On June 18 2011 06:32 sandroba wrote:
okay so who would you protect instead?
okay so who would you protect instead?
If I were a medic? aidnai, youngminii, maybe someone else.
Blues should use their own discretion though.
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 18 2011 06:32 sandroba wrote: okay so who would you protect instead? If I were a medic? aidnai, youngminii, maybe someone else. Blues should use their own discretion though. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I'm going to wait a little bit to comment on the night kills, as Imp looks like he might have been a vigi shot. Also, if you've been PMing any of them, and have relevant information, it might be nice to share. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 19 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote: Well RoL, I really don't think you are scum, because you are acting too controversial and reckless, claiming multiple shit and atracting attention to yourself, and that's the exact oposite of how scum usually behave imo. However, people are right that you have been useless so far, so how about you share with us your 3-4 scum suspects and do some analysis? You are saying ILJ lynch was retarded but you did not try to stop it. Also how are you supose to be able to "scumhunt in pm land" if you don't even have time to read the fucking thread? It's kind of hard to defend you when you do nothing to defend yourself. That's not a good reason to judge whether he's town or scum. In fact, I think that's the very definition of WIFOM. I'm interested in seeing his scum suspects though, as that would probably be one of the first real stances on people he'll have taken this game. (Besides Kenpachi, lol :p) | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 19 2011 06:03 sandroba wrote: That's not wifom, wifom is arguing the other way around. That's just how scum normally behave. It's not certain to me that he's not mafia, but makes it more unlikely. Scum normally behave like A. Suspect is behaving like B. Thus, Suspect must be town. OR Scum normally behave like A. Scum knows that scum normally behave like A. Scum acts like B instead. Town thinks Scum is town. It's basic WIFOM. That's like saying in PYPI, Chezinu is acting really crazy, thus he must be town. Ace is being forward and direct, thus he must be town. You have to look at his actions by themselves, and judge them for how they work in the game you're playing. You can't just compare everyone in every game to your expected behaviour for scum and make your calls from there. Sure, it might be a start, but if all scum acted like scum, then this game wouldn't be very hard, would it? That's why I'm interested in seeing RoL's views, because that will let me see his actual thought processes. Right now, I have a null read, starting to lean a bit more towards scum, simply because he hasn't done anything all game, until very recently, and it was starting to look scummy with constant delaying tactics. @RoL If you don't feel comfortable releasing a scum list, are you going to make a fuller case on syllogism? I just want to see where you're coming from now, because the only read I can make is from lack of content, which won't ever be very strong. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 20 2011 04:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote: @Sinani What are your thoughts on the two major candidates, syllogism and hiro protagonist? Day 1, you stuck a vote on Kenpachi, who was most likely not going to be lynched. Now, you stick a vote on Node, who hasn't even posted today. I'm not going to question the vote at this moment (though it's silly to pressure someone who isn't there), but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the other candidates. I'm also expecting you to change your vote by the end of the day, to a major candidate. It's throwaway to just stick a vote on a random lurker. If you wanted to make a case against Node, that would be fine, but if you're not trying to get him lynched, I don't get why you're voting for him. As for the two major candidates today, syllogism, and hiro, I'm actually liking both the cases presented so far. For the moment, I'm going to put my vote on syllogism. This is because between him and hiro, hiro's defense seems more legitimate, whereas syllogism simply calls RoL's analysis bad an doesn't address any of his actual points. It seems like he's just hoping he can slough off the accusations against him, and that we'll forget about it. ##Vote: Syllogism | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 20 2011 13:01 sandroba wrote: RoL, why are you asking for DT checks on people on hiro's lynch while asking for a vig shot on hiro? That's like you are already assuming he will flip green. What the hell is your logic here? Asking for a vig hit on hiro, means he thinks he's red. Asking for DT checks on those people, shouldn't have anything to do with Hiro's alignment. If you want to know their alignment, you want to know their alignment. If Hiro flips green, that doesn't make everyone on his lynch mafia, and if he flips red, it doesn't make everyone on his lynch town. Mafia split their vote amongst candidates, most of the time. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I'm asking this, because your "trap" and it's results seem a little weird. There's a couple things wrong with it, and I'd like you (Mataza) to clarify: 1. Mafia would want to know what kind of blue Mataza was. They don't want to waste a hit on a vet (like they did), and they don't want to shoot a hatter if they don't know his bomb target. Did RoL ever press you or Sandroba for your specific role? This is a big deal, because I expect if RoL were mafia, he would be smart enough to try to manipulate you, than just shoot indiscriminately when he hears blue. I'm also asking because San had a strong town read on RoL, so it would be easy for RoL to press him for information if he wanted. 2. Why is Sandroba's death related to your role? It doesn't make sense to me, for mafia to shoot Sandroba just to tie up "loose ends". There's a chance any townie can get shot, so mafia shooting you shouldn't make RoL instantly look suspicious. Townies get shot, and I'm sure he could have explained that to Sandroba. So, I don't get the "scum master plan" you're proposing here. If scum wanted to kill you for a blue slip, all they needed to do was shoot you, and someone else. There's no need to silence Sandroba. @RoL Would you mind sharing any of your PM's with Sandroba? I want to see the "blue crumbing", rather than just take Mataza's and Sandroba's word that it was explicit. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 22 2011 08:11 Mataza wrote: @Mr. Wiggles. 1. To my knowledge no pressure at all. I believe it´s an equally valid method to feign no interest as to keep everyone on a "need to know" basis. Pressuring for a role through another person is an arduous task and might be interpreted as fishing. By not fishing no one would have a reason to tell that to "Mason #2" They were just riding high on 3 bluesnipes in 2 days. Well, he could have just asked what you were hinting to Sandroba. You said San went to him because he thought your claim was suspicious. Of course, I don't know the exact nature of their relationship, but if he trusted RoL enough to run to him at the first sign of suspicious behaviour, to tell him you were blue, RoL probably could have pushed him for a bit more information on San without attracting too much suspicion. There is a lot of risk involved, in just shooting a "blue". With the only flips so far being detectives and medics, chances are you'd be shooting into a hatter or vet. I don't see scum wanting to take a gamble when they've had relatively smooth sailing, it just seems weird. How do you know how strong Sandrobas townread on RoL was? From Night 1: On June 18 2011 05:21 sandroba wrote: Medics: -RoL -Aidnai -Wiggles -Varpulis -BC On June 18 2011 05:57 sandroba wrote: @wiggles It's my read on RoL. Do you want me to argue why I think he's town? I don't see that being productive. He thought he was town enough to warrant medic protection, so he must have had a decently strong read. You don't ask for medic protection on people who aren't doing anything unless you have a pretty strong read. 2. Look for my blueslips. I dare you to find condemning ones. I am very different from the other blue snipes in behaviour. There´s still a chance for coincidence but it´s miniscule. See, if you would tell Xx that you find Yy suspicious, because Yy is claiming blue in a weird way to you and the following night Yy drops dead, woudln´t you doubt Xx too? Wouldn´t you find it at least curious and tell all your other masons? What you are proposing is about as likely as your own explanation in PTP, that you got framed and your target got busdriven to the on-death alignmentrevealer, all in one night. I´m not saying it´s impossible, but you should go buy a lottery ticket if it happens. I'm not sure why you're talking about Blue-slips. How do you know that mafia were shooting at you as a blue-snipe? How do we know that mafia have been trying to blue-snipe at all? It's all conjecture, as we don't know scum's motivations for their kills. We're just assuming, that since blues are coming up dead, that mafia must be blue-sniping. However, this isn't water-tight reasoning. I was masoned to aidai before he got modkilled, and on day 2 we talked a little about who we thought scum might be. One of the people we talked about, was Hiro. What I told aidnai, was that Hiro was either red, or a bad blue. After the events of the day, I was more convinced it was bad blue, that scum, so my vote landed on syllogism. It turned out I was right about Hiro. So, for example, if aidnai hadn't been modkilled, and hiro had shown up shot today, would I be more suspicious of aidnai? Not really. He knew that I thought hiro might be blue, but my read on him from his previous actions was that he was town. Maybe I'm just naive, but I'm not going to relate a death to something I said, unless it happens more than once, and even then, I'd try to back it up with some other kind of analysis. You also side-stepped the question of why Sandroba had to be killed. Sure, he might have been a bit more suspicious of RoL, but one person you've talked about dying doesn't make someone scum, like I've said. On a general note, and it's funny you bring it up, town is starting to act a lot like it did in PTP. It thinks it's caught scum, so it's just tunneling. There's no analysis yet, just this "trap", which I think isn't anything at all, and you guys are all convinced that RoL is scum, and are already at a point where you won't listen to anything anyone says. Town did this in PTP, and they got absolutely raped. There was confusion that entire game, and town didn't successfully finger a single mafia through analysis. They just caught the scent of blood in the water and went crazy, while mafia sat back and laughed. I'm actually surprised that a lot of the vets are letting this happen and are just sheeping along. Personally, I agree with RoL's analysis of YM, so that's where my vote's going for now. ##Vote: Youngminii | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 22 2011 09:25 youngminii wrote: wiggles i'm curious as to why you put so much effort into defending RoL then you make one line saying 'i agree with this guy' especially when: Show nested quote + On June 18 2011 06:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: On June 18 2011 06:32 sandroba wrote: okay so who would you protect instead? If I were a medic? aidnai, youngminii, maybe someone else. Blues should use their own discretion though. surely you'd have to have thought i was pretty townie if you wanted a medic to use their save on me i don't want this to be ignored, answer it when you're here On day 1, it looked like you were contributing and adding analysis. That's where my initial read came from, a combination of activity+contribution. Same thing with aidnai. The reads weren't incredibly strong, but were where I would place a protect with the information available to me night 1. After night 1 though, my read changed, as I started to see the pattern of pushing for lynches in a way in which you can't be held accountable when we lynched into town. This can be seen with starting the Day 1 ILJ lynch and then calling him green while keeping your vote on him, pushing for RoL on day 2 and starting a bandwagon, before saying it's a crap shoot, and now on day 3 asking for people to lynch lurkers to look reasonable if RoL flips green while later flopping to wanting to kill him. I didn't feel the need to add much in my last post, as the analysis by RoL is already pretty thorough. As for why I'm defending him? Because I think he's town and there isn't a great case against him, just two mafia hits and conjecture. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Your plan "worked", but it's flawed from the get-go. Firstly, RoL claims he never saw anything saying you were blue. Sandroba said he "crumbed" it, so until RoL shares his PMs with San around that time, the fact he knew you were blue is dubious at best. Second, you have no idea what scum are trying to do with their kills. Maybe they're shooting active people? They've also been killing off vets slowly. Until they tell you, you can't know what scum are shooting for, so whether or not you "slipped" in thread is irrelevant, mafia could still have had a reason to shoot you. Third, you still haven't given me a reason for why Sandroba should have been shot. You argue about most efficient use of scum resources. The most efficient use of scum resources in the case of RoL being mafia and knowing you were blue would be to shoot you, and then shoot someone else who was a high priority target. Going for a couple hours now, be back later. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On June 22 2011 11:53 sinani206 wrote: Back from the Grand Canyon! It was quite fun. Spent some time with my family, and now I get to go back to living in my room. Of the 8 voting for RoL (not including me): 1 (Mataza) proved he was Mafia with the whole PM thing. (no shit) 1 (GGQ) voted without posting in the thread 6 voted with a post such as "good evidence" or something like that. Not scummy at all, considering the circumstances. I propose someone shoots GGQ tonight because he hasn't really contributed at all and killing inactives is the vigilante's job. GGQ has been passing by with 1 to 2 posts a day, and everyone has overlooked that. So I will be voting for RoL today and hopefully someone shoots GGQ tonight. ##Vote: RebirthOfLegend Does anyone else find sinani to be incredibly scummy as well? And can you clarify if the bolded part is sarcasm? "Mataza brought forward a "trap" that shows RoL is scum. Mataza is also scum. The people agreeing with Mataza's conclusions aren't scummy even though he's scum? (Or is that sarcasm? Doesn't really matter though) I will vote RoL based off the "evidence" someone I think is scum brought forward. Jumping on the bandwagon" That makes perfect sense... -_- | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
June 22 2011 18:14 GMT
#1025
Also, consider this: Scum on the chopping block will claim vigilante (Even though they'll have to implicate more members or fake a double stack in order to make their hit look real) A vigilante on the chopping block will claim vigilante It's a null-tell at best, and saying it makes him look scummy is silly. If he's scum or a vig, he's going to claim. On June 22 2011 17:47 youngminii wrote: Show nested quote + On June 22 2011 17:45 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On June 22 2011 17:38 youngminii wrote: On June 20 2011 12:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Idea for night actions Currently here is what I would like to do. I want ALL vigilantes to target hiro tonight. Vigilante hits get refunded if they are stacked with mafia or anything else, so we won't be wasting hits. I will also carefully think through how I would like to try to organize the remaining DT/Hatters and on what subjects to have them act. All ideas are welcome for this. my initial thoughts are Mataza, DeMorcerf, and VisceraEyes HAHAHAHAHHA AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ....? You caught me, I am definitely not above using elaborate strategies to confuse mafia. wait.... look at how I avoided dying so far? There is a reason that while we are both considered vets, that I am on a whole different level and its because I can change up styles to do what needs to be done. Much like Jack Bauer.... ok there's absolutely no way i'm letting you live today just wait until the game is over and you'll see that your tunneling of me was terrible if not horrific once we kill you maybe we'll FINALLY get to tackle the lurkers On June 22 2011 17:55 youngminii wrote: Okay here's the lowdown for anyone tuning in that doesn't understand/doesn't wanna sift through pages of horseshit. The following may or may not be in chronological order. - I want to focus on lurkers, primarily LandenC and demorcerf - Mataza claimed Vet and that he was hit. He also claimed to have set up a plan with Sandroba (who is now dead) - This plan was sprung and apparently paints RoL as scum - Mataza is absolutely sure that the plan went off, RoL denies taking the bait while Mataza claims Sandroba made absolutely sure RoL took the bait - BC thinks Mataza is making this all up in an elaborate plan set up by the mafia - RoL posts an analysis where he believes that I am mafia - RoL claims Vig, however just last night he posted: Show nested quote + On June 20 2011 12:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Idea for night actions Currently here is what I would like to do. I want ALL vigilantes to target hiro tonight. Vigilante hits get refunded if they are stacked with mafia or anything else, so we won't be wasting hits. I will also carefully think through how I would like to try to organize the remaining DT/Hatters and on what subjects to have them act. All ideas are welcome for this. my initial thoughts are Mataza, DeMorcerf, and VisceraEyes - RoL claims he was 'tricking' the mafia Basically it's coming down to lynching RoL based on Mataza's plan, his slip up with the Vig claim and his past history I guess, or me based on RoL's analysis. Keep in mind the same tunneling style that RoL used in the previous day's syllogism lynch. Two posts, less than 10 minutes apart. "I'm going to kill RoL, but say I want to focus on the lurkers, so when RoL flips town I can just say we should have focused on the lurkers" Is no one else seeing this? | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
June 22 2011 20:15 GMT
#1037
On June 23 2011 05:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I was under the impression that alignments are randomly generated. Is that not the case? It depends on the host. I think they're normally randomly generated, but may be changed by the host for balancing purposes. Say, me, RoL, BC, Node, YM, and OpZ were all mafia, the game would be imbalanced due to the relative experience level of the players on the scum team compared to the rest of town, so the host would change it a bit. At least, that's how I think it works. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
June 22 2011 20:24 GMT
#1040
On June 23 2011 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Balance cannot be used as far as I can see. Anyone got anything else? Time is ticking. Yeah, using balance as an argument for alignment is really weak. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
June 23 2011 01:21 GMT
#1098
On June 23 2011 10:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh...I might as well say it....I'm dying tonight. I've had a bomb on BC since Night one.... Hmmm? Do you mean mafia's going to shoot you? Or you're going to suicide into someone? You're keeping the bomb on BC, or are you telling us because you're moving it? Also, what made you want to claim, and aren't you afraid of RB? | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
June 23 2011 01:45 GMT
#1106
On June 23 2011 10:39 ~OpZ~ wrote: Show nested quote + On June 23 2011 10:21 Mr. Wiggles wrote: On June 23 2011 10:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: Oh...I might as well say it....I'm dying tonight. I've had a bomb on BC since Night one.... Hmmm? Do you mean mafia's going to shoot you? Or you're going to suicide into someone? You're keeping the bomb on BC, or are you telling us because you're moving it? Also, what made you want to claim, and aren't you afraid of RB? Nope. Don't care anymore...Just don't care. Plain and simple. Lmao. No one's claimed Role Block yet, so if the RB'er out there, the mafia ain't been using him. But hey, that doesn't mean he aint right? Sup Wiggles! Party at your house tonight? Sure thing. :p Just wondering, cause it seemed pretty random and out of the blue. There hasn't been tons of pressure on you, and as far as I can see, no one's said they're going to shoot you either. So, the message looked kind've cryptic to me. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
June 23 2011 01:57 GMT
#1108
On June 23 2011 10:56 ~OpZ~ wrote: Show nested quote + On June 23 2011 10:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: A roleblock is only known to blues who get roleblocked and have active actions, so theoretically the reds could have just failed to ever role block a blue. They shoulda role blocked Hiro then...lmao...or mataza if you knew he was blue and you are mafia as they say... Didn't realize flamewheel changed RB'er for this game... Can't block a vet's life. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
June 23 2011 02:05 GMT
#1122
On June 23 2011 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote: They didn't know he was vet, right? Right? That wasn't a scum-slip, right? Right? Huh? He asked that if RoL were red and so scum knew Mataza was a vet, why didn't they just role block him? I said that vets can't be role blocked. What's the slip here? | ||
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