|
On June 04 2010 14:15 LunarDestiny wrote: Flamewheel did mention something about mod killing the inactive (those who didn't vote). Someone got to confirm with Flamewheel on that matter about will he really mod kill the inactive.
For the first lynch, I want the target to be an inactive (posted minimum to stay alive) and also has clues relating to him.
I'm SO glad we agree on something!
|
On June 04 2010 14:25 DarthThienAn wrote: ebwop: my 1000th post is probably the shortest I've made all game and about the game rules.
lulz. epic. And I no longer recognize my own avatar =[. WHY COULDN'T MY TRAINER PRESS B AND STOP ME FROM EVOLVING. That appears to be a corsair.
|
On June 04 2010 14:31 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 14:26 YellowInk wrote: Via a PM conversation, a player believes that my calling people out for their errors and laying suspicion on them for it may appear to be a pro mafia style - at least to players who have not played very much (or any) mafia. In reality, it's quite the opposite. Even if there were no elected role, I would be going after these same people aggressively for their errors because I am town. It is the responsibility of every townie to point out when anyone makes flawed arguments or supplies bad information. If we didn't and just trusted each other to pick out the truth from the lies, maybe some townies would be deceived by some of the information some of the time, weakening the townie position.
Consider the flip side - if a mafia player goes after everyone aggressively in the same manner, they're drawing attention to themselves. Such players are likely to be investigated - NOT because a detective necessarily expects them to turn up mafia, but because if they do, it not only gives the DT the name of a mafia, but also a number of people who are highly likely to be town! If a DT were find me mafia, they could reasonably conclude that it's likely that BB, LD, and Zeks are town. Of course this isn't 100% since 1) good mafia players will also cast suspicion on fellow mafia to help avoid this kind of collateral damage and 2) if taken as truth before I am hung, I could be a Miller. In any case, mafia playing aggressively like this can give the town a whole lot of information if and when the truth gets out.
As such, most mafia generally have to play fairly quietly. Enough to maintain a presence in the thread, but not so much that they'll open themselves up to getting caught in a lie or give the town too much information if they are found red. This being said, play styles do vary and some people will play mafia roles counter to this stereotype, but it is a highly risky move for the reasons outlined above.
This is why my aggressive play style gives evidence that I am pro town.
I'm inclined to back him up on this, because it's true. I'm pretty sure he's town, given his insane level of activity and aggressive use of Finger of Suspicion. However, don't overdo the aggression, bro. You'll just end up confusing people and then the mafia can sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch us lynch ourselves to death.
This is true in the mid-late game especially. This is why we need to ensure in the early game that people cannot lurk posting at minimum - or even posting a lot but avoiding posting anything of substance.
However, because of the flaws in your campaign post (though I know you don't agree with me) I have to strongly oppose you being elected. It's not like I'm looking to bandwagon you on day 2 or anything (or Zeks for that matter). You're very solidly on my 'unsure' list. To be fair, I bet if every single player posted as much about their thoughts on the game as you did, I'd be able to pick apart far more than 6 posters. That is to say, I'd tag a number of non mafia as suspicious. Not everyone has great logic, but mafia by their very role need to put false information into their posts... or avoid putting anything of relevance into their posts.
Players like Darth, MTF, and crate I lean towards pro town because their thoughts are fairly well reasoned and they are contributing to the thread. This doesn't mean that they're 100% clear, but it's the sort of activity that I want to see from all the posters.
|
On June 04 2010 14:38 LunarDestiny wrote: Hmm... I took a look on how many posts yellow ink made.
TL Mafia XXVI 61 68 172 187 190 197 199 210 215 216 222 223 228 230 251 252 261 262 272 274 276 280 283 285 286 288 311 315 316 317 320 321 327 329 335 338
Then I look at my numbers of post for comparison... TL Mafia XXVI 15 40 110 118 121 130 136 141 155 157 240 263 266 267 268 273 275 277 296 298 299 302 303 306 312 319 324 330 336
I consider myself posting a lot.
But Yellow Ink man... most of his posts are pretty damn long. Either he is trying to be the Master Mafia, or he has no life and is pro town.
Ahaha, fair enough. The truth is I love gaming. I said this early in my campaign (in response to Darth saying he'd be active). I'm doing other things online as I play here, though, so it's not a huge burden for me. I'm sure it's much the same for other active posters. Play a game of SC2, check & respond to mafia, rinse and repeat.
I have a life though! =\
But I do love gaming!
|
On June 04 2010 14:50 DCLXVI wrote: My impressions of the candidates: YellowInk: I don't like how he just seems to jump around accusing everyone. He also seems to think that the ink "clue" makes him a perfect candidate: easily cleaned or mafia, which is wrong. I have no idea what he will do in office, but I hope that if he gets a position he does not continue to act like he does now pointing fingers at everyone. Either dumb mafia or hotheaded townie
I just want to make sure you've read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#361 since it responds to the thoughts you've expressed here. Also, with some of my longer term views re: hotheadedness http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#368
Maybe you were writing this post went up before you had the chance to read them since they were two of my more recent posts. You need not worry that I would be reckless in office.
|
Some closing thoughts before I head off to bed.
At this point in the time of day, I think it would be a bad idea for any new candidates to present themselves. Because of how few people have voted so far, I'm concerned that mafia may attempt to present one of their own "because they don't like the candidates that are up so far", claim their credentials as having no suspicion etc etc and rack up just enough votes to land them at least the pardoner's slot. Between a few mafia vote contributions (not all, this would be asking for a mass mafia suicide) and swaying some of the less experienced populace, I think a tactic like this might be effective (except that I'm warning you all so don't let it happen!)
Among the candidates currently present, you all already know how I feel about BB and Zeks. Though BB has been posting more reasonably since after his massive reply to my calling him out. For this reason I would most prefer to have DTA as my pardoner. Of course I'm not 100% sure he's town, but I think he's the most likely to be town of what's presented and I would be highly suspicious of anyone else presenting themselves for election so late.
So please put in your votes!
Vote YellowInk for mayor! and DarthThienAn enough votes for pardoner so mafia can't squeak anyone in.
|
Good morning, everyone!
It's good to see a bit of discussion about the candidacy and how people are thinking. Let me just take a moment to put out a few quick responses to some of the things directed my way.
@MTF I decided to have a bit of fun with the end-of-post gimmik. I'm not doing it every post since with how much I've been posting it might just get annoying, but it's all in good fun.
@deconduo I look forward to your response - we havn't heard much from you this game. However considering your post was about 9 hours ago now, this is putting whatever information you want to present very close to the end of the day. In the future it's really important to get as many of your thoughts out earlier so that people can react and talk about them.
@barth It's been said that clues in the day 1 post are often vague or nonexistant. This is a beginners game, so I expect the clues to not be too oblique - but any way you cut it it'd be very risky for me to put myself in the public spotlight like this if I were red. I've previously outlined much more effective strategies I could have chosen if I were mafia.
@Zeks It's only viral now because you've posted it! With respect to lynch targets, I'll put together a list after this so that those people either get more active and get off of it or you'll have an idea of who is likely to be a target tonight.
@ElyAs Voting for ones self is commonly equivilant to abstaining which Darth had pointed out earlier. Though jiabung should be more active in thread, too!
@bumatlarge If elected, if I'm miller, this is a great victory for the town. Elected positions cannot be role checked (which is why I made my case on that a clue check can provide evidence that I'm clean if necessary - elected positions are not immune to clue checks). All the down side of miller would be negated.
With respect to some of the comments going around about people quietly getting on the DTA wagon - I don't feel that this sort of behavior is intrinsically scummy. Yeah, I'm wary of it, but I'm not going to be giving them The Finger for it. My interest at this point is in posting activity. I expect every townie to post and provide content. If you're posting without substance, you will be noticed.
If all the townies are posting, the mafia have to choose between these options: not post and get modkilled, post with no substance so I can lynch you, post bad content so I can point it out, or post good content and help the town. Pretty bad options for the scum, eh?
To everyone else - please make sure to get your votes in. I'd also advise you to follow the recent trend of talking about why you're voting the way you do. It helps us all get a read on you.
|
On June 04 2010 11:39 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: Gonna read the activity in the thread so far and post my thoughts tonight. You should all be excited to read my genius analysis.
And argh I didn't realize this was gonna be a clue game... I like to analyze people by their posts rather than clues, but oh well.
It's been 15 hours, still waiting for this.
On June 04 2010 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote: Sorry that I came in late, but I forgot about this.
I'll re-read today, but I will be gone for next 2 days (ARML)
It's been 13 hours, We still need to hear your thoughts today!
On June 04 2010 15:42 deconduo wrote: Been reading up on the thread. I think I'm going to vote for Darth, just because yellowink is too suspicious to me. Gonna explain my exact reasons when I get back from work.
It's been 10 hours, love to hear what you have to say.
On June 05 2010 01:12 Thegilaboy wrote: YellowInk: Just wanted to point out, deconduo is not posting at the end of the day as he is in Ireland. His end of the day and ours don't match up, and like he said in his post, he'll be posting more when he gets back from work. So I wouldn't worry too much about what times people are posting, as this is an international community we won't all be awake and active at the same times all the time
This is perfectly fine, but as his last post implied he was headed out to work, I'd expect his response coming up very soon.
Beyond these three, other people on my 'list' include pyro0ma5ta - No, not because you said you want to lynch me, but because you have contributed very little thought to the game. CompX - Pointed at ElyAs at the very beginning but has contributed almost nothing. jiabung - Helped collect a few clues at the very beginning but then has had nothing else to say. 3 Lions - Helped collect a few clues at the very beginning but then has had nothing else to say. Deucegladlier - Has had nothing relevant to say. Tyranos_NiveK - The one post you made of substance wasn't very clear. It seemed like you were directing it my way, but I'm not sure. We'd love to hear more from you! Zyrre - I know you're behind me, but I want to hear more from you in thread.
So that's 10 people, a third of our community that really needs to speak up more.
Cross referencing this with the 'clue' list we have as our primary targets: deconduo, TyranoS_NiveK, jiabung. These three must speak up if they intend to keep their heads.
Also worth noting here that I believe the only two people who have not posted in thread are currently LaXerCannon and Icysoul. LaXerCannon has a clue on him, so if he shows up to avoid modkill, he better be posting some good substance and not just trying to skate by with an 'oh hi, I'm here' post.
I'm not too familiar with these forums - is there an easy way to search a user's posts in a given thread? I couldn't get the search engine to do so - it wanted me to search for specific content as well. It seemed like LD was able to do this.
Vote YellowInk for Mayor! (because Zeks loves it)
|
On June 05 2010 02:49 sputnik.theory wrote: Also, it's my impression that the 'day' ends at 11:00 KST and I plan on voting closer to then. If I'm wrong someone let me know cause I'd hate to 'waste' my warning this early on in the game.
This goes for everyone regarding voting - especially in the mayor's election (because we need to keep the mafia from being able to just do a quick bandwagon sweep at the end): Just vote. You can change your vote. It's not a big deal. If something happens that you fail to get back in time, at least you're not getting warned/modkilled for it. If you're really indecisive you could just vote for yourself with intention to put a vote on who you mean to later.
The game description states that we're on a strict 24/48 time cycle which means that no one gets lynched until that time is up. There are other mafia games where people can get lynched if they hit majority before the deadline, they're immediately lynched - but I see this nowhere in this particular game's rules (MOD please clarify if I have misinterpreted). So just vote! You're even allowed to vote for yourself - no big deal if you're not in danger of getting lynched and you think there's a chance you might miss the deadline. Getting modkilled sucks for the game - never be inactive.
|
On June 05 2010 09:48 DCLXVI wrote:you should lynch LD because he references Haruhi season 2 in his profile Seriously though, trying to figure out DTA is driving me crazy. His posts feel townie, and he does everything he can to help the town. But many people just vote for him randomly and/or support him so quickly. Either we have overly trusting townies or he is mafia (with LD). I really hope not though. lol at me "possessing the printer" causing it to explode ^^ Question DTA: who has been pushing lynch Tyranos? I know I have mentioned that he was on both list and YI did too?
I can field this one. I wouldn't say pushing, but if you look back at the discussion that occurred after crate asked who we would hang if we were mayor, one of the options put out was that we might have voting involved. A couple people in there mentioned (offhandedly) that they would probably lean towards Tyranos being their vote if it came to it. No one mentioned jiabung. Since the post where I made a short list, DD posted having returned from work leaving just the two targets. I advised DTA to hang jiabung because it costs the mafia almost nothing to just make a passing remark that they would lean towards Tyranos being hung.
In truth, since we have almost no information on either Tyranos or jiabung (which is the very reason they're on the short list to begin with), in the absence of outside information it's really a coin flip. Since a couple people mentioned Tyranos, I advised jiabung. If I had been elected mayor, I would have made my choice like this independently (explaining as I am now) in response to whatever voting might have occurred.
It's also worth noting that I would add LaXerCannon to this short list as well because he went from being totally inactive to just barely avoiding modkill. However a couple people had also mentioned they'd be fine with him being hung so the end result is the same that jiabung is the chosen lynch.
Going forward we will be looking especially hard at inactives. We can not allow mafia to hide in the shadows. Once there are no shadows we can get to the 'real' part of this game where we try to put together our heads and figure this out. It is my hope that everyone becomes active quickly so we do not lose too much time in getting everyone to come out.
|
I'm going to put this out there - I trust DTA. We're going to work together to root out every bit of scum in this town. The spotlight is going first on the people who are inactive. I am sure that we will quickly reach a point where everyone in the game is active. Unfortunately, the mafia are likely going to target active townies from the get go.
So to the medics I would say protect active people. Make it so that if the mafia targets active townies, they're going to get hits blocked. Pick out a couple or a few of the active townies that you think are likely to be town, then randomly decide who you want to protect. I specifically suggest a small element randomness so that it can't be predictable who you choose to defend.
To the detectives I suggest targetting the active players with rolechecks. Get some hard and useful information to work with right away. Moreso than the medics, pick a decent number of targets who you think are likely to be scum - I'd suggest 5 or 6 - and randomly choose among them. I again suggest an element of randomness to reduce the likelyhood that you would follow the same train of thought that your fellow detective(s) might choose.
Everyone else gets to sit tight of course since vigs can't hit on night one.
I would also like to put out there that if you trust myself or DTA, feel free to roleclaim to either or both of us (if you're roleclaiming to both of us, please specifically say so - if you do not, I will assume that you don't want your name passed on). We will work together sharing how many of what types of roles have been roleclaimed to us so that we can coordinate your efforts.
Understand that we won't be able to feed any info back except for suggesting targets since mafia are able to roleclaim to us just as easily as the blues. Also, if you don't trust either of us enough to roleclaim, that's up to you. Just know the door is open later on as well. DTA and I both hold power in that we can't be killed - so we make good focal points for information. The trick is always trust. So those of you who do, lets use it to our advantage and coordinate.
|
Good morning, everyone!
DTA's idea was a decent one since it might improve activity for you all to see what sort of first impressions you have given. I'm not going to use points or anything though.
CompX - You provided almost no content on day 1. You pointed at ElyAs, that's about it. You're going to need to be more active or you'll get lynched.
bumatlarge - You have been doing well so far. You have expressed your thoughts - such as wanting a mayor who didn't have a clue pointed at them, you've pointed a couple places where you think the best place for the lynch to go, and you appear to be putting a good deal of thought into your process. New mafia players who don't know what to say would do well to follow this player's pattern. There's nothing extensive in the way he's analyzing, he's just voicing what is on his mind.
Thegilaboy - You helped collect some clues and you expressed that you don't like that I'm overeager, but beyond this you havn't provided much substance. You're not on the short list, but I'd like to hear more about what is on your mind about the game at large.
Zyrre - I havn't seen a lot of substance coming from here, either. You've made a few posts, but you havn't said a whole lot. Like others who have posted but without substance, talk more about who you suspect and who you feel are pro town.
DCLXVI - You've expressed a fair number of thoughts. Definitely on the middle of the road in my opinion. You aligned with me fairly early, expressed suspicion in DTA, and noted TyranoS as a good lynch target. Express more of how you feel about everyone and you'll make a great active player.
|
On June 05 2010 13:08 LunarDestiny wrote: For detective: If your result shows mafia role, keep it to yourself.
If your result shows town role, you can use him to be your spoke person (there is a small chance that the person is godfather which shows up as townie in checks).
Something to note here. Never die silently with hard information. If you rolecheck someone as mafia but get killed the following night without having said anything, it's really bad for town. There are a few tactics to avoid this. One is to put the information in code into one of your posts, then give someone you trust the code. If your first rolecheck is mafia and you have no one that you absolutely trust, it's still probably worth picking out and trusting whomever you think is most likely to be town. In this way, if you are killed, the person with the code can 'codeclaim', point at the code, point out the mafia, and get townie credit all in one fell swoop, making the DT death have at least gained some value. Of course if you misjudged and ended up giving your code to mafia, you just gave a mafia townie credit - but they had to throw one of their own under the bus to get it. There are other ways to get your info out as well with varying risks and rewards, this was just one example.
If you find someone to be town, remember that just because you roleclaim to them does not mean they'll necessarily trust you. If you roleclaim to me, I'd give you targets and take your information with a grain of salt at the outset. But as the game progresses it will become clearer who is truthful and who is lying, and once your claim is shown true, I'll be able to take all the information you've given me at 100%. It should be similar for any other townie. The problem gets even more complicated as if a townie comes forward as a spokesperson for you, they're painting a big target on their head for the mafia to kill as well - the mafia don't want confirmed townies running around.either.
So as a DT, it can often be best to spread information quietly. Maybe you'll make a guess that a couple people are town and just give them all your results so that if you turn up dead they'll be able to come out with the info you found throughout your life (or maybe since one was mafia, the other will - but then you get into trouble with people tending to not believe the one townie claim).
The biggest point in all this is to not let your information ever go to the grave. Find a way to leave a trail.
|
To clean out the shadows, so to speak, I'd like to propose a clear policy of anti-inactivity. In these early days before we have any good targets to hang (if for some reason we do get good targets to hang we will of course go after named scum as a priority), I suggest that we target those who are inactive. The large scale purpose of this is not that I actually desire to hang anyone due to inactivity (since unfortunately most of these people are likely to be town - especially so in a game filled with new players), but to impress the importance that we cannot effectively combat the scum if people lurk.
Therefore, I propose the following requirements to all posters: You must post your thoughts on at least four different people each day. Give reasoning (this is important). These thoughts must be spaced out such that two of these posts must be at least 12 hours apart. That is to say you can talk about 3 people at one point, then just sometime later in the day you have to give thoughts on another person. This is a bare minimum requirement. I encourage people who really are town to go ahead and post as much of their thoughts as they are willing.
It is also important that you post as much original thought as you can. Since this is not something easily judged, I'm not putting it in the above requirements. However the mafia will be forced to conceal their intentions in some way - and one of the easiest ways they could choose to do so is to just parrot the thoughts that others have already expressed. So if you're town, don't do this! You may agree with their thoughts and voice that you do so agree, just don't count it as one of your four thoughts for the day.
The consequence for failure to meet this policy will be that you will be eligible to be hung solely on the basis of your inactivity. In this early game, we will often not have great scum targets. If everyone were to talk a lot, we might have some decent reads on folk. Furthermore, we'd have more information in the mid to late game from all of this early talk to figure out who is mafia.
Please discuss your thoughts on this policy. This is something the town has to agree upon since people are lynched by majority vote. I think it is clear how this policy will have a long term effect of benefiting town.
|
On June 06 2010 01:12 LaXerCannon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 21:36 MooCow wrote: Whoa lots of reading after waking up!
The first posts that kind of "shocked" me were LaXerCannon and 3 Lions, just because they haven't been very active and they start the night phase by instantly trying to link people to clues. I know 3L gave a reason but meh seems a bit suspicious to me. What would you like me to do then ? I just thought I'd do something before I went to sleep or I'd be hounded more for being inactive. LaXerCannon, I think your posting at the start of the night phase with analysis is fine. It isn't intrinsically suspicious. To the point, however, it does not excuse your day 1 inactivity - this is still highly suspect. Just post more (as you have already said you will).
|
With respect to activity on day 1...
These are the people who I would deem clearly worthy of hanging based on inactivity: CompX Deucegladlier Icysoul jiabung LaXerCannon Misder supernovamaniac TyranoS_NiveK
Note that it's not worth wasting a lynch on someone totally inactive and thus at risk of modkill, so Icysoul (and LaXerCannon - though he posted right at the end) got a pass, so to speak. Obviously we also hung jiabung, but there's still a lot of people on this list. Note that supernovamaniac and icysoul each have a warning for failure to vote.
These are people I feel could be considered for hanging based on inactivity. Note that some of these players have posted several times on day 1, but if you read through them you can see that there was little substance. There is a little bit, but if we were to allow everyone to put so little into their posts, we would all be slain by the mafia long before we would have enough information to figure out who they are.
ElyAs Hugoboss21 littlechava Zyrre TheGilaboy pyro0ma5ta sputnik.theory deconduo
Let me just impress that I don't particularly think that any of these people are townie or scum. The problem is that they need to talk more about their thoughts of the game and other people so that there are no shadows for the mafia to hide in.
|
@LaXerCannon and Thegilaboy concerns expressed
I don't see why the 12 hour thing is a challenge. You have a 48 hour window. This means you could post at hour 0 and hour 40 and you'd be fine. Or you could post at hour 24 and hour 36. It doesn't much matter to me. I'm sure almost everyone here has a job/school/regular obligations. Over the course of 48 hours you should be able to find two times to post.
The purpose of the 12 hour policy is to prevent someone from sitting down and posting once (or in one sitting nearly back to back) in the entire 48 hours. I want to hear your impressions at different times in the day (at least twice). Does this make more sense?
|
Sorry for the confusion, you guys are right, it could be a little bit ambiguous in reading it. However, if you were to try to post twice a day (IRL days) 12 hours apart, that means you'd have to have a strict schedule of always posting at 12 hour increments! That's unreasonable cause for lynching even if you practically live on the computer!
|
Let me just reinforce what I said earlier. Medics should protect active players - preferably those who appear pro town. In fairness, we really have only a small amount of information and it's not fair to say who is much more townie than another on this night.
If actives get killed by mafia while we lynch inactives, we're going to come up short at the end and not have enough info to root out the red
If we protect the actives, the mafia have to either choose to hit actives with higher KP (reducing the number of kills), get blocked (reducing the number of kills), or target inactives. All of these cases are beneficial to us because it either slows down the mafia kill rate, giving us more time to figure things out, or it gets us to a state of game where we're no longer lynching people for being inactive so that we should have enough information that we can get some good reads.
|
Similarly, Detectives should be role checking active players. Again, you need a random element like the medics so that you guys don't overlap. Pick some good targets (with preference for finding scum - I assure you that you're more likely to hit townie anyway) then roll a die. In a couple days when we've basically got everyone active, all this information pooled together will be enormously beneficial. If scum is currently hiding in the shadows, they will be forced into the light by our hanging policies. We need the DTs to root out the red that's standing in the light.
|
|
|
|