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On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: Part 2: LSB’s bad logic and scumslips
Hey guys, lets just use our lynch on Barundar, once he flips red, I'll be cleared.
Ezpz.
In addition, this is the same problem with Barundar's push against Jackal58,
+ Show Spoiler +Oops, 'scumslip' I said Barundar was read
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EWBOP
On February 28 2011 02:04 LSB wrote: In addition, this is the same problem with Barundar's push against Jackal58,
He just reads too much in individual posts.
I know annul red, ezpz. I know Barundar is red. Lynch him and clear me.
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On February 27 2011 19:08 Barundar wrote: It’s day 1, there is limited information to pick from. Didn’t stop you from providing “proof” of annul of course. What’s interesting is you didn’t find Jackal’s post scummy at all. Other people did, and Darmousseh found it reasoned enough to vote for it. I still don’t know if Jackal is town or not, but you seem to do.
Only mafia know’s whos innocent and whos guilty. The rest of us only have our arguments and assumptions. Wtf are you talking about? Annul has already shot down plans and also has tunneled. What other proof do you need? There is far more than enough to convict him
Now let me show you a contradiction: if Jackal is such an awesome scumhunter, why don’t you place him as such on your list? You place him as an easy bus, yet I can’t recall jackal actually being lynched except as mafia. On the one hand you argue Jackal is a great scumhunter, on the other you argue he is an easy bus. So which one is it? Jackal is an easy bus. Case in point, TL mafia XXXVII, Barundar the red scum, is trying to bus Jackal because of his first post apologizing that he will be busy.
Why don't you do that to me? My first post is apologizing that I will be gone. Hmm... because I'm not an easy bus
Show nested quote + Contradictions are scummy because they indicate forced analysis. The thing is, when someone plays as mafia, it’s hard to do analysis because you know that the person who you are doing analysis is town, so you have to make up stuff. And contradictions come when mafia isn’t careful with their fiction writing. I completely agree. See this post.
Good Good!
Barundar's contradiction (again)
On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote:LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Show nested quote + Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks?
Oh look what you did yourself
On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness.
In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same
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On February 28 2011 02:08 deconduo wrote: @LSB Thats not much of a defense. Go lynch Barundar and once he flips red that will be my defense.
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I don't like this "I think both of them are town" argument.
Barundar is red. Lynch him.
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Idc if you think I'm scum as long as you kill Barundar. And then I'll kill another scum for you day three. We cool?
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On February 28 2011 02:47 Barundar wrote: Lynch Barundar, when he flips red it proves I'm green Fine with me.
Everyone read this ^
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On February 28 2011 02:48 why wrote: @LSB What exactly is your argument again? As far as I can tell it is "he forced analysis on Jackal to shift the lynch from annul" and now "Barundar's case on me isn't that good". You seem awful sure for that to be your evidence. He was the one who tried to redirect the lynch from annul, and this is shown as he forced analysis on Jackal.
I have a question: If Barundar is red, then why did he do analysis on Jackal rather than on icemac or gryff yesterday? Both of them had more heat on them and would have been an easier lynch than starting something on jackal. I've already explained why gryff is a harder lynch. As for iceman, well... it would be interesting if iceman was red. That could explain why annul was reluctant to lynch him.
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On February 28 2011 03:42 chaoser wrote:Think he's talk about you kev. Also, LSB, shame on you. Your whole defense has been lynch him first! he's mafia! What's wrong with that? He's mafia. I seriously don't see why that's a problem, unless of course you want the town to lose.
I'm not! when he flips red you'll see how I'm green. You claim all he's doing is WIFOM but you're doing the same by linking to old games. We can't trust "play style" analysis 100% since smart players will obviously change it up. Or not change it up. That's WIFOM too. So you agree with my response that his analysis is based on WIFOM.
Respond to his individual points please, until you do my vote will be on you. He was willing to write a fucking essay; if he was mafia trying that hard, and you're really town, you would try just as hard. So far you're not and so you scumminess is getting higher for me. I'd like to quote this post
On February 27 2011 03:46 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:18 chaoser wrote:1. Barundar attempts to redirect the lynch off of annul Wouldn't mafia, if they were trying to redirect off annul, find it easier to pick gryf to stack on? He lied multiple times, changed from no to the PMs to yes to PMs but with his own list. I mean, that's a much easier case to be made than to do it on jackal right? It doesn't make sense to try to push jackal is a viable lynch candidate for mafia when the big juicy target of gryf is there. Imo jackal is an easier lynch candidate because his posts are borderline spam (but correct spam written with a gold pen), and gryf had mods telling people to lay off speculation on who his he. In addition, Bill Murray town play is exactly like how you described, a simple link to Haunted Mafia would have killed any serious bandwagon. Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 03:12 Barundar wrote: To everyone else, I will post a full case on LSB later. He has several inconsistencies in his posts, showing that he
1) staged the annul lynch 2) tried to take more credit for a lynch than he deserved. I'm going to hold you accountable to this Show nested quote +For now I would just like to point out he doesn't actually even defend himself against my accusation. That was an accusation? This is what your points were. 1) Tried to find mafia from Annul's pre-written Goodbye post 2) Speculated that Rol must have ensured that foolishness and me are on different teams 3) Assume that Annul would let me bus him 4) Says that my scumdar was too good 5) Claim that not voting for Annul is a town tell. Do you seriously want me to respond to them? I apologize if this post was responded to.
I seriously don't see why anyone thinks the "LSB is playing too well" reasoning means I'm mafia.
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On February 28 2011 04:15 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +I'm not! when he flips red you'll see how I'm green. You claim all he's doing is WIFOM but you're doing the same by linking to old games. We can't trust "play style" analysis 100% since smart players will obviously change it up. Or not change it up. That's WIFOM too. So you agree with my response that his analysis is based on WIFOM. Yes, I think some of it is WIFOM. But the fact that he wrote a 3 post essay + the fact that you won't even consider the idea that maybe he is town makes me wary of you. Either way, the same can be said for you. If you get lynched, and you flip green, he will be suspect. He's town because he wrote a lot?
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On February 28 2011 02:15 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote:Barundar's contradiction (again)On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote:LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness.
In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference. There is a difference, and it's not what you say. They arguments are similar as both of them 1) Make assumptions on RoL's picks 2) Assume that Foolishness is mafia
There is a few differences. My support of foolishness is weak, I recongnize that the argument shouldn't go far Barundar uses this assumption as central of FOS of me. His argument is that between LSB and Foolishness, foolishness is probably town so LSB must be mafia.
In addition another difference is that I'm not accusing Barundar of being scum because of this argument. The difference is I'm pointing out that Barundar made the exact same argument and it is hypocritical of him to try to accuse me of being scum for using my argument.
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On February 28 2011 04:16 deconduo wrote: Why does everyone ignore me... Happy now? :D
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On February 28 2011 04:23 Barundar wrote: 1) annul lynch was a bus. He offered little resistance and the majority of the votes was only barely beceause they thought he was mafia. Of course annul's lynch was a bus at the end. I even agree to that.
The reason why it was a bus was because I shot down all alternatives, and so the mafia couldn't bus anyone.
You are making the flawed assumption that I was just another mafia on the bus. You are trying to figure out my actions based off what others were doing. That's a flawed form of reasoning.
In addition, seriously, LSB bussing Annul? That sounds dumb. Think of it again. If it was DocH bussing LSB that sounds reasonable, but LSB bussing Annul is impossible.
2) You try to take more credit for the lynch than what is due. Your need for medic protection on yourself alone is anti town. Considering I've been shot night one of every single game where I didn't yell out for medic protection, me yelling for medic protection is perfectly reasonable
3) Your posts so far lacks scumhunting, there is no "if"'s or "but"''s regarding allignment and consist of bad to no reasons. A pattern you have repeated since votes started stacking on you. What do you mean? I posted lots of good analysis. Do I seriously need to link them for you?
I'm sure your mafia. Why is to scummy to be sure that your mafia? Are you saying that stating my beliefs is a bad thing?
4) Your case on me is an OMGUS, that boils down to lynch me first for proof. There is no reasoning, only lynch, lynch lynch. My case on you is based on your forced analysis which is evident through your contradictions and flawed reasoning.
Boom
I wrote 3 extensive posts arguing for my case, so if you want clarification of those 4 points just read them. Bumatlarge had a nice point with the lists not saying anything of LSB's allignment that I didn't include. I've had more than 5 extensive post arguing my case and other things So if you want to make this a bottle collected game of "see who has lots of good posts", I win.
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On February 28 2011 04:33 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 04:21 LSB wrote:On February 28 2011 04:15 chaoser wrote:I'm not! when he flips red you'll see how I'm green. You claim all he's doing is WIFOM but you're doing the same by linking to old games. We can't trust "play style" analysis 100% since smart players will obviously change it up. Or not change it up. That's WIFOM too. So you agree with my response that his analysis is based on WIFOM. Yes, I think some of it is WIFOM. But the fact that he wrote a 3 post essay + the fact that you won't even consider the idea that maybe he is town makes me wary of you. Either way, the same can be said for you. If you get lynched, and you flip green, he will be suspect. He's town because he wrote a lot? No, i think he's MORE town than you because after his essay your responses have been lacking. My vote right after his case against you was: 1) me thinking jesus...no way mafia did this (illogical yes, but still, i'm sure the idea that "this isn't mafia-like" crossed many people's minds.) 2) to pressure you to see how you would respond. You didn't respond well. To be truthful, the idea that both of you were green crossed my mind many times but after your recent responses...I dunno... Seriously, I'm really not liking what you are trying to pass as arguments.
First you claim that Mafia work a lot less than town, and that Barundar posted a bunch of long posts makes him green. This is a silly argument that doesn't merit my response.
Secondly, you claim that I'm not responding to Barundar well, without actually answering any of my responses. In case you haven't noticed, I still have not seen a critisim of my responses from you. You are making a case out of nothing.
Thirdly you take a whishy washy position that looks good regardless of who gets lynched.
This isn't a direct FOS, but I don't believe your intentions are so pure.
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On February 28 2011 04:42 LastArgument wrote: This post ranks players in three catagories. 1 being the “top players” 2 being ones who have experience or shown to have it 3 being people who have less experience than 2 4 being new players.
However, if you start reading the post more carefully, you will realize it’s a post indicating how the mafia “should” hit people to avoid off the radar. Now, a mafia reading this post now knows how to properly divide hits to maximize the team from dying. It doesn’t directly say how we should be saving those people, or how to analyze them. (note: he makes a short post on “how to use this list” right after but essentially says its useless till day 4-5). That's a good thing. In case you haven't played TL Mafia XXXV, TL Mafia XXXIV, TL Mafia XXXIII. All those games were lost because mafia shot everyone in Priority two, leaving inactivity to win.
What this list is trying to accomplish is a counter to the strategy. By pointing out priority two people, it makes it costly for the mafia to shoot them.
If the Mafia starts choosing to not hit priority two people to stay off the radar. That is incredibly good for town, as it starves off an inactivity death.
This list didn’t provide people who should be dt checked, it didn’t provide a list of who should be medic protected. It instead provided a long post that doesn’t help the town as much as it helps mafia. Why make a post as town that shows activity but barely helps the town at all? This could be a lack of experience on my part, but it surprises me this post was made without further detailing or breaking down of how the town can use the information aside from “bide and wait till people die to pin the reds” Medic protects priority 1/2. DT check Priority 3 and uncatagorized. There.
In addition, I don't know if you didn't notice it, but right underneath the post was my reasons for why you should use the list http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=46#910
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Well, I think we should pick two people to set as who to lynch. We shouldn't split our votes between four people, that makes it easier for Mafia to hide behind a wall of votes.
I'm willing to lynch icemac/barundar
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On February 28 2011 06:15 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 06:10 LSB wrote: Well, I think we should pick two people to set as who to lynch. We shouldn't split our votes between four people, that makes it easier for Mafia to hide behind a wall of votes.
I'm willing to lynch icemac/barundar We are aware of your willingness. What is your unwillingness to lynch gryffindor? He always plays like this, I'd rather have a DT check used on this.
Case in point, Haunted Mafia. He tried to get people to claim to him, pretended a DT claimed to him when there was none, and then lied repeatedly, gotmodkilled and flipped town.
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