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On June 03 2010 14:01 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:29 DarthThienAn wrote: I mean, to be fair, all your profile is is you repeating YellowInk over and over. So if the mods were to make a clue, it would be related to... well, YellowInk, not something like swimming or whatever. Until you prove what else the printer explosion could be pointing to, you're definitely suspicious as mafia. Why would we elect you as mayor, if you're suspected to be mafia? ...
"If I were mafia, putting myself up like this would probably get me hung on day 2 or 3." Maybe that's what you want. Trade a mafia for a cop and take the mayor spot/protection away? If I were red, a smart cop would not make such a 1 for 1 trade. They would build up their circle first. This is also why they might look elsewhere rather than clean me right away. They would probably rolecheck someone night 1, then maybe clue check me on night 2 or 3 and then either pass on the info to their people, or if they found other mafia, roleclaim and name multiple reds in a single blow. Also, if I were red, I would be much more likely to survive longer if I had deflected or otherwise laid low (though not too low - contributing to discussion appropriately). This would keep the mafia KP higher for longer. By putting myself up for mayor I'm much more likely to get investigated by one or more of the DTs in the early game. And since I am pro town, they'll then be able to trust me with all of the knowledge they dig up and we'll be able to plan from there. They won't be able to do this with other mayors - unless they just trust and hope for the best. This is why I make an excellent mayoral candidate.
Personally, I think a cop would just straight up role check you, or someone else linked to clues. No reason to "save" your rolechecks, since you might die at any point, unless you have a very strong cluecheck.
And I mean, the whole, "if you were red" part proves my point doesn't it o.O. A cop would be forced to out you at some point and in the process out themselves. Mafia WANT the 1 for 1 trade, even if it potentially cuts back their kp, it keeps the rest of the crew alive longer.
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On June 03 2010 14:20 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 14:07 DarthThienAn wrote:On June 03 2010 14:01 YellowInk wrote:On June 03 2010 13:29 DarthThienAn wrote: I mean, to be fair, all your profile is is you repeating YellowInk over and over. So if the mods were to make a clue, it would be related to... well, YellowInk, not something like swimming or whatever. Until you prove what else the printer explosion could be pointing to, you're definitely suspicious as mafia. Why would we elect you as mayor, if you're suspected to be mafia? ...
"If I were mafia, putting myself up like this would probably get me hung on day 2 or 3." Maybe that's what you want. Trade a mafia for a cop and take the mayor spot/protection away? If I were red, a smart cop would not make such a 1 for 1 trade. They would build up their circle first. This is also why they might look elsewhere rather than clean me right away. They would probably rolecheck someone night 1, then maybe clue check me on night 2 or 3 and then either pass on the info to their people, or if they found other mafia, roleclaim and name multiple reds in a single blow. Also, if I were red, I would be much more likely to survive longer if I had deflected or otherwise laid low (though not too low - contributing to discussion appropriately). This would keep the mafia KP higher for longer. By putting myself up for mayor I'm much more likely to get investigated by one or more of the DTs in the early game. And since I am pro town, they'll then be able to trust me with all of the knowledge they dig up and we'll be able to plan from there. They won't be able to do this with other mayors - unless they just trust and hope for the best. This is why I make an excellent mayoral candidate. Personally, I think a cop would just straight up role check you, or someone else linked to clues. No reason to "save" your rolechecks, since you might die at any point, unless you have a very strong cluecheck. And I mean, the whole, "if you were red" part proves my point doesn't it o.O. A cop would be forced to out you at some point and in the process out themselves. Mafia WANT the 1 for 1 trade, even if it potentially cuts back their kp, it keeps the rest of the crew alive longer. From what I've read of your posting style so far, Darth, I think you're town. However this last post makes me wonder a bit. I just pointed out how if I get elected mayor and I am red, the cop will *not* need to 1 for 1 trade with me as you indicated. The cop will still get probably at least 2 red kills or have an otherwise effective inner circle. I'm not sure what else I can add to the argument, I'd just suggest you give the DT's strategy in such a position a little more thought.
No, I understand that. And yeah, that's what a smart cop will do. But at the same time - assuming you are red and become mayor and get clue checked at some point in the first few nights - finding mafia is a shot in the dark for cops. They'd have to wait until they have a second person, or enough innocent names, to roleclaim + trade. That might be too late into the game to work. We also don't want our cops (assuming we have more than 1) double checking you when they could be checking other ppl =[.
What I just remembered is that we have medics, which makes this gambit of yours a little more in your favor - but that also requires roleclaiming that we don't want, at least not until we lynch some mafia to cut down their kp a bit.
And, I think a lot of us, like me, are EDT time, and will be sleeping, so, don't expect too much when you wake up ^^.
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On June 03 2010 17:52 LunarDestiny wrote: Finished my term project. Now people are running elections... I will give my support to you Darth because you are pretty knowledgeable and was screwed pretty bad last game.
I'll admit it was pretty funny. lol. LD <3 I appreciate the support. You're cute. hahaha.
On June 03 2010 22:17 zeks wrote: Hi Town,
I’m running for office! I’ve played mafia a couple of times on TL, 2 years ago and just getting back into it. I’ve been chosen town for all of the times I’ve played – actually for those who remember I always got medic. I will be extremely active for this game thus I would love to have a “role” and be involved in the major conversations of this game.
I acknowledge the fact that people have drawn clues to me – and that my misreading on the DT role makes me somewhat suspicious. I implore you that everything I do is for the greater benefit of the town.
PRELIMINARY PLAN: The plan that I have is pretty much a rip-off of plans used in past mafia games. With all the finger-pointing going on already, I want to stress that we shouldn’t look too deep into day 1 clues. It provides us with leads and brings people into the spotlight, but what is happening now is that we’re having animosity and confusion in the town. We need trust.
Detectives: Now that I’ve understood that you can use consecutive role checks, I still think you should use them as quickly (or wisely) as possible. In fact, all our DTs should be role checking someone tonight. Assuming we have 2 DTs:
Detective #1 (if you’re numbered somewhere between #1 - #15): do a role-check on someone from #1-#15
Detective #2 (if you’re numbered somewhere between #16-#30): do a role-check on someone from #16-#30
If you check a red, awesome! Keep that in your list, and if he posts keep track of his behavior as well.
If you check a green/blue, you can make the decision whether to start the inner circle with that person. The reason I say that is the green/blue could be the Miller or the Godfather – assuming 2 millers and 1 Godfather, there is a small chance you could be checking one of them. Again, track that person’s behavior and see if there are any strong clues pointing to them…then you can decide whether to engage that person or not to start the inner circle.
Medics: Honestly I don’t have a good plan with them, I’d say protect our best clue analyzers for now until we start verifying everyone.
The detectives are the key to winning this game quickly and safely, so we want to make sure they at least use up all their rolechecks – thus they’d have to be alive by night 4 (if I’m not mistaken).
Also I previous mentioned that we should have someone compile all the clues / accusations…if someone would love to step up that’d be great.
FIRST LYNCH If elected mayor, I will lynch whoever the town sees fit; I know there’s no formal voting for tonight since the mayor gets the lynch call – but I will do a tally myself and everyone can vote for who they think should be lynched tonight.
If elected pardoner, I would hope that the new mayor will also do a vote for the first lynch. In that case I promise not to pardon the first lynch. I will also make sure in the future to stop nonsense bandwagons.
Well that’s all I have to say for now, I probably missed a couple things and there’s probably a couple flaws in my plan, but I am happy to answer all your questions the best I can. The important thing is more discussion so we can try to close these loopholes and come up with a very good strategy.
Millers come back as RED to DTs.. but you are absolutely right about the GF. Up to the DTs whether they take that 1 in 10 or however many risk though.
On June 04 2010 00:34 Zyrre wrote:So much to read, I like it bumatlarge's list of potentially implicated mafias looks good, couldnt find any more suspects. So far its zeks, Darth and YellowInk for mayor right? And the voting takes place and the end of day1?
Yup. Voting takes place during day 1, and ends at the end of day 1. ^^
On June 04 2010 04:41 sputnik.theory wrote: A question to people with more experience with the whole election dynamic: is it common for mafia to run for office? If so, I'd really like to see more candidates as even if we don't elect a mafia mayor it'd be easy for us to get a scum pardoner and that almost seems worse.
I definitely agree with this - I've never played with the mayor+election system so I don't know if it's common but we definitely need more than 3 candidates -_-.
On June 04 2010 04:41 LunarDestiny wrote: Also, I oppose the DT linking scheme and I don't encourage Dts to purposing target the same townie to form a link. The reason is dts only get a grand total of 3 rolecheck in the entire game. You are wasting 2 out of the 6 available rolecheck just to form a link between themselves which is not worth it.
Also, information sharing has limited usage and it's most important usage is to avoid overlapping in rolechecks in the future (which is you purposing form a link together, you already waste 2 rolecheck) so using 2 role checks to avoid future overlapping in role check is stupid.
Then there is overlapping in clue checks. As the game progress on, there would be SO many clues available, and the probability of overlapping in clue check is so small that you don't need to take much consideration out of it.
If dts happened to target the same person, then do it.
Agreed -
From being a DT in the past, it is relatively easy to form a circle as the only DT. There is no reason for the DTs to be linked together - if they are at some point, then great, but there's no reason to orchestrate it. Each of the town circles that they create can be equally effective.
Here's my mindset as a DT - check night 1. pro town read + pro town poster = PM, etc. last game, I added a pro-town poster without even checking him, and it went a long way for me and Radfield. BrownBear was (every night) vigilante, so in our circle, we had a DT, half of the game's KP, and a random power (Radfield) every night. Maybe I was just lucky, but to honestly, DTs are very powerful/instrumental in forming town circles.
On June 04 2010 04:46 LunarDestiny wrote: Yellow Ink, if you are pro town, then you are doing the absolute wrong thing. You had cause so much confusion which kind of hint you are mafia. If you are pro town, then calm down.
For the first election of mayor, I want the mayor to target the inactive but I don't want Yellow Ink since he is acting so suspicious and IF he happens to be a mafia, he would target an pro town inactive.
I think the point that a lot of people are making, YellowInk, is that you're talking way too much to seem innocent. I'm not sure I agree with this judgment, since the line is very thin between "too much as mafia" and "too much as town."
A lot of people find YellowInk suspicious, but his logic, again, isn't bad. The DT check can happen / be revealed later in the game.
On June 04 2010 04:56 Thegilaboy wrote: Holy cow this game is a lot more intensive than I imagined! Exciting none the less though. As it stands, I feel uncomfortable with voting in YellowInk not because of the clue that links to him, but his overeager attitude of getting in office. Just seems a bit off to me right now, only time will tell. Like Lunar said, mayor should take out inactives. But you cast for Darth so quickly, and that seems strange to me. Maybe it's because this is my first time playing mafia and I don't understand all the subtle things going on, but it seems too early on to be casting votes when we haven't heard from everyone, as well as given candidates enough time to say their piece.
People haven't really been casting votes, last time I checked =p. It was only LD who's voted (not for himself).
On June 04 2010 05:08 YellowInk wrote:LunarDestiny, I'm not looking for a mud slinging contest here. Everyone is suspect. I am. You are. Darth is. Zeks is. Noone is clear. This being said, your contributions to the thread are left wanting. There is some good information, but both here and in your previous posts, I wonder how much you really understand what's going on. To preface, I'm not so suspicious of LunarDestiny as I am of Zeks because his false information appears to be constant misunderstanding of how the game is played rather than supplying information that is inaccurate. Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 04:23 LunarDestiny wrote: Okay, I caught up on the progress: Reason I voted for Darth is I played a total of two games with Darth in it (Caller and Ace's). In both game, Darth had decent knowledge of the game and didn't make newbie mistake. He also supported lynching inactive in the early game where not much information is available. This does not make him a good candidate for mayor. This just means he plays a decent game. He could be just as red as the next guy - and since we have no good way to figure out if he is, this is a bad thing. This is also the very platform on which I am running for mayor. Show nested quote +Also, my advise to detective: Do not do what YellowInk is telling you. His action is very suspicious and those who are suspicious should not run for mayor before they are cleared. You can't run for mayor after being cleaned since the mayoral elections are on day 1. This game would be VERY different if DTs were able to do investigating before the elections. I invite everyone to read through my posts and think about if you would do that if you were mafia aligned and see if it fits. Then read through my posts and think about if you would do that if you were town aligned and see if it fits. The truth should become clear. Show nested quote +Also, use role check as early as possible (night 1 and every other night. Reason is that you don't want your rolechecks to be wasted if you somehow gets killed. Find someone whom you believe is totally innocent. This can be achieved by rolechecking on night 1. If you detect a anti-town, stay quiet and don't tell anyone about result. If you detect a pro-town then use him as your spoke person (not Likely you role checked the godfather). Using people as your mouthpiece is a strategy to protect the person who is actually speaking. However, I would warn each and every townie here that just because someone is telling you that they are the DT does not mean that they are! Perhaps on day 3 Mafia player A PMs Townie player B and tells them they know player B is townie and found that player C is mafia on night 1. Then when player B speaks up and says player C is mafia, player C gets hung, then player B gets hit by the mafia that night (3KP can still beat 2 medics) so that the mafia is never revealed. This is just one of many examples possible - the point is that using a mouthpiece like this is challenging and unreliable. It's important that people understand the whole story with respect to risks and rewards in these situations. Show nested quote + Another reason why you want to use those rolecheck as soon as possible because there is not much clues to pick from in the early game as oppose to the mid to late game. In the late game, there would be so many juicy clues that you want to check that it is almost as important as a rolecheck. Alternatively, you can choose use 2 rolechecks early while saving 1 rolecheck for later when you really need it. Remember, role check works almost always and gives much more information than a clue check which might not give you any result (fail clue check). This is all a fine way of thinking about it. I agree with using rolechecks in the early game. I just didn't want people to follow Zeks' advice to necessarily blow through all your rolechecks ASAP. Show nested quote +For medic: I advise you to protect those who are active and shown intelligence in the game but not suspicious to be a mafia. Mafia wants to create as much confusion in the thread as possible. They also don't want the town to have a good plan to finding them which means those who have a good plan tend to be the target. Good mafia players often are active and present intelligent thought in the game as well. It's not the end of the world if you do cover a mafia. I would tend towards protecting those who you tend to believe are town over those who are merely active and intelligent. Use your own judgement - and adding in a bit of a random factor (between various people you are thinking about protecting) can help make it difficult for mafia to predict who medics might protect. Show nested quote +For Vigilante: Stay calm man. We will need you after a few day (3 or 4) when the town would be in confusion at that point and need your one time kill to clarify things.
That is my advise to the blue roles. Remember, you don't have to follow what I am telling you but use this as a reference. If you are new to the game, you want to listen to everyone's advise to you and decide who's advise is the best follow it or incorporate these advises into a good plan. Good advice. I encourage research into your role outside this thread as well.
Honestly, I have a pro-town read on YellowInk. I agree with him on zeks - "misreading" rules and "poor" logic are exactly the kinds of things that mafia do. They present arguments that sound all fine and dandy, make you think they are pro-town, when they're really just spouting crap. Think before you post guys, so that you don't mislead us >_>. Mafia are already doing that - mafia are always on guard about what they say. The same is true for most blue roles, and the ones most likely to spout nonsense are either reckless townies or conniving mafia.
HOWEVER. Yellow, I'm not sure why you disagree with crate's whole medic analysis. It made sense to me. There shouldn't be a situation where a mafia gets hit AND the medic saves the mafia - after all, the vigi should be following what the thread says.
And actually, I find that activity doesn't vary with role. I've been about the same amount of active in every game that I've been in except the first one where i was just like "O_O what is going on". If you look at that game, Incognito had the town under his thumb because they were so desperate for leadership. When he turned up as mafia at the end of the game I was just like "... :o"
So active =/= town. The reason why I push for lynching inactives early is that, if you won't contribute later, you won't contribute now. Something new (for me) in this game is clues however. I urge you guys, DON'T STOP LOOKING AT CLUES. Don't spend all your time on it, but look at them, and point out a list of suspects. The Mayor should combine that with an inactivity list and lynch an overlap-er. So for whoever is Mayor, clue analysis will help a lot.
MAN. this posting makes me happy because you're all active while I'm asleep but it sure is tiring haha.
My mayor thing: I'm running because I know I'm town (like all the other candidates "know" they are town I guess haha). My plan for day 1 is simple, I kinda described it above: lynch an inactive linked to clues. In a normal game, it would just be lynch an inactive. But we have clues! :D (forgive me, I've never played with clues before) which means our first lynch doesn't have to be random.
Other than that, I just have a general plan of activity and I'd basically be playing as I normally do, analyzing the things I find important. lol. I honestly don't know what more you expect from me.
I'd like to add something: I wouldn't mind "stepping down" in favor of YellowInk. A lot of you don't buy his plan, but it makes sense to me. It's just something extra, to be honest, though. The whole clue thing is not the main reason why I like him as mayor. I just get a pro-town read on him, which is why I would support him. Mafia typically don't offer sound advice to the town, simply because they want to confuse the town. He's been doing quite the opposite, and I urge some of you to reconsider.
GOTTA GO BE POPULAR NOW GUYS.
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On June 04 2010 09:01 LunarDestiny wrote:People, I made a mafia war excel checklist for you guys. You don't have to use it. But if you are lazy to make one, then you might want to get it. Download Link
Sweeet deal =]
Is anyone else going to step up and run? I know we have Brown Bear to add to the list, but 1 or 2 more be good. It'd make it a lot easier to either catch the mafia piling all their votes in one spot, or to stop them from doing so.
On June 04 2010 06:34 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 06:22 DarthThienAn wrote:HOWEVER. Yellow, I'm not sure why you disagree with crate's whole medic analysis. It made sense to me. There shouldn't be a situation where a mafia gets hit AND the medic saves the mafia - after all, the vigi should be following what the thread says. It depends on the vigi and the medic both, honestly. Vig don't always follow the clear path of the thread - and for good reason. If the mafia can predict who the vig is going to hit, the mafia can use this knowledge to their advantage. A couple examples off the top of my head: 1) The given target of the vig could roleclaim DT and out another suspicious mafia, thus garnering themselves credit. 2) Another mafia could whisper in someone's ear roleclaiming DT and saying that the targetted mafia is mafia, thus garnering credit and perhaps gaining a unwitting spokesperson. There are a lot of twists and turns. I'm not saying vigs should go out and make random hits, but if they allow the hits to be predictable, the mafia will use that against us. It follows from this that medics similarly can't be too sure either - though I would hope that medics and mafia don't cross paths since that means the vig thought a player was mafia when the medic was similarly convinced the same player was town. This can definitely happen though - especially if a target is mired in contraversy.
Hm, yea. The whole idea of course depends on vigilantes following the town's votes. But I think you're still misunderstanding, so lemme lay out my interpretation of the plan:
ASSUMPTION: -vigilante never hits anyone without the town's suggesting it or voting on it. -medic doesn't protect anyone who the town would suspect enough to send a vig hit.
With those two intact, the only killing happening at night should be by mafia, except when we tell the vig to hit someone, of course.
SO: -medic successfully protects a hit on someone. -that someone cannot be mafia, because the mafia would never nightkill their own for no reason - it just doesn't accomplish anything lol, except maybe tricking the town into thinking that the vigs took a shot which is relatively useless. -since that person is town, and the medic is obviously town, the medic has a positive townie. hence, PM, etc. two townies now know who each other are, which is a big deal, especially if you add on a couple more or if by chance, the saved guy is already in a town circle.
The only real disadvantage to this plan is that mafia would know who's getting hit by vigilantes and can avoid doubling up on someone like that. However, it's a small price to pay when that's the way it will probably unfold anyway, and we have a potential positive read for medics as a reward.
Assuming I haven't majorly messed up in here, I think you should be able to agree with this argument.
On June 04 2010 06:47 MooCow wrote: All the mayoral candidates seem suspicious to me anyway.
Wouldn't it be so sick if all the current candidates Zeks, Yellowink and Darth were all mafia and just tricking us, since they all know who the mafia members are.
Since we are doing voting what if the public were to chose someone to be a mayor ( basing it from reading his posts and seeing if he is pro town ). Of course the person would have to agree but it would kind of be like a surprise to the crowd.
MTF looks like a town person to me, i might be completely wrong though. What do you guys think?
Which is why townies need to take it upon themselves to "run." Having all 6 mafia players run for office would be ridiculous, so by having 6 candidates, we guarantee having townies in there.
Side note: the most scummy thing about YellowInk right now is his use of the clue-check will clear me as the central part of his argument when he started running for mayor. But that's basically the only thing - his argument is logical otherwise and he's otherwise pro-town to me.
On June 04 2010 07:36 MooCow wrote: Maybe i'm being a bit too cynical but Darth posted that he'd be happy with you being the mayor or pardoner and now you post that you'd also be happy with him being either or.
If we do get you both as either Mayor/pardoner we should hopefully be correct or we'd be screwed for a long time if you both are mafia.
LOL. I don't why YellowInk's doing what he's doing =p. We're both thinking individually, and we both like each other I guess. I'm not in love with YellowInk, but he's been playing a lot better than people are giving him credit for, which is what I'm defending.
+ Show Spoiler [BrownBear's] +On June 04 2010 07:58 BrownBear wrote: Alright, I'm back.
And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious.
Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth.
YellowInk: He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship.
Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro.
zeks: he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad.
Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with.
DarthThienAn:
I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic.
I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor!
Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do:
1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum.
2) Pardon power roles if necessary If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game.
Here are my credentials:
Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times.
I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target.
I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me.
I AM NOT SCUM.
That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen.
Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen.
Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing:
I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office.
I hope you all agree with me.
Thanks for the vote of confidence man. For those of you wondering what he's talking about, we played "3 Kingdoms Mafia" which is quite different from a normal setup, but we MADE it closer to a normal setup by going for a neutral / "town" victory haha. Basically, I was the DT, checked Radfield and invited BB into my circle because I was sure he was pro-town. From there, we pwned the game although luck played a pretty big role and some other complicated things made it easy. lol.
On June 04 2010 08:06 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 07:49 onihunter wrote: oh and what exactly happened with Darth last game lmao. i'm curious >> Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 12:43 DarthThienAn wrote:On June 01 2010 12:43 LunarDestiny wrote: Night ends in 20 minutes and I suspect day will then end in the next minute. I will make sure of it >=D Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 12:52 DarthThienAn wrote: F5F5F5F5F5 F5F5F5F5F5 F5F5F5F5F5 F5F5F5F5F5 F5F5F5F5F5 Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 13:00 DarthThienAn wrote: Well I guess I'll just do it again.
LD, I "claimed" by quoting L's "I can shoot" Show nested quote +On June 01 2010 13:02 Ace wrote: DarthThienAn (Vanilla Towny) has been killed.
lol. oh the memories. =S
On June 04 2010 09:53 MTF wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 09:49 zeks wrote: Anyone have a list of inactives ?
I'm not gonna bother compiling this cause I'm probably gonna make another mistake on that There aren't many: barth AcrossFiveJulys Icysoul LaXerCannon supernovamaniac These are the only people who have yet to say anything so far. A few others have only made a single post.
I'm not sure any of those match up with the clues. That would be unfortunate =[. I'll have to look closer at clues when I get home.
On June 04 2010 11:22 LunarDestiny wrote: YellowInk, you don't want to know who L is. And you hope in the future you don't play a mafia with L in it because he always cause a ruckus (good and bad).
Hey, he's better than Bill Murray LOL.
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On June 04 2010 11:52 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:27 DarthThienAn wrote: Hm, yea. The whole idea of course depends on vigilantes following the town's votes. But I think you're still misunderstanding, so lemme lay out my interpretation of the plan:
ASSUMPTION: -vigilante never hits anyone without the town's suggesting it or voting on it. -medic doesn't protect anyone who the town would suspect enough to send a vig hit.
With those two intact, the only killing happening at night should be by mafia, except when we tell the vig to hit someone, of course.
SO: -medic successfully protects a hit on someone. -that someone cannot be mafia, because the mafia would never nightkill their own for no reason - it just doesn't accomplish anything lol, except maybe tricking the town into thinking that the vigs took a shot which is relatively useless. -since that person is town, and the medic is obviously town, the medic has a positive townie. hence, PM, etc. two townies now know who each other are, which is a big deal, especially if you add on a couple more or if by chance, the saved guy is already in a town circle.
The only real disadvantage to this plan is that mafia would know who's getting hit by vigilantes and can avoid doubling up on someone like that. However, it's a small price to pay when that's the way it will probably unfold anyway, and we have a potential positive read for medics as a reward.
Assuming I haven't majorly messed up in here, I think you should be able to agree with this argument.
I agree with your argument here. This is part of the ultimate goal of townies - to organize our forces. If we can manage this, mafia have almost no chance at winning. I was working under the assumption that we were not organized. The challenge to organizing lies with trust. If a power role places their trust in a mafia for whatever reason, it can be absolutely devastating to the town.
Well the good thing about this particular plan is that there is almost 0% chance of the medic trusting a mafia member, if they ever save someone from getting hit. The idea of the mafia hitting their own members to potentially forge an alliance with a medic is just so ridiculous and unfavorable for them that I don't see them pulling that stunt. Especially when an appropriate DT check can completely nullify that scheme. So in that sense, a power role would never be entrusted into mafia hands with this plan.
The only problem I might see is a misdirected vigilante hit, but hopefully, our vigis will hold back until there are two or three suspects that we need to check out/kill/clear all on the same day for more information or something like that. The vigilante part is really the only step in this plan that mafia can influence, in my opinion.
Also, no matter who becomes mayor/pardoner we better be organized -_-. Actually, I'm not even saying the mayor needs to do it. It's the whole town's responsibility to be organized, so anyone slacking off for whatever reason (unless it's real life hehe), get your head in the game, think about how you can help/contribute, and do it.
On June 04 2010 12:05 YellowInk wrote: To put out some other thoughts on my mind, LunarDestiny grows more suspicious in my eyes practically every other post. His most recent shenanigans are talking about how inevitable it is that mafia will get one of the two voted roles. To look back at the other things he's done, he has demonstrated a poor understanding of the rules, based his vote on Darth on previous game experience, and posted in disregard of things stated earlier in the thread (and it wasn't a time lag post, he had posted since). Earlier I had noted it in thread and chalked it up to new player error, but it just keeps happening.
LD, if you're really town, please stop and think more about what you're posting before putting it up. Think it all the way through to it's logical completion.
Because LD was so quick to vote for Darth in the early game, some of this suspicion bleeds on to Darth as well. In Darth's defense, though, his own posts have been very well thought out and beneficial to the community, so I still lean towards pro town on him.
As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past.
ON THAT NOTE: Something that I just noticed, more pplz needs to be talking plz. The activity level is decent but I wants more! I believe it is official the second half of Day 1. Keep the posts coming people, and if you're voting for someone, please explain your reasoning. Don't forget to abstain if you have no idea who to vote for (or vote for someone random), as we don't want to lose townies needlessly.
Modkills: Inactivity has been a problem in every mafia game so far. Inactivity is most easily defined as failure to vote. If you do miss a vote, you will be modkilled.
You can even vote for yourself, just don't get modkilled (for the vote-confused players at this point). Definitely do not miss the vote however.
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ebwop to clarify: what I meant by my last note is that, I'm actually realizing that a lot of the activity is from the same people. YellowInk, myself, zeks before he went to sleep o.O, LD, etc. 10 people tops are really active.
The rest of you need to post more. 20 ~inactives is a NONO. To the inactive list (props to MTF for this):
On June 04 2010 09:53 MTF wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 09:49 zeks wrote: Anyone have a list of inactives ?
I'm not gonna bother compiling this cause I'm probably gonna make another mistake on that There aren't many: barth AcrossFiveJulys Icysoul LaXerCannon supernovamaniac These are the only people who have yet to say anything so far. A few others have only made a single post.
I know AFJ posted saying he would post later, but the rest of you, post SOMETHING. barth I know has been in a game before so he has no excuse. AFJ as well but he's "covering" himself already. The other three of you, just post an introduction of yourself and your favorite artist or SOMETHING. Don't let us lynch you needlessly if you are town.
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On June 04 2010 12:37 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:33 DarthThienAn wrote: As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past. Ugh, is that how games here go? That will make the games really swingy. Have to work with what we're given though, eh? Oh, and Vote YellowInk for Mayor!
Well I wouldn't know haha. Never played with a mayor. Personally, I just go with the voice of reason.
Playing with people in the past gives you a sense of their style for play. For example, L, who you've seen around, is just a crazy guy, both when he's town and when he's mafia. So, lolol on that part.
I notice random people voting for me though. A little suspicious, without reasoning. I mean, I suppose I'm happy that you vote for me, but I'd like to understand why ^^.
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+ Show Spoiler [BB] +On June 04 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:44 YellowInk wrote: BrownBear, your post reeks of scum. A lot. If this were a game with experienced players I probably would hold off because I'd expect others to pick up on it as well. I'd let you try to make a couple more plays before pointing the finger. But since it's not, here's another incendiary post.
Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear. And here's why no one should listen to you Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 07:58 BrownBear wrote: Alright, I'm back.
And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious.
Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth.
YellowInk: He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship. It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none. So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool. There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad. Show nested quote +Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective. Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective. Allow me to quote you for a second: Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote: The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list.
If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently.
Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red.
You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is? Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively? I question your logic, good sir. I question it. Show nested quote +zeks: he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad.
Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on. If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing. Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious. Show nested quote +DarthThienAn:
I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic.
I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor! This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game. Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote: I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town.
Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is. By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate. Show nested quote +Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do:
1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum.
2) Pardon power roles if necessary If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know). And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing. Show nested quote +Here are my credentials:
Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times.
I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target.
I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me.
I AM NOT SCUM. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs. Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it. Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool... Show nested quote +That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen.
Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen.
Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing:
I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office. With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect. Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly. Show nested quote +I hope you all agree with me. I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on! And I think my stance is clear here :D Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you. PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up!
Dude I always thought it was Finger of Suspicion.
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On June 04 2010 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote: Sorry that I came in late, but I forgot about this.
I'll re-read today, but I will be gone for next 2 days (ARML)
Got my PM? Glad to have you ^^.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 04 2010 13:23 crate wrote: My thoughts on the election are that, well, zeks gets a plus because he's actually told us concretely what he's going to do (first lynch -> majority vote?) though if he's serious about that we should probably start voting for the lynch soon. I think his idea for the first lynch is very good.
Darth has a very large word-count-to-post-number ratio, but half of that is that he quotes entirely too much text when he only needs a sentence or two to provide better context :p
His plan for a day 1 lynch looks good (lynching inactives serves to force all players to be active, which benefits the town, and furthermore it's a metagaming play by discouraging lurking in future games which eventually leads to either lots of town victories or better play from at least the mafia side), but I think I'd be more in favor of zeks's method because we get information from a vote count.
He's been talking about strategy somewhat, but mostly
Brownbear, alright, so he's trying to get pardoner. I've not decided which office position mafia would like to have more ... pardoner is more obviously powerful in a way because it wastes a lynch, but the sheer fact that it's more obvious makes it less desirable. Upping mafia vote power to 8 instead of 6 can be a big deal too, so mayor is pretty good in that respect. Denying the town the protection and gaining the immunity to rolechecks that goes with either role is obviously huge. But anyway, I'm not trying to discuss that here; I'm posting impressions of the candidates, so I'll return to that.
His plan for what to do as pardoner is, well, pretty obvious (kill mafia, save good guys!). It sounds good, but it sounds like politician-speak so I don't think it means much. Most of his activity is either his campaign post or his recent discussion with YellowInk. Certainly this is more activity than the average player who's said, well, mostly nothing of substance--having an inactive elected role is wasting the position of invincibility.
YellowInk has put more words in the thread than probably anyone else. Much of it has been jumping on mistakes and claiming that he's clean and can be confirmed, a good deal of the rest has been poking holes in plans. I don't recall him saying what he'd do with his mayor lynch if he wins, but I could have missed it in my skimming the thread again in his sheer number of posts.
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Right now no one has really convinced me in this election, but I'd be voting for Darth or zeks over Brownbear or Inky. I like zeks's vote-for-lynch idea. I don't have a solid scum read on anyone right now, so let's look at inactives so far. As of MTF's post:
barth AcrossFiveJulys Icysoul LaXerCannon supernovamaniac
had not posted. Since, AFJ and supernova have posted saying they'll post later.
If we return to bum's compiled clue link list, we have the following people:
1. TheGilaboy 4. crate 7. onihunter 8. MooCow 14. zeks 16. YellowInk 17. DCLXVI 18. TyranoS_NiveK 19. jiabung 21. LaXerCannon 29. deconduo
I see LaXerCannon on both of those lists, so I Vote: Lynch LaXerCannon if the elected decides to go by majority vote.
I'll vote for mayor in the morning, since I'm going to bed soon. Let's see some names from the mayor candidates: who would you be lynching if you win? If you decide, like zeks, to go with a majority vote, who are you voting for yourself? Names and reasons, I want more information.
Even you Brownbear. Humor me for a moment even though you're not trying to win. Let's say some freak accident occurs and you do; answer both questions please.
I thought the first lynch idea was a given - any mayor who lynches without the town's approval = scummy to me.
Dude, who manages their quoting. lol. I just quote crap and respond to it. I spoiler the big stuff when I remember to.
I'll have to disagree with you on something though, crate. I think either YellowInk or BrownBear are the best candidates for office. I lean toward Yellow more because of a couple things:
1) The fact that BB goes for pardoner, a great position for mafia and also a position more "under the radar" is suspicious to me. 2) Both players > zeks. zeks has shown (to me) some relatively poor logic. These two have shown relatively good logic. Zeks was also the first one to announce his running, which is suspicious to me (mafia, of course, want the office). 3) I'm afraid that my love for BB is clouding my thoughts which is why I'm so tripped up on all of this.
@Inactives: I sent PMs to the inactives on that list, minus AFJ. supernovamaniac responded so far . If the others log on to TL, they'll see it =P.
I obviously didn't do my homework and cross check - like you said LaXerCannon is a great lynch target if he doesn't post by then. If not, this is my "lynch preference" inactive+clue > inactive > clue for day 1. So it'd come down to that. I'm assuming that the town would agree with me on this part since we have so little information.
So, I'd probably be lynching either LaXer, barth, IcySoul, or AFJ, in that order.
(reading YellowInk's response) I disagree with the bit about the modkill. I'd rather kill someone who's going to die anyway and preserve the town population count at this point. Maybe as a day 2 or 3 thing where we have more information, but at this point, I wouldn't mind lynching an inactive who will be modkilled anyway.
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Why is my post most recent =[. Where are you all? I'm sleeping soon but still >_>. It's kind of early, yea? :D.
On another note, people who read this: do what crate did and give your impression of me, YellowInk, BrownBear, and zeks. And anyone else who steps up as mayor. This is really helpful to the town, me personally, and is in no way helpful to the mafia. So write away!
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On June 04 2010 14:06 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 13:48 DarthThienAn wrote: (reading YellowInk's response) I disagree with the bit about the modkill. I'd rather kill someone who's going to die anyway and preserve the town population count at this point. Maybe as a day 2 or 3 thing where we have more information, but at this point, I wouldn't mind lynching an inactive who will be modkilled anyway. For the sake of argument, consider a game of mafia where we had no roles except vanilla townie and vanilla scum. It's clear that in a game like this, you never want to waste a lynch - it's the only way townies have a way to kill scum ever, even if it's completely random it is a net zero play. In truth, at the end of day 1 we do have some information, though it is limited - we have all of the posts that people have made thus far. So choosing a lynch victim based on the information we have is a pro townie play, even if it is still somewhat random. Now consider a regular game with roles like the one we're actually playing. If one were to argue that wasting the first lynch is pro town because we havn't done any investigating yet, this is implying that as the game goes on, the game evolves into a state where townies continuously gain advantage over time. This simply isn't the case. On day 2 and sometimes day 3, the town will still have little to no real 'hard evidence' on anyone. Our lynch victims will be chosen based on various reasonings - mostly that we think either the target is scum, or that if the target is revealed to be town it will strongly imply that someone else is scum, or to encourage a certain behavior (being active) so that we gain the capacity to root out the scum. It's the same on day 1 - we choose a lynch victim that will improve the state of the game such that we can find mafia. I avoid choosing to lynch someone who is likely to be modkilled because lynching such a person does not provide motivation. They were going to die anyway. As such this is a wasted kill. Therefore this does not benefit the town. Per my earlier post, I expect that AFJ, Elyas, and DD will be contributing more to the thread. If they don't, they're ignoring this kind of a warning and should be lynched. Does this make things clearer?
I see your point. Hmm.... If we get a heavy scum read on someone, then of course, lynch them. For a random lynch... I wouldn't mind lynching a lurker who's posted a couple times to survive, but hasn't done much otherwise. I was looking at the people who voted for me and TyranoS_NiveK falls under that category.
One thing - town DOES gain more advantage as time goes on. Mafia start out with such and such information. Town develop that information as the game goes by and get that in addition to their roles. Plus, more information is gathered not only through roles but also through posts. The longer the game goes on, the more likely a scum will contradict himself and be exposed.
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On June 04 2010 14:11 BrownBear wrote:
I like this. I don't think we lynch first day, though: just elect mayor. Unless mayor decides who to lynch? I'm not really sure about that. Rules clarification would be awesome ^^
Mayor chooses the lynch, but I think ultimately, town mayor will listen to what the people say and judge from there.
--CRATE I DID IT JUST 4 U.--
On June 04 2010 14:15 LunarDestiny wrote: Flamewheel did mention something about mod killing the inactive (those who didn't vote). Someone got to confirm with Flamewheel on that matter about will he really mod kill the inactive.
For the first lynch, I want the target to be an inactive (posted minimum to stay alive) and also has clues relating to him.
I'll second that.
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On June 04 2010 14:21 onihunter wrote: Darth: General agreement is he posts like a townie, so that's a plus. Also experienced, but that's neither a plus nor a minus. He also seems clear-headed.
Yellow: Posts a LOT. Seems quite defensive when criticized, and I can't really say that I like the guy =/. Just personal preference though, nothing really concrete. Also inciting lots of arguing and conflict that is unnecessary at this point in the game.
Beardude: I really liked him until he responded to Inkguy's attack. His responses weren't that coherent though imo, and he seemed really emotional in that post to me. Also he himself stated that it's personal between the two now, sort of alienating me. However, he IS running for pardoner specifically.
Zeks: There isn't really that much past the few posts that contained mistakes, so can't say much. Suspicious in that he's not a newbie to this game, but I think it's forgivable.
Overall, no one's quite solid, but I'd say that Darth slightly edges out the rest. Basically even for the rest.
Thanks yo.
BB said it WASNT personal. o.o
I'd like to see zeks post s'more. Where'd he go?
Correction: I'd like to see EVERYBODY post s'more.
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Yo, this ain't cool. flame's lightning-ing anyone who hasn't posted at least once AND voted.
major =[s.
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ebwop: my 1000th post is probably the shortest I've made all game and about the game rules.
lulz. epic. And I no longer recognize my own avatar =[. WHY COULDN'T MY TRAINER PRESS B AND STOP ME FROM EVOLVING.
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On June 04 2010 16:45 BrownBear wrote: Thread appears to have shut down for the night, so I will as well - see you all tomorrow!
Yeah man I was out zzz'ing by like 1am last night lol.
On June 04 2010 14:48 LunarDestiny wrote: Sorry Darth, but yellow ink had been posting a lot. Willing to be in center of attention even though you are winning in the election by miles and his only vote is from himself.
Because of yellow ink's huge postings record, I have to say yellow ink's chance of being mafia is very, very low. And your chance of being mafia is higher (no offense).
I am going to do what seem like a retard thing that most people hear wouldn't agree on: to change my vote to Yellow Ink (WHAT?). I weighed Yellow Ink's innocence against Darth's experience and chose the former.
Like I said before, mafia being Mayor is pretty much a GG. So I beg you guys to vote for Yellow Ink or change your vote to Yellow Ink.
On June 04 2010 17:02 LunarDestiny wrote: I don't get why people thinks YellowInk got good logic. Some of his arguments have major flaws in them. But that doesn't matter if he is willing to listen to logic and follow the majority. I would even go a step beyond and compare him to a pro town, a bit smarter Bill Murray.
Again, there is very little chance that YellowInk is mafia. I will repeat: Mafia do not want to present themselves as the center of attention. Mafia do not go to the thread and start accusing people left and right. Mafia also do not spam post like crazy.
We do not need a Mayor that is smart but might be mafia. We need a Mayor who is 100% pro town and also listen to the majority. YellowInk satisfy this.
To be honest, this is the train of thought I've had for most of the game. I've been reading pro-town for YellowInk for much of this game -_-, and the fact that he points fingers around like crazy (relative to everyone else) this early is something that makes him pro-town. The only thing that made me hesitate was the fact that another common move by mafia is to point the finger at everyone else when they are suspected at all (from the clue). So I wasn't sure which case this was, but his posting is very pro-town, so I'll agree to that.
Even if you don't like his logic, he's responded to mostly anything anyone has said to him, as well as to other people's ideas. I personally follow most of it; any flaws that you see should be brought up immediately in the future =P.
And again, I don't mind him in office. (Hey, I just checked - my post count is pretty close -_-. lol)
On June 04 2010 17:12 LunarDestiny wrote: ElyAs, you brought up a good point that Darth pmed inactive. Mafia does not benefit from inactive not being mod killed. If they want their inactive members to do the minimum posting and not get mod kill, they can just pm their own members.
IF inactive shows up tomorrow, ask them: Did they get the pm and when did they get the pm from Darth. If the inactives can confirm that Darth sent them the pm, then Darth is almost certain not mafia.
I PMed them a little bit before supernovamaniac posted his recent post.
On June 04 2010 20:56 ElyAs wrote: Okay, I just realized that jiabung has voted for himself. Are you going to run for mayor ?
And I really hope that these 2-3 inactives are going to wake up soon, every townie counts !
to be fair, I told the newbies who didnt know who to pick to vote for themselves rather than get modkilled.
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On June 04 2010 23:12 bumatlarge wrote: so the soon to be mayor would be lynching either lazer(most likely lynch) and i heard someone say tyranos? doesnt seem to be alot of talk about this but lazer seems best choice, while tyranos would either be a lucky snipe ona cautious mafia or just a waste of smart and latively active townie. otherwise they seem viable choices from the clue perspective.
as for mayor, i do feel that yellows methods are very instigative, yet i really dont think hes mafia as hes bound to get checked. (im just praying for his and our sake hes not miller, which would be very ironic, comical but mostly depressing ;_; darth seems a better choice i guess just because it seems hed do everything yellow would but with more regard to the town in general which is would ultimatley lessen mafia influence. seems even less likely a mafia. but it still impotant to be overly suspicious of all candidates.
zeks and bb seem to be fading into the background and i havent seen them push their campaigns lately. also mtf's choice of crate is something i would seriously consider and even mtf himself, but i dont want to push them too muvh as 1) its suspicious to back them so suddenly and 2) they both would be VERY dangerous as mafia mayors and likely to fool us. Again just being overly suspicious, not pointing your KTFinger Boom thing at anyone.
posting from my phone as im at work and pretty busy, so assume im voting for darth for now, but id like to switch after more speculation.
LaXer is an overlapper on the inactives and clues list. TyranoS voted for me without saying much the entire game and is linked (softly) to the clues.
Either of them sounds good to me.
Well if he's in office he can't get checked out as yes/no for miller - he can't be rolechecked at all.
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On June 04 2010 15:31 LunarDestiny wrote: My support for Yellow Ink is based on the nature of mafia games.
That, mafia don't want to be center of attention. Mafia also don't post a lot and write huge paragraphs.
Then there is "printer explode" hint that relates to Yellow Ink which inevitably going to be brought up at a point and I want to address it now. We need to be rational here. Would Flamewheel give a hint that is so apparent? Heck he might as well say:
"Flamewheel was hit by the lightning as the eclipse passes by."
The thing about that is, if you look at Yellow's profile... well, you'll see what I mean. If flamewheel were to make a clue about Yellow, it would have to be linked to "YellowInk" somehow. That or his picture, which is just a guy (could be him iono lol), which is a bit harder to make a clue about.
That being said, it is still a bit too obvious but then again, I've never played with clues so I don't know how subtle/not subtle they're supposed to be.
On June 04 2010 17:22 LunarDestiny wrote: Also, when asking they did they got the pm from Darth, tell them not to post the actual pm which is illegal in mafia war.
LD, this ain't myspace. lol.
On June 04 2010 14:50 DCLXVI wrote: My impressions of the candidates: YellowInk: I don't like how he just seems to jump around accusing everyone. He also seems to think that the ink "clue" makes him a perfect candidate: easily cleaned or mafia, which is wrong. I have no idea what he will do in office, but I hope that if he gets a position he does not continue to act like he does now pointing fingers at everyone. Either dumb mafia or hotheaded townie DarthTheinAn: He has had a very neutral opinion on most subjects and has argued peacefully. This has caused many people to believe he is a townie, and he is riding this good vibe to an office. Somewhat suspicious how several people voted for him already, some who have not even explained their reasons for doing so. He seems coolheaded and collected at least, not one to make hasty decisions or jump at people's throats. either calm and cool townie or smart and calm mafia Zeks: Not sure what to think about him. He does not seem to be the most clever of candidates or the most knowledgeable, without a clear idea of how the roles can interact. However, I would rather a scum mayor like him than a scum mayor that can manipulate people well. I want to see how he responds to the recent discussion so I can finish evaluating him. Either inexperienced/uncreative townie or very smart mafia BrownBear: Similar to DTA, but more involved in the arguments with YI and willing to take a stand on things. His late arrival into the campaigning and supporting DTA could be a clever mafia ploy, but I don't think so. I think he doesn't want a mayor like YI and decided to do something about it. either smart townie or mafia I don't like either of my guesses about YI or zeks, but I suppose zeks is the most likely townie. DTA and BB are hard to decide on. I almost want to vote crate or myself, but I fear that will cause more confusion and allow the mafia to get both offices. If no one steps up their campaign though...
I think the mayor should lynch TyranoS_NiveK because he already voted DTA, has barely posted, and maybe has a clue related to him.
MTF, you think zeks is townie? I think he's definitely suspect. I wouldn't necessarily lynch him because he's been pretty active, but logic early game wasn't great, as YI pointed out several times. Not sayin he's mafia, and he hasn't posted enough to make any absolute judgments, but he's on my "radar".
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On June 05 2010 03:40 BrownBear wrote: Looking at the recent votecounts, btw, more people need to vote for YellowInk - he's still at danger of being ninja'd by a mafia candidate if one idiot townie bandwagons onto them.
I think at this point, it's safe to say that at least 2-3 mafia have already voted. All of them voting last minute would be incredibly stupid imo, although not impossible. But you're right, Yellow does need a couple more votes (or more) to secure him in office. I don't expect any third random candidates with 6 votes because that would just be so obvious..
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