29 2011 01:20 Sevryn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 23:36 chaos13 wrote:Maybe this is just a misunderstanding between us. For now I'm content with this On August 28 2011 23:27 tnkted wrote: BTW this is a stupid conversation and isn't finding us scum, we should change the topic And just for the record, you aren't too high up on my lynch list. As for some discussion, what do you think the chances are of Jackal being the EA and why? The F? Didn't you just make a giant post saying that tnkted is one of the scum? and then you say he isnt high up on your lynch list? what an excellent contradiction you have made there sir
JeeJee, sevryn, and Jackal are all higher.
My lynch order of choice would be JeeJee, Jackal, sevryn, tnkted.
Why Jackal? Can anyone tell me which role in the game would want to spend 3 hours looking for breadcrumbs?
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On August 29 2011 13:06 tnkted wrote: I don't think it makes sense for jackal to bus his teamate this early... Unless you're suggesting he's EA, which I suppose is possible. I think jeejee > sevryn is our best bet right now.
Yes, Jackal is EA. I'm sure of it.
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On August 29 2011 21:33 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 20:40 chaos13 wrote:On August 29 2011 13:06 tnkted wrote: I don't think it makes sense for jackal to bus his teamate this early... Unless you're suggesting he's EA, which I suppose is possible. I think jeejee > sevryn is our best bet right now. Yes, Jackal is EA. I'm sure of it. Really? And what brings you to that conclusion? My belief that scum are more dangerous to us than the EA at this stage of the game? I suggest you look at the two people with the least amount of posts in this game. One of them is the EA.
No, it's that you spent 3 hours looking for breadcrumbs. I know you've given an explanation already, but I'm not buying it. I can see taking 3 hours looking back through the thread and trying to analyze while you wait for him to call, but why were you looking for breadcrumbs? Let's go through each role and see what motivation they would have for that.
Townie - No logical reason. Maybe they're looking for psych/doctor, but what will they do with that information? They have no way to figure out if it is a lie or not, since anyone can breadcrumb anything when the role PM's are in the OP.
Doctor - Looking for psych so they can protect them. Unfortunately, this possibility is ruled out since Palmar already flipped doc.
Psychologist - Same as Townie. EA sure as hell isn't going to breadcrumb their role, and players don't know if they're sane or not so they can't crumb whether or not they've been visited. No point in it.
Mafia - Looking for doc or (maybe) psychologist to take them out early on.
EA - After there had been a plan or two pushed for that included the psychologist breadcrumbing their role, this makes perfect sense. Maybe the psych is an inexperienced player who did it before understanding how the plan was detrimental, or maybe they're an experienced player who did the same. EA wants to remove the only barrier to their win condition as soon as possible. Visit the psych, and you've reduced the number of sane players by 1 and also prevented future obstacles. The psych is the only one likely to have breadcrumbed (except mafia :p ) and now that the doc is dead the EA is the only one likely to be looking for it.
So the only two roles that it actually seems reasonable to spend so much time searching for crumbs are anti-town. Even in games as mafia when I was searching for crumbs to find blue roles I never spent that much time, and in this setup there are no hugely anti-mafia power roles. As far as mafia is concerned, the psych helps them if they are visited by EA. This is the only logical conclusion. Jackal found JeeJee's post, and figured he could gain some town cred by pointing it out.
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On August 30 2011 02:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Psychologist visit Jackal.
If Jackal is the Psychologist, visit Chaos13.
I would suggest the Psychologist don't visit Jackal, precisely because he is the EA. I'm going to vote Jackal tomorrow and be pushing for his lynch, so what is the point in causing our psych to kill himself by visiting Jackal?
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On August 30 2011 07:29 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2011 07:10 chaos13 wrote:On August 30 2011 02:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Psychologist visit Jackal.
If Jackal is the Psychologist, visit Chaos13. I would suggest the Psychologist don't visit Jackal, precisely because he is the EA. I'm going to vote Jackal tomorrow and be pushing for his lynch, so what is the point in causing our psych to kill himself by visiting Jackal? Right... ##Visit Jackal58
Explain to me how our psych visiting him is good. It doesn't kill the EA, it doesn't remove him from the game, it doesn't take away his power, and we have no way of knowing for sure if the psych actually visited who everyone voted for. It gets us a dead townie. Instead, they should visit who they think was most likely targeted last night.
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Your entire post against me is based on semantics, so there's nothing I can really say to defend myself against it. One big thing you seemed to have missed though, is that my post on JeeJee was not to provide extra evidence for him being scum. It's to find his other mafia buddies. You'll notice that it's just an aside at the very beginning that shows how JJ is mafia. Everything else is about his relations to other players. If I'm wrong about how mafia communicate with each other, so be it. I'll learn from this game later.
I'm town Mr. Ferryman.
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On August 31 2011 00:02 Forumite wrote: This is why we post analysis at the end of the night, to avoid becoming a target for the Scum, and creating WIFOM.
Disregarding the nightkill for a while, I think Chaos13 is scummy for his craplogical push on Jackal, reasoning in my analysis post above.
Explain to me what about my argument for him being EA is wrong or illogical, and give me a better idea of who it could be. I'm always open to discussion.
With that in mind, you guys think I'm scummy. So pressure me. I'll answer to the best of my ability and if you still feel I'm anti-town after that, then I can relax knowing that at least I provided a bunch of information before being lynched and that I played the game as well as I can.
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On August 31 2011 01:33 Jackal58 wrote: If I were EA Chaos The Ferryman would not have been sane. I considered him to be high on the list of probable Psychs. Were I EA he would have been my night one visit. If I were scum Chaos you would be dead today and not the Ferryman. So unless you are either A) The EA or B) Scum please kindly start looking for realsies instead of insisting I am something I'm not. Of course if you are either scum or EA please continue to tunnel me.
This is total wifom here. It would be so easy for you to say this from an EA or mafia perspective, so it doesn't go any length to convincing me you're town. With that said, I seem to be the only one suspicious of you, so pursuing you will do no good for today.
On August 31 2011 01:38 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
##Vote Chaos13
You're doing an excellent job of voting for me with no explanation and completely ignoring my request to pressure me if you think I'm suspicious. If you want to vote for me, don't leave the information where it's at. Ask me questions and see if my responses are still scummy. Point out the mafia/EA objectives I have been pushing this game. If at the end of the day I'm still your #1 suspect, so be it. Don't do a one-liner vote.
On August 31 2011 03:19 tnkted wrote: I'm not sold on a chaos lynch yet... he seems more like, dumb than someone posting scum objectives. Jackal clearly isn't EA or we'd have lost our psychologist.
Did we all abandon the wiggles lynch?
Thanks :p
I'm doing my best here.
I'd like to find out from everyone why they think Jackal isn't the EA, because from my perspective he is the most likely candidate for it right now. Maybe some outside opinions will help me figure things out.
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On August 31 2011 03:30 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 03:25 chaos13 wrote:On August 31 2011 01:38 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
##Vote Chaos13
You're doing an excellent job of voting for me with no explanation and completely ignoring my request to pressure me if you think I'm suspicious. If you want to vote for me, don't leave the information where it's at. Ask me questions and see if my responses are still scummy. Point out the mafia/EA objectives I have been pushing this game. If at the end of the day I'm still your #1 suspect, so be it. Don't do a one-liner vote. Take a second look at who I quoted
I saw that. I also saw zero explanation of why you think I'm anti-town.
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On August 31 2011 03:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Chaos, do you have any other analysis/reasoning to believe that Jackal is the EA besides that he found the breadcrumb? Can you relate his thread behaviour and posting in general to how he is the EA?
I'm wondering if you actually have anything stronger than just that he found the breadcrumb. Also, try to write it from an objective stand-point, and not one where you begin with the thought that he's already the EA.
Number of insane players: 1-3/10
Yes, I'll actually write a proper analysis later this afternoon that covers everything. I have to head out the door in a minute or two, so I don't have time to do it right now. # of insane players could actually be 0, if psych and EA visited the same person each night. EA's action goes through first, meaning the player is already insane once the pysch visits them, so they're cured of their insanity the same night it happens.
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On August 31 2011 08:21 Jackal58 wrote: I have no idea if the Psych visited me or not. It wouldn't matter if he did unless I'm insane. I am not the EA. I cannot visit anybody at night. I cannot harm the Psych if he does visit me. I wish people would quit assuming that the Psych visited me. We have no idea if he did. We certainly don't want him claiming until the EA is dead. So please stop assuming I was visited. That kind of thinking is going to get us in a pickle.
I support this post of Jackal's. We can vote on who the psych should visit all we want, but we have no way of knowing if they did or not. If I were psych, I would probably be picking my own target, since voting gives EA too much information, and I would rather visit someone insane than the EA. It's much better in the long run to have the pysch alive and lynch the EA based on analysis alone.
On August 31 2011 07:03 Forumite wrote: I like it how Erandorr come when you make a FoS on him =)
Chaos13, you haven´t seen/answered the FoS I sent on you, it went out just before the new day, and regards the same thing Cyber pointed out. Basically, it´s that you didn´t want to send the Psych on Jackal, who you think is the EA. You argued that it´s a waste to send the Psych to die, it might look that way, but it´s craplogic. If we get the EA because the Psych die finding him, then we can be much more sure on the lynch. Also, if we send the Psych and he doesn´t die, then we can be more or less sure that Jackal is not the EA. That´s the thing that looked bad, it looked like you wanted to make sure that Jackal was not cleared of EA-suspicion, so that you could lynch him today.
Anyway, I´m looking forward to that analysis on Jackal. I want to hear what made you so sure about Jackal that you thought a Psych verification was unnecessary.
I've pretty much addressed this above. If I think Jackal is the EA, why should I want the psych to go visit him and get killed? That defeats the point of the skipped night phase. I would much rather the psych visit someone insane and cure them, and keep the EA farther from their win condition than have the pysch go get themselves killed when we can't actually confirm that they visited the target everyone voted on.
Analysis on Jackal in progress. Will be up in an hour or two probably.
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General consensus seems to be that I'm wasting time. So be it. Jackal is no longer a suspect. I'll start looking elsewhere.
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Because they're waiting for my analysis of you. Sorry about the wait everyone, I was frustrated with this game last night and decided it would be best to clear my head and smarten up before attempting some analysis.
Let me preface this by saying I am no longer at all sure that Jackal is EA. There's evidence for it, but when the whole town starts questioning you there comes a point where you begin to wonder if you're sniffing down the wrong trail.
So here we go.
What needs to be determined first is what the goals of the EA will actually be. This is simple. 1) Visit the psychologist 2) Do some serious mafia hunting. You want town cred and you're not afraid of getting hit for being correct.
A lot of Jackal's posts are solid. He's really good at not giving anything away without making it obvious. I'll just go with the posts that stand out to me.
On August 25 2011 08:10 Jackal58 wrote: My apologies for my absence. It was a brutal day at work today. The fuckers broke everything.
I have only read this page and will get caught up shortly but I do have a question for the Ferryman. You state rightly so that we are here to lynch scum. Yet you are obsessed with the EH. Why? I understand he's 3rd party. I understand he's anti town. I also understand that he won't kill anybody barring a chance encounter with the psych. Scum are most certainly going to begin killing us. Fuck the EH for now. We have bigger fish to fry. Of course I might be all wrong as I have just read this page atm and if so I'll be more than happy to stfu after I get caught up. I'll post my thoughts in a bit. I also have to catch up on XLIX.
While this is a reasonable post, it has some strange motivations behind it. He would really like Ferryman to quit searching so hard for the EA, because apparently scum are more important. Let's see how that would work out. 3 scum, takes us 3 days to lynch. 3 kills by that point, 3 lynches, and possibility of psych dying due to EA.
That brings us down to
2 insane townies 3 sane townies 1 EA
Assuming we lynched mafia every day from day 1, this is a worst case scenario, with the EA visiting the psych and two townies who survived. This doesn't look too good to me.
Whereas if we lynch the EA, we skip a night phase and get 2 lynches in a row...looks good to me. Jackal isn't one to miss something like this. EA and mafia are equal priority, and his wanting to take out mafia over EA doesn't look too good.
On August 25 2011 08:46 Jackal58 wrote: If anybody ever accuses me of tunneling again I'm going to bitch slap them. Ferryman we get it. You think Wiggles is the EH. You may very well be right. Guess what? Right now I don't care about the EH. But you sure as hell do. You are either the psych or scum. I know you have a very good grasp on how this game works. You are also on the opposite end of the brilliance spectrum from Cyber_cheese. Put your efforts into something other than tunneling your EH suspect. Please. I'm filtering all of you from most to least interesting so I'm going to be a while.
Again, he's pushing Ferryman away from hunting the EA. Something I would really like to point out is this
On August 25 2011 08:46 Jackal58 wrote: You are either the psych or scum.
No possibility of him being the EA. What better cover would there be for an EA than hunting for their own role? Not for a moment does Jackal consider this possibility. In games I've played previously I've been about to hit submit and then realized I made a slip like this. I consider this to be a slip revealing that he's the EA.
On August 28 2011 20:58 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 12:37 Navillus wrote:On August 28 2011 10:41 Jackal58 wrote:On August 28 2011 10:06 Navillus wrote: Also the writing is weird and looks forced, but... Jackal how on earth did you notice that??? Because the writing was forced and weird. Ehhh, more specifics what made you look closely, what did you notice first, how did you see it? I spent almost 3 hours looking at every post in this game for breadcrumbs. I wasn't looking at anything of Jee Jee's in particular. I saw the U Mad first. And then found the rest. I found one other post that may contain a breadcrumb but I'm not positive it is. At any rate I am not going to share that post, or user, or what he may be claiming. Y'all can go find it yourselves.
I've already gone over this stuff, but I'll mention it briefly again.
3 hours looking for breadcrumbs? Jackal's hunting the psych, which you'll remember is priority #1 of the EA.
On August 31 2011 01:33 Jackal58 wrote: If I were EA Chaos The Ferryman would not have been sane. I considered him to be high on the list of probable Psychs. Were I EA he would have been my night one visit. If I were scum Chaos you would be dead today and not the Ferryman. So unless you are either A) The EA or B) Scum please kindly start looking for realsies instead of insisting I am something I'm not. Of course if you are either scum or EA please continue to tunnel me.
And then this.
Sorry for wasting so much time yesterday. Let the discussion begin.
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On August 31 2011 09:54 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 09:28 chaos13 wrote:General consensus seems to be that I'm wasting time. So be it. Jackal is no longer a suspect. I'll start looking elsewhere. Wait, what? So, you think Jackal is scum, most likely EA, but because other people don't agree (before you've even posted an actual analysis), you just drop it? The point of analysis is to convince people to agree with you, and show them your reasoning for your reads. Even if you made an analysis, and came to the conclusion that Jackal is actually town, that's still useful for town. Dropping your suspicion so easily because people don't initially agree with your read, and without even trying to convince them, just makes it seem like you thought your case was weak to begin with, meaning you were just looking to start a bandwagon on someone. ##Vote: Chaos13
I was frustrated yesterday. I've since gotten over it. If you really want to vote for me, tell me what mafia objectives I have been pushing this game. What does a mafioso have to gain by making such an outspoken accusation against Jackal, then backing off, and then continuing again? You can see from my games as scum that I like to lurk and lay low. Real analysis won't come from me for a few days, and then it will only be a result of becoming a major town suspect for not contributing. Show me how all my posts represent a mafia agenda. Pressure me today. Ask me questions and decide if my responses are still scummy. Address my analysis on Jackal and see what you think of it.
Cyber_Cheese, where are you? You voted for me and left. Not very town-like.
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On August 31 2011 23:25 Jackal58 wrote:
On the Ferryman I simply wanted him to stop tunneling. At the point I made that first post you quoted we were all well aware of what he thought of Wiggles and adding more of the same just gave us all another 20 paragraphs on "NO U" to read. That's it. No ulterior motivation. And yes he came across to me as either Psych or scum. Not the EA. And if I truly was the EA Ferryman would not have been sane when scum hit him. I would have visited him. The EA isn't posting in this game. It's either Eiii or Erandorr. One is scum the other is 3rd party. And I really was killing time when I went through all the posts in this game looking for breadcrumbs. No ulterior motive there either.
And wtf does "Sevryn was prodded" mean?
Yeah I'm not gonna be voting for you today. Too much assumption on my part for it to be a proper vote. I'm guessing it means he was PM'ed to post so he doesn't get modkilled for inactivity.
Speaking of sevryn, I don't know that he's a good lynch today. The only thing he's got going for him as mafia is JeeJee talking with him a lot, but that doesn't mean he's scum. I'll go ahead and filter/analyze him this morning before I head to work and see what I can find. Jackal if you're so sure of Eiii and Erandorr start putting some evidence behind your accusations. Are you still suspicious of tnkted?
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