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On August 21 2010 21:40 zeks wrote: Radfield: "If Prince of Darkness gets used, then we have a sure-fire lynch." DTA: "Prince of Darkness is a huge role to designate, because it forces mafia to never use it, unless it's endgame or unless they want to be revealed."
how will prince of darkness l be revealed after using his power? i thought the power is activated through secret PM Which is why, if we know who has it, it's a "sure-fire lynch" as Radfield said. I'm trying to say it's extremely important that we know where PoD is.
On August 21 2010 22:11 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 20:46 Radfield wrote:On August 21 2010 19:50 Bill Murray wrote: JeeJee: 1 DTA: 2 rastaban: 3 chaoser:4 LSB: 5 Bill: 6 Hesmyrr: 7 zeks: 8 (unless he changed) rastaban: 9 Radfield: 10 johnnyspazz: 11 Pandain: 12
citi.zen, vx70GTOJudgexv, SouthRawrea, SiNiquity, ~OpZ~ , Fishball, BrownBear, Divinek I just realized why this is a very, very bad plan if everyone doesn't go along with it. By everyone publicly stating their numbers, it makes it extremely easy for mafia to somwhat rig the draft to their liking. After looking at the plan I proposed, mafia realize that it would be very beneficial for them to hold the number 3 draft spot(prince of darkness). Lets also say that LSB (the 5th pick) is mafia. So the mafia would have two other players double up numbers with rastaban and chaoser, and voila, mafia have pick number 3. Of course, if everyone declares their numbers, we can easily track who didn't land in the proper spots, who doubled up, and who benefited from the new draft order. We could pinpoint mafia fairly easy. BUT, if some people don't tell us their numbers, or RNG, or don't check the thread again, then it becomes much more difficult to pinpoint the mafia, and lets them manipulate the draft as they see fit. This gives us two options: we put pressure on the last 8 players to reveal their numbers, or we scrap the plan and all resend our numbers. At this point it makes sense to simply carry on with our number picking. I hope this makes sense to the folks who haven't sent in numbers yet. I am fine with your plan to prioritize some roles. However, you are not confirmed town right now. You should not make up the list with exactly who gets what role: as you yourself said, it makes no difference if a particular townie picks first or last. Please drop the public number claiming. Wait, I don't see the problem. The point of us deciding what number gets what role now is that we're picking the roles BEFORE we know who gets them. Thus, mafia can't "manufacture" getting the roles, right?
On August 22 2010 00:21 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 20:32 Radfield wrote:
#1 Comp Vig #2 Bad Santa #3 Prince of Darkness
So we take the three most dangerous roles as the first 3 picks. We use Comp Vig as the double lynch, we use Bad Santa solely for it's investigative powers, and not it's KP. Prince of Darkness never gets used. If Prince of Darkness gets used, then we have a sure-fire lynch. If extra KP from the bad santa is getting used(which should be obvious since we should never have 4 deaths in a night if the Joat holds his shot appropriately), then we lynch the bad santa. Either way though, this keeps vital mafia roles in known hands.
We should NOT pick bad santa for second. They can still get 2 kills from bad santa if they pick themselves on one of the list. Actually @ Ace, if Bad Santa dies and he's still on list, then does he still get to kill a second person.
Are you trying to say kill from the grave or something?
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On August 22 2010 00:33 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 23:17 Radfield wrote:On August 21 2010 21:40 zeks wrote: Radfield: "If Prince of Darkness gets used, then we have a sure-fire lynch." DTA: "Prince of Darkness is a huge role to designate, because it forces mafia to never use it, unless it's endgame or unless they want to be revealed."
how will prince of darkness l be revealed after using his power? i thought the power is activated through secret PM The idea was that a particular pick(in this case #3) takes the Prince of Darkness. That way we know where it is. If it ever gets used, we lynch whoever is pick #3 I am fine with your plan to prioritize some roles.
However, you are not confirmed town right now. You should not make up the list with exactly who gets what role: as you yourself said, it makes no difference if a particular townie picks first or last.
Please drop the public number claiming. You're right. We can't have both public numbers, and a plan to organize picks. If I'm going to decide which roles are getting picked at what draft number(no one else is really weighing in too much on it), then we can't have public picks. Given that I'm unconfirmed, I could manipulate the pick order to benefit the mafia. This means there is no way any town player can have faith that I'm not manipulating the order, so there's no reason for anyone to have faith in the role picking plan. Given that it's far more important for the town to have a role picking plan, then to have public numbers, we should drop the public numbers, and all just RNG a number(Or privately pick a number). It's also important that we hammer out the details of the plan before the draft order becomes public, because at that point we run into the same problem. I will be RNGing my pick, I recommend others do the same. The benefits of publicly claiming numbers was always very minimal to town anyways. Heck no, we need to do this to ensure 1. We get good roles 2. we get comp vigi. The only good thing about your plan is really that it makes it so mafia is unsure as to who will pick what. doesn't really matter, as people are claiming roles. Again, i don't see how you being mafia will even hurt it, as your plan is solid and only hurts the mafia. Again, we have bullet bill. If someone picks a non designated role, their mafia. You have no control over who picks what, only what they pick. And as long as the town agrees, we have no worries over that. Also, fun suscipision time.(just for bragging rights in case i'm right.) + Show Spoiler +Out of these 3, one is innocent, 50% chance one is mafia, and 1 is mafia. Divinek Citizen Darth Just speculation fella's. Can you explain why controlling the draft order helps us?
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On August 22 2010 00:45 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 00:43 DarthThienAn wrote:On August 22 2010 00:33 Pandain wrote:On August 21 2010 23:17 Radfield wrote:On August 21 2010 21:40 zeks wrote: Radfield: "If Prince of Darkness gets used, then we have a sure-fire lynch." DTA: "Prince of Darkness is a huge role to designate, because it forces mafia to never use it, unless it's endgame or unless they want to be revealed."
how will prince of darkness l be revealed after using his power? i thought the power is activated through secret PM The idea was that a particular pick(in this case #3) takes the Prince of Darkness. That way we know where it is. If it ever gets used, we lynch whoever is pick #3 I am fine with your plan to prioritize some roles.
However, you are not confirmed town right now. You should not make up the list with exactly who gets what role: as you yourself said, it makes no difference if a particular townie picks first or last.
Please drop the public number claiming. You're right. We can't have both public numbers, and a plan to organize picks. If I'm going to decide which roles are getting picked at what draft number(no one else is really weighing in too much on it), then we can't have public picks. Given that I'm unconfirmed, I could manipulate the pick order to benefit the mafia. This means there is no way any town player can have faith that I'm not manipulating the order, so there's no reason for anyone to have faith in the role picking plan. Given that it's far more important for the town to have a role picking plan, then to have public numbers, we should drop the public numbers, and all just RNG a number(Or privately pick a number). It's also important that we hammer out the details of the plan before the draft order becomes public, because at that point we run into the same problem. I will be RNGing my pick, I recommend others do the same. The benefits of publicly claiming numbers was always very minimal to town anyways. Heck no, we need to do this to ensure 1. We get good roles 2. we get comp vigi. The only good thing about your plan is really that it makes it so mafia is unsure as to who will pick what. doesn't really matter, as people are claiming roles. Again, i don't see how you being mafia will even hurt it, as your plan is solid and only hurts the mafia. Again, we have bullet bill. If someone picks a non designated role, their mafia. You have no control over who picks what, only what they pick. And as long as the town agrees, we have no worries over that. Also, fun suscipision time.(just for bragging rights in case i'm right.) + Show Spoiler +Out of these 3, one is innocent, 50% chance one is mafia, and 1 is mafia. Divinek Citizen Darth Just speculation fella's. Can you explain why controlling the draft order helps us? If mafia tries to screw with the draft order and try to get the roles they want, then we can tell who screwed with it because they will have picked the same number as anothe rperson, thereby being pushed back in the draft order. A good way of ensuring we get good roles. Ideally, mafia will be forced to pick town aligned roles, but they will probably try to get mafia-aligned roles from 13-onwards. That's why we have role cop and bullet bill which will allow us to identify them and pin them as mafia.
Assume plan goes smoothly. We have whoever dibs 1-5 presumably taking the best roles for town. Are we organizing that, or are we telling those people "pick whatever you think is best?"
There is no "we get good roles" if a mafia player is in the top 5 list, which is likely, simply based on probability. And all it takes for mafia to get CV is for them to be #1. I'm assuming that whoever is #1 is taking the CV because it's obviously the most desirable for all parties/to deny. I just think Radfield's plan makes more sense.
Again, why does picking the players who are what number in the draft order benefit us? I understand that publicly claiming and holding people to those numbers benefits us in a style similar to "lynch all liars." So essentially, you're trying to force mafia to pick the number that they say, and to stay with that - that doesn't necessarily hurt/help them. It's not always in the interest of the mafia to double up with anyone..
Not to mention that I don't have faith in everyone claiming, and so, townies will fall under suspicion if they double up b/c they didn't read the thread.
On August 22 2010 00:51 Pandain wrote: Darth disagree with statements or claim now. I already have a huge FoS on you, don't make it more so. I've claimed for awhile now. Shouldn't you know that if you're so supportive of this plan? AND I disagree.
On August 22 2010 02:06 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 01:52 SouthRawrea wrote: My numbas haz been changed my fellows. Regardless of anything Radfield says, any role except traitor would be beneficial to town as it either takes a role away from mafia or gets us a good role. Priorities are the only thing we can concentrate on rather than pro-town or pro-mafia roles. There really isn't a way in which we can secure the first picks for ourself either as some have already mentioned. SK and Mafia can just pick an earlier number without us knowing. We cannot let mafia know both the draft order and the order of our choosing. If they do, they become familiar with the roles of certain people which will allow them to more easily pin-point the good townie roles. (Essentially: Revealing part of our hand makes it easier for blue snipes. It's like Blackjack where you kinda get an idea of how well the other player is doing based on the card that he has flipped) I'm sorry, but almost everything here in my opinion is wrong and illogical. 1. The mafia does NOT want us to know the draft order and order of our choosing. It's more of a benefit for town than it is for mafia. 2.The bolded sentence is also wrong. As I have said, if mafia tries to sneak in an earlier member than we can tell so(and know they're mafia) because they will go to the bottom of the draft order. I agree however that it makes it SOMEWHAT easier for blue snipes, but with radfields percentage chance even that is negated(aka 50% chance of bullet proof or vet, meaning they will waste a hit > ) Better arguments, or claim now. Growing impatient as time grows short, forgive me.
? Everyone will know the draft order.
It is true that we can catch mafia/sk if they try to double up with someone early on, but other than that, I don't really see the advantages to this plan. All it takes is them not doubling up/sticking to what they claim.
Are you suggesting combining the two plans? I guess that makes more sense.
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On August 22 2010 02:27 Pandain wrote:I never said making my own plan, I am going along with Radfield's plan. The only difference is we publically claim the number's we're picking. 1-12 have already been picked(i think, almost all of them) Show nested quote +It is true that we can catch mafia/sk if they try to double up with someone early on, but other than that, I don't really see the advantages to this plan. All it takes is them not doubling up/sticking to what they claim.
YES! Meaning that mafia will either have to take pro town roles, which don't help them in either case. but if they want to have mafia roles than they will have to double up > . Good for town. Also, forgive me. I was probably looking for darth when I checked it and didn't see you there. I now see "DTA". Yay That makes a lot more sense then. I was assuming that you were saying use ONLY this number plan and then do whatever for picks... The only other thing on my mind now is that, though this plan lets us find scum that double up, it also allows scum to know what everyone is picking. But hmm... I guess if they sacrifice a mafia player by doubling up in order to get a role, that's actually worth it.
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So like, [1][3]. back to sc2, sorry guys, I'm addicted.
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Some random thoughts from the last page:
SR, why would you pick traitor in the first place? Unless you were playing anti-town on purpose. That's like the only role I can't imagine anyone actually playing for their (current) side, picking.
Divinek shot BM? Hmm. On the one hand, I'm glad that BM's gone (haven't really been overly interested with him playing lol). On the other hand, it's an easy move for mafia to make. Sure it attracts attention, but if you're confident you can pass it off as "Guys, it's just BM," then it's win/win for mafia (unless they have copycat or something, in which case Divinek would have shot rastaban). I mean, this is all WIFOM, but still.
I also want to hear what Hesmyrr has to say o.o. zeks is implying he didn't pick traitor, and I can't imagine the top 3 picking traitor.
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##Vote DarthThienAn - placeholder ofc.
I'm confused - why do we believe SR again?
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On August 27 2010 12:12 SouthRawrea wrote: Only way to prove I was telling the truth. So are you still saying that there is a traitor in the top 5 (minus Hesmyrr)?
On August 27 2010 12:30 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 11:59 zeks wrote: ^ why would you ask for a lynch...
what are you trying to pull If you look at it from different angles, let's assume SR is the Traitor (or Traitor wannabe in this case, doesn't matter), he would want the Mafia to win right? Even if he dies, he still gets to waste 2 lynches. It could all be personal alignment, and has nothing to do with his actual role; There have been Green Townies in previous games that have tried to mess with Town. Another reason why he is asking to be lynched, is because this was part of the "original plan" if Hesmyrr ended up as a Vanilla Townie. It could also be guilt. Also Hesmyrr's last post brings up a good point, but Radfield has been mainly pro-town so far (draft plan), even if he is faking it. Although the Alignment Cop seldom being brought up and was at the bottom of the list seems kind of odd. I'm not particularly pointing fingers at anyone, but more so restating some stuff that was already brought up. Right now, I think we should focus more on what to do "tonight". What do you mean by traitor wannabe? Just a townie who hates his allegiance? Isn't really playing to win, but eh, that's not up to me.
Other than that, SR as a traitor still wins if the mafia win. To be honest, I think he's got to have more up his sleeve if he is a traitor. A day 1 mislynch is common enough that he need not interfere. I guess this kind of play wouldn't have worked later, but I'm sure he could have come up with something to lead a mislynch day 2/3.
To be honest, I never understood why we believed SR. For anyone to pick traitor is beyond my comprehension. SK can't pick it. Mafia might pick it as a cover (?) but there are definitely better roles that they would want. A real "pro-town" townie playing toward his win condition wouldn't pick it either...
On August 27 2010 12:35 Pandain wrote: Some notes/thoughts Of all the people, Hesmyrr is the only one who might've been traitor in my eyes. Even then I doubted it. I just don't see why any of the people who picked traitor would. Rastaban is confirmed CV of course now. So it's either zeks, chaoser, or LSB. Chaoser's bad santa, a very interesting role in my eyes, LSB is Prince of Darkness, no doubts there. Though perhaps he may have had grievances about not being able to use it(still, its for good of town so why would he pick traitor?)
Zeks therefore would seem most likely yet even then I'm hesitant because he had the most chance of getting a good role(rolecop). It just seems to me that none of these people would pick traitor. Which leads to the suspicion that again, SR is lying. However, we're going to lynch him afterwards.
Or are we? for what if SR is vengeful player,as some people have brought up. Yet we can't just rely on the CV to do it, as mafia roleblocker is definitely going to roleblock him if SR is traitor/mafia.They might even roleblock him just so then we have to lynch him to be sure. I also think its a surefire bet that mafia have roleblocker as well.
Therefore, I say we lynch SR tommorow, even though he could be VP.
As you can see, I am totally confuzzled.
Medics: Don't protect either of 1-5.(especially 2-5). Why? Mafia isn't going to target any of those people because that would just give town a greater chance of finding the traitor. I would say protect 7-10 as that seems to be the most liklihood of being an important blue role there.
PoD is a great cover for picking another role. Why? No one ever expects you to use it. So unless the town wants to rolecheck and out the role cop in the process, your secret is safe. Safe with BS. I'm not sure what I think about zeks's position, though he could always just say "I'm not rolecop, I got a defensive role" if he's forced to claim. So really, any of those people could be traitor because they wouldn't ever be expected to do anything.
On the other hand, they're high in the draft - why go for traitor? Well, I don't really know why anyone would ever go for traitor, so that doesn't really make any sense to me.
I just realized - someone said we weren't lynching SR because he might be Vengeful player. He's not SK, because SK's trying to live, and vengeful player is thus, an irrelevant role. He's not mafia, because a 1 for 1 trade for a vanilla townie is retarded - even a 1 for 2 trade is still bad. The last option is townie, in which case, why would his being vengeful player be a bad thing? Vengeful player = town kp in that case, we lynch him and ask him to lynch someone who we're suspicious of. And since he's town, he'll listen to us (hopefully). That said, I'm not sure why we listened to SR at all...
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@JeeJee: I think bum is trying to be Chez.
@Opz: I'm fine with BB checking me. Sure, I haven't been posting as much as I usually do, but I'll suffer the consequences if necessary. Shame that this isn't a PM game - I guess our investigative roles can all come out at the same time (whenever we decide is best) with several results and be like "Bam, bam, bam, mafia!" and we can work from there? Tracker should check either chaoser/LSB imo. Assuming they followed the plan, they have the best mafia roles - they shouldn't be visiting anyone tonight, so if they do, you know what's up.
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Hmm.
Let's assume zeks is traitor and was recruited by a mafia night action. Assuming no one counterclaims taking a hit later today, mafia targeted him with their night kill - like someone said, win/win in regard to zeks being #5 and possible traitor.
What are the advantages of him coming forward about being hit? Well, it buys him credibility (posting almost immediately), and it's a pro-town thing to claim after being hit by mafia (it was obviously a mafia hit, unless, again, a counterclaim later today).
What are the disadvantages? People know he took a hit, and therefore, he's thrust into the spotlight. Why would he claim if he could've just slipped by while the town raged about someone not coming forward? Stay in the shadows, etc. To me, it makes a lot more sense for him not to say anything, and to stay under the radar and all that. So I really doubt that he's the traitor.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that mafia most likely don't have roleblocker - zeks would've claimed "roleblocked" as well if that was the case, correct? It makes the most sense for mafia to roleblock + night hit the same person, just in case of bulletproof. Especially with only 1 KP, it makes missing a hit/failing a hit extremely costly for them. This is assuming that zeks isn't a traitor lying to us of course.
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On August 28 2010 18:36 Radfield wrote: Nice to have you back Darth. Who do you think is scummy? Who do you think we should lynch today? It's mostly because I'm done with the campaign and most of the easy achievements =p. Still playing, but a bit less now I guess. The new shiny smell has drifted away.
I'm still a little confused about everything surrounding SR. First of all, there's the mental block that I have to get through about why anyone would pick traitor. That was the ONLY role I imagined that no one would take. I guess there's that train of thought that makes people take it (simply because they want a role) and to make the game more "epic."
Part of me wants to think SR is lying. But it's not a smart move if he's mafia or SK (unless he's got some brilliant plan up his sleeve). And if he's town, he shouldn't have taken traitor in the first place! But, assuming that he is town (because he wouldn't play so stupidly if he was mafia/SK), let's move forward.
(The reason why I bring this up is because I think SR is scummy -_-. But not necessarily scum, unfortunately)
Regarding other potential scum...
Divinek, I have decided, is most likely town (I may have said otherwise before, but I realized recently who his target was xD). He shot BM, which, while it is an easy town kill, is also disadvantageous to the mafia - this is the part I just realized. Without BM, the thread is much less likely to become a billion pages of spam, and the town is much more likely to get things done. So for that reason, despite his hitting town, I think Divinek is pro-town.
Other than that, I'm not sure who's scum - but I do think that we should lynch either chaoser or LSB today, if we don't get any definite scum through roles or something. If chaoser was mafia, tonight would be the first night possible for him to use a hit. Actually, since the mafia missed their hit, there's a much lower chance that (assuming chaoser mafia) the Bad Santa role can be used tonight. Unless they got lucky with their list and have the SK and Subversion on there. That said, maybe lynch LSB? This is also advantageous in getting rid of the traitor.
On August 28 2010 23:56 Pandain wrote: Interesting point about the roleblock. If anyone was roleblocked, please say so now. You do find out that you were roleblocked, correct? This will help us pin down mafia roles.
Also, please comment on JeeJee and your perspective on him from previous games/this one.
Have I ever played with JeeJee? O_O. Maybe in RotK? Other than that, I don't really remember - he's never really stuck out to me. =X. But I guess that mean he's fairly old, right?
I'll go through his posts since he only has a couple dozen:
On August 25 2010 15:12 JeeJee wrote: meh could be worse at least we don't have to worry about CC now This one sticks out to me because... it's borderline "gloating." Context is obviously after BM flipped.
On August 26 2010 10:52 JeeJee wrote: ##vote:hesmyrr
to be frank, being told to pick a role just to confirm others have picked it probably doesn't sound like too great of an idea. i can see a "fuck that i'm going traitor" reaction following that I don't really like his justification for this vote... but I guess he was bandwagon-ing.
On August 28 2010 00:18 JeeJee wrote: i do find it odd that sr is asking himself to be lynched just because he guessed the traitor placement wrong. if anything, he should get cv'd, but if he flips vanilla town, we wouldn't be any further along and i don't think a mafia would just ask for a selflynch (wifom blah blah)
otoh is traitor hunting even that high of a priority? unless mafia kp goes up to 2 with that extra player, its not like it's monumental enough to drop everything else imo This is true... if we can find a mafia, then that's great. But we KNOW there's a traitor in the top 4 (it's 4 now right?), so why not deal with that first? This, of course, assuming SR vanilla townie...
He has more recent posts, but I'll go through them as I go through the thread I guess. Overall, my opinion of JeeJee is that he's suspicious, but nothing to jump up and down about so far.
On August 29 2010 01:20 chaoser wrote: And I'm totally for lynching South. Or getting him CV-ed. He gave out that he didn't get traitor, we should have lynched him first to confirm that indeed traitor got taken above him. Right now we're operating on the assumption that it was taken because of what he said, there's no real backing behind it. I feel like there should at least be one mafia on top 6 though. However, the top three CV, Bad Santa, and PoD can all be controlled very easily. CV is lynched if he doesn't follow town's words. PoD is lynched if he uses double night (lets not get to the point where if he is mafia, using this wins them the game) And me, I guess I just have my word that as soon as I get the ability to hit, I'll inform everyone of my list and it's kinda like a mini list check. So I take it nothing interesting happened last night for you >>. Finding the SK night 1 would've been really nice. hmm.
On August 29 2010 01:28 chaoser wrote: rastaban <- can be asked to kill someone to confirm (if he confirmed already?) chaoser <-Saying I'm Bad Santa him out, will give out my list and reasoning behind it all if asked LSB <- No real way to confirm he's PoD in a pro-town fashion Hesmyrr <-vanilla townie (Was suppose to try to pick PoD, CV, or BS) zeks <-Very possible is traitor. Either he needs to claim role and we test him while protecting him or we lynch him outright. SouthRawrea <--says someone above him took traitor Eh, I lean toward zeks being town. And Hesmyrr claimed CV->Vanilla which clears rastaban. Which leaves you and LSB as the prime targets for traitor.
On August 29 2010 02:38 bumatlarge wrote: Look at pandain trying to play down my awesome, OPZ speaks truth. Yeah, but was that claim really necessary? =/.
On August 29 2010 02:39 Radfield wrote:Hmm. Lets look at this a little closer. Going into last night, mafia had a few options. Obviously they want to use their abilities to try and pick up the potential traitor. The traitor is in one of 4 spots. 2,3,5,6. If we assume that the mafia only picked up red roles, and didn't risk getting vanilla by going after townie roles, then the only role they have with a night action is roleblocker. If I'm mafia, I would roleblock zeks, and target someone else. I wouldn't roleblock zeks, and then try to NK him. Roleblocking zeks is great, because if he's traitor you pick him up, if he's town(50% role cop) then you block his power. Also, you avoid the potential of him being the meth man and blowing yourself up. The only real reason I can see the mafia targeting zeks with a NK, is if they don't have the roleblocker. Just to be clear here zeks, you were not roleblocked, correct? My guess is, if the mafia don't have the roleblocker, the SK does, which is a scary thought, but means that a mafia likely got vanilla trying for it. Or the mafia avoided the red roles to try and blend in against the role cop. All that aside, who is our likely traitor/red in the top 6. I'm inclined to believe Southrawrea at the moment. He looks bad for going after the traitor role, but after he tried for it and failed, it makes total sense that he would claim it in the thread. That story makes more sense to me, and is more believable, than him being a mafia and playing the way he has, with some grand scheme to delay us or use vengeful player etc. Personally, I think zeks is likely the traitor, and I think it likely that he got picked up last night. More likely than the others at least. I believe there is an easy way to mainly clear zeks in my eyes. He roleclaims. At pick #5, zeks would risk a lot by lying about his roleclaim. He stated he followed the plan, although he actually contradicted himself: First he very clearly states what he did Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 10:42 zeks wrote: i used random.org went exactly with this: #5 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role(Vet, Meth Man, or Bulletproof. 33% chance of each)
1-50 rolecop 50-67 vet 67-83 bulletproof 83-100 methman
just sayin, i'm hoping everyone below me follows the plan as well. Then 12 hours later, he states that he actually went with a different set-up?? Show nested quote +On August 26 2010 00:33 zeks wrote: you did go with radfield's list?
if everything went according to that then the people who picked before you: rastaban - CV chaoser - Bad Santa LSB - PoD Hesmyrr - said he was picking anti-town role (if i remember correctly) Me - role cop / copy cat / defensive role (33/33/33)
i know u shouldn't be announcing the role but this could be a place to start
Oops. That's a bit odd. Care to clear up for us which one you actually went with Zeks? Even if that was an honest mistake(uh huh), lets look at what a roleclaim would mean. Zeks is either a role cop, a defensive role, or maybe the copy cat(?). Anything he claims is at a risk to double with someone below him. Fishball is a 50% role cop. 3 players below zeks are 50% defensive role, and another 2 are 25% defensive role. Copy Cat is testable since presumably he had to mason up with someone, so that person could vouch for him(with no risk to the other person). Either way, it forces zeks(who I believe to be the traitor) to take a risk, where we could immediately pin him. There is potential that a mafia member has the role cop or defensive role, which would allow zeks to make an uncontested role claim, but at least this gives us a chance. - If zeks claims rolecop, then he checks someone and reveals the result. Town would vote on whom he would check. He could also reveal his last nights check as a way of clearing himself, but presumably if he was the rolecop he would have checked spots 2 or 3, which is obvious.
- If zeks claims defensive role, we have no way of double checking, but can only hope he collides with someone below him.
- If zeks claims Copy Cat then it's an easy confirmation.
Thoughts? Please keep in mind that the top three players all would run a 33% risk of immediately being found out by hesmyrr if they chose traitor. Also note that in my eyes Occam's Razor would lean towards Southrawrea telling the truth(it's less risky and less complicated). Zeks is also in the position where him taking traitor hurts the town and helps the mafia at the same time, making it extra advantageous to take traitor. I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I think we should lynch zeks. Zeks flipping traitor gives us an excellent paper trail as well, and I have what I think is a great CV suggestion if he does indeed flip red. Hmm. I'll agree with the beginning of this post ^^. Mafia unlikely to have RB, potentially SK has it/maybe a town member has it/maybe no one has it.
The bolded quote is very interesting though. Why would he be 33% copycat? I don't remember that being in the plan. I thought it was 50% RC/50% defensive.
In the interest of getting the traitor ASAP, I don't mind zeks claiming. I personally think he's town, but the quicker we resolve this, the better. The SK bought us some extra time, which is nice ^^.
On August 29 2010 03:20 Pandain wrote: Speaking of which, I feel like it's time to say something. This either gives town more information, or more importantly leaves scum unsure who is who.
I did not pick mason, even though I did originally.
I changed it n.n YOU LIED! lol.
On August 29 2010 04:17 LSB wrote: I didn't really consider Vet, because Bulletproof is so much more attractive at a role than Vet. Vet has +1 life, but Bulletproof is invincible! (somewhat at least).
But that does complicate what Zeks will have to claim, increasing his chances of messing up if he is SK/Traitor. Y'all should stop laying out his logically safe claims before he claims -__-.
On August 29 2010 04:41 zeks wrote: Radfield: I went with the 33/33/33 role cop / copy cat / defensive role because there was mention that copycat should be picked earlier. I truthfully randomed my role.
Something that I've discovered
SR #6 below me is assumed vanilla town, Subversion at #7 was vanilla mafia
Which means Subversion could've overlaped with 1. rastaban CV 2. chaoser Bad Santa/traitor 3. LSB PoD/traitor 5. me RC/CC/Defensive role/traitor
Likelihood of Subversion picking CV next to nothing
Bad Santa or PoD Don't see why Subversion will pick those either.
Traitor: He's scum so he wouldn't pick traitor.
me: RC/CC/Defensive Role Subversion likely overlapped with me and since Subversion is dead then it is likely that scum would know what my role is...
Unless Subversion overlapped with SouthRawrea, then that means South never picked traitor in the beginning - which doesn't make sense because South would be a townie with a role but lied about being a traitor
Thus conclusion: mafia knows my role and wants me dead by lynch since they couldn't finish the job last night
Which is why I'm not claiming because they will call me out on it.
Subversion admitted somewhere that he didn't follow the plan, didn't he? So all three of the top roles are potential picks for him. Not to mention the possibility of him not picking at all?
Why would you not claim? If mafia know what you are, and they counterclaim you, supposed we lynch you. You flip (your role). We lynch whoever counterclaimed next, and bag our second mafia ezpz. 1 for 1 trade sounds good to me.
On August 29 2010 04:44 LSB wrote: Okay, so the Mafia already knows your role. Why aren't you telling us?
Are you worried the Mafia is going to fake claim? If that happens, we can easily kill the Mafia. Are you hiding something? Also, this lol.
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Yeah, zeks is either SK or traitor imo. I'd like to hear more from him though.
##Vote zeks
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On August 29 2010 09:26 bumatlarge wrote: Look at darth trying to downplay what i did. How could I not have claimed without sealing that deal? SK will die (hopefully) because of me. And declaring people as town is FoS in my book, Ive seen and done it all too often. Hell call anyone scum, but watch what you say about clean people.
I dont really need medic protection unless we plan something, oh what kill are we missing? If I die kill darth, divine, pandain. YEAH THATS RIGHT KILL EM. ? At the time of your post, it didn't make sense for you to claim like you did. Especially since you were trying to clear zeks as an innocent, when he's either SK or traitor. You watched zeks and saw 4 people visit him. You assumed it was mafia, doctor, role cop, and some other role, when it was just mafia (Ace hadn't clarified at the time). So what did you accomplish? Aside from outting yourself, all you said was, "zeks was visited by 4 people." What happened as a result of that is great, but it's not something you had planned, and so from that perspective, the claim wasn't effective.
@zeks:
1. How did scum know you were role cop? I guess if you're assuming that Subversion went for role cop. When he could've just as easily gone for any of the top 3 picks, any other role, or not picked at all. 2. Well, I mean, if you're not traitor and SR isn't lying, it's pretty obvious that the traitor is 2 or 3. I too think LSB is more likely traitor though. 3. Let's say you're role cop. Mafia hit you. You survived. How? Explain this to me ^^, Mr. SK/Traitor. 4a. You consider yourself more a threat to the scum... why? Aside from potentially killing one of them (which didn't happen last PYP I don't think, so congrats on your hit), the SK helps the mafia by bringing the town numbers down quicker, doesn't he? So why would scum want to get rid of you? b. It's all a conspiracy ^^.
So let me get this straight: you're claiming Town Role Cop?
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On August 29 2010 12:40 zeks wrote: Oops I quoted the whole thing including my own comments. Yes, I'm a Town Role cop. Then how did you survive?
Only options are traitor and SK. K, bye.
On August 29 2010 12:45 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 12:35 rastaban wrote: ##Vote Zeks
Nice catch on him being serial killer. The earlier he dies the more time we have to catch mafia.
Also, I haven't seen any votes yet for who I should hit tonight so Let me know what you all think.
Personally I think I should shoot SR, but only if Zeks doesn't flip traitor.
SR is the best bet, stick to the traitor removal plan. It is really tricky to lynch him during the day (cause he could be vengeful player) If SR is actually vanilla town, we'll kill choaser tomorrow, and we get the traitor. But what if zeks flips town? (I'll make a larger post if he is) The only leak I can see is Bum. But we did make the assumption that their are 4 mafia. Fair assumption since zeks wasn't even sure if he was protected, right? ^^.
On August 29 2010 12:54 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 12:30 DarthThienAn wrote:On August 29 2010 09:26 bumatlarge wrote: Look at darth trying to downplay what i did. How could I not have claimed without sealing that deal? SK will die (hopefully) because of me. And declaring people as town is FoS in my book, Ive seen and done it all too often. Hell call anyone scum, but watch what you say about clean people.
I dont really need medic protection unless we plan something, oh what kill are we missing? If I die kill darth, divine, pandain. YEAH THATS RIGHT KILL EM. ? At the time of your post, it didn't make sense for you to claim like you did. Especially since you were trying to clear zeks as an innocent, when he's either SK or traitor. You watched zeks and saw 4 people visit him. You assumed it was mafia, doctor, role cop, and some other role, when it was just mafia (Ace hadn't clarified at the time). So what did you accomplish? Aside from outting yourself, all you said was, "zeks was visited by 4 people." What happened as a result of that is great, but it's not something you had planned, and so from that perspective, the claim wasn't effective. Why not? We then could have specific roles to choose from to do certain things, and know our blues werent complete flukes. We could call one the "zeks doctor" to protect so and so. "person who tracked/checked/othered zeks" could be bidden to do such and such. Sure it would be incovenient to have had roles overlap on zeks, but i think I was obligated to inform the town regardless. Plus, I think everyone was convinced watcher was useless. Now mafia can decide to hit me or not, while originally I was an 'unlikely blue'. They waste a shot on me, we can threaten to protect me, or both factions will ignore me. Stop trying to pin shit on me. What I did was justified scum. 4 mafias my ass, had to let that one slip gracefully didnt ya. Eh, yea. I suppose since everyone assumed watcher was useless, it was a fair claim. I forgot about about that part. Why are you being so defensive? I'm not trying to do anything to you. I was just saying that I didn't think a claim at that time was the smartest move - you're the one taking this so hard.
And are we really going to keep talk about that? By all means, lynch me, because I assumed that the game was pretty much the same, when it IS pretty much the same. I skipped down to the roles, because in my opinion, that's the only thing that has actually changed.
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On August 29 2010 13:10 zeks wrote: Pandain are you joking? I hope so. -__-
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On August 31 2010 01:05 chaoser wrote: Can I ask why SR isn't dead yet? He claimed he picked traitor, said zek or hess was it. Both of them were not. Isn't is easier to kill SR to see if he was lying rather than to kill/take out the 5 people infront of him? Well, considering we have a one in two chance now... I'd rather take my chances because it'd take two kills worst case scenario anyway.
Who are we CVing tonight? I recommend LSB, I'm not sure if that was concretely decided yet.
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On September 01 2010 09:54 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 09:49 SouthRawrea wrote: EBWOP Pandain remove your damn PARDON. You're not helping save me at all nor are you benefiting town. Just wait till Ace comes back. He can confirm. You should be happy South Happy that you're taking away the town's lynch? o.O. Well, I guess from SR's perspective, if he's vanilla town, then he should be happy. But idk. In general, I don't think you're helping the town. Now we have to worry about both you and SR being mafia.
I don't understand how you went from this post:
On September 01 2010 09:43 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 09:35 SouthRawrea wrote: LOL @ Godfather. Seriously I'm vanilla. You'd be risking too much not to vote me though. If you're gonna think of a plan, think of one that doesn't involve me as a mafia role. Seriously, all I've done is help and this is how you treat me D: . (J/k good everyone and I was glad I was able to get us a lead.) ##Vote SouthRawrea I just decided since I thought you were mafia you would have to be godfather(or that would be the logical choice.) And dw, you helped(if vanilla.) Now we found the traitor(LSB) Everything is well in the world. So, if south turns mafia, GROUP HUG If he's mafia, lynch LSB. I'll expand on what other roles should do if that happens. to this post:
On September 01 2010 09:46 Pandain wrote: Actually, you know what I decided?
I am the pardoner, but then I went back on my decision to pardon Zeks(pmed ace.) Amazed no one called me out on saying i'll martyr radfield, but then he dies.
##Pardon SouthRawrea
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Other than that ##Vote SR - even if it doesn't count for the lynch, counts for my activity right Ace? Will post again soon, going through the thread.
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On September 01 2010 02:39 ~OpZ~ wrote: Anyone care to tell us what JeeJee was doing at DTA's house? I want to know too =o.
On September 01 2010 04:54 chaoser wrote: ##VOTE: Southrawrea
I've been pushing this for a while now...
If he's not traitor, then top 3 are in trouble. Though i really can't see how mafia can coordinate to have someone in the top three pick traitor and then they can grab the role that wasn't pick (CV, Santa, PoD) Mafia don't necessarily need to have taken those roles farther down the line. A traitor is a traitor...
On September 01 2010 05:57 Pandain wrote: Citizen, since I (believe I) know your confirmed, I was wondering what you thought about what we should do tonight. I was thinking that unless South is green, in which case we lynch LSB, we can focus on the roleblocker.
I hope you've understood where I'm coming from on JeeJee. So our main possibilities are brown bear and darth. I would suggest cv hitting darth for three reasons: 1. I get more scum vibes from darth(see: "I know theres 4 mafia so..." 2. Me and brown bear are BFF's 3.This may be outside the game, but it seems to me the possible mafia canidates aren't that great, and I would think there would be at least one vet to lead them. Darth: already known for being pretty good at scum. I think Darth is more a sure thing to be mafia rather than BB.
Of course, there's the chance both of them are mafia, can't discount that. 1. meh. if Radfield had said it first, would you have been down his throat? 2. Great reason. 3. Another great reason... maybe you didn't witness last game, but I'm pretty sure BB plays as well or better than me as mafia. Also, I'd be ashamed of myself if I was mafia this game. If I'm such a "pro" at the game, then why would I be making all of these "mistakes" and allow myself to stay under suspicion?
On September 01 2010 06:01 citi.zen wrote: Just to close this loop then: DTA, could you confirm whether or not you got visited by the RB on night one? I would've told the town anything worth telling like that. Assuming citi.zen isn't lying, JeeJee is not RB
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On September 01 2010 13:45 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 11:47 DarthThienAn wrote:On September 01 2010 06:01 citi.zen wrote: Just to close this loop then: DTA, could you confirm whether or not you got visited by the RB on night one? I would've told the town anything worth telling like that. Notice how he doesn't explicitly say no. Just saying. BrownBear are you serious? Way to quote one line and completely ignore the line after that. Are you try to make JeeJee sound like a roleblocker/mafia when he's not? I'm not saying he's not mafia, but he's not the roleblocker, if citi.zen is telling the truth about his track.
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On September 01 2010 23:09 Fishball wrote: So SR flipped Vanilla Townie. We have to assume he is telling the truth, or else he would be banned in future games anyways. That leaves LSB and Chaoser, one of them as the Traitor.
We tried CVing LSB the other Night, but Rastaban was role blocked. Chaoser himself should be Bad Santa, and provided a list of "innocents". The main question would be who to lynch next. LSB would be the obvious choice for most of us, due to the fact he survived. Yes, framing by the Mafia could be a possibility, but that isn't important right now. I'm thinking if we choose Chaoser, the benefits would be greater. If we lynch Chaoser, and he flips Traitor, then of course we would know the list is fake and the Traitor issue would be solved. If he flips Mafia, the list would still be fake and LSB is most likely the Traitor. If he flipped Pro-Town Bad Santa, then the list is basically confirmed; Town would have a go-to circle, and all debate about "who could be Mafia" among those players would end immediately.
Some might ask, if we lynch LSB, and he flips Traitor/Mafia, wouldn't that confirm Chaoser? The answer would be no, as we still won't know for sure what role and alignment Chaoser is, and for all that matters, he could still be Traitor/Mafia (Depending on what LSB Flips).
These are my thoughts in a nutshell. Again, I'll let you guys decide.
This is interesting...
What would it mean if LSB was traitor? Either chaoser is legit (and confirms his list), or he's mafia (invalidates his list). What would it mean if chaoser was traitor? LSB is legit/mafia, and chaoser's list is bull.
We want as information as possible, as soon as possible... I've considered LSB as the more likely candidate for traitor for most of the game, but the potential of confirming 4 townies (or is it 3?) far outweighs offing a traitor. We're at 13 players right now. 4 confirmed players is like a third of the town, plus you've got claimed pro-town roles. From there, it should be easy.
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I skimmed, but it's pretty straightforward -
##Vote LSB
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