On November 02 2010 09:29 infinitestory wrote:Going to offer my argument against youngminii now. This is likely the antithesis to DrH's post.
by request:
An analysis of youngminii
It's interesting to note that youngminii made only one post on Day 1. It "explains" his choice for mayor (not really, since it's exactly 8 words long). He hasn't even expounded on it as of now, and he didn't respond to questioning.
Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 14:55 youngminii wrote:
I buy fishball's story. I don't buy bum's.
Two conclusions. Nothing to show how he got there. He still hasn't said anything about it, but at this point it might be moot.
I'll be honest, this post was stupid considering it was my only post for day 1, I'm not surprised I was lynched. I was tired and I had just read the role PM when I posted this and after hastily reading through the thread, I posted this in case I didn't have time to post anything later (which was what ended up happening).Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 19:50 youngminii wrote:
hi
Sorry for not having been on in a while, I've been away from a computer for a bit (did not know it was going to happen). I'll skim the thread before I say anymore.
That's fair. I'm not going to question an unexpected leave. Still, you should respond to the questions we asked on Day 1.
Fair enough. Half the questions were a "why does he only have one post" kind of thing though.Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote:
oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves:
Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway.
Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
This isn't much of a defense, actually. Basically, he says there is no way that his lynch-dodge could be a red role. Except that it was pointed out that it is actually possible for a lynch-dodging role to be red (e.g. dodge lynch the first time, like a red veteran). I agree that it's not beneficial for him to roleclaim at this point (at least not fully), but instead of using "It's not beneficial to town" as a reason, he uses "I'm obviously not red" as a reason. That's odd.
I've never seen a red role have an unlynchable role. I mean I read DrH's post and I see that there could be but at the time that was what I believed. Also, veterans cannot bypass lynches, they can only take an extra night hit.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 01:44 Pandain wrote:On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote:
oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on
Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves:
Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway.
Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone?
DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*.
Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched?
We're not asking you to roleclaim per se, we're asking you to explain why you were the lynch target, and you survived.
No comment.
Nevermind, you are correct. I misstated: The bodyguard prevents the Mayor from being hit, either during day or during night, and can't die except by Murrayitis or getting lynched.
Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway?
He keeps dodging, but he's been adamant about revealing nothing about his role so far. I wouldn't expect anything different. The question is valid, as it's a miswording from Artanis.
The less information red has about town the better imo.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:07 youngminii wrote:
Seriously Pandain? The lynch is the town's greatest weapon, you can't make scum immune to lynches without making the game horribly imbalanced.
In any case, why don't you think about it carefully before telling me to claim? If I'm invincible, no one will believe me. If I'm immune to lynches, mafia will kill me. If I'm able to manipulate something, that will make me just as suspicious as I am now.
Stop being an idiot and play the game properly. You always do this over-analytical crap which doesn't work. Go back a step and think before you post. Maybe you should start with the first post where clearly says PMs are not allowed.
Reveals that he hasn't been reading the game carefully in any way (doesn't know about bumatlarge's circle powers OR fishball's circle). Continues to claim that his role could only possibly be blue.
It's true, I skimmed about half of the day 1 posts, but I admitted that before. Just so you know, I did know about fishball's circle but not about bum's.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive?
This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away. Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer.
Maybe.
Here begins (?) his wagonmongering against Aeres. Even Glasse pointed out that there's no reason to interpret Artanis' words this way.
I probably shouldn't have said that, it was just something that popped up in my head and I decided to write it to stir some thoughts. I did add the "Maybe" at the end, like you know, "NOT A GUARANTEE" at the end of those ads.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:46 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia.
Why would you say this if you only think there are 2 bodyguards because of dcx's 'claim'?
This is legitimate. He does find an odd contradiction in Aeres' post which becomes one of the main reasons he's questioned and eventually revealed.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 10:28 youngminii wrote:
Okay I don't care what's going on right now since it doesn't seem to be anything of great substance.
Why is no one pointing their finger at Aeres? Did you not read the night post? A bodyguard died (Annul). Now according to LSB/Artanis, there's only one bodyguard. Maybe he's lying but if he is, we're still operating under the assumption that DCL softclaimed bodyguard.
So that makes 3 in total. Aeres's claim never made sense to me anyway, and the scumtells that he dropped (oh hey I'm assuming there's two bodyguards because of DCL's softclaim.. But what if DCL isn't a bodyguard? Who's the other one?). It almost looked as if Aeres was trying to gain our trust, make us lose trust in DCL and weed out any other bodyguards that may have tried to claim.
It's true that Aeres should have been under much more suspicion at this point (and indeed, we soon began questioning Aeres further). However, the scumtell he points out isn't exactly great, as a sane scum who intended to incite distrust of DC would have claimed bodyguard and acted like the only one.
His first post in a long time. LAL isn't even valid unless there's reason to believe he made that claim to deceive the town. Many people (I think Pandain and DrH both said this, which might be an only-once kind of thing) have stated that lying can be beneficial to the town.
Fair enough, I don't like lies though.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:14 youngminii wrote:
Pandain, slow down. Stop posting. Stop spamming the thread with long but useless information.
DrH, stop replying to his 'arguments'. You'll just detract from other, more important issues.
At this point, he starts attacking Pandain's arguments as spam. No doubt Pandain gets very worked up and the back-and-forth is ... length, but the argumentation isn't contentless.
I like Pandain, I do. I don't like the way he posts sometimes, just as I know some people don't like the way I post. I'm allowed to make my opinions public.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:17 youngminii wrote:
Sure that's important. The arguments being put forward (mainly by Pandain) are not important. They are useless, misguided and nothing will be brought up out of them. The only thing they might be able to do is convince some people to vote for DrH without any conclusive evidence.
Focus on Aeres. In case you don't know, LAL = Lynch All Liars.
Focus on Aeres? Why is Aeres' revelation of lying more conclusive than the several contradictions Pandain pointed out? At this point, I'm worried he's reading selectively, and he seems to be actively distracting the town from DrH and putting attention on Aeres.
I don't consider them contradictions. He's just going over the same points over and over ("you said you could prove yourself 100% but now you can't because of reasons x y z which I don't trust so you're scum") and I thought it was getting very tiresome/useless.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote:
You don't fake a roleclaim to confuse mafia. You will only end up confusing town, especially if you do it early in the game. Everyone knows this.
Even if there was the small chance that he's telling the truth, he deserves to be killed because of the simple fact that he lied and confused town. His lie and DrH's 'lie' are completely different things. This type of play is discouraged and he should be killed off for it, Bill Murray used to do it a lot to the great dismay of everyone.
LAL
This is untrue. A player who plays badly or in a discouraged way is not necessarily red. He's just not an asset to town. But we don't lynch to get rid of just anybody. We must lynch to get rid of REDS. So far, nobody has shown decisively that Aeres lied to deceive the town.
I dunno about you but if there were no reds up for lynch, I'd lynch the bad player. At the moment there's no one that looks scummier than Aeres and the same was true for the time of that post.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 13:06 Misder wrote:
I'm going to bring this up again, why do you think mafia chose to kill annul? Do you think they found about him being the bodygaurd? Cause I don't see another reason why mafia would kill him. He didn't make any amazingly good post that would screw mafia over did he?
The only real reason I can think of is he played extremely well in Haunted Mafia (carried us to victory). Maybe they saw him as a threat.
That's fair. I didn't play in Haunted Mafia, so I wouldn't know.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:13 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote:
Still that is the best way for him to use his role if he is telling the truth now, I just am not sure where to criticize his confession. LAL or believe that it was an honest mistake? Kind of a dumb play for scum so I am inclined to believe him.
I've been thinking about this for a while now.
Mafia use a chatroom or something similar as an efficient tool for chatting. Often times the mods of the game join the chatroom to oversee what's happening. So at the point where Aeres had already roleclaimed the second bodyguard (after Annul) a lot of people were asking Artanis whether or not he made lies up. Artanis replied that he would not give an outright lie. This would tell us there is only one bodyguard (unless I'm missing something) which essentially outs Aeres as a liar. So I'm thinking Artanis probably gave Aeres a heads up that he was going to say what he said about the lies beforehand so that Aeres could get a chance to redeem himself a little bit by admitting his lie. ie. he was backed into a corner with no more options.
I'm probably horribly wrong on this though, heh.
good god, and you're trying to lesson us on what's unlikely and hypothetical, what's concrete and conclusive.
hahahahhahahaShow nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:15 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 13:06 DCLXVI wrote:
So the potential doctor is risking saving a "confirmed" blue vs losing himself as well. Unless someone provides me with an good enough reason I will not fully roleclaim
You're going to die anyway. Unless the mafia are allowed to move the hit?
Assuming Node is telling the truth, the hit is decided at the beginning of the day.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 13:19 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 13:16 Nemesis wrote:
I don't know why there are a good amount of people lynching Aeres. Aeres basically roleclaimed to take a hit incase DC was actually bodyguard. And if he isn't lying about his role, that is basically the best thing he can do with it.
Also, what benefit could roleclaiming as bodyguard give mafia really?
Trust? Too much relaxation? As scum they could put us into a state of 'oh hey the Mayor has a bodyguard, he won't die, we don't need a doctor to protect him' if we think he's still got an active bodyguard.
I mean, who the hell would actually go to the trouble of making an entire 'Cruiseship Captain' role by themself? Looks like it was looked over and peer reviewed by an entire team of people imo.
The original Cruiseship Captain Crap:
On November 01 2010 04:12 Aeres wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay, since it seems that the Doc's position as Mayor is in jeopardy, I'm going to put some interesting info out there.
On October 31 2010 10:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Further news I forgot to put in the night post: Due to budget cuts, we have only managed to purchase one bodyguard for the Mayor.
Artanis lied.
There are
two Bodyguards, not one. I don't know who the first one is (I suspect it's DC), but
I am the second one.I was going to play dumb about my role of Bodyguard until DC screwed up. I dunno if he really is the other Bodyguard, but if he is, I feel like if he was killed, then the Mafia, upon learning that there is a second Bodyguard (due to a failed hit on Mayor), would start hitting the most outspoken townspeople in lieu of the Mayor. Since I am in fact one of the more outspoken people in this topic, I was at risk of being "tapped", so to speak.
I would also like to note that my normal role greatly assists my ability to act as a Bodyguard. Since Bodyguards block hits on the Mayor, killing them makes the Mayor vulnerable. My role is designed to increase my longevity as long as possible.
My role is called the "Cruiseship Captain". I am eligible to PM a mod in order to set sail for the ocean and leave town for the night, thus becoming immune to any and all night actions (positive and negative alike, including roleblocks and DT checks). I am not permitted to set sail on consecutive nights.
Because of this mechanic, I can survive on my own for a short while. Having a Medic tend to me will not be necessary for the first few nights. Once my role has been exhausted of uses (I do not know how many times I can set sail in this game, only that it is more than once), Medics are more than welcome to assist me.
Also, please keep in mind that my role has an additional function that I am not presently willing to reveal.
Yeah, this is all great, Aeres, but now you sound mighty suspicious to me!Well, yes, I cannot deny that I seem fishy (pardon the pun, I
am a Cruiseship Captain, after all). I also imagine it does not help my case that setting sail makes me immune to DT checks. I assure you all, however, that I am working in the interests of the town. Believe me, I'd rather not cause suspicion when it isn't warranted, but DC's possibly slip-up forced my hand.
The mafia could also put us into a state of "as soon as someone is discovered as lying, lynch." He also makes a very interesting comment, that Aeres doesn't seem to have made up his role -> He must have made it up and then had a "team of people" peer review it. He's really finding the most outlandish ways to paint Aeres as red.
It may be outlandish. I don't think that makes me scum though.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 14:05 youngminii wrote:
Well then we should kill Aeres and find out, no? ^_^
This is just WRONG. Killing someone to find out their alignment is not what we lynch for.
It was a bit of a joke post (hence the ^_^) but I shouldn't have posted that in the first place. What I should have posted was "If there's no one that sounds scummier than Aeres right now, we should lynch him and see what he flips, then we can figure out what to do/who to lynch based on his alignment".Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 14:50 youngminii wrote:
I cannot think of these situations you refer to but I'm about a hundred percent sure that a softclaim that was vague at best (which turned out to not be a claim) at basically the beginning of the game does not warrant a roleclaim that not only claims the bodyguard role but an extra Cruiseship Captain role.
Oh, let's not forget the fact that he said that the mods lied about the number of bodyguard roles too.
This is fair. It makes sense with his alibi, but that doesn't mean it isn't suspicious.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 15:08 youngminii wrote:
Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone.
This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones.
This is true and fair.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 15:18 youngminii wrote:
Oh right. There were quite a few. Even I thought the mods were lying because they never said anything about it.
This is also true and fair.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 22:24 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 20:18 Coagulation wrote:
the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy.
Actually I'm just waiting for a counter argument. There's only so much I can say by myself, it takes two to create a discussion.
I would recommend you defend yourself. If you don't, probably nobody will. YOU should create the counter argument.
I meant counter argument from Aeres about the argument against him.Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 22:25 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 22:24 NB wrote:
very interesting that the elder vote has been used again? Could it be that there is some insight that our DTs has connection with the elder and the vote is 100% correct? :D
Interesting theory. We should keep this in mind, perhaps?
That might be a bit of a stretch. I doubt there are three circles (aside from the mafia), so the DT and Elder would have to be in either bum's circle or fishball's circle. Remember, fishball only has 3 people in his circle, including himself.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 23:50 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 22:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I'm not going to quote YM directly since he seems to be active (wow..).
Why you so active? Day 1 you were hiding in the back not making many waves. Now you want to go after someone who has probably made a "newbie" mistake as though he's just stolen all of the cookies from the cookie jar.
Look at your arguments, and look at other arguments. You're really gunning for someone who we don't really know enough about. And you're kinda throwing random discussion out. Sad to say this is typical of your "pro-town" play. It's also worth noting that we know you're not "just a townie" since you would usually play quiet until you're lynched, making yourself completely useless. How useful your being should determine your alignment...
I apologise, I can try be more inactive just for you. What a great argument you have there. I've already said I was afk for basically all of day 1, are you seriously saying you can't see that?
Probably made a 'newbie' mistake? It's a pretty huge mistake/scumtell if you looked at it carefully, I don't see why you're letting the cookie thief get away without even a slap on the wrist.
I look at my arguments and then I look at the argument I threw out. Pandain and DrH going at it about how DrH has no way of proving he's innocent. Is this argument constructive? No, it will bring nothing new to the table. No analysis, except maybe Pandain's overeagerness of going for DrH. My arguments are designed to punish the liar, the person who got caught red handed in his 'one man hero attempt to save the bodyguard'. I'm still waiting for the counterargument and it's not coming. So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and gun him.
I wasn't aware I had a style of being quiet until I'm lynched if I was just a townie. If you could direct me to a game where I did this, please do. Ditto for my typical 'pro-town' play. Oh yeah, how is it worth nothing I'm not 'just a townie'? You realise there are no 'just a townies' in this game, right? Or are you that inactive?
I'd appreciate it if you stopped pulling idiotic arguments out. Thank you very much,
Those arguments are not idiotic. We don't know enough about Aeres to declare him as scum. If you are waiting for a counterargument against yourself, maybe you should produce it. That second part is the main thing I find wrong with this post.
Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 07:46 youngminii wrote:
Interesting bandwagon. I would defend myself but.. I don't feel the need to.
My vote's gonna stick with Aeres, pretty sure my vote on him is justified. I dunno why there are so many people suddenly jumping towards me. Anyway, what the hell DrH?
This continues to make 0 sense. Why would you not feel the need to defend yourself?
Fine, fine, I'm defending myself.OK. I apologize for missing posts (I know I missed one, but I can't find it >____>)
Youngminii has been very concerned with Aeres and getting Aeres lynched without evidence. It seems either scummy or evident of a DT who doesn't know how to play and is martyring himself. Except, how many DTs can dodge lynches? >__>
Youngminii adamantly refuses to defend himself. I can't possibly imagine what that means, but if anybody wants to supply a theory, I REALLY want to hear it.