|
On January 05 2011 04:47 Barundar wrote: No point lynching darth over gc in my opinion. We get nothing from gc, hardcore lurker. We find out if role blocker is real.
Pandain claimed DT, and roleblock last night.....But we find that out tomorrow.
|
I would also probably be a good medic protection target.
|
Also, it would be nice if the medics, dt's, hatters, pm'd me. Only so I can pick your posts out and know who FoS at.
good DT checks,
Pandain, Barundar, Shockeyy, Darth. Any return of town is good.
Seraph is obviously mafia. Who's the only blatant person that CAN NOT SEEM TO GATHER VOTES and attention. Jesus.
Most of his posts have been defending himself, he hasn't role claimed to me, and the little exchange between mepak and him?
This should be priority one imo.
|
On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote: I find it kind of interesting how I and other townies are so concerned with proving our own innosence. Meapak wrote me he trusted me completely and would fight for me, and that feaked me out.
We brought it down on annul, I really don't need other proof than that. That annul rage on Pandain, just underlines a point. I trusted Pandain before this, simply for what he brought to the table and the way in which we exchanged opinions.
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. No. Shockeyy is likely mafia imo too.
|
On January 06 2011 03:20 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote: I find it kind of interesting how I and other townies are so concerned with proving our own innosence. Meapak wrote me he trusted me completely and would fight for me, and that feaked me out.
We brought it down on annul, I really don't need other proof than that. That annul rage on Pandain, just underlines a point. I trusted Pandain before this, simply for what he brought to the table and the way in which we exchanged opinions.
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. No. Shockeyy is likely mafia imo too. ...I dunno. Looking through the thread, Pandain went from defending LSB, to attacking LSB, to defending, and back to attacking....-_- I'm at a crossroads when it comes to lynching him. I definitely wouldn't mind a hatter to bomb him, if there is one.
I wouldn't trust the town in the hands of people completely unconfirmed....
|
shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me
|
On January 07 2011 01:49 Barundar wrote:People really don’t want to play this game :S More non participants posting than actual players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:40 ~OpZ~ wrote: shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me I don’t think Darth is mafia based on how uneventful yesterday’s vote was. But then again lynching the godfather was uneventful. Here are my PM’s with Seraph. He is willing to discuss with me, and puts forward his own thoughts. I don’t believe he is mafia, but please make up your own mind and post it in thread. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: About your votes, fine, your call.
I was about to go to sleep but I'll read the PMs if you want me to.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From Barundar: I'd rather let Pandain decides if he insist. He nearly got us to lynch orgolove yesterday, but I don't see my opinion on anyone as being more important than his. And I fucked up badly on RoL.
I've been pressuring Meapak in PM's, and I'm not sure I like his answer. On one hand I find he is acting completely unreasonable. On the other hand it just seems too stupid to be mafia. Do you want to give me your opinion on them if I send them to you?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From seRapH: I think he's the lesser of my two votes. Are you planning on switching off Darth or going through with supporting Pandain?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From Barundar: I'm leaning towards your votes myself. Darth is just me supporting Pandain. What do you think of meapak?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From seRapH: Why are we lynching Darth? + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: Show nested quote +Just quickly looking at the voting I think Shockey is fine, soulfire is a little suspicious and darth is a lotta suspicious. I can't agree with this at all, seems like the exact opposite to me. But if he were mafia I don't really get why he'd want Darth dead so bad unless he thought Darth was blue. And to be fair you never pressed the question, but that is something to be looking for. I've just looked over TheMango, but for now Meapak strikes me as less scummy than the following: Mr.Zergling TheMango Soulfire I'm not afraid to lynch him, especially since he's claiming green. Also why is he so confident that why is Pro-Town? There's probably some PM contact between them but the thread doesn't say anything. ~snip~[my PM’s with Meapak] Lastly Shockeyy. I have no PM’s with him, but this is what he has done in the game: Contribution: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 13:26 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ok here how it goes. Pandain claims DT and no one counter claims cause they're scared of actually getting killed by mafia. Then Pandain ask for DT's to claim so early on in the game, why? Because since no one counter claimed him, the mafia weren't able to figure out who's a blue and since Pandain is a mafia, of course he wants the blue to claim so they're easier targets... Since pandain has everyone thinking he's a DT of course no one will go after him... On January 04 2011 09:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote: And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" How is attacking the godfather a good idea? If you really think they're scum prove it. At this point they're some of the only people scum hunting in the thread. Until you start pitching in I'd say pandain and barundar are way more town then you. Because the godfather was going down either way... Might as well as jump in on the bandwagon and just play along to not be considered "scum"... On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote: And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" Tunneling Pandain: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2011 08:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Ok, I can't believe you guys are letting Pandain get away... He's asking for blues to roleclaim... He has everyone believing he's a blue, which clearly he's not imo. Why do you go asking blues to roleclaim it's pretty easy to stack hits as a Mafia member and just kill off pandain, but of course he hasn't died because he's one of them. If the mafia really wanted to kill off blues, they already know one right here. Pandain isn't a blue. Heed my warning. On January 03 2011 05:50 ShoCkeyy wrote: And I put money on it that Pandain is a mafia. So I'm going to keep sticking it to Pandain. On January 03 2011 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote: He has gotten out of two day lynches some how and I'm still confused as to how you guys are not noticing this at all. On December 30 2010 12:48 ShoCkeyy wrote: I vote for Pandain he keeps sending me messages and harassing me while im working.. I don't get home till tomorrow after 1pm, so I won't be able to keep up as much till then or be even able to post cause like I said, reading/posting on my phone is terribad. Reason for lurking: + Show Spoiler + On January 03 2011 05:49 ShoCkeyy wrote: Meh, I'm not as active cause of holidays and work. Also when ever I'm active, I always end up dying first and since I'm a townie in this game, no point of trying to start analyzing in the beginning so I can just die the next day... So I've just lurked from my phone while I worked and posted when ever I needed too... But now that the night post will happy soon, we'll see what happens. I'll start being more active since I don't have to work crazy hours and stuff. IMO this raises red flag. A green that is afraid of dieing? And what to think of this?: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote: Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote: I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote: I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote: WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones. SUMMARY 1.Contribute without spamming 2.Be active, make well thought out posts. 3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote: Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote: I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote: People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote: I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then? I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote: Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive. There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote: I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote: Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself. By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote: @1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me. On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote: @1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. On December 28 2010 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ahh i read that wrong... this is what happens when you get 2hrs of sleep and are reading/posting from a phone. _.
Anyways, fosing myself cause im an idiot. And finaly: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote: Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. … On January 07 2011 00:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: He's mafia themango... Those are some amazing PMs from Seraph. I'm voting him.
He takes stands in private? Include the time stamp like I do? RoL suggested him.
I'll also be willing to vote for you or pandain. I'm tired of everyone following your lead. Where has it gotten us?
Who do you suspect Insanious?
|
On January 06 2011 20:59 orgolove wrote: So. What are the DT checks. I'm seriously doubting some people here who trusted Pandain from the start. Every target he pointed out so far either flipped blue or green. Pandain, if you really are a DT, give us your results. And why has the mafia not hit you, not even once?
And do we even have medics? We got absolutely no medic saves. The hell? Pandain fake claimed DT.
Pandain also is not posting. He is on though. He's pming me.
|
Also, if you were roleblocked, please post in thread.
|
On January 07 2011 01:49 Barundar wrote:People really don’t want to play this game :S More non participants posting than actual players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:40 ~OpZ~ wrote: shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me I don’t think Darth is mafia based on how uneventful yesterday’s vote was. But then again lynching the godfather was uneventful. Here are my PM’s with Seraph. He is willing to discuss with me, and puts forward his own thoughts. I don’t believe he is mafia, but please make up your own mind and post it in thread. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: About your votes, fine, your call.
I was about to go to sleep but I'll read the PMs if you want me to.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From Barundar: I'd rather let Pandain decides if he insist. He nearly got us to lynch orgolove yesterday, but I don't see my opinion on anyone as being more important than his. And I fucked up badly on RoL.
I've been pressuring Meapak in PM's, and I'm not sure I like his answer. On one hand I find he is acting completely unreasonable. On the other hand it just seems too stupid to be mafia. Do you want to give me your opinion on them if I send them to you?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From seRapH: I think he's the lesser of my two votes. Are you planning on switching off Darth or going through with supporting Pandain?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From Barundar: I'm leaning towards your votes myself. Darth is just me supporting Pandain. What do you think of meapak?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From seRapH: Why are we lynching Darth? + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: Show nested quote +Just quickly looking at the voting I think Shockey is fine, soulfire is a little suspicious and darth is a lotta suspicious. I can't agree with this at all, seems like the exact opposite to me. But if he were mafia I don't really get why he'd want Darth dead so bad unless he thought Darth was blue. And to be fair you never pressed the question, but that is something to be looking for. I've just looked over TheMango, but for now Meapak strikes me as less scummy than the following: Mr.Zergling TheMango Soulfire I'm not afraid to lynch him, especially since he's claiming green. Also why is he so confident that why is Pro-Town? There's probably some PM contact between them but the thread doesn't say anything. ~snip~[my PM’s with Meapak] Lastly Shockeyy. I have no PM’s with him, but this is what he has done in the game: Contribution: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 13:26 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ok here how it goes. Pandain claims DT and no one counter claims cause they're scared of actually getting killed by mafia. Then Pandain ask for DT's to claim so early on in the game, why? Because since no one counter claimed him, the mafia weren't able to figure out who's a blue and since Pandain is a mafia, of course he wants the blue to claim so they're easier targets... Since pandain has everyone thinking he's a DT of course no one will go after him... On January 04 2011 09:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote: And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" How is attacking the godfather a good idea? If you really think they're scum prove it. At this point they're some of the only people scum hunting in the thread. Until you start pitching in I'd say pandain and barundar are way more town then you. Because the godfather was going down either way... Might as well as jump in on the bandwagon and just play along to not be considered "scum"... On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote: And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" Tunneling Pandain: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2011 08:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Ok, I can't believe you guys are letting Pandain get away... He's asking for blues to roleclaim... He has everyone believing he's a blue, which clearly he's not imo. Why do you go asking blues to roleclaim it's pretty easy to stack hits as a Mafia member and just kill off pandain, but of course he hasn't died because he's one of them. If the mafia really wanted to kill off blues, they already know one right here. Pandain isn't a blue. Heed my warning. On January 03 2011 05:50 ShoCkeyy wrote: And I put money on it that Pandain is a mafia. So I'm going to keep sticking it to Pandain. On January 03 2011 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote: He has gotten out of two day lynches some how and I'm still confused as to how you guys are not noticing this at all. On December 30 2010 12:48 ShoCkeyy wrote: I vote for Pandain he keeps sending me messages and harassing me while im working.. I don't get home till tomorrow after 1pm, so I won't be able to keep up as much till then or be even able to post cause like I said, reading/posting on my phone is terribad. Reason for lurking: + Show Spoiler + On January 03 2011 05:49 ShoCkeyy wrote: Meh, I'm not as active cause of holidays and work. Also when ever I'm active, I always end up dying first and since I'm a townie in this game, no point of trying to start analyzing in the beginning so I can just die the next day... So I've just lurked from my phone while I worked and posted when ever I needed too... But now that the night post will happy soon, we'll see what happens. I'll start being more active since I don't have to work crazy hours and stuff. IMO this raises red flag. A green that is afraid of dieing? And what to think of this?: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote: Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote: I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote: I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote: WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones. SUMMARY 1.Contribute without spamming 2.Be active, make well thought out posts. 3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote: Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote: I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote: People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote: I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then? I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote: Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive. There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote: I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote: Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself. By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote: @1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me. On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote: @1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. On December 28 2010 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote: Ahh i read that wrong... this is what happens when you get 2hrs of sleep and are reading/posting from a phone. _.
Anyways, fosing myself cause im an idiot. And finaly: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote: Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. … On January 07 2011 00:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: He's mafia themango... uneventful? Go read the vote thread. -_- Darth got saved, last minute status.
|
On January 07 2011 06:27 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote: Okay hi I'm back. First off I have some bad news. I'm going to a model UN conference and won't be back until Sunday around 5PM. So until then I can't help you scum hunt. However, there are a couple things I want to comment on/note/talk about. Good. Town can stop sheeping to your fake DT claim and actually learn to think for themselves. My ass. Your only "check" you've revealed was that DrH was green. AFTER he was killed. Good job. And surprise surprise, for two days in a row, the reds never even came close to hitting you, despite your early claim as DT - aka highest priority target. Hmmmm. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote: This indicates to me that mafia will probably keep on doing this because: 1)They know I'm DT, and this will be a succeful roleblock 2.)They might try to cast doubt on my role as DT
Sure. Just like they blocked you on day 2 and day 3, and you never claimed to be roleblocked on day 2. Right. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:But I still have good fashioned scum hunting, so I'm going to leave you with a bit of my thoughts. Let's take a look at the player list:3. SeRapH 5. Brocket 6. TheMango 7. Mr.Zergling 8. why 9. Jackal58 11. jcarlsoniv Barundar 15. ShoCkeyy 17. ilovejonn 18. Insanious 19. Orgolove 24. d3_crescentia 29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn Given that mafia KP went down after 2 died, and the fact that most likely there were 6/7(likely 6, 7 seems too big) mafia in the start, the formula for mafia kp is most likely # of mafia/2. So now there are probably either 4/5(likely 4) mafia remaining. I figure one of the best things I can do to help figure out who's still suspicious is to seperate the pro town from the rest. First off, who's pro town in my eyes: Me: Opz:Confirmed Mr. Wiggles: Posts long posts when he does, good content in them Barundar: Has been with me in a while, good reads from him on irc. In addition contributing to discussion. Insanious: Like Barundar, except not in constant contact with me. Still, very pro town in my eyes. Why: Doesn't post much, but those posts are long when he does. People who I feel are likely town, but less sure of: Jackal58 The Mango Shockeyy People Who I don't know:Soulfire- seriously need to post more Tree hugger-posts long, but hardly posts People who I think are mafia but unsure D3-hardly posts except when pressured. Seraph-RoL's main suspect, this guy has been pretty suspicious. Aside from an analysis about Soulfire, Seraph hasn't really contributed that much. People I think are mafia IloveJonn-from weak thoughts to excuses for not analyzing, from making contradictions like saying we shouldn't just follow what other people think and then vote someone based on what someone else said, for weak vote reasons, this guy is suspicious. Orgolove-Come on, it really can't still be considered "the holidays." Mr Zergling Has been playing really scummy. For example, said in beginning we should be lynching inactives and then hasn't voted for an inactive sent. Defended Annul, and did a soft attempt at keeping the bandwagon on Orgolove. Right now really the only thing saving him is that he's playing similar to his last game as town. How nice of you to put your thoughts in your list. Now we know who NOT to lynch. Hint: you contributed to four lynches so far, and you hit 2 blue and 2 green out of it. The only lynch you tried to dissuade people from - annul - we actually hit a red. Coincidence? I think not. And "holidays" my ass. I've been having positive contributions to town way more than your "analysis." You apologize about how you're going to be inactive the next few days, then claim I don't post enough? Riiight. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote: Finally, remember everyone should claim to Opz. He is confirmed, 100%. Let me repeat that. Him being vigi is the ONLY POSSIBLE way for three kills to have happened that night.
The sole remaining DT, you are the most important person right now. The people who you have found green are confirmed without a shadow of a doubt. The people who are found red you should tell Opz and then he will say so in thread so you remain safe.
Medics need to claim so more coordination. Hatters need to claim for more coordination.
There is no reason for anyone not to claim to Opz. Yeah right. If ~OpZ~ indeed was a town-aligned , then why did he hit RoL, of all people, instead of an inactive, as he originally claimed? Even if he's town-aligned, I can't trust him to be smart enough to coordinate the remaining blues to the town's benefit. You. Need. To. Stop. Talking. Your "good-old fashioned scumhunting" killed four townies, two of them blue, and led us to waste our double lynch. Your open IRC idea was shit. Utterly shit. All it did was give scum even more tools to manipulate the votes and opinions of the town. Care to hurt us any more? If, as you claim, the mafia's going to perma roleblock you, then you no longer have any value to us. So quit talking. -------------- And town, we need the double lynch again. We may have been unlucky the last time, but the reds can't possibly sneak their way out of it two times in a row. And the double lynch is our last tool remaining.
THE MATH ALONE PROVES IM TOWN ARE YOU...@_@....Honestly....I would just hope you werent that....arghh..
|
On January 07 2011 12:31 Insanious wrote: ##vote shockeyy
Can you post in thread?
|
Can you all just stfu and vote seraph.
|
On January 05 2011 17:01 Brocket wrote: Enter the OpZ.
It's true that paindain and barundar have been guiding the town, and the double lynch was pretty sub par (at least no blues were killed). Paindain's been sussing out the blues by Pm'ing everybody including myself.
What I'm trying to say is, if they really are mafia then they are currently causing damage and have enormous potential to win the game for mafia since only a couple of us are starting to point fingers at them.
This is what I think about when OpZ says that paindain and barundar are not confirmed. Which is true since we're not all DT's. I have to say they've been pretty damn good acting as townie. I still want to believe they're townie but just take what they say with a grain of salt. *yawn* Okay....Look at people pushing at Pandain....Anyway...Lemme go back to brocket votes.
|
1. LSB (Veteran, Day 1 Lynch) 2. GGQ (Townie, Night 3) 3. SeRapH (Townie, Day 4 Lynch) 4. Meapak_Ziphh (Townie, Day 3 Double Lynch) 5. Brocket (Mafia Framer, Day 4 Modkill) 6. TheMango 7. Mr.Zergling 8. why 9. Jackal58 10. annul (Mafia Godfather, Day 2 Lynch) 11. jcarlsoniv Barundar 12. Node (Townie, Night 2) 13. LunarDestiny (Townie, Night 3) 14. DoctorHelvetica (Townie, Night 1) 15. ShoCkeyy 16. RebirthOfLeGenD (Veteran, Night 2) 17. ilovejonn 18. Insanious (Veteran, Day 4 Modkill) 19. Orgolove 20. Pandain 21. bumatlarge (Townie, Night 1) 22. tree.hugger 23. GeorgeClooney (Townie, Day 3 Double Lynch) 24. d3_crescentia 25. Tevo (Mafia, Day 2 Modkill) 26. deconduo (Townie, Night 1) 27. Soulfire 28. Mr. Wiggles 29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn 30. ~OpZ~
Vote Count for Day 1
Votes for ShOckeyy (1) ShoCkeyy
Votes for Pandain (1) tree.hugger
Votes for LSB (12) annul TheMango orgolove DoctorHelvetica Meapak_Ziphh Brocket Barundar LunarDestiny bumatlarge Pandain Soulfire Mr. Wiggles
Votes for seRapH (1) RebirthOfLeGenD
Votes for annul (3) seRapH Node deconduo
Votes for why (1) Ryuu314 (darth)
Votes for ~OpZ~ (1) ilovejonn
Votes for GeorgeClooney (1) GeorgeClooney
Votes for d3_crescentia (1) d3_crescentia
Votes for Tevo (1) Tevo
Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (1) ~OpZ~
Votes for Brocket (6) Insanious LSB why Jackal58 Mr.Zergling GGQ
|
On December 29 2010 10:24 Barundar wrote: I understand you want to save yourself, but Brocket is the worst scapegoat you could possibly find. He is as scummy as Kenpachi when posting, and now he is even afk. Voting him is the same as abstaining, and really gets us nowhere.
On December 29 2010 10:16 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 10:15 LSB wrote: I did the vote count, looks like its 10 to 8.
People voting Annul. Please switch your votes to Brocket! Annul isn't going to be lynched anytime soon. People voting Brocket. Please switch your vote to LSB! :p
On December 29 2010 10:31 TheMango wrote: all I have to say is, if LSB is not mafia (which I still believe he is), then paindain + brocket may very well be. Paindain changed his mind/votes pretty fast when the attention was turned towards brocket (albeit he told me that he thinks mafia were trying to draw votes away from LSB).
On December 29 2010 10:27 Mr.Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 10:23 Insanious wrote: There is still 2 hours left to vote, its not over yet... we just need to get some people to switch from LSB to Brocket, we have 2 hours... I fail at 12/24hr conversion.........my bad Also PM from paindain: why are you voting brockett tell me here in your own words why
On December 29 2010 10:30 annul wrote: seriously the brocket vote has to be the dumbest idea possible at this stage in the game
why are we effectively giving up our day 1 vote? this is such a horrible idea it isnt even funny. what will killing brocket gain us? what information? none. none whatsoever.
taking down LSB however will give us a multitude of information.
On December 29 2010 10:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 10:31 Insanious wrote:On December 29 2010 10:24 Barundar wrote: I understand you want to save yourself, but Brocket is the worst scapegoat you could possibly find. He is as scummy as Kenpachi when posting, and now he is even afk. Voting him is the same as abstaining, and really gets us nowhere. Between Brocket and LSB, I would much much much rather Brocket dead then LSB... There really isn't another choice now due to time constraints... Annul brought us to this point, a 1 person bandwaggon is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to the town. 0 analysis can be done concerning votes, mafia can hide where ever they want to when voting for a town... You need at least 2 candidates every day for voting or it might as well just be a random.org vote. LSB has a high chance of being a blue, and killing a blue, especially early is terrible.\ Brocket is most likely green or a lurking mafia... and since there have been 4 people comming out of no where to defend Brocket it makes me think Brocket is even more red. I vehemently disagree. FIrst off, LSB doesn't have a high chance of being blue, he's claimed everything from vigi to dt, and his supposed plan which no one knows what possibly could be he refuses to tell. Furthormore now your saying that we're forced to either vote brockett or LSB, and previously you had been saying you were voting him because "he played differently." Plus right now we can find out so much from LSB's flip. I know people usually say not to lynch for information but this is a special scenario. IT's all because LSB has claimed blue, and mafia know that, or that LSB is mafia, and they're trying to swing a bandwagon onto brockett to save him. If LSB flips red- Great! We caught probably at least 3-4 scum who tried to swing the bandwagon onto Brockett, in addition to information from posting. Furthormore we caught a scum! IF LSB flips blue LSB is not DT, so we don't have to worry about that. Why? -Claimed very early to be blue, DT wouldn't have done that being most important role. Would've waited. -Revealed pms where RoL said LSB might be DT, and hinted strongly because it was the only role that could fit the plan. Why would DT be so reckless, especially when he seemingly doesn't want to claim? So we don't have to worry about losing a DT. So when, if blue, he would most vigi, then that's not even that bad of a loss. But most importantly mafia would be wanting him dead, since he's blue, and they know it. So people who voted for LSB should be looked upon with suspicion, myself included. But again I would like to stress people that LSB is 99% not blue, that he is 99% red. And I urge you to read my analysis I made of him, and realize whats happening here. Vote LSB. Stop the Bandwagon.
On December 29 2010 09:09 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 09:00 Insanious wrote: I want to make it clear that the Brocket vote is based on him posting 10+ times in the first 24 hours of pokemafia as a town, and only once in 48 hours here.
Brocket is NOT playing like he did in Pokemafia and that is fishy as he was town there... So he is something different now. Bad reason why. There are so many reasons people act differently. There can be RL issues, he's just trying something new, and just add the fact that its the holidays and he's probably on vacation. Never should town lynch a total inactive. Town needs to be going after the lurkers, not the inactives. Not only do we gain nothing from Brockett's list, but add the fact that there are better people who are either showing signs of true scum or are seeming to contribute without actually contributing, unlike Brockett who isn't doing either. Scum usually want to seem to contribute. Not to mention that just because he has a different posting style(which could just be because he's busy) is no reason to actually lynch someone when we have people like LSB who if you really don't think is scum perhaps then you should fully read my analysis . LSB knows better than to lynch someone like this, I believe you know better than to lynch someone like this.
*yawn* Pandain,s 2nd, 3rd, or 4rth post defending or soft defending brockett and instead pushing the person that claimed blue.
Just wanna point some of this out.
The Mango might actually be town...Mafia clearly would have went through great lengths to protect Brockett. Pandain PM'd people....Anyway...interesting time period.
|
On January 08 2011 20:10 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 18:29 orgolove wrote:On January 08 2011 17:15 Barundar wrote:Most likely 12 v 3 tomorrow. This means we can afford a mislynch, so at this point if it can shut the discussion up we can kill our own unopposed DT claim. It would be completely retarded ofcourse.That Brocket is mafia means the people who switched to him day 1 are most likely town. These are: why, Mr.Zergling, Mr.Wiggles, Soulfire and Jackal58. Orgolove is quickly popping up on my radar again. He was strictly opposing IRC, and so far not one person who has been on there has been mafia. Before annul got lynched, he posted: On January 02 2011 11:06 orgolove wrote: Again, as the time draws near, I can't help but notice that, just as in my case, none has stood up for annul's defense. I would think the reds would try to cover for him at least a little bit.... He is actually the only one questioning the annul lynch. He was one of the driving forces behind getting meapak lynched: On January 03 2011 14:40 orgolove wrote: One of the my votes is still on Meapak based on his highly, highly suspicious voting pattern vs annul, which he still has not fully explained. On January 04 2011 17:21 orgolove wrote: Hey. I've been busy.
First, Meapak is almost 100% scum considering his voting patterns around annul. ~snip~ But when Meapak was innocent, orgolove posted: On January 05 2011 23:00 orgolove wrote: Ugh. What pathetic idiocy. He acted so scummily as to leave us no choice, but turned out to be a town. Wow. Saying we had no choice. Would be nice for a mafia to remove doubts as to his own involvement in the lynch? On January 07 2011 06:27 orgolove wrote: ~snip~ On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote: People I think are mafia IloveJonn-from weak thoughts to excuses for not analyzing, from making contradictions like saying we shouldn't just follow what other people think and then vote someone based on what someone else said, for weak vote reasons, this guy is suspicious. Orgolove-Come on, it really can't still be considered "the holidays." Mr Zergling Has been playing really scummy. For example, said in beginning we should be lynching inactives and then hasn't voted for an inactive sent. Defended Annul, and did a soft attempt at keeping the bandwagon on Orgolove. Right now really the only thing saving him is that he's playing similar to his last game as town.
How nice of you to put your thoughts in your list. Now we know who NOT to lynch. Hint: you contributed to four lynches so far, and you hit 2 blue and 2 green out of it. The only lynch you tried to dissuade people from - annul - we actually hit a red. Coincidence? I think not. Let’s not forget who it was that actually did the only attempt of diverting the lynch... On January 08 2011 02:18 orgolove wrote: Ugh. Again. I see that we have no counter bandwagon forming vs Seraph. The reds are not worried at all about him dying. I think it points towards seraph -not- being a red. Again - I think we are following Pandain's lead into lynching another green. Why are we still trusting this fool... ~snip~ Tries to blame Pandain for the Seraph lynch. Handy if you know he isn’t guilty, and want to lynch a DT, right? And afterwards: On January 08 2011 13:53 orgolove wrote: I fucking told you. -_- Well gratz on being right on Seraph, but wrong on annul and Meapak. Just look at how Meapak acted. Right when annul hit the vote mark where his total was even with me, he immediately switched his vote from annul. It was 99% a red who first voted for each other, but then realized they might be the deciding vote so changed it when it became close. The sealing deal was reports by people that mentioned he yelled at people in the stupid IRC to stop voting for annul. Tell me, what else would any of us have thought if you had acted like this? I was 100% certain that he was red. And if I play another mafia game and see someone acting like that again, then I will have no qualms voting him as a red. You can't just lynch based on voting, the only ones knowing whos red are the mafia themselves. If it was only down to mistakes made by people, then the whole town would be mafia. It's the same with lynching Pandain. He has made a ton of mistakes and his opinion has changed way too much just before the lynch. But that alone doesn't make him mafia. He has actively contributed, he has lynched the godfather and he has an unopposed DT claim - objectively speaking he can't be mafia. Try and look at it from an outstanders point of view. What is the evidence against him really? This quote pretty much sums up what the town degenerated into yesterday: If we aren't putting reason behind our choices, and only lynch to place blame for mistakes we won't win, simple as. It's not about hurt feelings, it's about the truth we can collectively discern from the events in the course of the game.
On January 07 2011 05:35 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 20:59 orgolove wrote: So. What are the DT checks. I'm seriously doubting some people here who trusted Pandain from the start. Every target he pointed out so far either flipped blue or green. Pandain, if you really are a DT, give us your results. And why has the mafia not hit you, not even once?
And do we even have medics? We got absolutely no medic saves. The hell? Pandain fake claimed DT. Pandain also is not posting. He is on though. He's pming me. Unopposed....
|
On January 09 2011 04:49 Barundar wrote: He fake claimed it? I don't know. You don't read a confirmed townies posts?
|
On January 09 2011 06:54 Mr.Zergling wrote: Im all for getting rid of Shockeyy Why?
|
On January 08 2011 22:11 Jackal58 wrote: I'm still pushing for Pandain. On what basis?
|
|
|
|