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On July 01 2011 17:29 citi.zen wrote: My current impression is that Fishball is playing the most pro-town game I have ever seen out of him. He is the only one trying to contribute and think past the Caller/BC stuff. This game he is even going through the troouble of making real behavior analysis posts. This is milas away from the red FB who lives (and dies) by Ace's rule of "give the town nothing" and snaps at any questioning. If FB turns out to be red in this game I will be shocked (and very impressed).
As it happens, I also like Fishball's scum list of VisceraEyes, LSB and ilovejonn. I would add sandroba and Kurumi to it - both have done little more but spam filler posts since the start of the game.
BC could well be red/GF. Think about the people he chose to "test": both had claimed publicly, and a red BC would know they are town aligned. Unlike Fishball's DT claim, BC's "checks" wre not meant to add any new information, making this a bizarre role claim, almost like he wanted to start with the credibility then set himself up for better stories in the future.
Caller is Caller. It would not be unlike him to lie as town, or change his lies around 100000x as mafia. At this point he either has another bullet or he does not. We'll find out soon enough.
Sometimes I think it's better to not spill out everything and strike them when they least expect it. Those that has the ability to realize the flaws would have realized it already.
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On July 02 2011 02:29 ilovejonn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 14:30 Fishball wrote:On July 01 2011 12:11 ilovejonn wrote: but honestly skipped a few of the last few pages because it was just Caller and Fishball shouting at each other.
You could have made a far better reason than that for "skipping the last few pages". Me and Caller shouting at each other? I would be surprised if anyone were to share your views. Caller and BC, maybe, but Caller and me? We didn't even have more than a couple posts directed at each other. Caller is just abrasive with his posts overall, and has been the majority of the game. Ah yes, sorry, I was really sleepy. I get you and BC mixed up cuz you both have a scout icon lol.
Despite "BloodyC0bbler" is 5 characters longer than "Fishball", has two capital letters and a number, somehow you manage to just ignore our names and only eye the icon which is just 2mm adjacent to it.
This isn't really helping your case, regardless of the legitimacy of your explanation. If this was true, I wonder how many other thoughts that have went through your head were based on the wrong subject.
...and I said you were a smart player. Something has to give.
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Off the record, everyone should take a look at page 6 of this thread.
Take everything on that page with a grain of salt, but one thing is for certain; That's right Mafia, kill me before I confirm everyone.
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Yes, that is me.
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Sit down, both of you. A couple of wannabe kids playing war games. Do you know what it's like to have a bamboo stick up your ass, left to die and then devoured by wild beasts? I know how it feels, first hand. + Show Spoiler +
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Day ends on Saturday? That would take forever, especially with just limited discussion the past few days already ;o
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On July 08 2011 12:07 Chezinu wrote: liar list: BC Caller LSB Kurumi
Truth teller list: Chezinu
The Truth beyond the Truth: Fishball
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I held back my urge until Ace hammered it down.
citi.zen, I had my faith in you. Knew you could pull this off and the results did not disappoint. LOL.
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On July 09 2011 12:34 JeeJee wrote: I fucking suck, if only it clicked earlier.
Ace you're a cruel being for suggesting I sub in here :< I did not know what I was getting myself into
gg
You did well, and played in a calmly manner. Can't really think of what else you could have said or brought up. Too bad you had no audience.
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Seems like everyone has had their say, so I'll just throw in some of my thoughts throughout the game.
Game starts, GM posts his grand plan. I frown and think, "WTF is this shit?". GCQ immediately quotes GM's plan and said "Did you not want to post that if you rolled mafia?".
To which I promptly said,
On June 25 2011 13:27 Fishball wrote: Mafia list: 1. GCQ 2. GMarshal 3. ??? 4. ???
To my amusement, both of them died on Night 0. I assumed the worst and that all 4 Mafia remained. Night 1, I questioned why no one has claimed being role blocked yet. I swear this role would have existed in Ace's game, base on what I know of Ace and what he had commented in other threads, (just like how much he dislikes Bus Drivers in his games). It would all make sense if the Role Blocker had died Night 0.
Early on, most activity were people discussing GM's plan and the lynches for Day 1. I had a gut feeling people were playing into the hands of Mafia and were going in the wrong direction, so I questioned this.
On June 26 2011 05:41 Fishball wrote: Why are we discussing Day 1 lynch so much for now? It's a Night 0 start, and a lot can develop over to Day 1. GCQ and deconduo both jumped on my comment quickly, but deconduo's tone was much stronger.
All of you already know what had developed after that, and I had explained most of my part in the game during my claim. One thing I left out is that I was to make deconduo to look like a fool as much as possible, whether he was able to kill me or not. Although I did not expect him to be a Vigilante in the first place, it surprised me even more that he managed to get himself mod-killed, to which I can only say lol, but it resulted in the better scenario for Town; The Cop lives and was able to make his move.
It was true that there were 2-3 days which I was extremely busy at work early in the game. Also, I did not want to stick my head out so early just to question GM's plan in detail, especially with the sensitive role I have. Of course deconduo would not have been able to comprehend that. When it was time to get ready for Night 1, I had to do an extremely quick crunch through the thread during my lunch break to choose who to check. It boiled down to Palmar/RoL/ilovejonn. Palmar's posts has been all over the place since the beginning. From my perspective, some of his posts were either lies or bad logic, but after reading carefully, I noticed some comments he made, no Mafia would have made them so I took him off my little list. The rest is history.
As fortunate that I was able to live through deconduo's death threat, it was unfortunate that GCQ was the Medic. Later knowing that Mafia had a role to check the roles of dead players, it only makes sense that Mafia would take up the odds to shoot me on Night 2. Regardless, I do not regret making that claim; I would not have let RoL lived or talked his way out. I want him lynched as quick as possible, and I was able to achieve that. I was to check ilovejonn on Night 2, and that would have cleared him if I had lived; If I had lived... of course this would be a different story, but there are no if's. It did perplex me and Ace, when Ace told me that LSB had decided to protect BC on Night 0, even though BC had not done anything. LSB later claimed he protected BC just because he was the "biggest name". lolwut? For the record and for the third time, I would have shot LSB after he had made his comment on me and deconduo.+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 14:27 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 12:58 LSB wrote: @BC I agree with you.
Now, back to the important stuff
About Deconduo and Fishball Deconduo believes that Fishball should die, and would like nothing better to stand over his dead body. Fishball believes Deconduo is mafia (correct me if I'm wrong on this), and therefore wouldn't be able to vig shot him, but rather would use a mafia hit.
What's an easy way to deal with this problem? Easy! Stick them in a cage and see who comes out alive. Just let deconduo shoot Fishball tonight. Oh, and can I please ask vigs to not hit people? Thx
*If Fishball survives, well, deconduo has some explaing to do *If we find two bodies tomorrow morning, deconduo is a bit better off in his story *If all we find tomorrow is Fishball dead, one body. Well, back to square one.
There! Clean and simple solution that doesn't waste a lynch Ah yes, LSB logic. Oh, how I miss it. 1. If deconduo decides not to shoot me, that doesn't necessarily prove anything. It can be a ploy, or it can a be a genuine decision. 2. If we both die, that also doesn't proves anything. What is this "story" that your dreamt about?. deconduo thinks I'm green, but wants to kill me because he is annoyed. If I'm Mafia and I try to take him out with me, how would this story make sense? What would be the point for Mafia to take him out if I were for sure to die? I'm sure there are better targets out there. 3. Square one? If that is what you think, then you have already written me off, as I have no use to the Town at all; What do you take me for, a disposable chess piece? I don't even know what to say. Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote: Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up.
Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable. If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable.
As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP. WTF is this shit? This is even worse than deconduo. If I were a Dayvig, I'd instant kill you now.
BC was trying to support my claim with his own, but that move made my eyes go round. Besides the credibility of a role called "Lie Detector", his claim only drew unnecessary and unwanted suspicion onto my claim, and his, which caused Caller to shoot him. It would be best if he was able to play it out normally, as his logical self. I totally did not expect this from him.
Caller, this post pretty much sums up my thoughts on him.
On July 01 2011 05:47 Fishball wrote: I honestly don't think Caller is Mafia, but I also don't think he would be the 3rd party as well, due to the tight setup of this game. His posts leaves me in awe.
These three has almost been echoing each other all game.
On July 01 2011 05:42 Fishball wrote: sandroba, Palmar, Kurumi. You three are like triplets.
Looking back, it's interesting to notice that the biggest supporters of "Lynch-the-DT-claimer-no-matter-what" plan, were GM, Radfield, and RoL, all whom are Mafia.
Yeah~ Lynch the DT!
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If LSB could have protected me there, I would have been extremely impressed.
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You could only have kept me alive if you were lynched the Night before in place of RoL, which is not possible.
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On July 10 2011 09:23 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 09:06 Fishball wrote: If LSB could have protected me there, I would have been extremely impressed. He used that on BC night 0.
I know. You missed the part where I said:
On July 10 2011 08:32 Fishball wrote: It did perplex me and Ace, when Ace told me that LSB had decided to protect BC on Night 0, even though BC had not done anything. LSB later claimed he protected BC just because he was the "biggest name". lolwut?
Just saying if LSB hadn't wasted his protection, and was able to use it to save me, I would have been impressed.
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On July 10 2011 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote + To my amusement, both of them died on Night 0. I assumed the worst and that all 4 Mafia remained. Night 1, I questioned why no one has claimed being role blocked yet. I swear this role would have existed in Ace's game, base on what I know of Ace and what he had commented in other threads, (just like how much he dislikes Bus Drivers in his games). It would all make sense if the Role Blocker had died Night 0.
Actually, this was part of our plan. We were going to roleblock+kill people for 2 nights so that we hid the roleblock from being shown, then when we actually roleblocked someone they would look suspicious claiming RB on D3 or something since no one had claimed previously. On top of that we were also a bit worried of roles that activate upon being killed, so we figured two birds, one stone. Namely Zombies/Virgins/NRA member, etc. The problem with that was that our roleblocker died N0 -_-
I had thought of that plan, because if I were Mafia, I would have likely done the same. I was actually more concerned of getting Role Blocked than dying on Night 2.
We can all agree that Caller is crazy ;/
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On July 10 2011 09:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I also still think the DT claim was poorly played. I think you should of been able to push a case on me without claiming, and claiming puts the town in an awkward position assuming there is no flips. Even if the idea was mafia supported, it was still a valid strategy.
I admit the reason we also pushed it as the smart play was because while theoretically the town should lynch the DT first in that scenario, we knew SAYING it should happen and actually making it happen would be hard, since everyone wants to trust blue roles and not just haphazardly throw them away. On the flip side of that, if one of us decided to claim DT later on we could force the town to lean to not killing us, since I knew they wouldn't want to anyway. Policy lynching DT's is always a tough sell, and I figured we should establish the need and reasoning behind how DT's should play earlier on. It would allow us to kill you if we notice what you are doing, while hopefully keeping the town off our asses.
Even though there are ways we can use a DT policy lynch to our advantage as mafia, to deny the danger of a DT claim to the longevity of the town would be foolish. Think about if we fake claimed with the same case as you, it wouldn't be hard to sell it up the river for the next few nights, especially if we KNEW we killed one DT already.
Like I said before, blindly claiming is never good, no matter what role, but this is not even close to that. There are a lot of elements that I factor in before claiming. How long would I be able to lay low before drawing too much negative attention? How likely can I get you lynched if I had not claimed? How much more effort do I have to do put in to get you lynched, even if I can get you lynched? How likely will a receive protection if I had not claimed? Is it likely that I would receive protection if I had claimed? How much time do I have in real life to deal with this? Would Town fair well if I had died? What audience am I facing? Is RoL ghey? etc. etc.. Regardless, I planned it out, achieved my goal, got you lynched in record time; I can't really ask for more.
Of course, if I had known a Medic was dead and the Mafia knows a Medic is dead and LSB already blew his, I probably would have acted differently, but that also means I would be cheating.
Results speaks louder than hypothetical scenarios. I'd do it again in this game if you had ask me. In a new game however, who knows? The variables changes, my answer changes, as well as my decisions.
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On July 10 2011 10:10 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I really think I could of fought off your accusation if I played it a bit better. Namely attacking everything you said, your mild analysis of me, your claim, and not strayed off into what the fuck caller might be thinking. The biggest issue I faced was starting to argue when I was already like 2 votes away from my lynch. Your case was alright, but basically just came down to "I checked rol." and whether or not the veracity of your claim could stand up to scrutiny, which if I played it right, it shouldn't have. That's my opinion though, while I may not have lived and I might have still gotten lynched it definitely wouldn't of happened in such a quick pace. I am surprised at how quickly the town just decided to rape me, it was a bit disappointing considering how frail I felt your case was.
So we're talking about my case against you now? Like I said many times, even to myself. No "if's".
"Frail case" it may be, but this "frail case" was convincing to most, and this "frail case" achieved it's goal. You just can't argue about that.
If you're really surprised how quickly the Town jumped on the wagon, then you're really missing a lot of things. No matter how legit your reasoning might be, to yourself (like the missing last vote incident), it does not matter. You were suspected; Not just by me, but by others as well. Why would I check you if I had not suspected you? All I had to do was to confirm it in public. From a psychological stand point, this "confirmation" acts like an exclamation mark. It gives them the notion of, "Fuck yeah, let's do this". Town at that point cannot know for sure whether I'm Mafia or Town, but they were all willing to hop on my wagon to run you over.
If that wasn't enough, your scrambled defensive posts only supported my accusations even more. Re-read them from a blind unknowing Townie point of view, and you will see why (or I hope you would). Hell, you can even ask the others in the thread.
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On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Fishball, I am fairly good at looking at a situation from an unbiased standpoint. When I say your case against me was pretty much "lol I checked him" I assure you, it was.
And based on what, do you that think you're fairly good at looking at a situation from an unbiased standpoint, and when you say my case against you was pretty much "lol I checked him", that you can assure me, it was? lol.
On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: The people who suspected me were you, and if you want to count caller shouting randomly how I slipped as him suspecting me, then I guess you can count him too. I didn't see anyone else really suspecting me, even if my play was sloppy.
This is what I found within 2 minutes of searching. Feel free to search the rest of the 60 pages if you will. Bottom line is, does it matter if I was the only one on you? People were convinced. How hard is it to understand?
+ Show Spoiler +On June 29 2011 23:05 Caller wrote: more to come when I feel like it RoL just scumslipped On June 30 2011 03:52 Caller wrote: by the way, Ace is probably laughing his ass off that a combination of my stupidity + other stupid townies is going to get town in a circlejerk of lynching ourselves while mafia trollololol in the background. I see you there, RoL. On June 30 2011 23:13 LSB wrote: I support this, for my own reasons.
Oh and ##Vote: RebirthofLegend On June 30 2011 23:25 ilovejonn wrote: ##Vote: RebirthofLegend
I was already suspicious of him from the vote switch and excuse, + his hit claim right after Night post seems to just be causing confusion for the town. And a non-randomly shouting version of Caller: + Show Spoiler +On July 01 2011 00:48 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 00:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 30 2011 23:20 Fishball wrote:On June 30 2011 22:03 Caller wrote: RoL, you should claim. It doesn't matter what he claims, as in my eyes, whatever he claims would be a lie. It was rather fortunate for him that he actually said a Medic saved him last night. If he claims that he is a Veteran, than obviously one of us is lying (not like he isn't already). If I'm lying, there there will be no argument. But a Mafia Veteran? Good luck with that. Now, he claims that a Medic saved him. No, I don't need the Medic to come fourth to prove the claim if a Medic did save him, but there are a few questions everyone might want to ask themselves first. - RoL has not exactly shown the strongest Town-aligned play in this game, in fact, alot of his stuff falls into the grey area. The "oops, I missed my vote" move he pulled at the end raised eyebrows. Why would a Medic, among all players, would choose to protect him? - Caller has claimed Vigilante and shot GMarshal at the start (I'm still pondering this). deconduo has also claimed Vigilante. So if what RoL says is true, there has to a third Vigilante or similar type of role out there that has Night KP. What is the likelihood of this? - You combine the two variables up top; What is the likelihood that RoL's claim is true? - Furthermore, do I seem to be making up all this fuss just to paint RoL red? That's all I have to say. You know what, lets get serious. I think I have actually figured out exactly what happened and it makes perfect sense. I know I was floating somewhat in the gray area since I hadn't actually done a lot of legwork on day 1, and hell I don't even know what I was more surprised about, getting hit or getting protected. But I think I figured it out. Since you are scum and you are using my voting no lynch accident as the thing that made me look scummy, and by association made VisceraEyes look scummy, meaning you basically lined up a vig/lynch for the next cycle as well as getting me offed. But how could I explain that? Simple, VisceraEyes is the medic, who viewed me not killing him as being protown, and thus decided to protect me for not hammering him D1. He seemed really happy and eager to prove his townieness after being spared, and this is what I could come up with, to me its the only thing that makes sense to explain me surviving. Considering someone died last night though, I am unsure of where the extra KP came from, I first guess would be that caller lied and is a compulsive/multi hit role and just tried to kill me, perhaps even a third party. He said something about suspecting me earlier in the night. At the same time this would mean both me and scamp took a hit last night, which is odd. I would view the scamp hit as more likely a mafia hit trying to blue snipe. On the flip side I think this means I must have been hit by a third party. I think if I was caller and third party a good way of trying to play this game would be to try and kill the mafia off knowing that even if you hit a townie you are still helping your win conditions. This would also explain to me how caller is claiming to have multiple powers that we can't fully understand. This would also explain why he didn't give a fuck and just day 1'd Gmarshal, a generally very good town player who establishes himself really well in games as town which could be problematic later on if he called out caller on his trolly bullshit. RoL, stop dodging and claim. You're trying to pull a busdrove onto a dead guy as an insane DT. So let's take your hypothetical here. That I'm actually a 3rd party. Firstly this means through your inference that you "know" I'm not mafia. That's a scumslip. But let's say its not strong enough. If I were 3rd party, would I claim that I'm a killing role? Would I also say I have one bullet, and then proceed to shoot somebody else? Let's think about it: In a game of this size, reasonably there would be 1 or 2 Vigilantes at the most. Deconduo was a vigilante. I can confirm this because I was also a vigilante and he said things that only a vigilante in this game would know. Namely, we both only have one bullet, and some other things. So there are no more vigilantes in this game. I shot GMarshal. There was only one other hit Night 0. It must have been the mafia hit, because I would've gotten my shot refunded otherwise (hint: I didn't.) By deduction, since a 3rd party role wants to kill people, the fact that nobody else died means that either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party. You claimed that you were shot last night, and Scamp also died. Therefore, you say there were two hits. I did not shoot, because I only had one bullet that was used Night 0. If I was 3rd party, why would I endanger myself by shooting? I'd prove myself to either be 3rd party or a liar, both of which are lynchworthy. As I've already shown, either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party as seen in night 0. There is no reason for me, if I were 3rd party, to trap myself in this situation, especially by doing what I did. If town wouldn't kill a 3rd party in that situation, mafia would. Basically, unless you're saying I'm violating the "play-to-win" rule, and saying I deserve to be modkilled, you're full of shit and also a liar. You didn't take a hit last night, and this was clearly planned ahead of time (as you'll see below). I'm now utterly convinced that Fishball is legit. When I claimed, this was your reaction: Show nested quote +lol I am so happy caller is actually doing work now. That post on LSB will save me some time later on. On the bright side, I can now stop labeling you as effortless troll! Why the sudden about face? Was it because this was a plan that you created to get town to waste a lynch on me? Good try, but now you're in the shithole. Also, I remember you pulling a similar stunt back a long, long time ago. This game, in fact: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83951¤tpage=30#594 . Turned out you were mafia that game. ##Vote: RebirthofLegend
On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I still think you played it out wrong, even if it worked for a bit.
You can keep your opinions to yourself if I haven't made that point clear already. I've explained in detail to you with actual facts and results, and that I clearly don't agree with you. No, I don't expect your to agree with me, but you shouldn't expect your rant will be convincing me or anyone else either. Or are you like L, who likes to live in his own world with his own logic?
On July 10 2011 11:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: And by a bit, I mean until you, BC, and caller proceeded to die and confuse the town which all half stemmed from your DT claim.
It was BC's lie as a vanilla Townie that drew further suspicion on me, stemming Caller to think that me and BC were Mafia. Did you not read the thread at all? Even citi.zen has pointed that out. To further elaborate, regardless of how "bad" BC's lie was, him, as a vanilla Townie, without full knowledge of my alignment, was convinced enough by my claim to lie for me. You can down play me all you want with your blanket statement, but all that supports your claim is you and your own words.
On July 10 2011 12:16 Ace wrote:LSB suspected you too, thats how you got shot/mimiced that night
I left that point out on purpose. He is clearly upset and is just tunneling me now. Damn I'm good at this. Someone give me a Village Idiot role already.
Logic is nothing in front of a broken ego.
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On July 10 2011 17:05 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 09:17 Fishball wrote: You could only have kept me alive if you were lynched the Night before in place of RoL, which is not possible. Well, yeah, I could've gotten myself lynched and bought you another night, that's what I was saying. Then you guys could've lynched rol the next night, and you had another investigation.
You could have? Sure... Fuck this, I'll bite. Look, I was to set to make a move that Night. There is no way in hell, after me putting RoL on the chopping block, you can somehow overthrow my claim and replace him with your head. Even if you had publicly claimed Virgin, there will be people questioning the legitimacy of your claim, and why should we lynch a greater variable (you), in place of a likely scum (RoL). I had aimed to rid of RoL swiftly. Do you think I would have allowed RoL to live possibly another 120 hours to "defend" himself? Also, it's not like I know there is a Virgin in the game. If you really wanted to buy time for Town, the only way I see it is to publicly claim Day 1, make a solid case and offer yourself to be lynched.
On July 10 2011 17:07 Palmar wrote: Also, I think that everyone suspected RoL at the time Fishball, you probably could've got the lynch done traditionally
I've at least answered to this a handful of times, during the game and post game. I would have like to speak my mind here, but that would not be very nice.
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On July 10 2011 19:56 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +Looking back, it's interesting to notice that the biggest supporters of "Lynch-the-DT-claimer-no-matter-what" plan, were GM, Radfield, and RoL, all whom are Mafia. Actually, I spent several posts arguing that the dt should NOT be lynched first, and maybe not lynched at all. I don't think I actually posted after your claim as I went MIA.
I know you didn't post much after the first few days. I was mainly talking about the pre-Night 0 discussion. My comment on you was mainly based on this quote:
On June 25 2011 17:58 Radfield wrote: Fully agree with GMarshal. The easiest way to deal with dt claims is simply to lynch both parties as otherwise there is no accountability for the dt. A one for one trade is a good trade for town, but frankly this means that dts should not be claiming their results in thread unless absolutely necessary, and should only do so if they feel trading their life for the mafia players life is worth it. Preferably they simply build a good case and push for a lynch.
From this post: + Show Spoiler +On June 25 2011 17:58 Radfield wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 25 2011 13:14 GMarshal wrote:
Well, I'm bored, so its time for me to set out in my quest to spark discussion. ^_^
First of all, we need to establish two policies now, before they come back to bite us in the ass.
1.) We disbelieve all roleclaims. The game is no flip, so any claims are completely unconformable! I for one will ignore all claims. Since we can't prove them, then they have no bearing, ignore *all* claims.
2.) Since there is no flip there is no way to confirm dts. So we hang any dt who claims to have found mafia and then we lynch their claimed check. No questions asked, this is a good trade for the town 1:1 and a terrible trade for mafia. With this policy we keep the mafia from fake claiming to fuck with us.
I also have a lynch set out for day 1. I propose we lynch or shoot Chezinu. Now I <3 chez, he is a hilarious guy, but his post provide absolutely no bearing on his alignment! He plays super troll/scummy every game for fun, we have no way to analyze him, and I don't want to have to deal with him lategame and try to essentially guess his alignment. If we take him out early he won't be a problem later. Alternatively he could have a change of heart and post normally, but I don't see that happening.
Kurumi, a message to you. If you play the way you played XL I will personally make sure you die, post good, decent posts that are the proper length, with analysis, or we'll have no choice but to kill you. Random FoS' are not acceptable, trolling and random tunneling is not acceptable, I won't stand for it.
Also this is a majority lynch game. This means we need to agree on who to hang. To ensure activity I would like to have two or three people to form a voting platform with me so we can properly pressure people, Ace made an excellent point in PYP:I post game write up, which was that votes without backing give no pressure, hence we need to bring people up to at least L-3 to force activity and/or panic out of them. Anyone up to joining my platform for pressuring inactives/scum?
Come on people, more time to discuss is a benefit, we should be taking advantage of these hours to figure out what we are doing going into night 0/day 1.
So thoughts, plans, burning desires?
~The Reaper I've been thinking about the exact same things for the last two days Anyways, I agree with parts of your post, and disagree with others. First, I agree with a day one policy lynch of sorts, but certainly not a policy lynch of Chez, nor any other specific player. Chez is very good at this game(pegged my BP role last game based off a single day of posting) and it seems he's not playing brown this game anyways Typically one's goal for a Day 1 Lynch is not necessarily to find scum, but rather to get everyone's opinion and vote down on paper. However, the no-flip aspect of the game means mafia need not fear pushing a green townie to their death, as we will not be able to ascertain alignment anyways, hence mafia will likely be able to blend into a lynch much easier than normal. Second, the Majority lynch aspect makes pulling off a successful lynch much more difficult than normal, and can very likely lead to a no-lynch on Day 1. For these reasons I think we should consider an inactivity/lurker lynch for Day 1. However, the real reason we need to consider a Day 1 lurker lynch is this: The only way we can scum hunt in this game is through post-analysis, as it will be next to impossible to do vote analysis, and we cannot rely on investigative results at all(as Gmarshal pointed out). We need to eliminate lurkers and keep the active players around, as that allows us to effectively winnow through posts and find the mafia. Obviously this is not a policy to be carried past Day 1, as I feel an effective case(read: a majority case) will be able to be presented by Day 2. But for now, getting rid of non-posters is a good use of our lynch. In the event that all 16 players are active and contributing, a no-lynch is a viable option. Keep in mind that with a KP of only 1, we have a ton of time in this game, and can afford either a no-lynch or a lurker lynch on Day 1. Pro's: * Clears out lurkers, allowing high-post players to stay around, which in turn gives more content to work with * Forces mafia to be active in order to stay alive Con's* Gives mafia an even easier place to hide due to the semi-policy lynch Either way, I think we all need to realize that our only two likely options on Day 1 are No-lynch or Lurker-lynch, as getting a majority to vote for an active poster will be unlikely. It will be even more unlikely to lynch an active mafia poster, as there will be three other players defending and redirecting. Which means if we do actually lynch an active poster Day 1, it will almost surely be an active townie. Some important points on voting: There can be absolutely no throwing around of random votes, and no adding on of a ton of suspects. We need our Day cycles to be clear and focused, with only several candidates up for discussion. If no consensus can be reached on those few targets, then a no-lynch is probably ok. Remember, we have lots of time and no-flip, so lynching someone without a good case is extremely weak in this set-up. Anyone who flops a vote down on someone and then disappears for the rest of the cycle should be vig-juice. Everyone NEEDS to be committed to pushing their target and/or being willing to switch their vote as new info comes in. In addition, everyone should be committing to at least attempt to be around for the deadline in case addition votes are needed. Majority voting takes wayyy more effort than a standard leader-gets-lynched voting set-up. Regarding Claims:Fully agree with GMarshal. The easiest way to deal with dt claims is simply to lynch both parties as otherwise there is no accountability for the dt. A one for one trade is a good trade for town, but frankly this means that dts should not be claiming their results in thread unless absolutely necessary, and should only do so if they feel trading their life for the mafia players life is worth it. Preferably they simply build a good case and push for a lynch. This basically goes for all town investigative roles(or other) that they should not be claiming results in thread. Even if you are a list-check dt(unlikely), don't bother claiming in thread, since there is no way to verify that you are legit. The chances of bogus mafia claims are far higher in this setup, as they cant be disproven through a simple lynch. Vigs can probably feel free to claim their kill, but only if there are two kills(or more) on the board. LIkewise vets and medic-recipients can claim their hits, but again only if there is a kill missing. This set-up encourages mafia interferance like crazy, so anything we can do to minimize it is a must. Regarding Roles:Coroner: It's likely we have some kind of coroner role in the game(reveals the flip), but we can't rely on it. In the event that we do however, it's extremely important for the coroner to save his flip for when a dt or some other comfirmable scenario presents itself. For instance, if a dt claims Qatol is red, and we lynch Qatol, the coroner should use his ability to show that Qatol was indeed red so that we can ascertain the alignment of the dt. A coroner saving his power also limits the ability of mafia to fake claim, as their fake claims can be outted. There is a question in my mind that it may make sense for the coroner(s) to roleclaim immediately, but I haven't thought enough about it. Feel free to weigh in on it though. Vigilante: Please please please vigs target inactives. We need this game to be as active as possible, so it is essential that you use your hits to kill off non-posting players. The only other possible time to shoot would be to clear up claims, but that is probably less effective than lynching. Remember, we have tons of time this game, and only 1 player dies per night, so you can always wait another night to gather more info before shooting. Keep in mind that shooting brings us closer to LYLO, and that you don't even get the results of your shot(the most satisfying part ) The rest of the roles don't really matter, and with only 1 KP we probably don't have alot of vets or medics anyways. As a bonus tidbit of info: Assuming two deaths per cycle(One Lynch, One night kill, no other KP), LYLO is day 4. If we decide to no-lynch today, that pushes LYLO back to Day 5.
If you had changed your stance after that, I must confess I had not read it or missed it. I literally ignored most of the "DT lynch" discussions after glancing through a couple pages.
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On July 11 2011 00:20 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2011 22:59 Fishball wrote: If you had changed your stance after that, I must confess I had not read it or missed it. I literally ignored most of the "DT lynch" discussions after glancing through a couple pages. As you should have
Fixed. *cough*
Looking back, it's interesting to notice that the biggest supporters of "Lynch-the-DT-claimer-no-matter-what" plan, were GM, Radfield (although he changed his stance later), and RoL, all whom are Mafia.
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