TL Mafia XXXIX - Page 2
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
My biggest FoS right now is on Rising_Phoenix. He hasn't been lurking, exactly, but rather making vacuous posts. On May 05 2011 06:00 Rising_Phoenix wrote: I'm sitting here hoping that something interesting happen but all I see is: *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* Also lots of finger pointing without any actual evidence. I almost say vote for the spammers so at least we can have some constructive comments. Also, the reason why my one post was unsubstantial is because I am still waiting for something to stick out. Right now all the spam looks suspicious, or at least is really annoying. Active =/= scummy. Why are you telling people to stop talking? This is not pro-town. It's pretty ironic that you're telling people to stop spamming by making an empty spam post. When you start posting content, you can tell people to stop spamming. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 05 2011 07:13 Cthsazsa wrote: Why would we vote off inactives? We should leave them be. If they are mafia, well they aren't that much of a threat to us since they're not participating. On the other hand, if they're a townie then that'll just put a crutch in us. We'll lose a townie, PLUS we'd have wasted our votes. People insisting that we vote off inactives just seems suspicious to me. What the hell is this post? Inactive players are not pro-town because they
This is either a really stupid post or a really scummy post. I honestly can't tell which. Lynching an inactive day 1 is common, because it is rare to have enough information/analysis to peg any actual scum. A lynch based off of solid analysis is always to be preferred, of course. Ultimately, town wants to get rid of all inactive players before lylo, when each vote and opinion counts, while scum wants to keep as many inactives alive as possible, because they're useless to the town and just add uncertainty. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 05 2011 08:36 Cthsazsa wrote: I don't understand. I was talking about inactive people, not lurkers. It is very hard to tell which is which. Thus, inactives must be treated as lurkers, or else lurking scum could just hide as inactives and be safe. that would be bad. The best course of action is to pressure the lurkers into posting. If they are truly inactive, they get modkilled and we move on. I'm not talking about them, i'm talking about the "posting so I don't get modkilled today" kind of poster. I consider them inactive as well. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
I'm really suspicious of Kurumi right now. Reasoning is coming momentarily (within 20 minutes) | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 05 2011 09:45 KillerSOS wrote: chaoser He has been sitting back after his initial strong posts. I think he knew he brought suspicion on himself with his original long posts. I know he is a long time player and he seems to be careful to not be in the front of any debate. If I had to vote for anyone I would vote for him atm. Chaoser has been very pro-town in his posting across the board. Being super-vocal day 1 is a sure way to get killed night one. It's the players who haven't posted any real content that we have to worry about. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
Kurumi Kurumi's posts can be divided into two categories. Useless spam, and misleading drivel, and actual content Useless spam. + Show Spoiler + On May 04 2011 22:41 Kurumi wrote: I thought I will have any heavy read by the time I am back and game starts but.. the only thing I saw was CHAOS. Saying that,while someone says this,posting some rules being in the other thread,just doing a contribution without any value I have no clue what that is even supposed to mean. Not helpful, just spammy. On May 05 2011 01:07 Kurumi wrote: Chaoser,You wouldn't make any effort to defend Yourself if they were onto something,note that Irish backed off into the shadows,while You try to do something. You have two different approaches to play. Sandroba tries to play the Town Hero,he "has" the sense! Chaos13 does not know what is going on anymore. This post makes a lot of statements without really saying anything. Spam. On May 05 2011 01:49 Kurumi wrote: Thanks Chaoser,I think I did not see that tip in Newbie thread. I wasn't too cautious,right,but even insane thought can turn out to be true. I have no idea how to reply. What does this contribute? "crazy shit can be right," so I'm not going to defend my opinion. On May 05 2011 03:13 Kurumi wrote: 13 2 6 3 2 2 13 Thanks for pointing out that I am fearful of using names,thus making my posts inconsistent,weird and often misunderstood. Which posts should I "repair" - that meaning making it totally straight and understandable? Why the hell are there numbers at the top of this posts? Rest is nonsensical. On May 05 2011 03:18 Kurumi wrote: No,I am just saying that using names all over again is unnatural for me. Fine, but not a contribution, so technically spam. On May 05 2011 03:36 Kurumi wrote: Such unlucky formatting,I had such cool line of numbers from top to the bottom. I tried to make something happen and yeah I did,but it turned out talking about me is interesting. spam. On May 05 2011 04:00 Kurumi wrote: Jackal58 Just a post. spammyspamspam On May 05 2011 04:24 Kurumi wrote: Punk,You're back! So my pre-emptive lurker vote is obsolete now! OK then, good for you! thank you for that On May 05 2011 04:50 Kurumi wrote: Remember people mentioning the numbers. Giving away Your biggest weakness might be Your biggest strenght. what? On May 05 2011 04:54 Kurumi wrote: Haha,it was cool first season,then got boring. About LOST, or some shit like that On May 05 2011 05:03 Kurumi wrote: Sorry I didn't call for mass roleclaim,that would not be mysterious and pretty cool Mafia game,eh? Nice joke, funny funny, no content. On May 05 2011 05:44 Kurumi wrote: Hello there Kenpachi,enjoy reading the thread! On May 05 2011 05:54 Kurumi wrote: Hey Jackal58,we missed You! Nice posts. I would be missing your good ones, but I never knew them. Misleading drivel. + Show Spoiler + On May 05 2011 00:56 Kurumi wrote: Drop Chaoser discussion as scum. He will be probably shot this night because he is good at Mafia and is staying really pro-town. It is good to see some lurkers waking up! I agree that Chaoser is pro-town, but shutting down analysis and suspicion on any player without suggesting a more suspicious player is not pro-town play. On May 05 2011 01:09 Kurumi wrote: Oh,also I am voting on Irish Punk. Funny how he and chaos have 13 in the end of their nicknames. I would call this spam, but it involves a vote. His reason is "he plays differently from Chaoser" Bad. On May 05 2011 01:16 Kurumi wrote: I just note that his behaviour is different from Irish_Punk's and it looks pro-town,because of trying to make party going As I said, bad reasoning. On May 05 2011 01:22 Kurumi wrote: I just find his activeness into lurking suspicious. Why would You stop contributing when You have nothing to fear of? There is a real world outside of TL. On May 05 2011 01:32 Kurumi wrote: Chaoser,did You really grab my crappy contribution posts from SC2 to Mafia forums? I did not vote because of coincidence,I just saw it. When I stared my third post I knew that it will go wrong and I will be accused of scum. Bringing more chaos into Day 1 than there was wasn't my intention. A scummy post is still scummy even if you acknowledge that it is. On May 05 2011 03:35 Kurumi wrote: 13 Eternal - his refers to Chaoser. It was pointed out though Irish_Punk13 might just started doing 2 something besides writing post here on Mafia forums,so his step back into lurker den isn't 6 actually that obvious,just a normal human activity. 3 My point is,Mafia itself would rather not start the discussion(unless it was questions helping them 2 out,like "How do You deal with Mafia claims" "What usually gives out Your identity" etc) 2 The thing that Chaoser and redtooth posted was just a mini-guide how not to fail horribly at Mafia. 13 Still it could be a smoke bomb. This is so confusing that any content that might be in this post is lost on me. what the hell do the numbers mean? On May 05 2011 04:13 Kurumi wrote: AirbladeOrange: "A dead Townie is a good Townie" I like Your style,as Cave Johnson said! Cute, but misinterpreting the post. On May 05 2011 04:33 Kurumi wrote: Numbers? What numbers? 13 2 6 3 2 2 13? They're just to cast more suspicion on me,like hey! Random numbers MUST be something! No. I just felt like typing them. My type of posting might be connected to English being my second language (the biggest thing is repeating names which I am not comfortable with,where in Polish I need to find 2347234 possibilities to avoid typing the same thing in one,even two sentences.) It was wrong to assume my thought process will apply to everyone and I understand that mistake. Just to put some emphasis: 13 2 6 3 2 2 13 is nothing,but I might get some link if You want to make them mystical,You know. Why would you post meaningless numbers? I'm fine with the explanation of why you post the way you post, but the numbers thing totally derails this post. Again, how are useless numbers beneficial to town? Actual good content. + Show Spoiler + On May 04 2011 23:07 Kurumi wrote: I don't have any problem with this post because I agree with it. Good post.Your attacks on Chaoser and redtooth are not supported by any evidence than nitpicking,yes they are posting without much value,but we are just starting off. On May 05 2011 04:15 Kurumi wrote: Seriously. Never say that dead Town is a good deal,it makes You look weird or even suspicious I'll count this so that this section has more than 1 post in it, because this is a logical statement. On May 05 2011 05:29 Kurumi wrote: Sandroba,You were the person to grab the number trick to make me suspicious. Easy lynch for scum,isn't it? I don't accuse You of being red but.. You're trying to do it the easiest way. Don't keep doing it,please. When You don't think and just go straight You might miss something. On May 05 2011 05:30 Kurumi wrote: Stop doing it,please* Grammar,the horror! I'm calling this content despite my better judgement. He's calling out sandroba for joining a bandwagon based off of faulty evidence (I think). Fair enough. On May 05 2011 06:09 Kurumi wrote: So basically I need to do something,because my fishy posting won't be a good defence for myself while I am gone. Kurumi used Excuse! Kurumi has some Excuses left! Excuse:This will be my first time doing a small analysis,so please don't beat me and lay down Your stones,pickaxes,guns or whatever You just picked up. Thanks. My thoughts on: Chaos13 Points out my weird style of posting,numbers and thinks it is huge scum tell. He is thinking on his own rails,probably not trying to doom us all. Sandroba Hero of our city! Scumhunts every post and every post he has new scum tell,amazing how he does it. Together with Chaos13 is picking on my posting. Irish_Punk13 Got on my rails or at least tries to understand what I try to tell. Points out AirbladeOrange suspicious behavior. Supposedly works for town. AirbladeOrange Wants me dead. Because dead townie is best townie,right? Since I have no contribution value I am worthless. Looks like that is not what he meant actually. Dead townie has no vote privilege! The less votes are available for town,the better for the scum! Suspicious,might be scum. Chaoser Very careful,does not like me hugging him. This is both-side reaction. Though because it is Day1 and his biggest contribution was the hint post I believe I can't decide who he is. KillerSOS Plays for fun,enjoys the game. Agreeds with the Irish_Punk13. ilovejonn Is as careful as Chaoser,has good idea who should be looked at. Kenpachi Has got this. I mean,the backup plan of course. Is onto something obviously. Overall,most of people are trying to hop on me,or AirbladeOrange for his bluff about dead townies. I know this is not SO helpful analysis that You'd hoped for,but look at top of the post. No. Don't pick up those. Please? It is about my excuse. Many of You already used them,some multiple amount of times,but I have no time to pick on it. I believe I will have time to post tomorrow after school (day ends 5:00 KST,right?) It's defensive, but it's content. I don't agree with some of it though. The Kenpachi part is BS, the ABO part is half OMGUS and half logic. Notice how the majority of his posts are spam, misinformation, or anti-town. Can you find the townie under all of this? because I can't. This guy isn't being pro-town, and in my opinion he's our best lynch for day 1. ##Vote: Kurumi + Show Spoiler + Whew, that took longer than I expected... | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 05 2011 11:15 VarpuliS wrote: Kurumi Kurumi's posts can be divided into three categories. Useless spam, and misleading drivel, and actual content So much for proofreading... | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 05 2011 11:33 KillerSOS wrote: At the rate this thread is moving, inactive means "haven't posted in the past hour". ^_^ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=28#547 | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
I'm new, this is my third game. Have I used it as an excuse? No. Excuses aren't helpful. I'm trying to help town the best that I can. My posts get disregarded as soon as I say "Hey I'm new don't listen to me." That's why i don't say it. Playing the newbie card isn't necessary. It's just going to hurt your argument. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
Cthsazsa, you've used the "they want us to waste our votes" twice now, I believe. I've got my eye on you. You didn't respond well to jackal's tunneling, and now you disregard the reason elmizzt voted for you. FoS | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 05 2011 12:58 elmizzt wrote: I don't normally, and I don't think I did in those posts? o.O Unless you misread or I typed ambiguously. Or unless you are referring to something else. Clarify please? Look at this post. Cthsazsa quotes you, responds to your post by saying: What else is there to say? He's calling me scum for no real reason. Your response is in the third person, even though he was asking about you. lol.Apparently he's trying to throw off everyone and get us to waste our day 1 votes. On May 05 2011 12:44 elmizzt wrote: It's possible, I doubt that he wants that though. More likely he was trying to see how you react to some mild pressure. But your way overreaction and attitude makes me think that a vote for you on day 1 wouldn't be wasted at all. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
The correct response to tunneling, and somebody more experienced can correct me if I'm wrong, is to respond once and then ignore it. Not get into a "yes you are" "No i'm not" argument. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 05 2011 13:12 elmizzt wrote: Oh, I interpreted his post as referring to and defending his responses to jackal, so in my posts "he" was referring to jackal. Ah, I see. nvm then, I get what you were talking about. It's past midnight, and I have classes tomorrow. I'm going to sleep now, I'll see you all tomorrow. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
Situation A: Kurumi flips scum, it is very likely that Irish is as well. We lynch Irish the next day, and we get our information, just a day later. Situation B: Kurumi flips town. Irish is probably town, we move on. The only real scumtell from Irish is noting Kurumi's "great posts" which don't exist. If Kurumi is town, then Irish is just an idiot. I'm posting from my phone, classes start soon and I probably won't have time to check the thread again until the afternoon. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
My vote's staying on him. Someone a couple pages back corrected me about my "lynching for information theory." I think it was Aidnai. Thank you, I'll keep that in mind for the future. On May 06 2011 05:15 Rising_Phoenix wrote: You know what, vote for me. I honestly can't handle so many posts and I don't have time to write something, I know I'm not contributing but I honestly thought I'd have the time to actually contribute to this but I don't. Maybe if there won't be another page of posts by the time I'm done writing this I'd be able to feel like there isn't such a huge amount of information coming in, but if you want me off I honestly don't mind right now. This looks to me like a townie getting bored. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets himself modkilled or replaced. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 06 2011 06:20 redtooth wrote: None. But the key word there isn't "townie". It's the word "plan". Could you please elaborate? His "plan" was not in any way town friendly, and sounds more like an excuse for his scummy posting earlier than an actual plan. | ||
Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 06 2011 06:24 Cthsazsa wrote: I'm still waiting for you to address him. You said in a post after this^ that he's scummy, but you didn't explain how. Instead you made an indepth post defending Irish and Kurumi. He has. Multiple times + Show Spoiler + On May 05 2011 14:48 redtooth wrote: + Show Spoiler [Post Write-Up Disclaimer] + : @ Chaoser – I just read through it again and it has sort of a sharp tone. It’s really late so I can’t be bothered to go back and make it nicer. Just know that it isn’t meant to be a personal attack on your character. Honestly I would have liked to stay quiet a little bit longer to see how it progressed but since you guys are demanding it, here goes. This essay brought to you by Redtooth, the person who got attacked the last time he made a longpost. Warning, very long: FoS: Chaoser Reason 1: The Irish Lynch Push Honestly, let’s be serious: the Irish argument is a joke. There really isn’t enough of a basis to keep pushing it and it has only wasted massive amounts of time that could have been spent doing other stuff. Obviously not many people have been convinced, even though the reasoning behind this is pretty depressing in and of itself. Back to his strategy. I initially thought that it was just a prolonged Minimalist Approach, something I assumed he was doing ever since he hopped onto my RVS vote. He seemed to have dropped it after a certain point (which was fine with me since it was getting nowhere) but Irish suddenly appeared again as top suspect in a later post making it very clear that Chaoser is still actively pursuing a lynch on Irish. Since Irish can’t be bothered to defend himself (more on that later), let’s examine Chaoser’s main arguments point-by-point on his behalf (I will paraphrase for the sake of brevity). First off, that’s not a scumtell. When two people with Ghost icons start attacking you while acting like they know what they’re doing, you pay attention. As a matter of fact, would it not have been more odd if he didn’t react the way he did? I mean who is comfortable with two “vets” pressing you off the bat, regardless of how much support there is to those presses? I’m curious as to what a normal, expected reaction would have been. I’ll admit, I was pretty surprised at how much traction Irish’s argument got. However, I wouldn’t call it a “chainsaw defense” as much as it is a desperate attempt to look like you’re scumhunting. Irish didn’t have many choices in this position as he was expected to “hunt scum” and produce new and interesting content. He couldn’t accuse himself (duh). On the other hand, you would have spun an accusation if he jumped on the Kurumi wagon. Besides those two, there literally is nothing to go off of up to that point. This scenario is somewhat less likely so I won’t hold Chaoser as accountable for these 2 points. See above. There is a sudden expectation on him to create novel contributions to the thread and this honestly seems like a very half-hearted attempt to fulfill those expectations. And you’re right it wasn’t an EBWODP. It was an EBWOP. It’s a picky counterargument to a nitpicky argument. What difference does it make? If anything, it perfectly fits his character of noobtown. You’ve made it very clear that he’s not going to slip your grasp without a serious defense. So why hasn’t he posted one? Because he’s uninterested. Scum is way more likely to fight back til the bitter end (see KillerSOS below) rather than just semi-abandoning a game. It’s not like he’s trying to lurk through it either since his bandwagon seemed to be the biggest at one point. Now you may be saying, “Hey redtooth! This looks more like a defense of Irish than a FoS on Chaoser.” Well the problem is that either Chaoser should have recognized these or he did recognize but chose to ignore them. Since he seems to be a solid player so far, I’m leaning towards the latter and that is the scummiest action exhibited by anybody in this game so far (essentially actively and knowingly promoting a lynch on obvtown). Everyone, consider the following questions as objectively as possible: Is it very possible that Irish is simply a noobtown? Yes Is it very possible that Irish’s “chainsaw defense” was actually just a noobtown analysis? Yes Is it very possible that Irish’s lack of defense is in his lack of interest in staying alive? Yes Is it very possible that Chaoser is tunneling, intentional or otherwise? Yes Reason 2: Active Lurking Town has been giving Chaoser a LOT of credit for “contributing so much”. However, upon closer examination a lot of them are either logistical posts (request to focus, poke on lurkers, answer to questions, etc), offtopic, or pushing one of his four FoS. They all look good but break them down and there is very little to be had. As shown by one of the posts quoted above, his attention seems to be spread over four people atm: Irish (primary), Kurumi, KillerSOS, Sinani. I’ve already stated why I think Irish isn’t realscum but let’s address the others as well. Kurumi is that guy. He is the prototypical hyperactive townie who expended all that energy and lost interest midway through game after being pressured. Honestly, when was the last time someone so blatantly scum actually flipped scum? It’s pretty shocking and discouraging to see Kurumi leading in votes. However, it’s a super easy bandwagon to contribute to since there is a wealth of incriminating behavior and an easy target for active lurking. The FoS on Sinani is based off of one sentence that could easily have been due to him simply not reading the thread with much detail (very much within the realm of possibility since there’s so much clutter). Another easy-to-press person that was pressed. Relatively recent development so we’ll see how it goes. KillerSOS is actually a great lead (he’s near the top of my list). However, it’s odd that both KillerSOS and Irish are on the list since they are handling the pressure in totally opposite manners (one totally passive, one full aggressive). Odd behavior isn’t always scum behavior, something he should know very well. ANOTHER easy-to-press person to press, regardless of the merit in the argument. I won’t FoS Killer for now since it wouldn’t make sense for one to be on both him and Chaoser at this point. And by having 4 people FoS’d this early, Chaoser’s also implying that he’s found over half the scum team 36 hours into the game. I don’t know if it is part of his gamestyle to just mass accuse but all it does is create unfocused chatter as attention is split between 10 suspects and lines of arguments get muddled or skimmed over. You’re a liar if you can say that it is easy to focus on what’s happening in the thread right now. Ultimately, Chaoser’s actions haven’t been enough to place a vote on him yet. But since he seems to be steadily increasing his voice in town, I suggest you guys definitely approach his statements more warily then has happened thus far. From what’s been said in the thread, it seems like he played pretty well as town the previous game but that trust shouldn’t necessarily be carried into this game. He may be a great town member but it is just as likely that he is scum. I mean it’s gotten so ridiculous that players are now making blanket threats against those who dare even challenge the great Chaoser. What’s even more surprising is nobody has even said anything about that challenge. That isn’t to say I FoS’d him just to get you guys to pay attention. I genuinely do think it is suspicious that a “vet” would pursue these weird lynches and FoS. Logistical posts are neutraltells (WHY WONT YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THIS?) as are offtopic stuff. That leaves just what I perceive to be a real subtle case of active lurking. I’ll watch how it continues to play out and I suggest the rest of town do the same. + Show Spoiler + On May 05 2011 21:42 redtooth wrote: @Chaoser - I don't see how the argument is weak or convoluted. It essentially boils down to two things:
Out of all the actions taken in the thread so far, out of all the verbal missteps and the random disappearances and the smurf conspiracy theories, those seem to be the most scummy actions so far. If you believe Irish to be mafia and have a 70% confidence (pretty high mind you) then why is it that you've partially quit your attempt to press him other then to mention in passing that he's still your top suspect. You accuse me of not focusing but here you have 4 targets set before the town with none earning your full attention. Since you seem to be half-heatedly advocating for the Kurumi lynch, if he flips green would you agree that Irish is green as well? I think Kurumi's lynch is actually even more ridiculous but that's besides the point. It's not the fact that there is a simple "chance" of these things being likely, it's the fact that there seems to be a high chance of these things happening. I've re-read their posts numerous times and it isn't a far-fetch'd thing to say that most are simply noobtown. They all act suspicious as hell, almost to the point of playing with reckless abandon and not caring about the follwup. Do these sound like scum actions to you? As for "active lynching", yes I took a very liberal approach to the definition of it. But the bottom line stays the same - every action you took so far has been extraordinarily safe. You called out the people who were easy to call out, regardless of whether they actually seem more like noobtown or not. I can literally run through the thread and call out every ranting member for missteps in word usage and have 10+ well-justified FoS by the end but that doesn't contribute to the thread. What it does do is destroy focus, as evidenced by the game thus far. Scumhunting is incredibly sexy and screams I'M TOWN. Townhunting is not nearly as sexy but just as important and something that you've generally neglected to do. Not every FoS may be a lynch threat but obviously two (Irish and Kurumi) are. And since those two look pretty noobtown, I find it extremely odd that you continue advocating for their lynch. The reason why I didn't put a vote on you yet was because, I'll admit, there isn't enough evidence to totally convince me that you are scum. Talking percentages, I'd say I'm probably around 40% sure. But that 40% is more confidence I have in you being scum than literally anybody else in the thread except maybe KillerSOS. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense at this point to think both you and Killer are scum so a vote will have to wait until I can clear one or the other. @aidnai - Then why is it that people are literally tripping over themselves to keep credit and align themselves with Chaoser? As for Irish, he obviously didn't go inactive as part of a combined scum strategy to get the heat off of him since there are no PMs. If you think Irish actually is noobscum and exposed himself to all those real tells, don't you think he would have done the noobscum followup and aggressively defend himself? (See: KillerSOS) Let's do a math exercise. Consider, as objectively as possible, the following and write down the percent chance you think of each event happening.
On the other hand, do the same for Chaoser.
This made me late for work zzz. | ||
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