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Day Vigilante - During the day you may type Kill: Player in the thread. That player is going to die and the day goes on. You can only shoot once.
According to the role, it looks like we will not receive confirmation that the kill went through until night. That means we have to trust that LSB will die.
There is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that Fishball is the traitor, however his behavior in thread has been surprisingly...not insane. Since LSB wants him dead, can we wait and see how LSB flips before killing him? I suspect LSB will flip town and we can vig fishball tonight.
I want to lynch deconduo. Whether or not he lied about being day vig, whether or not he 'helped' us by shooting LSB, he is not town and he has KP. Even if we could without a doubt control his KP, town showed today it doesn't have time or organization to handle the extra KP. Therefore I'm not changing my vote.
Now that LSB is most likely going to die anyway, I think we can afford to wait on BC since we'll be reducing KP by lynching Deconduo. Bottom line: lynch Deconduo, reduce non-town KP. It's a definite step in the right direction.
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wow i guess i think/type slow ignore most of that
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Yeah, we still need to lynch deconduo. Go go, we only got thirty minutes!
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Come on... we're gonna waste a lynch today when we know Deconduo is not a townie? You guys really think we'll be able to effectively utilise his KP tonight?
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It'd be nice to hear Kita confirm he wasn't roleblocked. Barring a surprise there, the only reasonable explanation for BC surviving that doesn't involve anyone being a lying scum is having a second medic protect BC for some reason. Other possibilities of course are that one of Kita and BC is lying about who they say they are.
Decon on fish (according to decon) Kita on me (according to Kita) Someone on kita (according to cubed) someone on zeks (according to Ace lol) someone on jimbo (according to jimbo)
BC: the amount of KP is actually not that unreasonable... compared to last night, we lost one (LSB), we gained one back (Kita), and then we have one extra (possibly a hidden pro-town JOAT?) All the claims can be explained by something as simple as, for example:
Decon on fish (SK #1) Kita on me (Vigi) Someone on kita (Scum KP) someone on zeks (JOAT) someone on jimbo (SK #3)
What makes less sense to me is how few people died... literally, it would have to be something insane like BC was medic saved, fish is vet and jimbo is bulletproof. Or else, one of them is the third SK?
My read of Jimbo (townie who takes himself too seriously) is definitely compatible with vet/BP, so I'll buy that.
Deconduo hitting fish is complicated, lots of possibilities. for example, -Fishball is vet, everything else is as claimed -Deconduo is scum, fishball is traitor and was converted -Fishball is scum, was saved by a scum medic who knew where the hit would be
some BP/vet claims might be able to shed light on the situation. Hold off on that until you know you have a case on someone though.
And Kita/BC is also quite interesting, but I want to hear if there's any more information from Kita, BC, or a second medic before I get into it too hard.
Last thing, there's a mod-confirmed townie out there somewhere who has PM's from zeks... It'd be nice to know who you are (one less suspect at least), and what kind of misinformation zeks might have been trying to plant. Please share
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Once again,
On January 14 2011 07:55 aidnai wrote:Here's why I think BC is scum. 1) Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 22:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: ##vote layoffrage
Heading off to work and won't be back tonight, but LoR is the safest lynch target for today. Out of myself, fishball and him we are most likely the three most experienced players, and I know i'm town, which means at least one of fishball and him is most likely red. Out of those two, LoR has given the most reasons as why he is most likely a better lynch target.
By BC's own logic, we are left with a damn good chance that either BC or fishball is red, and BC has given more reasons why he's a better lynch. ... I actually thought it was scummy of BC to use this argument, I only used it myself to see if he would disown the argument or keep with it.
On January 14 2011 14:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As you are the only one who analyzed me, I will spend the time to comment to you.
Between Fish and I, chances are one of us is red, I will agree with you there, although chances are higher that he is traitor than red, however I think fish and I can also both agree that we almost always gun for eachother in every game in some form. Still, I will give you valid point for one. ... He kept with it. BC reiterates that chances are, one of fishball/BC is probably red, and fishball is probably the traitor. So that means you're probably red, right?
On January 16 2011 05:51 kitaman27 wrote:Some points I would like to be addressed if you don't mind, BC. (I still would also like to hear from Amber about his roleblocking target and his reasons for moving off fishball in the previous lynch and from dec about his kp target so we don't overlap) Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 22:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: ##vote layoffrage
Heading off to work and won't be back tonight, but LoR is the safest lynch target for today. Out of myself, fishball and him we are most likely the three most experienced players, and I know i'm town, which means at least one of fishball and him is most likely red. Out of those two, LoR has given the most reasons as why he is most likely a better lynch target.
Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 10:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 15 2011 10:34 kitaman27 wrote: Why is everyone so satisfied with no lynch? Scum should be more afraid of dec since their kp can't hurt him.
EVERYONE SHOULD BE VOTING FOR FISHBALL
BC are you seriously going to bring up bum 30 minutes before the lynch? Why isn't your vote on traitor suspect.
Cube, if you want to clear yourself as traitor then I want your vote on fishball.
To those who are abstaining or voting for useless candidates, I will be hitting one of you with my kp if you decide to ignore the lynch. aka (cube, aidnai, Beneather , haplo, pig)
There are 30 minutes remaining. Simple, Fish is smarter to keep around atm, decon is potentially helping us. Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 10:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Fish is an intelligent player, he knows to keep alive he (if red) has to play a very dangerous game which means he has to help the town to stay alive. First, lets contrast this questionable reasoning: Rol: Possibly a traitor. Experienced player, so probably scum. Fish: Possibly a traitor. Experienced player, so great to keep around. Ulterior motive? Kitaman brings up a closely related point: BC completely forgot about his argument for lynching RoL when it comes to Fishball.
On January 16 2011 11:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Reason to keep fish around is simple. As of now, myself, fishball, and jimbo are the three people posting the most coherent posts. If nothing else the three of us see logic and when we post typically have something useful. As such, regardless of Fish's role, having someone who has to play at a certain level (and if hes traitor he has to find reds as well), he will have to help analyze briefly. ... BC's response is that Fishball is going to contribute good things to town even if he's red wtf? Contribute, let's see here, subtle misinformation and bad guidance inside the thread, leadership to the rest of the scum team outside of the thread, analysis that benefits who?
BC: Your answer to kitaman doesn't make much sense in light of your answer to me, since RoL is also an intelligent player who could have been very helpful to the town. And if you really thought it was likely that Fishball was scum/traitor like you told me, the correct move would be to push a lynch or night kill.
On the other hand, if you're scum you probably don't want people continuing along the line of reasoning that one of you three (RoL, fishball, BC) must be scum... Personally, I think it was a pretty big mistake to play that card in the first place, I wouldn't have pushed RoL's lynch that way, and I sure as hell wouldn't have stood by that line of reasoning afterwards.
BTW, I haven't heard from any experienced players about this
When someone makes a massive fuck up you FoS them, period. but this sounds pretty debatable like lynch all liars or something. I wish I had enough experience playing with you to know which side of the fence you normally sit on, but without that knowledge, I can't take this really as evidence for or against you. But personally I disagree with a FoS all mistakes policy.
Remind me how did you survive Kita's hit again? Hilarious indeed...
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Ok, so as soon as Kitaman pops in here with confirmation that he was not role blocked last night and in fact targeted BC, we'll know for a fact we got a liar between one of the two of them. I haven't looked too hard at Kita yet, I was waiting for him to confirm his role last night. Since nothing is confirmed, and I think Kita has been posting enough to analyze, time to go back and take a look.
Bum, I can't really defend myself from 'guilt by association' except by my actions, so I guess if we get BC or Kita lynched and hit a scum, will you back off then?
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On January 17 2011 03:51 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 03:28 aidnai wrote:Ok, so as soon as Kitaman pops in here with confirmation that he was not role blocked last night and in fact targeted BC, we'll know for a fact we got a liar between one of the two of them. I haven't looked too hard at Kita yet, I was waiting for him to confirm his role last night. Since nothing is confirmed, and I think Kita has been posting enough to analyze, time to go back and take a look. Bum, I can't really defend myself from 'guilt by association' except by my actions, so I guess if we get BC or Kita lynched and hit a scum, will you back off then? I already confirmed that I was role blocked a while ago. Pig, could you confirm that you were roleblocked as well? deconduo, odds are pretty likely that the zeks hit was by a SK. Did you decide to switch your target since you knew fishball would be a likely lynch? Fishball, can you confirm you were hit? If the role cop, parity cop or tracker has useful information, now would be the time to claim.
damn it, wish I had not missed that earlier...
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So, having our medic roleblock is kind of annoying... Not sure how we'll be able to use Kita's vig role safely now. :/
It sounds like Fishball is giving up, if that is the case and he is in fact traitor/scum, we should expect that he is being bussed and people that are on his wagon are not necessarily in the clear. Due to all the circumstantial evidence, it really does look like Fish must be the traitor, and most likely he's already been recruited. BC's psychoanalysis is interesting, but not as convincing to me as the other evidence that has piled up.
##Vote Fishball
Fishball, if you're town and you don't want to defend yourself, at least give us some ideas to look into once you flip green.
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Well, BC, you quoted an outdated version of the draft order which messes up your point somewhat, but yes, Bumatlarge was assigned rolecop by LSB's plan, he said that he would not be playing along with that, and now he has claimed role cop.
in the final version of the draft list, bumatlarge is number 10, not number 8.
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Regarding Bum/BC: Bum, I'm completely aware of the possibility of Fishball being bussed.
On January 17 2011 11:43 aidnai wrote: So, having our medic roleblock is kind of annoying... Not sure how we'll be able to use Kita's vig role safely now. :/
It sounds like Fishball is giving up, if that is the case and he is in fact traitor/scum, we should expect that he is being bussed and people that are on his wagon are not necessarily in the clear. Due to all the circumstantial evidence, it really does look like Fish must be the traitor, and most likely he's already been recruited. BC's psychoanalysis is interesting, but not as convincing to me as the other evidence that has piled up.
##Vote Fishball
Fishball, if you're town and you don't want to defend yourself, at least give us some ideas to look into once you flip green. And, I have also pointed out reasons why I think BC is scum, some of which have yet to be addressed by BC (maybe he doesn't find me threatening enough to warrant a response). On the other hand, I agree with his posts on deconduo and fishball. All this to say, Fishball is a solid target for today, and if BC wants to push your lynch tomorrow or whatever, we'll analyze the evidence and decide at that point. In the meantime, the real point of my post...
On January 16 2011 14:27 JimboSilvers wrote: Only have a moment but I took a hit last night. For now start looking at the people I accused. I'll be back sometime monday and can address the situation fully then.
Well, this includes me, but I'm not going to analyze myself other than to reiterate, my crappy posting day 1 was due to my other mafia game driving me crazy, and I believe I've turned it around since then. I'm gonna focus on the following post.
On January 15 2011 17:19 JimboSilvers wrote: Damn this is getting interesting. So I guess since deconduo is confirmed CC now, its unlikely we have a CPR doc unless someone was ballsy enough to pick it when it was pretty clear deconduo was going to pick it. So we might have 3 SKs unless the 4th hit last night was from a JOAT.
Deconduo should hit beneather. I'm pretty sure he's scum. Why? He's damn useless and posts only questions, one liners, doubt posts, and posts that just seems like he's trying to act. He doesn't offer any strong opinions, and offers questions on pointless information. And after he poses the questions, he never follows up and offers insight. His voting record is also laughable, he votes for LayOffRage day 1, and abstains day 2. He also has no acceptable reasoning for either of his votes.
kitaman should hit Fishball. Why? First off, this confirms kitas role and targets a troublemaker. If fishball flips traitor, then kita is confirmed innocent otherwise the hit wouldn't go through and fishball would be recruited instead. This is unlikely though, as I think Fishball is just plain scum. Hes been useless, calls out a bunch of people calling them scum with little reason. Although his play can be interpreted as "he's just having fun", he is active yet doesn't contribute. He stirs the pot when there is already chaos in the air, and doesn't do anything to actually help the town. Burn his ass.
For the third hit (CPR Doc/3rd SK), I propose zeks. This just reminds me of someone who is hiding. Said some stuff earlier about LSB's plan, announced his number, and announced that "I'll say that I'll be taking one of Alignment Cop, Tracker, Mason or Witch." Well its time for him to crawl out of your cave there, because for being an investigative role hes pretty clueless. Hes obviously not the witch. Either way, if hes any of the other roles he should state which one he is right now. Otherwise we should just shoot him. The rest of his posts have a common theme with the other above targets. Useless and insightless. He votes with flimsy reasoning on day 1, and didn't vote day 2. I was quite surprised by the zeks hit last night, I forgot that Jimbosilvers had recommended it to our unknown extra KP role. But good call on that one Jimbo... and Fishball is looking pretty good atm as well.
As for Beneather, he's been absent for 30 something hours (since the LSB day vig hit). I completely misread Beneather the last game I played with him (he was blue I thought red) so I haven't payed enough attention to him until now, but going through his posts now Jimbo's summary of his posting this game is absolutely accurate. I will go ahead and re-recommend this hit for either decon/kita tonight.
Here's smattering of his non-one-liner posts. Notice how pretty much all of these start with "But what about this..." and are always bringing up some inane possibilty such as me being traitor or copycat getting the traitor role etc. + Show Spoiler +On January 11 2011 06:49 Beneather wrote: HaploPaithan you have to have reasons on why we have you can't just blindly say something with out any reason to back up your statement. That's just basically 1 line spamming.
Why do we have to worry about CopyCat he will only copycat someone that has a good role and that he knows it for sure or he'll be just wasting his powers blindly and might get some bad role or something. The only time CopyCat will work is if people start claiming and he can just copycat that role if it's good also it would be good to see if their lying about their role. It really can be used as a Detective tool as well.
So what are you thinking that CopyCat is a bad role ? On January 11 2011 12:14 Beneather wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 12:08 bumatlarge wrote: ##Aidnai
An easy choice. If hes not mafia, then fishball's speculation loses some cred, and it would seem mroe likely he picked traitor (still waiting for layoff to post his reasons why), but if aidnai is red, there could be easy scum lynches in that little pack. It's an opportunity on 1st lynch. Doesn't happen all that often. If I'm not corrected but if Aidnai does have traitor then the Copy Cat power works and that person gets traitor as well. Do we really want to work on another traitor? Honestly I wouldn't. We have to be very careful of our first lynch if we lynch a traitor then CopyCat gets that role and we have another traitor. We really just don't want Copy Cat getting the role traitor from our first lynch. On January 11 2011 12:29 Beneather wrote: Sure we can release Deconduo but one problem... How will we know who is the CopyCat? Also if he doesn't do as we say we can just lynch him and we get rid of the dangerous CPR Doctor.
The only one I can see the pardoner being used to save someone to be lynched is if they were mafia. That is a really strong mafia role. As it saves the mafia and then they can just use their KP at night saving that person for another day. On January 11 2011 12:54 Beneather wrote: But if a townie is being lynched then doesn't that mean that the majority of the town agree that this person is scum/traitor. Really if the person does pardon them it means that person is even more of a chance of being scum. I think if the person gets pardoned we should just get our CPR Doc. to just kill him. On January 11 2011 13:02 Beneather wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 12:56 kitaman27 wrote:On January 11 2011 12:36 LSB wrote: Jackal58 should be the copycat.
But as for the pardoner, I agree that the role should be used early to prevent mafia from using it late game to pull off a lylo win. At the same time though, it can prevent a townie from being lynched. At the same time, if the copycat is scum, then pardoning the day one lynch gives the mafia the role of their choice. Either way, would like hear more from Jackal. ##Vote LayOffRage Maybe this might motivate him join the discussion. But how would they have the role of their choice if they do not know who picked what in the draft since people didn't follow the LSB's plan. If they did and got Copy Cat + Pardoner they could easily have got the role that they wanted, but luckily people didn't. On January 11 2011 13:10 Beneather wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 13:03 Pigsquirrel wrote:On January 11 2011 12:56 LSB wrote: Good point.
I'm cool with a Day 1 Pardon plan then if no good target shows up. Adding to above, LSB agrees right away with a plan that, according to the post directly above him, "then pardoning the day one lynch gives the mafia the role of their choice" It's a real gamble to pardon day 1 lynch unless we know whether or not CC is scum, or even who the copy cat is. If the CC did not pick who he was supposed to and it was taken by scum later in the draft, we are screwed if the mafia gets a hidden bonus KP. I think we need to lynch a useless (to the mafia) role on day 1 to eliminate the risk of scum getting a copy of a dangerous role. How is it a gamble to pardon? Pardoning is a scum role so if we force a pardon then they get to choose who to kill. We'll also know that the person who got pardoned is mafia and we can just use CPR Doc. on him. Also Pardoner can only use once so we don't have to worry about anymore of those. I also suggest at night that the doctors should protect the CPR Doc. On the first night so that CC doesn't get CPR Doc if he is mafia. On January 11 2011 13:16 Beneather wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 13:11 LayOffRage wrote: ##Vote: Fishball I view him most likely to be the traitor. But if he's traitor then CC gets the traitor as well then we have to deal with that again. If you think that Fishball is a traitor then maybe the next day.I really do not want to deal with another traitor. There are so many accusations on different people being the traitor I understand that we need to deal with that after this first death because CC will get traitor. On January 11 2011 13:21 Beneather wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 13:13 Pigsquirrel wrote:On January 11 2011 13:10 Beneather wrote:On January 11 2011 13:03 Pigsquirrel wrote:On January 11 2011 12:56 LSB wrote: Good point.
I'm cool with a Day 1 Pardon plan then if no good target shows up. Adding to above, LSB agrees right away with a plan that, according to the post directly above him, "then pardoning the day one lynch gives the mafia the role of their choice" It's a real gamble to pardon day 1 lynch unless we know whether or not CC is scum, or even who the copy cat is. If the CC did not pick who he was supposed to and it was taken by scum later in the draft, we are screwed if the mafia gets a hidden bonus KP. I think we need to lynch a useless (to the mafia) role on day 1 to eliminate the risk of scum getting a copy of a dangerous role. How is it a gamble to pardon? Pardoning is a scum role so if we force a pardon then they get to choose who to kill. We'll also know that the person who got pardoned is mafia and we can just use CPR Doc. on him. Also Pardoner can only use once so we don't have to worry about anymore of those. I also suggest at night that the doctors should protect the CPR Doc. On the first night so that CC doesn't get CPR Doc if he is mafia. No. I'm saying that pardoning day 1 lynch is a gamble because if CC is scum, mafia gets a free role of their choice. What do we get from pardoning day 1? Using up a scummy role's power. What's the risk: Potentially giving scum a free copy of whatever role they want. Doesn't seem worth it to me, especially considering that we can just pardon day 2 and get all the benefit without giving scum a free role. But how do they know they know who has what role? No one followed the plan. So they have no real way of knowing what they will get. Also if they hit some who has BP or protection they lose their KP but we also have to worry about the SK and his KP. Pardoning Day 2 is safer, I agree with that. [green]There is 2 KPs at night and there's a pardon on day one ? Then who's kill goes first SK or Mafia's? If it's SK then CC gets the role of whoever SK killed? As Jimbo pointed out, when you read these posts you really get the feeling that it's all an act, that he's not really interested in knowing the answers to any of these questions (since he could think through it himself if he wanted), he's just coming up with things to say that a townie might say.
On January 10 2011 10:07 Beneather wrote: Yes, I'm going to follow LSB's plan and take Bullet Proof ! :D Beneather, please claim whether you got this or not. We need to compare to Jimbo's claim (he claimed surviving a hit, did not specify vet/bulletproof).
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Actually, something that would be good to know: Ace, if a paranoid medic protects a vigilante, but the medic is killed by mafia/SK KP the same night, will the vigilante be protected and roleblocked or not?
If the answer is no, then I think cubed should certainly consider protecting Kita again. This
eiii has been absent for a while, plus I was really hoping to hear from him about parity cop results, so I went through his posts. He's played two games before, so I briefly analyzed his play in those games as well, and, to summarize, he definitely is playing within his town style. Since I ended up deciding he's probably town, I'll spoiler this so it doesn't clutter the thread, but since I put a lot of effort into this I figure I'd just post it anyway.
+ Show Spoiler +Pokemafia, scum: Eiii posted about once per 24 hours, sometimes less, until the end, when there were fewer players remaining. Post length ranged from average to extremely long. sample posts (included to show post length and frequency): + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2010 17:10 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 17:05 Gabriel wrote:On December 11 2010 16:40 jcarlsoniv wrote: Well, Gabriel...wow. This is so very ironic.
You accuse zeks because of some suspicious stuff. Ok, that's fine, I agree, he is on my "players to watch" list. But come on. What. The. Fuck. You are seriously questioning for two reasons: 1. Accusing Infund with shaky reasoning and 2. Choosing a random inactive to vote for.
No Sir. The main indicative of mafia behavior is his fail to come with an explanation about his vote or anything at all. I actually explained my vote (under a bad logic i agree) and in my first paragraph im stating that im actually going to lynch an active player. Maybe you missed the part where i asked to disregard all i said about lynching an inactve and posted why we should actually lynch an active player. holy shit Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect! On December 12 2010 11:19 Eiii wrote:Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :D I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death, but what I really don't like is this: Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote: Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing. I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Zero response to DC's attacks, just semi-claims to be blue to avoid a lynch. Obviously he takes it back a post later, but I just can't get over how disruptive a move this is. On December 13 2010 07:40 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote: You are so mafia it hurts my eyes sir. Last voter on Kenpachi too. To put it in a few words:
1 Eiii puts the pressure on Gabriel to justify a badwagon. Note that he states clearly that my reasoning for calling KENPACHI OUT is wrong based.
Yeah, I said that calling ken out as a major target so early was a bad plan because he always played spammy. I stand by that. Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote: 2 Just as Node describes: when I post about lynching zeks and why he is the best behavior lynch he comes out with two rather personal attack posts (and he didnt even cared to read about zeks analysis). Another thing to note: dodging Nodes call out. Not even a word. Period.
They were mostly attacks on your posts-- alright, they got a little personal, I'm sorry about that. But seriously, in one part of that post you outright state that you can't possibly be mafia because you explained your vote-- you admit you didn't have 'good logic' behind the vote, but hey since you offered an explaination then nothing could possibly be wrong. I don't understand this line of thinking at all, and it really put me off at the time. I don't have any defense to node's call out. Those were two posts where I just attacked you because I really, really didn't like you style of posting. I'll avoid things like that in the future. Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote: 3 Three posts later im the cleanest guy in the town. Throw me a bone here please.
Because three posts later, I went back and actually made the effort to understand your post on zeks instead of just tossing it out as another grasping-at-straws analysis post by you. I rethought my position on you-- You were being way too aggressive to be mafia, like I kind of alluded to in my 'too bad to be mafia' post, and once I stopped focusing on your questionable logic at times it looked like you were actually trying to root out mafia. Like I said-- as long as there's *actual* content for you to analyze, I think you'll keep putting out pretty good analysis posts. At the beginning, there wasn't any content and you just kind of attacked people-- *that's* what set me against you at first. Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote: 4 Remember point 1? lol now Kenpachis analysis is good (after it came from tree.hugger). Now im asking anyone to re read the actual case from treehugger and get the name of all those quotes inside his post calling Kenpachi (hint: they are mine).
I didn't use even remotely the same logic you did for calling kenpachi out, and you should know it if you've read my posts. Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote: Can you actually explain how you pass from
"(Gabriel is) Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it!" to "I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death" (by Gabriel and tree.hugger mostly)?
Sure, if you actually throw some content inbetween those two posts they make a lot more sense! At first, ken was just spamming. Gabe called him out for it. Ken always spams (or he did in salem when he was medic, at least), so it's not really a huge mafia tell in my book (for him, of course). What really tipped me off was when he semi-claimed blue at the last second when it was clear he was under significant pressure. In salem when he was about to be lynched he just busted out with 'I'M MEDIC' out of nowhere, and got his ass saved. He *was* medic, of course, but I don't have any doubt that he remembered how quickly the town opinion on him turned around in salem once he floated that piece of info. What I saw here was someone really, really afraid of getting lynched who knows that claiming blue has saved him in the past, so he goes for the same tactic again. That's the reason I voted ken-- I didn't vote because he was spammy, I didn't vote because he posts didn't have any content, I voted because considering his history in salem and that quoted post's reaction to major pressure, I thought he was trying really hard to get out of being lynched. Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote: And how you pass from: "...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O" + "holy shit: Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect!" to
"Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :D
I really didn't like your posting at first, and that stuck with me even as it got better. I explained my thought process more above. Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 05:33 DarthThienAn wrote: Complete turnaround... starts the game off saying how he thinks Kenpachi is a bad poster. Then he changes his mind because Kenpachi continues posting poorly? Not to mention he's the last vote.
Darth's post on me focuses on about me focuses on my turnaround on ken as well. I didn't lynch ken becuase his posts were spammy or bad, like both have pointed out I defended ken for being spammy and bad earlier in the game. It's specifically his reaction to pressure that got him my vote-- I don't think defending someone for doing one thing and then later lynching them for a separate thing they've done is a contradiction in the slightest. On December 14 2010 19:36 Eiii wrote: This town is just full of drama, isn't it?
Gabe, I'm having something of a love-hate relationship with you, just as you have a love-hate relationship with being useful. Look, you're very suspicious of zeks and zeks is very suspicious of you, but both of you are acting out so badly now that neither really looks any better than the other. There's almost no good that can come of this, but let's go through your post point-by-point:
ONE: Zeks has a reasonable point here. Even if you are completely 100% totally certain that zeks is mafia for whatever reasons, I don't get the feeling that the rest of us feel quite as strongly and you should respect that as long as you don't have the solid reasoning to back up such a claim. Zeks is suspcious and we certainly should be keeping an eye on him, that's for sure-- especially after he just barely missed being lynched day one, but not getting lynched doesn't make him mafia automatically. It makes him very worth looking in to, at least. We'll do that, don't worry. The more you two go back and forth fighting like this the less credible each of you get. This isn't gabe vs zeks, assuming you're aiming for a town win. Zeks is suspicious, we will keep an eye on him. If he continues to act suspicious, he's a prime lynch candidate. That's it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, you did a good job with that at least.
TWO: Good observation from zeks. Regarding hesmyrr's role, taking the cautious route here isn't a bad thing, but I don't understand what mafia would gain from claiming one-life-down vet. They don't know who the bomb hit-- if hesmyrrs is mafia and the real vet out there knows who took the hit, than all mafia's done here is out one of their members. If mewtwo actually took the hit, then he just knows who to kill when he wants to cut down mafia numbers (which will probably be pretty soon, given the way the game's going so far). Or, the only way this move doesn't hurt mafia is if they know that the bomb was on one of the already-dead townies. But whichever way, mafia has no way of knowing which situation is actually taking place! I'm inclined to say that hesmyrrs is town, but caution never hurt anyone.
THREE: Calling your arguments 'solid' and treehuggers' 'stupid' is a little self-serving, don't you think? Both arguments had decent grounds, prentending that your argument was perfect and his was shit so obviously mafia must have intervened doesn't get us anywhere and shows exactly the kind of bad attitude that makes you look suspicious.
FOUR: This is just another story about how gabe's fantastic arguments and debating skill triumphed over the pathetic jcarl on page twenty, leaving him with only an angry face and blah blah blah. This is pointless and gets us nowhere, please stop this kind of posting.
FIVE: Alright.
SIX: This is a mostly baseless attack from zeks, if I understand correctly.
SEVEN: Zeks uses my change in stance on gabe to show that the whole gabe bandwagon disappeared, when there wasn't really a good reason for the gabe bandwagon to keep going. He got votes early on because of agressive and attention-grabbing posting, then lost those votes as more suspicious people were found. I don't think that's an unreasonable shift. Gabe's response to this is, again, 'I defended every argument against me and am a fantastic debater and am not one of the crying idiots like you.' This is seriously not helpful. Good point about context, though.
EIGHT: zeks, his accusations against you amounted to a couple posts that could be taken as scummy. It wasn't much of a stretch, and there isn't much to be questioned there. Not everyone instantly bought in to gabe's *conclusion*, but his evidence spoke for itself. Gabe, how can you say zeks was never bandwagoned when he was prime candidate to be lynched for the majority of the day? And again with the 'my argument is perfect and no one has yet to stand up to it, so clearly it is entirely correct'...
...anyway, the point is: Gabriel, you clearly have the ability to strongly influence the town's focus and direction. Please start using this ability to actively hunt for scum or investigate recent events rather than abusing it to win your ego-war with zeks. Zeks is suspicious. Everyone understands that by now. By fighting like this you're hurting your reputation, you're hurting your argument, and you're hurting the town as a whole. Please look at the big picture, and put more effort in to make your posts constructive for the town as a whole instead of just for yourself. On December 15 2010 07:33 Eiii wrote: Sorry, I can't stick around for much more than just a vote today-- I've read through the thread, and zeks has yet to do anything to seem less suspicious to me. I think he's our best bet. On December 17 2010 11:44 Eiii wrote: I feel the same way as kita-- I'm following along for the time being, but I just don't know what I can contribute -_-. It's worth noting that admitting to poor play doesn't make the posts in question any less poor or scummy or whatever they are. d3 is my lynch target of choice for the time being, but it seems like all of the arguments flying around (from all sides) aren't anything more than "You're spammy! You've been lurking! This post isn't optimally helpful!" I don't know if that's the right track to be on, but it certainly doesn't feel like a helpful discussion to me. The double lynch doesn't feel like a good idea to me because I don't think we have enough good leads on scum. It's the end of salem all over again, with slightly lower stakes. On December 17 2010 19:02 Eiii wrote: I wasn't aware we were in such a situation. :S Double lynch it is! On December 19 2010 20:00 Eiii wrote: I've been lurking recently because after reading through the thread each day, I just haven't found myself with any reason to post. You guys gave me a reason this time around, though..
...because today I learned that either I'm miller or node is scum! Given how fragile the current situation is I'm more inclined to believe node is just lying and trying to throw off our double lynch to all but secure a mafia victory. DC's actions recently don't make him look 100% clean, but neither do node's-- plus, I don't think it's totally believable that a dt would be lucky enough to hit mafia twice on his first two tries. :/
On December 20 2010 06:08 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 23:45 LSB wrote:On December 19 2010 20:00 Eiii wrote: I've been lurking recently because after reading through the thread each day, I just haven't found myself with any reason to post. You guys gave me a reason this time around, though..
...because today I learned that either I'm miller or node is scum! Given how fragile the current situation is I'm more inclined to believe node is just lying and trying to throw off our double lynch to all but secure a mafia victory. DC's actions recently don't make him look 100% clean, but neither do node's-- plus, I don't think it's totally believable that a dt would be lucky enough to hit mafia twice on his first two tries. :/
What did your role PM say? Pikachu? yep That was ALL of Eiii's posts over a period of several days. Overall impression is that he avoided posting whatever little thing was on his mind and was much more deliberate about when he actually clicked post. Notable events that brought him out of hiding included being called out for lurking, or after node claimed he DT checked and found Eiii red. Though Eiii was obviously pretty involved in this game judging by the massive length of a few of his posts, he posted the bare minimum. Salem, townie: After being subbed into this game, Eiii posted about 5-10 times per day, average length short to average. Sample posts from Salem: + Show Spoiler +On December 01 2010 08:34 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 08:19 DarthThienAn wrote:On December 01 2010 07:57 Eiii wrote:On December 01 2010 07:21 Kenpachi wrote: hello Eiii. Lets watch me get lynched Hi ken. For now, I'm gonna hop on the bandwagon as well-- it seemed like pretty decent reasoning at first, and no one really pushed back until it became clear that ken was going to be lynched. Not that I'm experienced or anything, but I feel like the info we'd get if ken's red would be game-winning. If not, then that sucks, but I just haven't seen anything that really sways me to believe that ken is green. I think the only think that could sway anyone is the fact that no one has pushed against his lynch, which means mafia are bus-ing him or he's town. It's all WIFOM, so it's up to you. Yeah, this whole lynch party is based off of ghrur switching to BB from ken last minute. Between that, PM weirdness, and general unhelpful or odd behavior, I think he's our best choice. Without the ghrur switch, I don't think people would be seeing ken as anything but an annoyance. It's not a great lynch, but it's the best we've got for now. It seems like this whole thread has either been focusing on DrH's attempts at organization and pleads for roleclaims and the ghrur/ken situation. Both are important and worth discussing, but they've mostly served as huge distractions. The only reason we got ghrur was because our hatter was suspicious and got lucky (afaik)-- neither discussion has really produced anything of value. On December 01 2010 10:09 Eiii wrote: If it turns out that ken is actually medic, then he's a huge idiot. Could just have been a last-ditch attempt to save his ass, though. :/ On December 01 2010 10:19 Eiii wrote: Darth may not have been to active, but his posts were good -_- Now we have to waste even more time/resources dealing with ken however he's to be dealt with. On December 01 2010 10:25 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 10:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Ok. I'll have my DT check Kenpachi.
He first didn't even want to private claim to me, then public claims out of desperation.
I don't have to waste a DT check if a medic simply counterclaims to me or SouthRawrea (the player confirmed town aligned by a DT). That's it. It's very very very very simple. However there are many inactive players in this game and one of them vould be the medic.
If you are the medic and not Kenpachi shoot me a PM. Then I will let the town know.
If not I'll try to convince the DT to check Kenpachi who is an unlikely godfather candidate.
Now if Kenpachi and DTA are both town, then some serious reassessment of everything must be done. How confirmed is south? All we have is that he said a DT checked him. Are you saying you have more, or is this just blind (not entirely unjustified) trust? On December 01 2010 10:29 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 10:24 Kenpachi wrote: HEY WAIT I DIDNT POST THAT TO GET PEOPLE TO NOT VOTE ME I wanted people to analyze it after i died.. Either way, it saved you. You claimed medic, so you lived. On December 01 2010 10:35 Eiii wrote: DT checking ken is the best idea I guess-- if he turns out to just be a townie then we can pretty safely ignore him for the rest of the game-- he's either chaos or willing to fuck up town to save his own ass. If he's medic, he's an asset all of a sudden, and if he's mafia that's a free kill. On December 01 2010 10:48 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 10:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On December 01 2010 10:35 Eiii wrote: DT checking ken is the best idea I guess-- if he turns out to just be a townie then we can pretty safely ignore him for the rest of the game-- he's either chaos or willing to fuck up town to save his own ass. If he's medic, he's an asset all of a sudden, and if he's mafia that's a free kill. I'm more for demanding the real medic to counterclaim to me or southrawrea so we don't waste a dt check. we'll wait until the absolute last second to decide, if no one counterclaims then it's kenpachi. 13/30 players have roleclaimed to me already, it's not like you'd be putting yourself in specific danger. Why are we assuming that if there's another medic ken can't be medic? It might be a reasonable assumption but it's not something to bet a blue on. Honestly, I don't like how this is playing out. Ken has a clear lead, there's a last-second push to a townie thanks to ken's medic claim and some help from a few others, and now you're advocating that DTs shouldn't check him, because you say that another medic claiming to you proves ken isn't what he say he is. It's tough to know anything for sure in this game, but if a DT checks ken and he turns up red I'm sure something'll happen. On December 01 2010 11:32 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 10:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 01 2010 10:48 Eiii wrote:On December 01 2010 10:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On December 01 2010 10:35 Eiii wrote: DT checking ken is the best idea I guess-- if he turns out to just be a townie then we can pretty safely ignore him for the rest of the game-- he's either chaos or willing to fuck up town to save his own ass. If he's medic, he's an asset all of a sudden, and if he's mafia that's a free kill. I'm more for demanding the real medic to counterclaim to me or southrawrea so we don't waste a dt check. we'll wait until the absolute last second to decide, if no one counterclaims then it's kenpachi. 13/30 players have roleclaimed to me already, it's not like you'd be putting yourself in specific danger. Why are we assuming that if there's another medic ken can't be medic? It might be a reasonable assumption but it's not something to bet a blue on. Honestly, I don't like how this is playing out. Ken has a clear lead, there's a last-second push to a townie thanks to ken's medic claim and some help from a few others, and now you're advocating that DTs shouldn't check him, because you say that another medic claiming to you proves ken isn't what he say he is. It's tough to know anything for sure in this game, but if a DT checks ken and he turns up red I'm sure something'll happen. Well, there could be another medic, but I don't think there would be THAT many medics. A lot of people have claimed to Dr.H, so he knows a lot of roles. He knows how many medics have claimed to him and so forth. The one thing I'm worried about is how Dr.H can know to trust the claims he's gotten, especially if he has formed a town circle with some of them. An infiltrated town circle would suck. I might be behind on this or just clueless in general, but I'm more concerned with how DrH can be trusted. I know setting up a circle and doing what he does isn't scummy at all, but if he's the elder (and if he's mafia, he's the elder for sure) then he's put himself in a fantastic position to really fuck town up. On December 01 2010 11:56 Eiii wrote: I really like the idea of a mass claim-- but I think it should wait until we have someone who's 99% sure to be town. DrH has only his actions going for him, but he knows that as well as we do. Mass claiming to a mafia would, as far as I can tell, lose the game for us immediately. On December 01 2010 12:03 Eiii wrote: Oh, I assumed you meant mass claim to DrH. DrH has said a few times he has 13/30 or 12/30 or however many people claimed to him, but we only have a handful who have actually shown it in PMs or something. On December 01 2010 16:14 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 12:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i've been sharing literally everything with southrawrea and the dt. there is no information i have that they don't. Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 12:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Claimed to me: Annul Jcarls Southrawrea Kenpachi youngminii aidnai (pre-death) Pandain Chaoser Protactinium Glasse (claimed publicly) KtheZ (claimed publicly) Aeres I've claimed to DrH. Can we get all of these people to chime in, though? No one's raised a fuss so it's probably cool, but if there are any lies here they're worth looking into. A big circle like this is really really powerful, but also potentially really really dangerous. All of these posts are from a SINGLE 24 HOUR period of Salem. The main difference seeming to be that Eiii was quite free to post what was on his mind and respond to events in the thread. What we see from Eiii in this game (PYP3) is he is back to posting several times per day (~30 posts over 5 calendar days), responding to what is in the thread as he reads it. Also this post in particular On January 15 2011 19:29 Eiii wrote: I'd be willing to bet this game on the fact that there would only be two SK, personally.
Jimbo's plan seems just fine to me, as well-- zeks and beneather have been flying under the radar, and fishball has been obnoxious and unhelpful, not to mention not voting yesterday when he was clearly active. convinces me that eiii is town. No way a mafia would be okay with a plan to hit at least one mafia and the likely traitor.
list of current lurkers/inactives (these people need to post soon according to the 24 hour rule): -Kenpachi -Deconduo -Beneather -Eiii
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you're right kenpachi, I just realized that--you were definitely not an inactive. I usually open a bunch of tabs and searches and check when the last post was made, I may have mixed you up with someone else or something, sorry!
In other news, wake up everybody. No reason for 3 hours of silence in the middle of the day--we have a lynch today, and we have nightkills to discuss as well. Current voting:
Fishball: 6 votes Kenpachi Kitaman27 Amber[light] Bumatlarge BloodyC0bbler aidnai
Eiii: 0 votes
Bumatlarge
BloodyC0bbler: 1 vote Pigsquirrel
Not voting yet: deconduo, CubedIn, Haplopaithan, Eiii, Misder, Jimbosilvers, Beneather
Misder is a player I'm having a hard time reading. Most of the content-posts from Misder have been responses to fishball's 'accusations', and misder never seems current on the situation or contributing to what is actively going on...
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Amber, I noticed with your vote on fishball that you're not too excited about this lynch?
On January 17 2011 13:53 Amber[LighT] wrote: It feels like there's 8/5 scum remaining.
##vote: Fishball
He's not going to flip recruited mafia. This game is over for the town. This post does not make any sense to me. We had probably the best night for town I have ever seen, and you think we're screwed? You think Fishball is town, but you're not going to argue on his behalf and show us where the traitor is? And as for your 8-man scum team, you're one hell of a conspiracy theorist...
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On January 17 2011 19:41 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 17:25 aidnai wrote: Actually, something that would be good to know: Ace, if a paranoid medic protects a vigilante, but the medic is killed by mafia/SK KP the same night, will the vigilante be protected and roleblocked or not?
Yes. All actions always go through.
Ok, this being the case, I think Kita should have the last say whether cubed protects him or not. Kita, if you feel certain you have a scum in your radar, tell cubed not to protect you and you'll be able to get your hit in, even if you die.
If you're not as confident in your hit, I think cubed should keep protecting you. We still have deconduo's night kp tonight I believe, that's enough.
I trust Kitaman enough to not have him announcing his hit before hand. It seems entirely possible that the mafia have a medic, which would slow us down quite a bit if they knew for sure who we were hitting.
^^@fishball: Rofl it's true dude, did you see me in team mini mafia? Can't read anyone... Anyway, I'm not going to take this seriously until you flip tonight :/
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Yeah, the hilarious thing to me Fishball is that even though I'm a science major (B.S chemistry, '06) and I've done a ton of math/science, I usually get preposterously high verbal reasoning scores compared to my science scores on standardized tests and the classes I enjoyed the most were philosophy/religion/literature classes that were all about comprehension, analysis, and synthesis. Then I go play mafia and I can't read anyone lol... I've decided it's inexperience with liars and mafia psychology + most people on the forums don't really have similar thought patterns to me or see things the way I do. Stuff that's obvious to me is totally debatable to someone else, and vice-versa, and when I don't agree with anyone, it's hard to tell who's scum
oh well, back to the game...
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Hmm... Assuming Jimbo claims vet, then he's a decent alternate medic target for cubed. I'm kinda hoping he claims bullet proof though, that'd be way more fun.
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Yeah, I'm really hoping to hear from eiii and jimbo soon here...
Overall I'm disturbed by the lack of noise today. Kita, what do you think of beneather? should we have dedonduo hit him tonight?
fishball, you're right that jimbo could be scum. But in that case I really don't mind roleblocking him. I don't think we're going to target him with town KP tonight, so I'm not worried about protecting him.
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Deconduo appears just to hammer? Something feels quite definitely wrong here...
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hmm...
Well, either Deconduo is red and has no KP, or he is SK and has KP that he may or may not use for our purposes. Deconduo, I'm not going to lie, I will be pushing for your lynch tomorrow. Since you claimed SK, this is inevitable, however, if you are SK it is up to you to decide which faction (scum/town) you will assist with your final night kill.
Amber, I hope you're a little bit relieved about your conspiracy theories now at least. Do you know who you'll be roleblocking tonight? Apparently you can't roleblock pigsquirrel again, so may I suggest beneather? If you are inclined to believe that deconduo is in fact SK and will use his kill against us, you could also RB him tonight.
I'm quite sad we haven't heard anything from eiii, if he claims parity cop then we have to take a closer look at him and bumatlarge. Jimbo too T_T
BloodyC0bbler, we may not be on the best of terms, but you have offered some solid input recently. What are your opinions on night actions? Are you still focussed on Bumatlarge?
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