I'll post a bit more when I get back from work tomorrow or maybe in the morning, but a few statements on the last two pages should be setting off people's scumdars like crazy.
Until then, mes amis.
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Canada4732 Posts
I'll post a bit more when I get back from work tomorrow or maybe in the morning, but a few statements on the last two pages should be setting off people's scumdars like crazy. Until then, mes amis. | ||
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On June 26 2010 04:03 YellowInk wrote: Now for what I'm actually thinking about. I'm still not a big fan of what Team 3 has had to say. I still think there's a good chance this is a read team due to their passive push behind BM's attacks on me. I don't feel that either Bum or LaXer's commentary have been significantly beneficial to the town. I think that even Team 7's limited/defensive posting yesterday gave us better direction and information than Team 3. Going by voting records, Team 9 looks the worst to me. While some people have carried on the torch of 'Team 9 still looks kinda scummy', consider that Team 1 and Team 2 were both voting against Team 9. Now they're dead. Granted, this is soft evidence, mafia could have done this just to make us look harder at lynching 9. With L being a single player team, he's almost just as effective if he's mafia and less effective if he's town. It's also going to be harder to pull scum tells out of this 'team' since there is only one player talking. For my part, I want to hear L talking more than the average player to make up for this. I know he's at work right now, but I wasn't impressed with his (lack of) posting at the end of day 1. Per the schedule he had posted and his posting patterns halfway through day 1, I had expected activity from him at the end of day 1 in the couple hours before the close of the day. Especially so since there was such a balance between 3 teams that anyone could easily sway the results of the vote! I'd like to note here that in my conversation with Radfield about talking at night, this would be an example of one of the more subtle thigns I chose not to talk about at night. If I had brought up L's partial inactivity at the critical time, the mafia might have chosen to leave L alive specifically because they knew I wanted him hounded for an answer and there are other people who already suspect him for various reasons. I'm not saying any of this makes L red, it's just another piece of evidence to look at. I want to hear L's explanations. All of this is soft evidence so I'm not pointing fingers about any of it yet. Lets hear what these teams have to say. I have work. Caller decided he didn't really want to play and made 2 throw away posts then got himself modkilled after trying to vote against our own team. I had 0 control over that. Between us, Caller and I didn't PM during the game either, so what you see in the thread is 100% the content of our short, bittersweet romance. I just plain wasn't around at the end of day 1 either. I know you kinda wanted me to swoop in and 'save the day' but this is the second consecutive game in which I'm tied down by extensive work obligations. I work 11am - 7 pm est tuesdays through wednesdays and sometimes I end up going drinking with friends or partying. Check the game wherein Flamewheel died due to indian food, for instance; this is not new. So I don't really know what there's to explain; I have a life outside of mafia. I'd assume that's also the case for quite a few other people. I'm also rather upfront and have explained why, and when I'm gone for a day I tell the thread beforehand. What else, exactly, do you want me to do? Call in sick for work so that I can be influential prior to vote time ends? I'm really not prepared to do that. If you want to lay blame for yesterday's mislynch, you might want to start with the people who were pushing for it the hardest. ______________- On a more important note, you picked up that both teams 1 and 2 pushed against T9, voted against T9, and are now both dead. Radfield + the BM/Chez team both tried to bus 9. That's partially why I found it so incredibly strange that Korynne would flip and try to 'hold' the result at BM/Chez if her partner was instrumental in starting the 9 train. The interesting part is that the 9 train was actually made in majority by people jumping off the 7 train. That means that it isn't even just a question of T1+2 bussed against 9. You also need to examine their rhetoric against 7. The fact that 7 does not post unless they're being put on the stove is very, very scummy. | ||
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On June 26 2010 09:02 Ace wrote: oh and yes my vote is still going to L. If you aren't mafia, I'm going to spend a lot of time after the game making fun of you for being horrendous. If you're mafia, I'm going to spend a lot of time talking about how obvious you are. | ||
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On June 26 2010 09:54 Bill Murray wrote: Voting ends in 8 minutes. I have just been asked if claiming is ok in a near lynch scenario. i would also, in that scenario, allow for a nameclaim a lot of claiming is relative to being near L-3 L-2 or L-1 L-1 being a situation where 1 vote is needed to "hammer" or lynch 10/10. | ||
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On June 26 2010 10:04 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2010 09:46 L wrote: On June 26 2010 09:02 Ace wrote: oh and yes my vote is still going to L. If you aren't mafia, I'm going to spend a lot of time after the game making fun of you for being horrendous. If you're mafia, I'm going to spend a lot of time talking about how obvious you are. So then how about you stop talking about "if" and do something. Put your vote where your mouth is. I hope you enjoy the irony of writing this to taunt me while I'm preparing a large post especially for you, Acey kins. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [This is informations given by Zato] + On January 11 2010 06:05 Zato-1 wrote: Okay, so. Tonight, I'm hitting Ace. Why? Here's a list of Ace's posts from the last mafia game I played, in which he was mafia: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [1] + On August 20 2009 10:54 Ace wrote: o shit wtf 5 hours passed fast + Show Spoiler [2] + On August 20 2009 10:58 Ace wrote: can someone update me on everything that happened? I skimmed and saw people suggesting to lynch me? + Show Spoiler [3] + On August 20 2009 11:03 Ace wrote: ok so Sato snitched on himself lulz Medics aren't informed of prots? :/ That sucks. Vigi shouldn't hit anyone until they are solid the person is red. + Show Spoiler [4] + On August 20 2009 11:10 Ace wrote: :/ Well enough about me, what are we doing right now? + Show Spoiler [5] + On August 20 2009 11:23 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 11:21 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: zato was the one that brought up Satoux That pretty much ups Zeto's innocence. If he was really anti-town I doubt he'd want to cast a spotlight on his own Mafia ally. Especially in a game this small. Other than this there aren't even any patterns yet are there? Day 1 votes don't seem too telling. + Show Spoiler [6] + On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. + Show Spoiler [7] + On August 20 2009 11:33 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 11:30 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote: On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. It would seem rather out of place, more than anything. I don't particularly think Chezinu was a good hit, unless there was reason to think he was blue. Chezinu drew a lot of attention to himself, he seemed more beneficial to the mafia alive than dead. I understand what you're saying but it just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Chezinu seemed normal :/ Either way I guess the good news is no one super valuable has been killed yet (lol sorry Chez) + Show Spoiler [8] + On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote: hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. + Show Spoiler [9] + On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote: hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. + Show Spoiler [10] + On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 11:42 Qatol wrote: On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote: On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote: hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. You're really worried that I voted before posting my reasoning? Maybe I voted while figuring out exactly what to write because it's a speed game? no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. + Show Spoiler [11] + On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote: no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? + Show Spoiler [12] + On August 20 2009 11:56 Ace wrote: also Midori too, I didn't even realize he voted. + Show Spoiler [13] + On August 20 2009 12:02 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 11:57 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote: On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote: no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? As a matter of fact, I would. I can defend myself by saying that my behavior against infundibulum has been consistent with the previous days, as I have previously said. infundibulum did a great job roleclaiming to the town too, especially telling Qatol at the last minute. To give my reasonings again, I have been moving around votes all game to get discussion going. I started the lynch on Satoux, which helps proves my innocence. Pyrry has laid out some important information pertaining to this as well. I can understand if you want to think Pyrry and I as the two remaining mafia, as that would make sense, but that's simply not the case. I cannot speak on behalf of other people though. Qatol's posts in the thread annoy me to death, Pyrry is unusually quiet (of course without clues he's nearly useless). The Sato thing is over and done with but it does look good for you. I'm just saying you can't go around starting bandwagons, and when they turn out wrong act like it's just an oops moment. One of you guys has to pay. @Midori: Ok be suspicious of me but I didnt get a medic killed did I. + Show Spoiler [14] + On August 20 2009 12:06 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 12:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote: On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote: no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? I can understand your suspicion of foolish, qatol, and myself at this point but why Zato, if I may ask? He changed his vote a lot but that last minute switch from me to infun wouldn't seem like something a mafia would do since infun looked dead already and a mafia would have known infun was innocent. Which would actually be a good Mafia defense don't you think? "I can't be Mafia, my vote didn't even change anything!" + Show Spoiler [15] + On August 20 2009 12:12 Ace wrote: Qatol if Infundibulum was a Medic how could he safely make that claim to you? He'd never know your role + Show Spoiler [16] + On August 20 2009 12:18 Ace wrote: @Vivi: How has he sacrificed his own? You guys all said Sato pretty much told on himself so how is that relevant? + Show Spoiler [17] + On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote: Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. + Show Spoiler [18] + On August 20 2009 12:22 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 12:20 Zato-1 wrote: By 'inactive', I mean unhelpful in finding mafia. @Ace we've only found 1, what do you want me to do magically pull one out my hat? + Show Spoiler [19] + On August 20 2009 12:26 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 12:23 Foolishness wrote: On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote: On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote: Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. I convinced Zato to vote for infundibulum at the last minute. I do not believe we should be looking at Zato, but rather other people. just because you did that doesn't mean he's town aligned. + Show Spoiler [20] + On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote: Okay this needs to come out right now. I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. + Show Spoiler [21] + On August 20 2009 12:31 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 12:30 Qatol wrote: On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote: On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote: Okay this needs to come out right now. I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. Wagon's a bit big for the remaining of mafia, don't you think? 2 mafia left 3 people claiming to be working together being coordinated by rolechecks. So the conclusion is mafia? Yea because it's the SAME people that got it wrong the first time. You mean to tell me you guys shouldn't be looking at your little group for the answers as to where the suspicions should go? + Show Spoiler [22] + On August 20 2009 12:32 Ace wrote: and look at the shit you did now + Show Spoiler [23] + On August 20 2009 12:35 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2009 12:34 Zato-1 wrote: If we have a Vigi... you need to hit Foolishness. He is most definitely mafia. .... You can easily categorize all of his posts in two categories: Chaff: He talks but essentially says nothing. Posts # 1 through 6, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 19 and 20 are of this kind. Guilt Trips: Since he's basically committed to nothing all game, he weighs down on those who have done something whenever they were wrong. Posts #7, 11, 13, 17, 18, 21, 22 and 23 are of this kind. Ace's strategy was to sit back, feign activity, and pounce on Town members whenever they made a mistake. Now, take a look at Ace's posts in the current game: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [1] + On January 05 2010 21:24 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote: Dear morans. There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for. Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one. So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far. 1. RebirthOfLeGend 2. Ace 3. L 4. vx70GTOJudgexv 5. Scamp 6. Zato-1 7. Chezinu 8. nemY 9. HeavOnEarth 10. Vivi57 11. ketomai 12. Mikeymoo 13. Malongo 2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react. %) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron. I agree that killing useless players is always a sound strategy when there isn't a better idea. Of course with the what, 15 or so mafia games played so far that list isn't exactly hard to populate at the moment: 1.) vivi57 2.) nemy 3.) RebirthofLegend And if any of you remember last game with the huge fuck ups of 3 players in particular the prime candidate for most detrimental to the town is RoL. He doesn't read and is a sheep. He's easily influenced and lets his emotions get to him and rarely if ever helps the town. Last game he didn't even realize he was being manipulated until the very end. Vivi57 and nemy, well you guys already know how terrible both of them are. It's just that RoL is far worse than either of them. + Show Spoiler [2] + On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote: I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics? This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format. + Show Spoiler [3] + On January 06 2010 10:43 Ace wrote: First of all one thing I need to make clear: I've seen medics openly claim Day 1 before in similar formats and almost every single time they end in disaster and the town loses. Now before I go into specifics of why, Judge I know you've played on Mafiascum. Assuming they are pretty good over there you've probably seen a lot of possibilities for broken cop/medic claims that is doable in this game. That's the ONLY thing that makes me even remotely think you can be a legit medic. If that wasn't possible I'd just call for your lynch. The reasoning that Mafia wouldn't fake claim a medic because it offers little gain is moot - everyone would come to the same reasoning you just did (logically) and agree the medic is obviously real because no mafia would sac himself. Which is wrong. Mafia KP is always 1. If we all come to that logical conclusion we in fact now have a Mafia who gained something for nothing because everyone thinks it's so stupid why would they do it. Now the other reason Medic role claims end in disaster is that if you're lying the real medic doesn't know if you're a Vet false claiming or a Mafia in disguise. Regardless they won't talk to you, the cop can't do anything once he RCs you if you aren't a Medic and you will most certainly be dead soon. I think Scamp said it pretty well earlier: This is a guessing game, but now it's no longer a blind guessing game from the Mafia side but a potential shot of information they shouldn't have this early. If you're gambit fails and you are really the medic and you die tonight, the game is going to be ridiculously hard for the town. You've got experience. You SHOULD know that with you not being able to be confirmed through medic protections we have no incentive to believe you at all. I'm inclined to say you're move is very anti-town at the moment. + Show Spoiler [4] + On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote: Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia. I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/ Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays). + Show Spoiler [5] + On January 07 2010 04:15 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote: Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please. Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself. Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading. I actually forgot about the VI thing. You really just sucked last game ^_^ + Show Spoiler [6] + On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote: On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote: -I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red. -For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat. - Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side. I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why? First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side? Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill. I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote. I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy. + Show Spoiler [7] + On January 07 2010 04:35 Ace wrote: BTW - Judge is mafia, calling it now. + Show Spoiler [8] + On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote: Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument. Look at what Judge has just done. Hey I'm a Medic! this can't be proven or disproved by anyone I have a plan, trust me! why are we putting blind faith in him? So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on. I said at the end of last mini mafia that anyone role claiming medic is destined to die. The Medic role generally wants to avoid getting hit even if he can protect himself. However he/she does it is whatever, but trying to attract fire would be unwise. Hence, Judge definitely is NOT a medic. No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go? + Show Spoiler [9] + On January 07 2010 06:25 Ace wrote: what exceptional information? I really want to know this. + Show Spoiler [10] + On January 07 2010 06:31 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote: I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage. If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up. Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now. I actually don't even care what his plan is. The fact that he has a plan and hasn't said a word about it speaks volumes. This is an 11 player game - what plan does he really have that's so fragile but powerful that it needs to be stated on Day 2 instead of Day 1? How does that help the town? Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. I'm not going through this "he might be blue" shit again. I've said in countless games I really don't give a shit about not lynching someone solely because they might have a power role. If you make a big gamble and you make a mistake you deserve to be at the center of the lynch discussion. + Show Spoiler [11] + On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote: Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. + Show Spoiler [12] + On January 07 2010 07:35 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 07:11 L wrote: Look at what Judge has just done. Who's putting blind faith in him?Hey I'm a Medic! this can't be proven or disproved by anyone I have a plan, trust me! why are we putting blind faith in him? Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him. If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good. If he does have a plan there isn't any reason to wait an entire Day to tell us. This is really one of the big signs painting him as Mafia to me. There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. This is the same thing we go through every game where for some reason people assume someone must be telling the truth IF they have a plan. Show nested quote + Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. Show nested quote + There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper. When? In most of our games townies that lied have led to great disasters. Townies shouldn't be trying to lie to deceive anyone because hey - thats exactly what the Mafia are doing! And using your last sentences if Judge is a Medic then WHY WOULD HE BE WANTING TO GET HIT. Because he isn't a Medic. Show nested quote + So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game? I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways. Did the last game have this rule set? I don't think so. When I claimed DT last game I was essentially invulnerable except for the Mafia having the option of switching BGs. This game has no Mayor/Pardoners so that's out of the window. There is nothing to be gained from anyone claiming to be a Medic on Day 1. Ever. Show nested quote + Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF. Chances are he's Vet or Mafia. That's it. Doesn't even matter if he's plain red or GF. If he's red and he gets checked by the DT that means by Day 2 the DT is immediately outed in a game where the Mafia KP doesn't change based on Judge dying. As for any other candidates no one else is even near as suspicious as Judge. Somehow Malongo is being talked about based on 1 post he threw out there when Judge has several and SHOULD be talked about even more. Where the hell is everyone else playing this game? + Show Spoiler [13] + On January 07 2010 07:37 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 07:25 Zato-1 wrote: On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote: Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb. no I'm lynching him because I think he is Mafia. I was using the way he was playing as an argument for why I think he indeed is Mafia ^_^ And yes I'm strongly opposed to Day 1 role claims in most formats. + Show Spoiler [14] + On January 07 2010 08:59 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 08:34 L wrote: There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Did the last game have this rule set? Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle.Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted . Last game I could be invincible. What are you talking about? lol have you forgotten already? It doesn't matter if you think he's a GF. The point is no one claims medic on Day 1. It's seriously a dumb move. It's like 4 pooling on an island map. There is nothing to gain. And this hey let's wait and see his plan along with this I can't tell you guys what my plan is mentality is screaming Mafia. And to top it all off now we want to lynch Malongo based on nothing? lol right. You guys are making PERFECT sense here. Answer me on how we are going to confirm judge is a medic. + Show Spoiler [15] + On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote: Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die? Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. + Show Spoiler [16] + On January 07 2010 09:23 Ace wrote: you must be a salesman in real life + Show Spoiler [17] + On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote: Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game. Oh and argue with RoL too. + Show Spoiler [18] + On January 07 2010 09:45 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote: On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote: Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die? Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge. Does him being blue even matter? He hasn't done anything suspicious at all. And I don't have an argument for anyone else. Seriously Judge is the only person that seems suspect to me. + Show Spoiler [19] + On January 07 2010 09:46 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 09:45 L wrote: On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote: Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game. Oh and argue with RoL too. I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line. Sup with that, bro? why would I want RoL killed again? How is him echoing me even relevant? :/ + Show Spoiler [20] + On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote: how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell. The second part was sarcasm. L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. + Show Spoiler [21] + On January 07 2010 09:52 Ace wrote: I can see just fine. Someone claims to be a Medic Day 1 and I'm supposed to just sit back and be like omg fine! Right Judge. Right ^_^ + Show Spoiler [22] + On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote: @L: The only person I'd want to see die is Judge. @Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. + Show Spoiler [23] + On January 07 2010 10:01 Ace wrote: indeed L. Except I didn't pick because neither of them seem more fishy to me than Judge. + Show Spoiler [24] + On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote: @Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. + Show Spoiler [25] + On January 07 2010 10:08 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 10:05 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote: On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote: @Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall. Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum. But you made it sound earlier that defending innocents is a Mafia trait when I just proved to you that it is not. Hence why I called you out on it. You can't say me defending Malongo makes one or both of us scummy. There is no hole in my logic because I already admitted I do it regardless of my role. + Show Spoiler [26] + On January 07 2010 10:14 Ace wrote: thats nice Judge. But like I've said before you shouldn't be surprised I'm not going for fake Medic claims. + Show Spoiler [27] + On January 07 2010 10:22 Ace wrote: L if you're concerned about RoL why isn't anyone else voting for him? (besides me of course) + Show Spoiler [28] + On January 07 2010 10:32 Ace wrote: That voting thread sure is something else. + Show Spoiler [29] + On January 07 2010 10:48 Ace wrote: I know L is laughing very hard right now + Show Spoiler [30] + On January 07 2010 11:45 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote: Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later. stop grasping at straws. I haven't even spoken to Chezinu all game. + Show Spoiler [31] + On January 07 2010 12:48 Ace wrote: ? are you serious? so you just flip flop voted multiple times, and now if Malongo dies and flips innocent you can say he had a chance to "save himself". lol interesting really. + Show Spoiler [32] + On January 07 2010 13:00 Ace wrote: seriously I would + Show Spoiler [33] + On January 07 2010 13:09 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 13:07 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm. @RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town." For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players. I said this a few pages back. DT/Medic is also somewhat busted by GF roles, but only somewhat. And the reason you need DT/Medic is because without both Mafia is just going to run wild killing everyone and people will be scared to post knowing they have no protection. + Show Spoiler [34] + On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote: Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. + Show Spoiler [35] + On January 07 2010 13:18 Ace wrote: Not at all. More like the random out of the blue bandwagon that you guys put on Malongo was the wrong call. + Show Spoiler [36] + On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 13:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote: Malongo: (5) Zato-1 vx70GTOJudgexv L HeavOnEarth Scamp Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now. I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen. I don't. 5 out of 12 possible votes and not one of them Mafia? I highly doubt it. Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects: Judge, obviously ^_^ Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle + Show Spoiler [37] + On January 07 2010 13:37 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 07 2010 13:32 Scamp wrote: On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote: Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects: Judge, obviously ^_^ Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle Yes, I would be very surprised if I wasn't heavily interrogated day 2 for my actions at the end of day one. I would like to know, however, your opinions of my decision to try to avoid a no-lynch. No one commented on this. I think that a no-lynch is worse than any lynch day one. I'd actually rather we have had a no lynch. I was already against the Malongo band wagon from jump and since he didn't really do much his death wasn't going to reveal anything major. Well now that he's dead everyone that voted for him is rightfully going to be questioned. + Show Spoiler [38] + On January 08 2010 09:40 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2010 04:04 L wrote: I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player. Can't have it both ways, champ. I like how a long time before that I said killing malongo was a bandwagon move and we should have just killed Judge instead. It's ok though, if I survive tonight there's going to be hell on Day 2. + Show Spoiler [39] + On January 08 2010 10:14 Ace wrote: The bandwagon at Judge was very justified: A guy claiming medic on day with a "wait and let me live" approach vs a guy who got one of his posts randomly plucked out of no where and accused. Yes, the votes against Judge were so unjustified. Either way Day 2 someone is going to have to answer some tough questions. + Show Spoiler [40] + On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate? Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him? I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? + Show Spoiler [41] + On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote: On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote: On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate? Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him? I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. + Show Spoiler [42] + On January 08 2010 12:04 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2010 11:44 Zato-1 wrote: On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote: On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote: On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote: On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate? Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him? I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game. But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you. more leadership? lol nice I didn't even know I was a leader yet. The 5 of you that voted malongo off are all top suspects. Especially when ya know, you were the one who started the bs bandwagon and the others hopped on to it with lame excuses. + Show Spoiler [43] + On January 08 2010 20:51 Ace wrote: this is all interesting. I guess tomorrow I'll have to make a long post about Zato-1, Judge, MM and Chezinu. However at this point Chez I'm pretty sure you know you're like, almost guaranteed a lynch (seriously after seeing judge RC the first day and take shit, you'd have to AT LEAST be able to find a way to convince people). Also the other reason I don't really believe you is because on the Day 1 vote you flip flopped so many times that you came off as Mafia. Seriously, why would you flip flop if you wanted to save Malongo or Judge? Just abstain if that's the case. And yea I read your PM Chezinu, but I'm not helping you get MikeyMoo killed unless you really flip DT. Either way it's really funny how every single time someone is "on the radar" ANOTHER person comes from left field with some new info and knocks shit out of whack. After the Chezinu/MM debacle is cleared up we'll move on to past transgressions. + Show Spoiler [44] + On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote: WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!? + Show Spoiler [45] + On January 08 2010 22:04 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2010 21:41 Zato-1 wrote: On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote: WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!? Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town. Yea I was (still am) outraged at you. But there was no need to role claim. I mean seriously, is everyone going to roleclaim now when we have a GF in the game? Come on man, you just saw Chez and his nonsense. I don't even think you would have gotten put on the chopping block today since chez just pulled that stunt and that path gives us a faster way to finding Mafia. + Show Spoiler [46] + On January 08 2010 22:06 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2010 21:42 Chezinu wrote: I still shocked that Ace can't see that I'm blue.. how many times do I have to tell you if you didn't pull that stupid voting stunt on Day 1 I would have been more inclined to believe you? You said you didn't want to kill Judge or Malongo, told them to save themselves yet kept your vote flip flopping instead of simply abstaining. If you saw someone do that do you honestly think you'd believe they were legit? + Show Spoiler [47] + On January 09 2010 05:07 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2010 04:39 Scamp wrote: As far as roleclaiming goes, I don't see the problem with someone claiming Vig. 1) It's easy as hell to confirm. 2) No GF is going to choose Vig as his cover. 3) As long as the Vig uses his power the night after he claims, there really isn't any downside to the town. The only thing it affects as far as I can tell is that mafia are going to be more careful this day to avoid being the target. Vigi isn't exactly easy to confirm, check the rules ^_^ But either way it only looks bad because Chezinu DT claimed first. No point in mass roleclaims on the Second Day of the game when there isn't even anything to panic about. + Show Spoiler [48] + On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote: Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational. I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him. As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. + Show Spoiler [49] + On January 09 2010 14:35 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2010 14:33 Chezinu wrote: On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote: Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational. I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him. As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game.. I'm active enough? Seriously though I've been in meetings and shit. And tomorrow from 12-9 ET (cringe) I'll be tutoring kids. Hopefully they let me use the internet. + Show Spoiler [50] + On January 09 2010 14:40 Ace wrote: You've told me I'm Mafia about 7 times already. But you can keep screaming it for your own pleasure ^_^ + Show Spoiler [51] + On January 09 2010 15:53 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2010 15:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote: Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational. I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him. As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. I would go with what you said except for one thing. I believe killing mikeymoo gives us a better vigi candidate. While if we lynch Chezinu we only learn to either A. Vigi MM or B. Vigi someone else? If we kill MM first and hes not mafia then we know killing chez gives us scum, if MM is mafia then we should hit either L or Judge. Judge posts how MM probably is mafia but we should kill Chezinu because its some evil plan from mafia to infiltrate using Chezinu as decoy. Summary, Lynch Chez we either don't know who to vigi or we vigi MM. Lynch MM first we either kill Chez or Judge. Doesn't matter either way. Hey judge you can even confirm yourself this way too! If we have Zato hit you and you protect yourself his hit won't go through! Ok I understand why you're for killing MM...but how does that confirm Judge or even L? + Show Spoiler [52] + On January 09 2010 20:30 Ace wrote: Oh...oh my god! Brilliant! Surely the DT wouldn't think that the fact you purposely claimed Medic to draw an investigation to yourself and a GF isn't in the game you'd never even attempt to pull a stunt! So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time. Yeah, that's a lot of posts alright. But, I've done some work and categorized them for you again: Chaff posts where he makes comments and maybe triest to set a mood or give an idea of his thoughts: Posts #1 through 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 40, 41, 44, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 51 and 52. Posts with content: Posts #34, 36, 37, 38, 42 and 43 are essentially guilt trips; someone did a mistake, and he's calling them out on it. Posts #8, 13, 15, 18, 23 and 39 are posts in which he justifies attempts to lynch Judge for his day 1 roleclaiming. Now for the analysis: - There's nothing suspicious about making Chaff posts. Everyone makes them, some more than others. - Guilt Trip posts are of a different kind; when the Town makes a mistake, instead of trying to pick up the broken pieces and move on to the next course of action, Ace focuses on kicking the parties responsible for the mistake while they're down. This is done to lower Town morale and attempt to make Town players bitter, and recriminate themselves about who's responsible for what- while he sits back and watches. - His posts against Judge are probably just the fact that his dislike for day 1 roleclaiming happened to coincide with a daring Town initiative for getting organized. Two birds with one stone there (personal satisfaction & lynching a potential Town organizer), and he can just blame his zeal against day 1 roleclaiming for persecuting Judge. - What seems to be the connecting trend between Ace's posts? The only thing he's actually committed to, was persecuting Judge, and for a pretty bad reason at that ("I think he's lying about being a Medic, so he has to be mafia"). Other than that, he's content to sit back, make a lot of posts with little substance, and punish Town members when they make a wrong call. Does this seem like a game-winning plan for Town to you? 'cause it looks a lot more like a mafia trying to sow dissent among the Town while appearing to be active, to me. For this reason, tonight I am going to kill Ace. You'll generally notice 2 similar trends; An attempt to shit on players without providing much in the way of productive work. Ace of all players loves talking about blue strategy, yet he didn't bother talking about potential medic targets; Odd seeing as he's fucking Ace and Ace normally gets shot early. He didn't talk about DTs either, He didn't ask for anyone to be checked. It seems like his prime focus has been trying to breadcrumb to set up lynches. Ace pushed very strongly against Chez/BM using their posting style as an excuse, much the same way he used judge's claim during the game this is referenced from as an excuse. Generally Ace's mafia play in low number setups to cruise along while attempting to appear active without providing something akin to a forward looking plan. He heaps suspicion on people, then has the rest of his team casually flit in and out of fights he causes. That's 100% what he's doing this game. Don't believe me? Check his post history in this thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Ace&gb=date Ace's posts are either 1 liners or they're tossing shit at people. Instead of bothering to unpack any of his ideas, he's content to try and trap townies. Look at the first 25 or so posts in the thread; They exclusively attempt to smear both me and the BM/Chez team. BM/Chez reacted to it; See here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131987¤tpage=23 BM flat out nails Ace: Ace isn't doing shit for the town. Read the entire page. Its pretty telling. Ace complains that BM is lying when Ace's narrative has been that BM/Chez style play will get you killed. Ace says that statement is a lie despite: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131987¤tpage=6#109 The fact that it isn't. Ace does the same with me at a later point. But those are kinda just little peanuts ontop of the sundae. The main scoop is here: On June 25 2010 09:55 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On June 25 2010 09:35 Radfield wrote: On June 25 2010 06:46 Zyrre wrote: On June 25 2010 05:57 Ace wrote: I've illustrated my case on L the past few pages. If you need it to be more clear let me know. Reading through this it does sound convincing. L would be an easy target for mafia to go after though. Only one person that needs to be implicated, and L has been posting quite a lot. Some of his mistakes are ones I would make myself. BUT, since none of Ace's posts seem like mafia and Ace has been bashing L since the start, that seems highly unlikely. Incorrect, some of Ace's posts seem scummy. Particularly the fact that he pushed hard for Team 2, when I think he should have known better. It's almost like he was surprised they were shitting up the thread. However, I agree with him that L seems scummy. He's near the top of my list, but what really puts me off is Caller quitting. I really don't think Caller would have bailed on the game if he'd gotten a mafia role. It's strange, but this alone gives Team 6 some townie cred. If we do lynch L, and he flips green, I propose we go after Ace. Why? Because it means one of two things: Ace is a mafia and has led us to lynch two townies, or, Ace is town, playing extremely poorly and has led us to lynch two townies. Ace is not a poor player. If his actions and analysis are giving poor results, then he needs to be questioned for it. Teams I'm ok lynching: Team 4, Team 6, Team 9. However, if Team 4 flips red, then Zyrre needs to be held accountable for his above post. If I was mafia what would I do. First, railroad the two spammers, easily done, they basically lynch themselves. Second, go after L, he's inflammatory, he makes occasionally poor arguments, and he'll probably turn everyone against himself anyways. Third hasn't happened yet, but mine would be to pick on whomever the most inactive/newbie team is, and try to convince everyone they are scum. Most newbie teams have a ton of scumtells whether they are mafia or not(See team 9). So far Ace has two checkmarks., but of course if L flips red then Ace is likely green. I wasn't surprised at all. I think you are making a big mistake about my play here: I don't care what a player's supposed normal behavior is. If you play scummy and do ridiculous things I will vote for you. There is no excuse such as "I always play bad when I'm town" and thats how I made my decision. Of course if L flips green/blue you can do whatever you please. The problem here should be obvious. We have 7 people alive. After a lynch on me we'd have 5 people alive. 3 town. 2 mafia. Lylo. If Ace is town and he's cool with being lynched, we lose the game. No townie would gladly accept being killed in Lylo because it's a loss. Ace is cool with it. Probably because Ace is trying to garner support for a push. Even if Ace is red, being able to kill me today is optimal for him; he's controlled 2 of our lynches and from this point all his other team needs to do is stay moderately active. Both teams are free to breadcrumb around to their heart's content because killing Ace in a 3-2 scenario if he's red just leads us to another 2-1 Lylo which means town has a less than 25% chance at victory with random choice. Put simply; Ace is doing what he normally does as mafia. He throws shit around at targets that he thinks he'll be able to target safely and sits back making pithy one liner chaff posts. Good thing Ace has done that twice in the past 5 posts. | ||
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No I don't. It's very well known that I always says Player ability is much more important than Blue roles. That is of all things one of the reasons I'm the best player on these forums - regardless of whatever I flip I'm leading you to scum. Secondly why would I talk about DTs or Medics when we aren't even sure if we have any? No, that's not very well known at all. In fact the moment we started switching to F11, you stopped playing consistently. Judge's comments in that game alone were pretty on the money about your play. Why would you talk about DTs or Medics if we aren't even sure if we have any? Is that a joke? DTs checking certain players over others and keeping good players alive seems to be a pretty pro-town thing. I guess you disagree, but that seems typical because you aren't here to win, you're here to survive until day 3. Wrong. Look at my last post I proved you wrong in which you still haven't answered. I explained why I voted for Bm and Chez. I'll quote it again for you here: Completely right. Even the post you quoted that 'exonerates you' supports my statement that you railed on BM and Chez's posting style. The RVS analysis is pretty hilarious, because BM's usage was textbook correct. He basically talked about one of the jeep tells, which is standard. The rest is LITERALLY YOU HARPING ON THEIR POSTING STYLE. You don't like their style of posting. You don't like the amount of pushing they do. You didn't like the volume of their posts. You literally defend yourself by quoting evidence against yourself. Sorry bro. Not gonna cut it. Once again you are making things up. I called T2 out on their play in THIS GAME. Spamming, multiple vote switching, massive accusations, blatant misuse of terms and game theory - all behavior that did not help the town. Whoa. You called them out on shit that you said you disliked in them from previous games. Shocker. Somehow that means you didn't try to import a pre-game bias despite arguing directly from it?!AMAZING CONCLUSION ACE. NEXT WILL YOU TELL US UP IS DOWN AND LEFT IS RIGHT? So let's assume this is true (which it isn't) - If my playstyle is to lay low and cruise then why am I so active in this game? I was one of the most active players all Day 1. Hell I was more active than you yourself but yet I was laying low? Another blatant lie. Let's move on because I like the taste of your scum blood You aren't active. You're tossing out 1 liner shit posts and throwing crap in my and t2's direction. You haven't done a single constructive thing besides that. Like I said, you feign activity but dont' produce proper work for the town, exactly like Zato describes in his analysis of your play. It has nothing to do with post volume, but post content. But okay, pretend that's a 'BLATANT LIE'. Seems everything anyone says about you must be one. So L where are all my 1 liner's and tossing shit at people You uh, seem to have forgotten that the two posts prior to the post I'm quoting you in have been 1 liners wherein you've tossed shit at me. LITERALLY WITHIN THE LAST 10 POSTS, TWO OF YOUR POSTS ARE OF THE TYPE THAT YOU ARE PRETENDING YOU ARE NOT MAKING. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL DESPERATION. Where on that page do I say anything about BM/Chez's playstyle. Quote it!. You can't because it didn't happen - once again you're lying. Well, your narrative against their playstyle is pretty much all across the thread (including the post i am replying to), but are you referring to me saying that you said they lied? If so: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131987¤tpage=23#455 Oh shit, I quoted it. There you are straight up calling them liars (again, because EVERYONE LIES ALL THE TIME RIGHT?!). BM wasn't lying. I proved that in my post. You are just trying to discredit him with your bullshit, as you're trying to do with me. Its pretty obvious that your goal here isn't to do much else than discredit people then push for their lynch. You did it with BM, you're trying to do it with me. Once again a blatant lie No, actually it isn't. I'm definitely not cool with being lynched. Where did I state that? Right here champ. Of course if L flips green/blue you can do whatever you please. You basically try to wriite this off that no one's talking about being lynched, when you have a gigantic radfield confirmed green post saying that if I die and flip green, you're 100% red. You reply with "ok do whatever you want at that point". If you're town you don't want people 'doing what they want' if you get the lynch on me wrong (and it is indeed wrong), because it automatically loses the game. You're trying to twist your way out of this, but its pretty obvious that you're running outta rope. See. Once again I've bagged you for falsely representing my position. Blatant lying. You're definitely getting my vote but in my next post a couple of hours from now I'm going to implicate you in shooting T1 last night. You're definitely scum. See? Zato's analysis is 100% right. You make empty posts that feign activity, throw shit around, then try to get people lynched without adding anything to the town. Pretending everyone 'lies' when they push you doesn't make what they say lies. You 100% fit the profile of Mafia Ace. You are Scum. | ||
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On June 26 2010 13:13 Ace wrote: You just posted the same bullshit you posted before without any evidence. Where are the 1 liners L? Where is my talking about their posting style? The JEEP tells are outdated tells from newbie games. BM was wrong about RVS. My play hasn't been consistent since we started using F11? Er what? Another baseless accusation. QUOTE SPECIFIC POSTS L. Where is the evidence? Literally this is what you do: 1.) Say I did or didn't do something. 2.) Claim because of 1, I must be scum. 3.) Tie it into an argument that doesn't exist. Example: Me railing on BMs playstyle, me making 1 liner chaff posts, me not scum hunting. My previous post proved you wrong. Secondly Zato's analysis of that game doesn't fit this game. Where are the chaff posts L? Where are the posts that say nothing? You can't find them. Your making shit up and I got you running now. You STILL haven't responded to my post earlier in the game in which you mis-represented my position and you're doing it again. "Of course if L flips blue/green you can definitely do what you want" -> me being cool with being lynched. I'm going to put a stop to your shitty logic. Your getting lynched and I'm going to go all out to make sure every townie sees what we do. Unlike past games where I had to damn near vote for everyone to get you lynched I've got an ally in DTA here so it's going to be much easier. Ace, if you weren't grasping at straws, you'd go look at your last 4 posts. 2 of them are literally shit throwing one liners. They are at the bottom of page 34. There are plenty of fucking chaff posts, LIKE THE TWO MENTIONED ABOVE. Rest of your post is literally the same "you're a liar, neener neener" bullshit. You can ignore the evidence that was vomited straight out in front of you and pretend it isn't there, but that's okay; the rest of the town won't. The BM/Chez business is pretty obvious to anyone who read your argumentation, too. You're scum. You got found out. Just make sure to give me a happy smiley face when you die so that I know you aren't ACTUALLY butthurt. I'd hate to lose my best mafia buddy. | ||
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Thanks for makin' this easy. | ||
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On June 26 2010 13:25 Ace wrote: L those are NOT chaff posts. Line by line post PROOF of me railing on BM/Chez because of their playstyle. Don't give us a link to a search result: POST IT. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF L. Where is the posts of me sitting back not doing anything? How come you didn't address where I called you out for contradicting yourself? You said when I'm scum I sit back and and watch the town devour itself but earlier in the game I pulled a quote of you saying your glad I'm talking alot. Come on, I'm pulling your lies and contradictions up left and right and you have no answer except to post the same junk. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF L SHOW US. I did post proof. Go read my posts in the last 2 pages. If you're too myopic to read the words on the fucking page, me re-posting shit isn't going to change anything. I was even charitable and used your OWN FUCKING EXCUSE POST as an example. As for the bolded portion, no, I quoted Zato's analysis. You don't 'sit back and make no posts'. You 'sit back and provide no positive contributions'. You DO post a lot, you just don't say very much. In this game you avoided talking about blue targets, didn't bother thinking about how to trap mafia with a medic list. Didnt' get into a discussion about how to use DT checks to pressure people. You. Did. Nothing. Well, besides try your best to bus BM/Chez and paint me red. Radfield caught on to your stupidity and I figured I'd give you a full profile using Zato's post, which you yourself described as a spot on analysis post game. Good thing you're now pretending that isn't how you play mafia, amongst other things. Enjoy that Ace. Its the sound of your bullshit thorned defense getting shredded. | ||
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On June 26 2010 13:29 bumatlarge wrote: Off topic but a few terms im not faniliar with -lylo -ebwop? -jeep im sure they are those watchamacallits that are the first letter of each word, but i cant put my finger on them Lylo is lynch or lose, a situation in which town has to lynch a mafia or it loses numerically. EBWOP is editing by using another post. Jeep tells were a bunch of tells that some mafia wizard used, then he revealed them and veteran players quickly stay away from them. New people do them quite often if they don't know about them, though. | ||
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LOL. IF YOU HAD BOTHERED FOLLOWING THE CONVERSATION, YOU'D KNOW THAT THE THIRD VOTE IN THE RVS PHASE THAT BILL MURRAY WAS TALKING ABOUT IS A JEEP TELL. THANKS FOR ADMITTING YOU ARENT DOING ANYTHING MORE THAN BEING AN ANNOYING PISSANT. As for the posts you're looking for, I already pointed you to them :3. Now be a big boy and read my posts instead of getting your slobbery vagina tears all over the mafia thread. | ||
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On June 26 2010 13:48 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2010 13:41 L wrote: Where are the jeep tells pointing out you're scum? LOL. IF YOU HAD BOTHERED FOLLOWING THE CONVERSATION, YOU'D KNOW THAT THE THIRD VOTE IN THE RVS PHASE THAT BILL MURRAY WAS TALKING ABOUT IS A JEEP TELL. THANKS FOR ADMITTING YOU ARENT DOING ANYTHING MORE THAN BEING AN ANNOYING PISSANT. As for the posts you're looking for, I already pointed you to them :3. Now be a big boy and read my posts instead of getting your slobbery vagina tears all over the mafia thread. Got ya! Here is the tell right here: http://67.222.17.61/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_Mafia So if you are using this as a basis for me being scum show me where I'm the third vote on a wagon. Go ahead. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131987¤tpage=23#451 Got ya! Ok if anyone has any fucking sense about what RVS is, and the dumb "3rd voter on a wagon is scum" theory then read Bill Murray's latest posts. Forget bum/laxer - we've got some straight up ridiculous logic right in front of us. Its not a random theory. Its a jeep tell. You tried to hound bill on his 'faulty logic', but he was pulling one of the most standard pieces of analysis. Weak Ace. Now you're thinking I'm applying the Jeep tell to you? Herp Derp. I'm talking about the You/Bill spat, champ. Get with the times. Get those cataracts removed so you can read the text in front of you before getting smug. | ||
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Please reread the last two-three pages if not the entire game. I'm going to get some sleep, if I don't you'll just keep the spam up. | ||
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On June 26 2010 14:17 Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2010 13:57 L wrote: On June 26 2010 13:48 Ace wrote: On June 26 2010 13:41 L wrote: Where are the jeep tells pointing out you're scum? LOL. IF YOU HAD BOTHERED FOLLOWING THE CONVERSATION, YOU'D KNOW THAT THE THIRD VOTE IN THE RVS PHASE THAT BILL MURRAY WAS TALKING ABOUT IS A JEEP TELL. THANKS FOR ADMITTING YOU ARENT DOING ANYTHING MORE THAN BEING AN ANNOYING PISSANT. As for the posts you're looking for, I already pointed you to them :3. Now be a big boy and read my posts instead of getting your slobbery vagina tears all over the mafia thread. Got ya! Here is the tell right here: http://67.222.17.61/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_Mafia # Third person on a wagon is likely to be mafia (+15) So if you are using this as a basis for me being scum show me where I'm the third vote on a wagon. Go ahead. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=131987¤tpage=23#451 Got ya! Ok if anyone has any fucking sense about what RVS is, and the dumb "3rd voter on a wagon is scum" theory then read Bill Murray's latest posts. Forget bum/laxer - we've got some straight up ridiculous logic right in front of us. Its not a random theory. Its a jeep tell. You tried to hound bill on his 'faulty logic', but he was pulling one of the most standard pieces of analysis. Weak Ace. Now you're thinking I'm applying the Jeep tell to you? Herp Derp. I'm talking about the You/Bill spat, champ. Get with the times. Get those cataracts removed so you can read the text in front of you before getting smug. It's me saying that Bill Murray was WRONG and he was. He didn't even know that the RVS doesn't just end whenever he feels it does. Hell people still didn't even vote at that point. I told you that tell is outdated. In fact here let's go back look at past games (not taking out the strike marks): MM 3: Show nested quote + nemY: (3) Chezinu Ace Vivi57 Amber[Light]: (3) redtooth Ace Chezinu Amber[Light] Scamp Vivi57 Chezinu Scamp: (1) redtooth Chezinu redtooth The "theory" holds true in 1 out of 3 cases. Chezinu was scum. In the other cases the third voter was town. That's not entirely true. Look at the voters on the Nemy and Scamp lists. The scamp list has redtooth twice; The vote list didn't even hit 3 individual members. , this... isn't the list for MM3. The list is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110491¤tpage=2 Of the final vote placements, there is only 1 player who is the third member on a train. It is Chez as mafia. Of the vote placements as they came, Chez is also third in the same vote train, and redtooth was third on a train against Chez himself but switched. So in MM3, either the efficiency of the tell on day 1 is 100 or 50%. Forging your data is bad news too. MM2: Show nested quote + vx70GTOJudgexv: (5) RebirthOfLeGenD Ace nemY mikeymoo Chezinu Malongo: (4) Zato-1 vx70GTOJudgexv L HeavOnEarth Chezinu mikeymoo: (1) Vivi57 Scamp Chezinu Chezinu 1 out of 3 again! Again, if you go and look at the actual remainder votes, you got them wrong. Again you didn't even pick the right votes; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=109318¤tpage=2 At the bottom of the page. There are actually only 2 people who finish day 1 in third, Nemy and I. Nemy is mafia. I am not. Chez on the mikeymoo 'bus' sits there for a grand total of 4 hours with nearly no activity in the voting thread and switches away. So again, 50 or 33% here depending on if you're using resultant or running totals. You getting the votelists here wrong is particularly odd given that you were the one pushing to get judge killed and the Zato post we are referencing in the thread is from this game. MM2 continued: Show nested quote + Chezinu: (3) Ace vx70GTOJudgexv mikeymoo mikeymoo: (6) RebirthOfLeGend Chezinu Scamp Vivi57 Zato-1 L 1 out of 2! Awesome MM1: Show nested quote + JimTudor: 3 Foolishness Pyrrhuloxia Qatol SatuoxKisei 6 Foolishness Qatol Chezinu Zato-1 Infundibulum Pyrrhuloxia Infundibulum 5 Foolishness Qatol Pyrr SugiuraMidori Zato-1 Vivi57 3 Pyrr Qatol Foolishness Zato-1 1 for 4. Slight problem. Only 1 of these is a day 1. Ignoring that, however, the SatouKisei votes are against a mafia member, and those aren't vote lists from the start of the game when RVS and random wagoning is important. The Vivi wagon, for instance, was your game ending win lynch for mafia; who cares about blending in if you can just end the game there. Cutting those two out, we're back to 50% ... In a mafia game wherein the random probability of hitting mafia is 2/9, or 22.2%, the 3rd player Jeep tell has outperformed random picking in EVERY SINGLE GAME, even when you ignore context like you have. I'll go over this with 2 objections to what you're trying to say here: 1) The first is that you weren't trying to argue that BM was 'wrong'. You had no idea what bill murray was talking about in the first place. The post of your I linked has you overtly going "what the fuck is RVS". Read bill's earlier posts; he uses RVS perfectly well. It stands for random voting stage. You didn't attempt to build an argument around why the Jeep tell was wrong; There was not a single shred of evidence posted by you prior to this post, on day 2 after BM already flipped green that you put up against the RVS. Instead you just painted Bill red. Its perfectly fine to disagree with his position and attempt to take it down, but to make the leap from suggesting a jeep tell as a method of analysis to going straight red isn't a critique. Its making an excuse for painting someone red. Zato's analysis of you puts that as your main goal as mafia, and its served you well.. 2) The second objection is that you're actually wrong. The games you've shown actually prove BM's point. I've put my notes in bold above. The second point is actually rather irrelevant. Look at how discussion on this page has gone; Ace tries to imply that I've been attempting to use the Jeep tell on him and intentionally confuses issues to push people away from the initial characterization Zato made of Ace. Go look at MM2 and read the analysis and the posts linked, its very informative. And now, to sleep for sures because I gotta get up in 5.5 hours, dawg. | ||
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As for this: On June 27 2010 02:49 Zyrre wrote: L's latest post is the only one from him I've read as somewhat convincing(as in, it looks like Ace's argument was the weaker one). Namely that Ace just copied the voting lists and took the third person on there when there had been switches before that person voted. Ace did write he would ignore that, but it did severely alter the results. Also some incorrect statements from L in there, for instance: Ace's post against it was this one: Show nested quote + no its not. It's pretty bad theory and only pans in the most simple of newbie games. The "third" vote idea doesn't even make sense because BM doesn't understand what it meant. It had nothing to do with the 3rd player voting - it had everything to do with trying to catch where a scum would vote without drawing attention aka getting on the wagon but without being blamed for tipping it. Being that scum will vote wherever they think will allow them to escape scrutiny that statement is nonsense. I interpret this as: It doesn't apply to a lot of players and should only, if ever, be used as a slight suspicion together with independent stronger suspicions. If you interpret that in that way, then it isn't a grounds for killing someone. Even if you don't think the idea is 100% foolproof (and none are, in this format), that doesn't mean someone is scum for suggesting it unless there's a scum motive behind it. BM's post had nothing of that nature in it, which looks pretty obvious in hindsight. I've always said the easiest way to figure out what mafia are doing is the following; Look at what mafia's objective is, and think about the different routes to get there. Day 1, for instance, we have a MASSIVE train on T7. T7 talks up just enough to get back under the radar and survives, mostly due to another push against T2. T9 was the secondary target, but they don't get nailed. Both T7 and T9 look terrible after the voting falls into place as multiple swings make them likely beneficiaries of mafia seeded argumentation and vote swings. If T7 and T9 were both town, the MOMENT night ended and radfield died, mafia members would have started their shit train up. 1 team would spark the move, the other could lay low and just take the heat off. Even if the aggressor team died for their move, they would have a non-suspicious backup in subsequent lynch or die days for town. That didn't happen at all. Instead we had a huge push (read Page 32 and onwards) to create a binary between Ace and I. Even Darth tries to play it up. Generally speaking, the two easiest teams to get killed were ignored by mafia; Why? Well, it follows that one or the other are mafia. I still personally think Ace/Darth is the other mafia team, but I wouldn't be surprised if T7 or 9 was laying low and using the Ace/Me binary to get away with little posting. In terms of posting habits, Day 2 has produced only 6 pages of discussion. Day 1 produced almost 4 times that. Many people are VERY satisfied with the direction that town is going and many people don't feel the need to post. That is pretty telling in and of itself. | ||
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Canada4732 Posts
On June 27 2010 09:57 YellowInk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2010 09:42 L wrote: The reason why people aren't active is that they're happy with where the vote is falling, which means mafia's cool with me dying. As for this: On June 27 2010 02:49 Zyrre wrote: L's latest post is the only one from him I've read as somewhat convincing(as in, it looks like Ace's argument was the weaker one). Namely that Ace just copied the voting lists and took the third person on there when there had been switches before that person voted. Ace did write he would ignore that, but it did severely alter the results. Also some incorrect statements from L in there, for instance: You didn't attempt to build an argument around why the Jeep tell was wrong; Ace's post against it was this one: no its not. It's pretty bad theory and only pans in the most simple of newbie games. The "third" vote idea doesn't even make sense because BM doesn't understand what it meant. It had nothing to do with the 3rd player voting - it had everything to do with trying to catch where a scum would vote without drawing attention aka getting on the wagon but without being blamed for tipping it. Being that scum will vote wherever they think will allow them to escape scrutiny that statement is nonsense. I interpret this as: It doesn't apply to a lot of players and should only, if ever, be used as a slight suspicion together with independent stronger suspicions. If you interpret that in that way, then it isn't a grounds for killing someone. Even if you don't think the idea is 100% foolproof (and none are, in this format), that doesn't mean someone is scum for suggesting it unless there's a scum motive behind it. BM's post had nothing of that nature in it, which looks pretty obvious in hindsight. I've always said the easiest way to figure out what mafia are doing is the following; Look at what mafia's objective is, and think about the different routes to get there. Day 1, for instance, we have a MASSIVE train on T7. T7 talks up just enough to get back under the radar and survives, mostly due to another push against T2. T9 was the secondary target, but they don't get nailed. Both T7 and T9 look terrible after the voting falls into place as multiple swings make them likely beneficiaries of mafia seeded argumentation and vote swings. If T7 and T9 were both town, the MOMENT night ended and radfield died, mafia members would have started their shit train up. 1 team would spark the move, the other could lay low and just take the heat off. Even if the aggressor team died for their move, they would have a non-suspicious backup in subsequent lynch or die days for town. That didn't happen at all. Instead we had a huge push (read Page 32 and onwards) to create a binary between Ace and I. Even Darth tries to play it up. Generally speaking, the two easiest teams to get killed were ignored by mafia; Why? Well, it follows that one or the other are mafia. I still personally think Ace/Darth is the other mafia team, but I wouldn't be surprised if T7 or 9 was laying low and using the Ace/Me binary to get away with little posting. In terms of posting habits, Day 2 has produced only 6 pages of discussion. Day 1 produced almost 4 times that. Many people are VERY satisfied with the direction that town is going and many people don't feel the need to post. That is pretty telling in and of itself. L, I agree with your general arguments here, but they also apply in reverse with you being the mafia and Ace/DTA being the town. Since I don't see either of you as having a stronger position as outlined in my earlier posting, I'm after the inactives that have a good chance of being mafia. I agree that the idea that the mafia are comfortable with where things stand is disconcerting, but I don't see any way to make this vote go elsewhere with just over an hour left. I think DCLXVI's vote on Team 7 is trash, so if I were going to agree to any kind of train voting, it'd be on Team 9 for reasons similar to my alignment against Team 7. Consider this a call out - if you're here, post. Just spam "I'm here" if you've got nothing else pressing to say. I kinda relooked at the votes and it seems that T9 WAS trying to shitball T7 asap after the day started, which would make sense if T7 is town and T9 is mafia as per the above analysis. The only problem I have is that there was very, very little in the way of thread pushing, just very light taps. I am, however, very surprised at the overall level of activity that we're getting from everyone, not just T7. If I could, I'd prefer hitting T9 today because of how it fits into the above pattern, but frankly we don't have enough time to move the train and an attempt to move it would kill me, which means we'd be in Lylo tomorrow and that would be bad. | ||
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