TL Mafia XXVIII - Page 5
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On July 25 2010 01:02 citi.zen wrote: OK - let's encourage discussion. DTs talking to each other: good or bad in your view? lol no matter what role i am i would answer this question the same way, so essentially it is a nonquestion. try again! (the answer is that it is good) Basically my worry is that you need a way to deal with false claims. The mafia are at an advantage right now in terms of kills and I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to send in one of their players as a false DT representative in order to sacrifice himself, disrupt your plan, and buy them another day Situation: two people PM you claiming to be representatives of a Detective (they don't tell you his name). Now, since you know the name of the other DT or are at least in contact with him indirectly, we know one of these guys is a liar. How do you deal with this? We would have to publicly expose the names of the representatives, in order to spend a day role checking or lynching (double lynch?), which costs the town another 2 kills before the plan goes into effect. Is there another, cleaner, plan? Now one possible way to avoid this situation entirely is to have the remaining DT contact you himself, as you are confirmed town (unless there is a real vig/hatter out there and he is really really stupid or really really inactive). However, this still opens you up to false claims from the mafia, and in this case "your" DT can check one of the claimants (don't forget about the godfather!), thereby determining the innocence of the other. Still, you lose a night before getting the real DTs in touch with each other. And then, the possibilities of what happen during the night can destroy the plan entirely. The suicide bomber comes to mind. On the whole, this is a very powerful plan which is why i would expect mafia to interfere given that they haven't lost a member yet. Since the idea of the plan has already been set in motion it seems to me that the town has little choice but to participate - consider a scenario where the actual remaining DT is too nervous to contact citizen, and then citizen gets contacted my a mafia "detective." Since only 1 claim came to citizen, can he assume the innocence of this claimant? This scenario alone shows why we basically have no choice but to follow through with the plan now, and that the remaining DT needs to follow the plan and find a way to contact citizen. Personally, I'm not sure which method of contact is superior for the plan (representative to citi or actual DT to citi). Both have pros and cons here, can anyone else shed some light? | ||
Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On July 25 2010 01:13 lakrismamma wrote: Makes no sense then we should have 2 persons claiming. Since citi.zen would be confirmed at this point he can print the 2 personse in the thread and we have a 1v1. This is good for town. The point about getting 2 persons to claim is that the mafia have to sacrifice 2 persons to be able to infiltrate and even then we have a situation where 4 people are suspects and 2 of them is mafia this is also good for town. If citi.zen in confirmed then I see no problem with this. read my long post | ||
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United States2552 Posts
On July 25 2010 01:41 citi.zen wrote: Two things: if you trust me, you trust me DT. I got checked night 1 and personally chose night 2's check target. No way for the two of them to "play me". Second, multiple claims are fine. The mafia will give up 2 people. At night we investigate one of the competing groups. We get two reds either way. Clear? At night the mafia can shit on you whenever they want. | ||
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United States2552 Posts
On July 25 2010 02:10 BrownBear wrote: They might not even need to sac someone. The SB could just blow the plan to shreds by himself. Well, ok, I guess they technically do need to sac someone. You get the idea. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The thing is it won't necessarily stop the plan even if they do use the bomber. All false claims must be cleared up and all legit info must be exchanged before the time limit of night is up if we want the plan to go through without risk of derailment. There's just not a lot of room for error. If you'll notice, i am advocating the plan (we don't have a lot of a choice i don't think...), but there needs to be some very careful ground rules set here so that the shit doesn't hit the fan Rule #79b of Mafia: never ever assume the mafia are idiots. | ||
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United States2552 Posts
I need to think about this. I'm actually not sure if the correct play is to lynch South here. | ||
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On July 25 2010 04:27 chaoser wrote: If he IS bomber like he says he is, it'll just be me and him dying. That gives a lot of information against me/him such as those who where making a strong case against me/people who ADMITTEDLY jumped on him. If he's mafia, we just killed a mafia, good job, we still can't 100% trust citi.zen since it could be a ploy to sac one mafia to make the other one more trusted. Not saying that I don't trust you citi.zen, I'm just saying that's a possibility. yeah thats true. still, let's say south is telling the truth. we lynch him and you and he go boom boom. your role flip, which gives us so,e insight into the proceedings of Day 2. so it goes to night, mafia get 2 more kills for a potential of 4 kills in 1 cycle and then we have a double lynch tomorrow where we pretty much have to hit 2 mafia correctly (though citizen would account for 1) On the other hand, say South is false claiming and is red. We lynch him today and citizen is pretty much confirmed, and we move on to the scenarios detailed in my larger post a page or so back, but on the whole we're looking pretty good. what we need to consider are the motives behind each claim of Citizen and SouthRawrea. How would these motives change depending on the alignment of each player? | ||
Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Day 1 Votes] + Divinek Pandain SiNiquity bumatlarge Brownbear Subversion Youngminii (5) XeliN Amber[Light] Infundibulum Abstain (6) LaXerCannon tricode SouthRawrea chaoser protactinium zeks DTA (3) d3_crescentia Pyrrhuloxia tree.hugger ketomai (2) citi.zen lakrismamma Amber[Light] (1) BloodyCobbler (2) OpZ LaXerCannon (1) Misder Citi.zen (1) rastaban SiNiquity (1) Pandain (1) BloodyCobbler Infundibulum (1) youngminii + Show Spoiler [Day 2 votes] + Pyrrhuloxia XeliN zeks Subversion LaXerCannon rastaban OpZ Protactinium chaoser Pandain chaoser (8) youngminii SouthRawrea misder citi.zen BrownBear Divinek SiNiquity Subversion (7) tree.hugger bumatlarge Amber[Light] Infundibulum d3_crescentia Amber[Light] (1) Bloody Cobbler Abstain (2) lakrismamma tricode | ||
Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On July 25 2010 06:17 zeks wrote: #vote SouthRawrea Mafia is essentially against a wall so they pushed their most inactive member out to die How does that make any sense mafia is against a wall so they sacrificed someone who was going to be lynched anyway? if southrawrea is red it doesn't buy the mafia any extra time if he gets lynched | ||
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United States2552 Posts
On July 25 2010 06:31 zeks wrote: 1. His claim is an effort to save himself and get our main man citi.zen killed in the process 2. SouthRawrea is obviously expendable 3. Town organization is becoming a LEGIT THREAT - we've forced the action on them so now they came up with an aggressive reply with South claiming. Scum probably wrote his posts up for him rofl Okay, I can see this line of thinking now. However, so far 1, seems to be backfiring since South has already garnered several votes. And i doubt he had his posts written for him; they're not persuasive at all. Put yourself in the mafias shoes. If citizen is really the hatter, how would you disrupt the plan? The strategies i detailed in my longish post on page 96 (i think its 96) involving false DT claims would be much more powerful and harder to combat than sending out SouthRawrea to meekly claim that he's the real Mad Hatter. Like I said before, never assume the mafia are idiots. The other possibility no one has mentioned is that BC and Tricode are both red and we have 2 Hatters (possible yes... realistic probably not) | ||
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On July 25 2010 06:52 Pandain wrote: @Bolded section. How would that work? Day 2 there were 3 hits. We don't know there were three; BC said he took the 3rd hit and we have to take his word for it. I dont think the 2 hatter thing is too likely i just wanted to bring it up since it's important to approach the problem from all angles | ||
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United States2552 Posts
On July 25 2010 06:52 chaoser wrote: It won't matter if the next person is on the stands if one of them is suicide bomber, they'd just blow up tonight and laugh at us. And people ask my why I vote for double lynch. | ||
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Ugh, this is confusing. | ||
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#vote Double Lynch vote citi.zen | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:31 BrownBear wrote: True, but that doesn't change the fact that trying to get MH to say who they put their bombs on is a very scummy move. It's not worth possibly messing up a fakeclaimer when it's far more likely that they're legit, they say who their bombs are on, and mafia hits them to take out 2 or 3 people in one go. Not if citi.zens bombs are on a mafia. | ||
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United States2552 Posts
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i wish there was another word for 'claim' | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:54 Amber[LighT] wrote: What exactly are the chances that a mafia member can guess someone is a mad hatter so easily anyway? That's pretty random imo Were citi.zen's tells that simple to the mafia? Well I had citizen marked down as blue or maybe red since around Day 1; he was also one of Foolishness suspects. | ||
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