On August 05 2010 06:32 Protactinium wrote:
I believe that was more Divinek just claiming Veteran to BloodyC0bbler...
I believe that was more Divinek just claiming Veteran to BloodyC0bbler...
that it was
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 21:36 GMT
#3613
On August 05 2010 06:32 Protactinium wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 06:30 rastaban wrote: there also were some other infiltrations, I think we learned Divinek was Vet through PMs. I believe that was more Divinek just claiming Veteran to BloodyC0bbler... that it was | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 21:40 GMT
#3618
On August 05 2010 06:39 Pandain wrote: Honestly I feel I would've been safe if 1) Youngmini didn't immediately spurt out I false claimed 2) I wasn't miller or subversion didn't suspect you or you auto claimed to young then citizen, etc... Alot of what you did made it easier to put doubt on you. They were honest mistakes but ones exploitable. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 21:48 GMT
#3624
On August 05 2010 06:47 zeks wrote: Arg I had a good feeling I was going to die but I didn't mind dying to the bomber really but to have siniquity and lakris die on the same day was definitely out of my calculations for the record I never called for a XeliN protect I was actually thinking that siniquity wouldn't protect anyone at all well played at the end. no one took notice of the lurkers, and then when all the blues died the lurkers came out and won the game I am pretty sure siniquity was protecting you by the way. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 21:54 GMT
#3626
On August 05 2010 06:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 06:45 citi.zen wrote: On August 05 2010 06:27 Pandain wrote: Four major events that saved mafia: 1.Inflitration of DT Subversion 2.The Xelin Attack 3.Sexy blue sniping 4.Medic protecting BC(hehe) I actually think the mafia played badly. They won for a far simpler reason: the town was terrible. Yea we really effed up the role claiming stuff but it was sorta necessary given the setup. i dunno, i got citizen offed, then his entire circle died very quickly thereafter. Delaying the town from mass roleclaiming to a confirmed circle was something we were trying to prevent, I say it went well. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 21:55 GMT
#3627
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:12 GMT
#3636
On August 05 2010 07:12 BrownBear wrote: So wish I could have been mafia this game. Not trying to pretend I played particularly well (I didn't), but god, some of the things town did were so freakin' dumb. I still <3 you all though. Haha, you were fun to argue with since for whatever reason you always wanted my nuts to burn in a fire. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:14 GMT
#3637
On August 05 2010 07:04 Ace wrote: lol D3 this is going to haunt you. Guess I better start updating my Winning as Scum guide. Also listen to what flamewheel said about going back to read posts: Show nested quote + Majority Lynch voting rules: If your Scum team has very persuasive players or the Town has impulsive voters this will favor you a lot. It makes the game move faster than a deadline enforced lynch and faster games favor you. The less time the town has to decide on important issues and talk the better for your team. You can force mistakes faster and if the Town isn't good at going back to piece together posts the blame for the lynch might miss you. Even better if a townie "caused the lynch" (more on this later) you get to point it out and have some fun. Also major props to BC on that situation with citizen. Town or scum it was definitely a pro town move to bust citizen out for lying about a role claim for multiple reasons, the most important being that no one could ever confirm him without confirming who ever he was allegedly fronting for. By the time that all got cleared up town was screwed unless somebody really sat down and thought about how the hell could rastaban be town with his fake roleclaim too ^_^. Much obliged. As i told everyone in thread I would do it regardless of role. Thankfully infundi, chaoser and tree.hugger also saw issues and helped me win the day. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:20 GMT
#3641
On August 05 2010 07:17 Pandain wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 07:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On August 05 2010 07:04 Ace wrote: lol D3 this is going to haunt you. Guess I better start updating my Winning as Scum guide. Also listen to what flamewheel said about going back to read posts: Majority Lynch voting rules: If your Scum team has very persuasive players or the Town has impulsive voters this will favor you a lot. It makes the game move faster than a deadline enforced lynch and faster games favor you. The less time the town has to decide on important issues and talk the better for your team. You can force mistakes faster and if the Town isn't good at going back to piece together posts the blame for the lynch might miss you. Even better if a townie "caused the lynch" (more on this later) you get to point it out and have some fun. Also major props to BC on that situation with citizen. Town or scum it was definitely a pro town move to bust citizen out for lying about a role claim for multiple reasons, the most important being that no one could ever confirm him without confirming who ever he was allegedly fronting for. By the time that all got cleared up town was screwed unless somebody really sat down and thought about how the hell could rastaban be town with his fake roleclaim too ^_^. Much obliged. As i told everyone in thread I would do it regardless of role. Thankfully infundi, chaoser and tree.hugger also saw issues and helped me win the day. No credit for me? I withstood being blackmailed by youngmini and voted for citizen. Albeit maybe I should've given it -.- Honestly youngminii was under suspicion by you and subversion for being the gf. Following your own guts was prob the smart move there. It was actually beneficial to town to off citizen there as it gave more information, confirmed he had been lying, etc... | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:37 GMT
#3650
On August 05 2010 07:25 BrownBear wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On August 05 2010 07:17 Pandain wrote: On August 05 2010 07:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On August 05 2010 07:04 Ace wrote: lol D3 this is going to haunt you. Guess I better start updating my Winning as Scum guide. Also listen to what flamewheel said about going back to read posts: Majority Lynch voting rules: If your Scum team has very persuasive players or the Town has impulsive voters this will favor you a lot. It makes the game move faster than a deadline enforced lynch and faster games favor you. The less time the town has to decide on important issues and talk the better for your team. You can force mistakes faster and if the Town isn't good at going back to piece together posts the blame for the lynch might miss you. Even better if a townie "caused the lynch" (more on this later) you get to point it out and have some fun. Also major props to BC on that situation with citizen. Town or scum it was definitely a pro town move to bust citizen out for lying about a role claim for multiple reasons, the most important being that no one could ever confirm him without confirming who ever he was allegedly fronting for. By the time that all got cleared up town was screwed unless somebody really sat down and thought about how the hell could rastaban be town with his fake roleclaim too ^_^. Much obliged. As i told everyone in thread I would do it regardless of role. Thankfully infundi, chaoser and tree.hugger also saw issues and helped me win the day. No credit for me? I withstood being blackmailed by youngmini and voted for citizen. Albeit maybe I should've given it -.- Honestly youngminii was under suspicion by you and subversion for being the gf. Following your own guts was prob the smart move there. It was actually beneficial to town to off citizen there as it gave more information, confirmed he had been lying, etc... Exactly, I thought young was GF for a good long time. I thought BC was regular mafia, and South was maybe suicide bomber given how much he got defended. Got 2 of 3 alignments right, 0 of 3 roles. Ahh well. I was on so many peoples red lists, sucked hard, more surprising I wasn't killed sooner. I didn't even want the gf position either, I wanted regular goon and to give gf to pyrr, but everyone thought I should have it early on so i just took it. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:43 GMT
#3656
On August 05 2010 07:40 BrownBear wrote: Let's just discuss the game and not start a dramabomb, guys. So my gut instinct for who was originally mafia: BC (after day 2) chaoser (wrong) Pyrrholuxia (didnt have much to go on other than weird voting patterns and sketchy behavior, but apparently that was enough lol) tree.hugger (wrong) SouthRawrea (right) rastaban (after the fakeclaim, but this was the one where I was like "well, maaaaaybe...") Well... I had 4 of 6 down no trouble. The issues I have with my play were: 1) Failed Day 1. Like, seriously failed Day 1. Forgot the game was even going on, rushed in and voted to escape modkill, and... yeah, you see what happened. It put me in a position where I was forced to work while many people did not trust me/people were actively suspecting me. 2) Gave up on the roleclaim idea way too quickly. After BC shouted it down, I knew BC likely scum, but did not then follow up with my second idea (instead of vetclaim, mass townclaim). I thought that town opinion was too against me and BC was too loud for it to stand a chance of succeeding. Looking back, if we had mass roleclaimed day 2, mafia wouldn't have stood a chance in hell. We would have lost blues, yeah, but mafia would have been screwed. When you know exactly how many of each role is in a game, roleclaims are uberpowerful, and we never utilized this weapon until it was too late and it was just green vs. red. 3) Didn't communicate my suspicions clearly enough in the thread. I had this great list I was running, but I never posted it, and I never said "well, what about this?" The reasons are twofold: one, I am working 16 hours a day and don't really have the time to devote to mafia fully, and two, I was still scared of getting lynched. Even after I was (mostly) cleared by BC flipping red and Pandain not flipping red, I was still too timid. Gotta take more risks. Well, that's how BrownBear failed. Now did BrownBear succeed at all? 1) Nailed 4 of 6 mafia just by reading the thread. That's gotta count for something, even if I didn't get these findings out to town fast enough/at all 2) Called Pandain being miller. I tend to play by gut instinct versus statistical probability. The reason is, mafia is very much not black and white. Divinek might think it is, but he's wrong Mafia is shades of grey, and if a very pro-town player I've had a PM relationship with since Day 2 might be miller, I'm more inclined to think he's miller over he's scum. The reason I do this is because my gut instincts tend to be correct. Not always, but they tend to be. Check it out: Pandain flipped Miller. Pyrrhuloxia ended up being scum in the end. BC was scum. chaoser wasn't, okay, but my gut instincts were mostly correct. If you don't like the way I play, deal. I trust my brain way more than I trust some numbers on a piece of paper. So in closing, Brownbear's game was a lot of fail with a side dish of mild success. I also survived almost to the end as well, so that's something! I will post in a couple hours with thoughts on the rest of the game (other players, the setup), and the Bearies. You really should have pushed a massroleclaim idea. My attacking of your plan (it wasnt super solid) but was to avoid a mass roleclaim in the end. I was so afraid of that since it would auto grape the mafia. Also, you reallllly have to argue with me. See games were L/Ace, Me/Ace, Me/L, Ver/anyone, etc..... where arguing happens. It gives huge info on the players, as well as helps flesh out potential good plans to make them realllly good. The issue was town got too distracted by random antics of like YM or the like. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:44 GMT
#3657
On August 05 2010 07:40 Pandain wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 06:46 Pandain wrote: My faults this game: A reflective analysis 1.Too impulsive, made Subversion "doubt me" Also got me in sticky situations 2.Too trusting, trusted everyone in secret alliance =D. Especially proct, who I just thought was confused. Also too persuadable, as I was easily persuaded by mafia again and again. 3.Mis-guessed so many people for little "one liner mistakes". which is not enough to prove that you are mafia. Huge mistake, especially with Hyperbola. 4. Trusted people who made long posts, viewed them as "pro town" Also add to this that I always defended the "lurkers" because they had said they had "real life problems" and i always believed them T_T Most people do have real life problems, the issue is, its not a valid defense. Just because I work stupid amounts of hours doesn't mean im not red. It just means I won't be as active and am expected to perform with less time. its rough | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:51 GMT
#3663
On August 05 2010 07:48 BrownBear wrote: nah, my plan was eh, but it was really to lead into a mass-roleclaim idea. You successfully scared me into not going for it, though, so good on you And yeah, the argument was what sold it to me that you were mafia. Nobody noticed cause everyone thought I was scummy though. That, and young played horribly :/ To be honest your plan had holes in it that i exploited (not the only one who saw them) but had you transitioned into the mass roleclaim, id either have to fight it (and insta show my role) or let it slide getting owned. Just learning to fight back against big vocal players is a skill that once learned is insanely useful. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:53 GMT
#3665
On August 05 2010 07:49 Bill Murray wrote: I agree on liking the way you played as town, BrownBear, not because it was extraordinarily good, but because people on TeamLiquid are bad at pressuring mafia as town. That made this "rigged setup" actually fair, because people on TL are just a LOT better as mafia than town I was such an obvious red though -_- Im actually not that good of a red, i saw way to many slipups of my own early days and didnt appear "town" till later on. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:56 GMT
#3667
On August 05 2010 07:55 flamewheel wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 07:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On August 05 2010 07:49 Bill Murray wrote: I agree on liking the way you played as town, BrownBear, not because it was extraordinarily good, but because people on TeamLiquid are bad at pressuring mafia as town. That made this "rigged setup" actually fair, because people on TL are just a LOT better as mafia than town I was such an obvious red though -_- Im actually not that good of a red, i saw way to many slipups of my own early days and didnt appear "town" till later on. Hahaha Foolishness had you day one. When you guys killed him, nobody even batted an eye. I felt kind of sad though because this game was run for Foolishness. Stay alive in XXX buddy o/ Also let's BW more okay? IT WAS UNBALANCED BECAUSE OF FOOLISHNESS HE HAD TO DIE! fucking jerk making my life harder har har | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 22:59 GMT
#3670
On August 05 2010 07:57 Bill Murray wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 07:51 Protactinium wrote: Wow, I just realized that sINiquity was pretty much a Mafia medic this game. yeah, i was like LOL at the medics all game... especially when roffles saved bc hahahaha roffles saving me was prob the best method ever. Tricode messages me on aim going "God damnit, are you vet? cause I shot you last night" Or something along those lines. We had such a good laugh as a mafia team when i got saved. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 23:00 GMT
#3673
On August 05 2010 07:59 Pandain wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 07:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On August 05 2010 07:55 flamewheel wrote: On August 05 2010 07:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On August 05 2010 07:49 Bill Murray wrote: I agree on liking the way you played as town, BrownBear, not because it was extraordinarily good, but because people on TeamLiquid are bad at pressuring mafia as town. That made this "rigged setup" actually fair, because people on TL are just a LOT better as mafia than town I was such an obvious red though -_- Im actually not that good of a red, i saw way to many slipups of my own early days and didnt appear "town" till later on. Hahaha Foolishness had you day one. When you guys killed him, nobody even batted an eye. I felt kind of sad though because this game was run for Foolishness. Stay alive in XXX buddy o/ Also let's BW more okay? IT WAS UNBALANCED BECAUSE OF FOOLISHNESS HE HAD TO DIE! fucking jerk making my life harder har har is that why you killed him? Haha I thought that would've been too miniscule a reason and mafia just wanted to hit a potential blue. It was so much better for mafia when misder accidently left out the Foolishness post accusing BC lol. That was one of many reasons. But yea, he just had to die. He is outspoken and would have gotten me owned -_- had to off him early while he couldn't lay insane suspicion on me. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 23:12 GMT
#3683
On August 05 2010 08:07 citi.zen wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 07:04 Ace wrote: lol D3 this is going to haunt you. Guess I better start updating my Winning as Scum guide. Also listen to what flamewheel said about going back to read posts: Majority Lynch voting rules: If your Scum team has very persuasive players or the Town has impulsive voters this will favor you a lot. It makes the game move faster than a deadline enforced lynch and faster games favor you. The less time the town has to decide on important issues and talk the better for your team. You can force mistakes faster and if the Town isn't good at going back to piece together posts the blame for the lynch might miss you. Even better if a townie "caused the lynch" (more on this later) you get to point it out and have some fun. Also major props to BC on that situation with citizen. Town or scum it was definitely a pro town move to bust citizen out for lying about a role claim for multiple reasons, the most important being that no one could ever confirm him without confirming who ever he was allegedly fronting for. By the time that all got cleared up town was screwed unless somebody really sat down and thought about how the hell could rastaban be town with his fake roleclaim too ^_^. There was no lie. There was a strategic switching of two confirmed players. Nobody else was supposed to know but zeks and kris, co-planners from the start. The subsequent vote proved we were correct to make the switch. And no, what bc did was not pro town, not even remotely so. At worst the plan was supposed to cost me the lynching but reveal a mafia who would need to counter-claim. This public roleclaim "confirmation" is how 90% of games with pms end up. This is why this was a town favored set-up. If you think it's wrong for a person in that position to rc... I am puzzled. dude, you lied straight up :p Your plan had holes. Just because you knew the two people in your circle was legit didnt mean the town knew. You were also blanket asking for trust in a game where deception is key. Had you actually been the hatter, your plan still would have worked with your death (however your bombs most likely would have offed innocents). As it was, it had problems that allowed the mafia to exploit them long enough to off your circle. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 23:18 GMT
#3686
On August 05 2010 08:15 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 05 2010 08:07 citi.zen wrote: On August 05 2010 07:04 Ace wrote: lol D3 this is going to haunt you. Guess I better start updating my Winning as Scum guide. Also listen to what flamewheel said about going back to read posts: Majority Lynch voting rules: If your Scum team has very persuasive players or the Town has impulsive voters this will favor you a lot. It makes the game move faster than a deadline enforced lynch and faster games favor you. The less time the town has to decide on important issues and talk the better for your team. You can force mistakes faster and if the Town isn't good at going back to piece together posts the blame for the lynch might miss you. Even better if a townie "caused the lynch" (more on this later) you get to point it out and have some fun. Also major props to BC on that situation with citizen. Town or scum it was definitely a pro town move to bust citizen out for lying about a role claim for multiple reasons, the most important being that no one could ever confirm him without confirming who ever he was allegedly fronting for. By the time that all got cleared up town was screwed unless somebody really sat down and thought about how the hell could rastaban be town with his fake roleclaim too ^_^. There was no lie. There was a strategic switching of two confirmed players. Nobody else was supposed to know but zeks and kris, co-planners from the start. The subsequent vote proved we were correct to make the switch. And no, what bc did was not pro town, not even remotely so. At worst the plan was supposed to cost me the lynching but reveal a mafia who would need to counter-claim. This public roleclaim "confirmation" is how 90% of games with pms end up. This is why this was a town favored set-up. If you think it's wrong for a person in that position to rc... I am puzzled. Well from my P.O.V. this is how I viewed everything. There is no way you could have been a Mad Hatter for a couple of reasons: 1.) So early in the game very slim chance you'd have both bombs placed on scum correctly. 2.) With that in mind you'd never roleclaim if you were legit - you want to DIE if your bombs are placed correctly by an accidental mafia hit or a town lynch. 3.) With both these in mind it makes no sense for you to roleclaim to the town and if you do you'd be better off asking for everyone to vote for you so you get lynched and flat out ignore whatever BC is saying. In short you weren't even acting like anyone who was a mad hatter with 2 bombs on scum would. If your bombs aren't on scum then they are on townies or just not placed at all which means Scum have every incentive to shoot you. Which means you definitely don't want to roleclaim. Looking at it in both ways like this I figured you had to be lying. But that wasn't the only problem. If you were in contact with Detectives then how is it possible that you not only verified them to be legit but also got them to verify that your bombs were placed on actual mafia? In a span of 3 game days that would be a major leap of perfect execution. From the town perspective you are now the mouth of some unconfirmed DTs in the background that only a few people know about, but can't be revealed until shit hits the fan. So if I am a townie why in the world would I trust you when I just realized you lied for what I would have figured was a small gain? You are the mouth of a hatter or detectives and even if that was true why do I care as town - you haven't given me a guilty result on anyone. that sums things up better than I think I would have said it, much thanks. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 23:23 GMT
#3694
On August 05 2010 08:22 Bill Murray wrote: Final thoughts as a mod, and not as a player: If I ever run a large normal like this again, I will make sure that I edit the randomized list and switch good townies like foolishness and amber or opz (from this game) with like a SiNiquity nah. Siniquity was one of two "newbs" with blue roles for town. Giving medic to a complete newbie isnt a bad thing, as to be fair, he made a save day 1. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
August 04 2010 23:23 GMT
#3697
On August 05 2010 08:23 Pandain wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2010 07:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote: We lynch southrawr A) is mafia trying to save himself B) is hatter with one bomb on chaoser C) he flips green and we all go wtf . Said this before to other people but I want all of humanity to share in this amazing quote. That last option.... I was laughing for like 5 minutes straight. There is a better post let me find it. | ||
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