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On May 07 2010 10:41 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 10:02 citi.zen wrote: Don't have a tone of time, but I think Radfield is right actually.
##vote DarthThienAn##
Qatol, thanks. You are making me feel better about arguing against you. I never wanted an invention that would keep the SK safe. I wanted something better than the DT kit. I liked JeeJee's proposal of a gun that would not kill townies. You know this. Keep it up though. Then why didn't you advocate making one even once? Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? (I assume rd=red here) Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 08:53 citi.zen wrote: Just invent the rd-only killing machine man. It's a kit + gun in one and cannot easily hurt the town. Could confuse us at most if given to a red, but I like the odds. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 12:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 08:22 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? Sorry, I totally misinterpreted. A weapon that can kill SK or mafia is fine by me. I'm okay with Bill wanting to make it detonate if that player attacks him as well. But I don't see why it can't be a gun with bulletproof piercing rounds. I guess I'm just arguing semantics though. You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY. This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 12:55 citi.zen wrote: Right: Ace, would we be allowed to invent a "device_that_only_kills_when_pointed_at_reds"? Is this game breaking or not? Anyways, I'll leave this alone until the lynch. We have other priorities. Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 10:05 Radfield wrote:On May 07 2010 10:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:On May 07 2010 08:22 Radfield wrote: The thing with Foolishness is, it doesn't really matter if he's town or mafia aligned. At some point his CV hits will become a dangerous detriment to the town and we'll have to lynch him just to stay alive. We also have to lynch him before it becomes possible for him and the mafia to make a double hit and gain a huge advantage.
Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around. or let him be mod killed for not killing...(Is that a bannable mod kill?!) We could just use that to our benefit....Ya dig? That's actually not a bad idea, although it really depends on the situation. There may be a time when we simply can't risk him being mafia and getting off a double kill. Umm Strategic modkill = nono unless Ace is moderating this WAY differently from every other host (which I highly doubt). Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 10:38 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 07 2010 09:50 Radfield wrote:Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.) I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though. @Darth Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own. You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign. You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing. You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan' You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own) You did NOT vote for Sidesprang. you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T... You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look... I missed the first vote because time went fast and I was busy casting for CSL and forgot =[. It happens I guess. I'll admit that my activity level plummeted quite a bit. Part of the reason is that the weekend ended, so I spent less time on mafia than on the weekend obviously. Once we got down to concrete analysis, I had less to say, and only posted when I DID have something to say. Theorycrafting is easy for me, especially with numbers >_>. Analyzing posting behavior is hard, since I don't know any of you. I didn't realize that I pointed out obvious stuff and didn't contribute much =[. Guess I'll have to work on that. I called Amnesia out for being scummy on the fact that he was completely inactive and getting away with it. I called it scummy not necessarily because I thought he was mafia, but because I didn't want people to let him get away if he WAS mafia. I felt that my accusation on jspazz was merited - I mean, Qatol basically said: "let's pick between jspazz and JeeJee" and no one picked between them, so I did. sidesprang, I've been through several times. I think even those who voted for him could be suspicious. Whether or not you vote on a mafia is not an indication on your alignment, unless you are the one who starts it. Even the second or third person could be mafia. Again, my position on Scamp is really shaky. There's a fine line between mafia and TOO mafia. I was hoping that someone would analyze what I had said / agree with it, but jspazz throws out a nothing comment that accents my concerns instead - multiple reverse psychologies is possible, after all. Anyway, lynching me, town'll lose something. But I'll try to help out before my corpse offers you guys information. Any suggestions before I go? If you can't figure out what that means, please don't post, your thoughts aren't worth listening to at this point. Yes, please give us your honest impressions of as many people as you can before you die. I will make sure they are discussed after you die. Opz I know you had a longer post, but I wanted to take care of the quick stuff right now. You are intent on using semantics to distract from substantive issues.
Semantics: for most townies the SK is no different than a red, in that killing them is good. So whenever I say "reds" I include the SK.
The real issue: JeeJee made the suggestion we create something that was a DT kit + killing weapon that could not hurt the town. I immediately loved it - what townies wouldn't? It's so good, Zona even argued it would not be allowed, that it's game breaking like mafia-finding-bulltets. Yet you argued against it!
Most importantly - you know all this. This is a clear attempt on your part to distort the truth and fool other people in town into looking at me as a suspect. Maybe it will work, but even if it does, you will not look good if something were to happen to me. At any rate, I will now consider you most likely red. Yes, I include the SK under that heading.
##Vote compvig hit Qatol##
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On May 07 2010 12:30 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 11:40 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 10:41 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 10:02 citi.zen wrote: Don't have a tone of time, but I think Radfield is right actually.
##vote DarthThienAn##
Qatol, thanks. You are making me feel better about arguing against you. I never wanted an invention that would keep the SK safe. I wanted something better than the DT kit. I liked JeeJee's proposal of a gun that would not kill townies. You know this. Keep it up though. Then why didn't you advocate making one even once? On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? (I assume rd=red here) On May 06 2010 08:53 citi.zen wrote: Just invent the rd-only killing machine man. It's a kit + gun in one and cannot easily hurt the town. Could confuse us at most if given to a red, but I like the odds. On May 06 2010 12:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 08:22 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? Sorry, I totally misinterpreted. A weapon that can kill SK or mafia is fine by me. I'm okay with Bill wanting to make it detonate if that player attacks him as well. But I don't see why it can't be a gun with bulletproof piercing rounds. I guess I'm just arguing semantics though. You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY. This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol. On May 06 2010 12:55 citi.zen wrote: Right: Ace, would we be allowed to invent a "device_that_only_kills_when_pointed_at_reds"? Is this game breaking or not? Anyways, I'll leave this alone until the lynch. We have other priorities. On May 07 2010 10:05 Radfield wrote:On May 07 2010 10:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:On May 07 2010 08:22 Radfield wrote: The thing with Foolishness is, it doesn't really matter if he's town or mafia aligned. At some point his CV hits will become a dangerous detriment to the town and we'll have to lynch him just to stay alive. We also have to lynch him before it becomes possible for him and the mafia to make a double hit and gain a huge advantage.
Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around. or let him be mod killed for not killing...(Is that a bannable mod kill?!) We could just use that to our benefit....Ya dig? That's actually not a bad idea, although it really depends on the situation. There may be a time when we simply can't risk him being mafia and getting off a double kill. Umm Strategic modkill = nono unless Ace is moderating this WAY differently from every other host (which I highly doubt). On May 07 2010 10:38 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 07 2010 09:50 Radfield wrote:Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.) I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though. @Darth Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own. You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign. You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing. You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan' You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own) You did NOT vote for Sidesprang. you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T... You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look... I missed the first vote because time went fast and I was busy casting for CSL and forgot =[. It happens I guess. I'll admit that my activity level plummeted quite a bit. Part of the reason is that the weekend ended, so I spent less time on mafia than on the weekend obviously. Once we got down to concrete analysis, I had less to say, and only posted when I DID have something to say. Theorycrafting is easy for me, especially with numbers >_>. Analyzing posting behavior is hard, since I don't know any of you. I didn't realize that I pointed out obvious stuff and didn't contribute much =[. Guess I'll have to work on that. I called Amnesia out for being scummy on the fact that he was completely inactive and getting away with it. I called it scummy not necessarily because I thought he was mafia, but because I didn't want people to let him get away if he WAS mafia. I felt that my accusation on jspazz was merited - I mean, Qatol basically said: "let's pick between jspazz and JeeJee" and no one picked between them, so I did. sidesprang, I've been through several times. I think even those who voted for him could be suspicious. Whether or not you vote on a mafia is not an indication on your alignment, unless you are the one who starts it. Even the second or third person could be mafia. Again, my position on Scamp is really shaky. There's a fine line between mafia and TOO mafia. I was hoping that someone would analyze what I had said / agree with it, but jspazz throws out a nothing comment that accents my concerns instead - multiple reverse psychologies is possible, after all. Anyway, lynching me, town'll lose something. But I'll try to help out before my corpse offers you guys information. Any suggestions before I go? If you can't figure out what that means, please don't post, your thoughts aren't worth listening to at this point. Yes, please give us your honest impressions of as many people as you can before you die. I will make sure they are discussed after you die. Opz I know you had a longer post, but I wanted to take care of the quick stuff right now. You are intent on using semantics to distract from substantive issues. Semantics: for most townies the SK is no different than a red, in that killing them is good. So whenever I say "reds" I include the SK. The real issue: JeeJee made the suggestion we create something that was a DT kit + killing weapon that could not hurt the town. I immediately loved it - what townies wouldn't? It's so good, Zona even argued it would not be allowed, that it's game breaking like mafia-finding-bulltets. Yet you argued against it! Most importantly - you know all this. This is a clear attempt on your part to distort the truth and fool other people in town into looking at me as a suspect. Maybe it will work, but even if it does, you will not look good if something were to happen to me. At any rate, I will now consider you most likely red. Yes, I include the SK under that heading. ##Vote compvig hit Qatol## And how do you think you're going to look if something happens to me? You have provided a nice diversion for the last day or so, but seriously. You have done nothing productive so far this game. Nothing at all. Hell, your argument doesn't even make sense. Come back when you can actually make a real argument that doesn't have a simple explanation. Okay, the serial killer is gone. Does that make you feel better about me yet? I'm the only living player that has led us to ANY dead mafia. Now let's just find out what Darth flips so we can make our next move. Ouch. More fine word-smithing.
For clarity, this is the post where I started the "diversion":
On May 06 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 03:06 JeeJee wrote:On May 05 2010 23:34 Radfield wrote:I have to disagree with you Citizen, sidesprang was lynched because several things pointed to him being the mafia copycat. The only other real option was him being a very bad townie. But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does. i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely. As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely. So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role. you are correct, i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see. atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue. what's the plan with inventions this night? i'm still leaning towards alignment kits. maybe you can get creative and get a gun with special bullets .. if you hit a mafia, they die, if you hit a townie, nothing happens. its like an alignment kit with bullets, whooo =) I love the invention suggestion. How can this harm the town? Swift justice + lasting info. Call it... the silver bullet gun. DT kit v. 2.0. That was the full initial post I made. Then you started to argue with me. You know this. The more you try to pretend this isn't what happened, the worse it looks. This just isn't Qatol-like.
Also, way to take credit for sidersprang's lynching now that Radfield is dead. In contrast to me, who has done absolutely nothing in this game, you actually tried to tell people what roles to pick; and tell medics to role-claim; and Bill to make weaker inventions than the ones other players thought were obviously so strong they could be game-breaking; and you led the charge to compvig johnnyspazz - thanks.
Enough "distractions", as you say.
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On May 07 2010 13:43 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 13:22 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 12:30 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 11:40 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 10:41 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 10:02 citi.zen wrote: Don't have a tone of time, but I think Radfield is right actually.
##vote DarthThienAn##
Qatol, thanks. You are making me feel better about arguing against you. I never wanted an invention that would keep the SK safe. I wanted something better than the DT kit. I liked JeeJee's proposal of a gun that would not kill townies. You know this. Keep it up though. Then why didn't you advocate making one even once? On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? (I assume rd=red here) On May 06 2010 08:53 citi.zen wrote: Just invent the rd-only killing machine man. It's a kit + gun in one and cannot easily hurt the town. Could confuse us at most if given to a red, but I like the odds. On May 06 2010 12:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 08:22 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 08:10 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 07:50 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 07:46 citi.zen wrote: I do not want the discussion about names distract us from the function. Invent a gun_that_only_kills_Mafia. Or a grenade, so medic or bullet proof or vet does not stop it. Grenade is a horrible idea. We do not want anything that can kill townies. We do not want anything bomb-related because of the cell phone. The gun I can accept. Not if the name says it, right? Anyway, it should flat out kill, regardless of vet/protection status, and only kill reds. Can we agree this is better than a kit? Sorry, I totally misinterpreted. A weapon that can kill SK or mafia is fine by me. I'm okay with Bill wanting to make it detonate if that player attacks him as well. But I don't see why it can't be a gun with bulletproof piercing rounds. I guess I'm just arguing semantics though. You entire stance on this issue is extremely shaky. First you don't want a gun. Then you are OK with it, but would simply make it bullet-piercing (even though that still allows a medic-protected red to live, presumably). Then you are "ok" with the gun detonating if the attacker hits Bill - yet the whole freaking point of the gun is that it CAN ONLY KILL REDS - so if Bill is town making the gun he should have no need for it to detonate, since IT CAN'T KILL BILL ANYWAY. This is very shaky reasoning about a very simple matter, totally out of character for you Qatol. On May 06 2010 12:55 citi.zen wrote: Right: Ace, would we be allowed to invent a "device_that_only_kills_when_pointed_at_reds"? Is this game breaking or not? Anyways, I'll leave this alone until the lynch. We have other priorities. On May 07 2010 10:05 Radfield wrote:On May 07 2010 10:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:On May 07 2010 08:22 Radfield wrote: The thing with Foolishness is, it doesn't really matter if he's town or mafia aligned. At some point his CV hits will become a dangerous detriment to the town and we'll have to lynch him just to stay alive. We also have to lynch him before it becomes possible for him and the mafia to make a double hit and gain a huge advantage.
Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around. or let him be mod killed for not killing...(Is that a bannable mod kill?!) We could just use that to our benefit....Ya dig? That's actually not a bad idea, although it really depends on the situation. There may be a time when we simply can't risk him being mafia and getting off a double kill. Umm Strategic modkill = nono unless Ace is moderating this WAY differently from every other host (which I highly doubt). On May 07 2010 10:38 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 07 2010 09:50 Radfield wrote:Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.) I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though. @Darth Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own. You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign. You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing. You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan' You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own) You did NOT vote for Sidesprang. you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote: see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T... You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look... I missed the first vote because time went fast and I was busy casting for CSL and forgot =[. It happens I guess. I'll admit that my activity level plummeted quite a bit. Part of the reason is that the weekend ended, so I spent less time on mafia than on the weekend obviously. Once we got down to concrete analysis, I had less to say, and only posted when I DID have something to say. Theorycrafting is easy for me, especially with numbers >_>. Analyzing posting behavior is hard, since I don't know any of you. I didn't realize that I pointed out obvious stuff and didn't contribute much =[. Guess I'll have to work on that. I called Amnesia out for being scummy on the fact that he was completely inactive and getting away with it. I called it scummy not necessarily because I thought he was mafia, but because I didn't want people to let him get away if he WAS mafia. I felt that my accusation on jspazz was merited - I mean, Qatol basically said: "let's pick between jspazz and JeeJee" and no one picked between them, so I did. sidesprang, I've been through several times. I think even those who voted for him could be suspicious. Whether or not you vote on a mafia is not an indication on your alignment, unless you are the one who starts it. Even the second or third person could be mafia. Again, my position on Scamp is really shaky. There's a fine line between mafia and TOO mafia. I was hoping that someone would analyze what I had said / agree with it, but jspazz throws out a nothing comment that accents my concerns instead - multiple reverse psychologies is possible, after all. Anyway, lynching me, town'll lose something. But I'll try to help out before my corpse offers you guys information. Any suggestions before I go? If you can't figure out what that means, please don't post, your thoughts aren't worth listening to at this point. Yes, please give us your honest impressions of as many people as you can before you die. I will make sure they are discussed after you die. Opz I know you had a longer post, but I wanted to take care of the quick stuff right now. You are intent on using semantics to distract from substantive issues. Semantics: for most townies the SK is no different than a red, in that killing them is good. So whenever I say "reds" I include the SK. The real issue: JeeJee made the suggestion we create something that was a DT kit + killing weapon that could not hurt the town. I immediately loved it - what townies wouldn't? It's so good, Zona even argued it would not be allowed, that it's game breaking like mafia-finding-bulltets. Yet you argued against it! Most importantly - you know all this. This is a clear attempt on your part to distort the truth and fool other people in town into looking at me as a suspect. Maybe it will work, but even if it does, you will not look good if something were to happen to me. At any rate, I will now consider you most likely red. Yes, I include the SK under that heading. ##Vote compvig hit Qatol## And how do you think you're going to look if something happens to me? You have provided a nice diversion for the last day or so, but seriously. You have done nothing productive so far this game. Nothing at all. Hell, your argument doesn't even make sense. Come back when you can actually make a real argument that doesn't have a simple explanation. Okay, the serial killer is gone. Does that make you feel better about me yet? I'm the only living player that has led us to ANY dead mafia. Now let's just find out what Darth flips so we can make our next move. Ouch. More fine word-smithing. For clarity, this is the post where I started the "diversion": On May 06 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 03:06 JeeJee wrote:On May 05 2010 23:34 Radfield wrote:I have to disagree with you Citizen, sidesprang was lynched because several things pointed to him being the mafia copycat. The only other real option was him being a very bad townie. But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does. i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely. As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely. So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role. you are correct, i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see. atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue. what's the plan with inventions this night? i'm still leaning towards alignment kits. maybe you can get creative and get a gun with special bullets .. if you hit a mafia, they die, if you hit a townie, nothing happens. its like an alignment kit with bullets, whooo =) I love the invention suggestion. How can this harm the town? Swift justice + lasting info. Call it... the silver bullet gun. DT kit v. 2.0. That was the full initial post I made. Then you started to argue with me. You know this. The more you try to pretend this isn't what happened, the worse it looks. This just isn't Qatol-like. Also, way to take credit for sidersprang's lynching now that Radfield is dead. In contrast to me, who has done absolutely nothing in this game, you actually tried to tell people what roles to pick; and tell medics to role-claim; and Bill to make weaker inventions than the ones other players thought were obviously so strong they could be game-breaking; and you led the charge to compvig johnnyspazz - thanks. Enough "distractions", as you say. I still have a problem with a gun called a "silver bullet gun." Don't you? It doesn't have an obvious use that can be determined from its name. How the hell do you know what is Qatol-like? You have never played a game with me. You don't know anything about my play style. And don't try to tell me you have read previous games. They mean nothing when looking at my play style. I probably played the PM game more than just about any player. No more than a third of the posts I was making were actually said by me in the thread. Feel free to ask BC or Ver about it after the game. Yes, I told people what roles to pick so we can hold them responsible for their roles. I've done my part. Have you? I'm not taking full credit for sidesprang's lynch, but go check Radfield's posts. He was crediting me with a big part of the lynch as well. Do you know why? It's because without my copycat stuff, that lynch would not have been possible, at least not by that logic. As for the medic roleclaim, I was worried about lynching a medic. I even backed up on that stance ON MY OWN because I thought it through more carefully and realized we didn't have the time to make it work. And what "weaker" inventions are you talking about? Are you talking about the extra night lives when I wasn't clear on the role? Please do tell. You sure talk a lot of shit and you sure as hell aren't backing it up with any solid comments that haven't been explained already. I'm sick of this. Until you back up your comments with quotes and facts (which have not already been explained), I'm just not going to reply to your posts. You do not have anything relevant left to say. If you are scum, good job pissing me off. However, I think it is a lot more likely that you are just an idiot townie barking up the wrong tree. I don't know why you think that tone designed to make new players quiver would work, but hey, you probably thought it's worth a shot. In the interest of letting other conversations develop I will stop this.
You know my vote.
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I want to hear Zona's thoughts too.
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After Radfield claimed to be medic protected, the mafia knew for sure he was SK, correct? Is there any scenario under which they would not?
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Well if we have a mafia medic and a mafia jack on our hands, then I guess the mafia would know for sure that he was SK, bulletproof, or vet. What I think is more likely is that the mafia didn't know what was protecting Radfield from night hits. What they knew is that they took a shot at him and it was blocked. Then he turned around and found another one of their members. I'm not sure they shot him because they knew he was SK at all, they just didn't want him doing any more mafia hunting. I wasn't suggesting the mafia hit him because they knew he was SK - in fact they would not have done so, because of the bullet proof ability. I was wondering about Radfield's reaction afterwards - ie choosing to claim he was medic protected.
At first I wasn't even sure he even got hit (someone had suggested maybe he held off on a hit and claimed the hit just to get more credibility) - but that seems wrong. Double stacking on Bill by chance could have happened too, but again, then there was little reason to claim.
So Radfiled really did get hit by the mafia, and he killed Bill. Now, a pro-town player that gets hit would presumably announce it, so he had to say something if he wanted to try to remain undiscovered by the mafia. He could claim medic protection, veteran, or bullet-proof. All risky claims if there is someone else with that role around - and bullet proof makes people think of the SK anyway. So he went with the medic claim.
As Foolishness said before, the "right call" would have been to state ambiguously that he "took a hit".
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I will vote for Scamp. While I don't care too much for the numbers theory stuff, he was consistently, if somewhat softly defended by Darth. It seems in many posts he was trying to see "fair" but always though in the end Scamp was innocent. So why not.
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LOL @ foolish(ness).
So... with Zona red I am more inclined to think Qatol is town. Not sure who I like as red and on weekends I always have less time. Opz seems like a good candidate, and am OK lynching foolishness too.
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On May 09 2010 06:29 Qatol wrote:Could you contribute more on secondary suspects at some point please? It doesn't have to be now, but it has to be before the next day post. Oh, and ##vote OpZ## Yup, after the lynching.
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I don't know Qatol - if you were really the great town scum-hunter you would have been hit instead of JeeJee last night. After all, JeeJee had gone after Scamp and seemed pretty harmless. Now you are suggesting the mafia will hit me next, because of the all powerful "numbers theory". Then you want to kill Foolishness. So you'd be left with people who don't question you, in a nice end game you can control.
Maybe you are town aligned, and you really think the mafia would never think their number selection would be analyzed. Maybe your plan is good. Maybe we should follow it. I am ok with that - right after you flip green.
##Vote Qatol##
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On May 09 2010 11:50 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 11:33 citi.zen wrote: I don't know Qatol - if you were really the great town scum-hunter you would have been hit instead of JeeJee last night. After all, JeeJee had gone after Scamp and seemed pretty harmless. Now you are suggesting the mafia will hit me next, because of the all powerful "numbers theory". Then you want to kill Foolishness. So you'd be left with people who don't question you, in a nice end game you can control.
Maybe you are town aligned, and you really think the mafia would never think their number selection would be analyzed. Maybe your plan is good. Maybe we should follow it. I am ok with that - right after you flip green.
##Vote Qatol## I'm sorry you feel that way. Why would I have been hit last night? JeeJee was basically confirmed innocent already. You have been trying to get me lynched for 2 game days now. Why should the mafia hit someone when the town will waste a lynch on them on the next day anyways? If it had really been my plan to get rid of people who question me, don't you think I would have offed you sooner? I don't understand how you think I'm playing such a deep game; I guess I am the most amazing player to ever play this game for me to have had the foresight to see this endgame coming. I'll just take your attitude as a compliment. Whatever. I don't believe this change in voting matters anyways. We already reached majority. Unless Ace has changed his voting policy from WAW, your change in vote doesn't change anything. You can try to get me CompVigi'd at night if you wish, but I guarantee to you that it will be a waste. It really is a compliment. There are few people I would be this paranoid over.
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On May 09 2010 13:55 ~OpZ~ wrote: I dunno....
Check the citizenvsqatol mafia support....In the archive... Well, I was so wrong in this game, it's not even funny. Real life meant I haven't had the time to dedicate to the game so I tried to play based no partial information and "instinct". Turns out I can't do that.
I thought Radfield was town, and that there was no way he could be SK. Score!
I kept acting like a basket-case on Qatol: I hated his "numbers theory" arguments (which fared pretty damn well thus far), as well as the regimented suggestion of who should pick what roles. When I saw this post it fit so well with my views I was pretty sure Zona was town:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 02 2010 05:08 Zona wrote:I'm glad someone's stepping up with the first proposals for the town. Yet once again, in yet another game, I have to take issues with the blind spots in the plan, as well as the "I declare it, thus it must be so" tone and mindset. Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote: I want the town to deny the mafia the most powerful roles or at the very least control their use. We can't stop the mafia from taking roles to increase their KP, but we can still control who gets what role and try to keep the mafia away from the 3 most important ones: Inventor, Compulsive Vigilante, and Role Blocker. Why are these roles especially important? The first 2 provide the mafia with kill power EVERY NIGHT. The third one allows the mafia flexibility to get around this plan. I think it's clear to everyone that Inventor and Compulsive Vigilante are by far the most powerful and influential roles in the game, so it's no surprise when you mention them, but I find it curious you lump the roleblocker with them. The roleblocker is a very weak role for town, and while it can be useful for mafia, there are far better picks for them. The only critical situation where I see mafia really wanting the roleblocker is to counter a vocal pro-town bulletproof player, as they will have no other way to get rid of them. It's true that the roleblocker can shut down a town power role, even perhaps the compulsive vig or inventor, but don't overestimate the importance of having such roles active for the town. A compulsive town vig will likely hit a lot of town anyways, and depending on which plan the town inventor follows (night-protect vests, investigate kits, etc), it's similar to a medic, or a cop. To be honest a town inventor might get more mileage out of more wild ideas than the ones presented so far. Still, this is just a relatively minor issue I have with your plan. Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 15:19 Qatol wrote: There are several roles which are very important for someone to pick up this game. These roles are (in no particular order): The information roles - Tracker, Alignment Cop, Role Cop The hit-related roles - Medic, Meth Dealer, Veteran, Bulletproof Other - Copy Cat It is very important that we have at least the threat of these roles out there. With this in mind, I'm arguing that if you are near the bottom of the list, you should think very hard about selecting one of these roles. More importantly is the lack of focus on town grabbing powers that are important to town success. Particularly, investigative roles (tracker, alignment cop) that are very important for town. Now you mention that these are "very important" in your post but then ask that those near the bottom try to get them? Shouldn't players in the middle or even higher up aim to snag these? Your proposal seems focused on denying powers to mafia, which is a good thing. But that's only HALF the story, and missing the important other half: grabbing essential powers for the town. Without investigative roles on the town's side, the town's chances of winning are very low. When I was digging through statistics of played games when trying to ensure that the balance in Micro-MAFIA was as best as it could be - I found something very striking. In the absense of cops, even a 5:1 ratio of town to mafia was shown to be mafia favored. And it's striking how many games are lost for town when the cop dies early on. This showed me that investigative powers are core to a town's success. In fact, given the unknown sanity on the alignment cop - the tracker is likely the most powerful investigative role in the game. This is really why I don't like how you list roleblocker as the third thing for town to grab - when tracker and alignment cop are far more important for town members high up in the draft order to choose. It's all good to deny the mafia strong powers - I agree this is important. But if town gets denied the investigative powers, it will be very difficult to identify the right targets to lynch, unless you are banking on scum making mistakes. But I'll reiterate - in the absense of cops, even a 5:1 ratio of town to mafia was found to be mafia favored. Town needs the investigative powers. Getting investigative powers is as important, if not moreso, than denying mafia killing powers. So focusing on the latter misses at least half of the picture. Finally, I really dislike how you make a declaration as if your proposal is the only one to be followed, and make statements as extreme as "we will immediately lynch you" if someone steps out of line - especially when your plan is flawed. As well, if the top draft order people actually do listen to you, then they've basically claimed their role day 1, making it a lot easier for the mafia to take steps to mitigate their power. A major part of the mafia's game plan is to identify which players have the power roles which are a threat to them - your plan does that for them. I'd rather players make their picks in secret, and only claim when necessary. This keeps the mafia guessing as to who has what power, and who is really a threat to them. Summary and a proposed alternative:Qatol's plan focuses mainly on denying mafia powers (the good part) and misses the boat on grabbing essential town powers, such as investigative roles (the bad part). While he does mention the "importance" of various roles to the town, the way he asks players to pick does not put any real emphasis on getting such roles. Also, he wants certain players to pick certain roles - so if his plan is followed, it's clear to the mafia who owns what powers. Alternative, better proposal: Follow Qatol's emphasis on the compulsive vig and inventor roles, but not the roleblocker. Include the tracker and alignment cop in the "group of important roles". Do not follow Qatol's plan of person x in the draft order picks role y. Instead, if you are a town player high in the draft order, go for one of these, but don't make it obvious which one you have, so it's harder for mafia to arrange their plans on how to deal with these powers. While it's a risk that certain players in the draft order won't get their pick if not all the picks are laid out beforehand, that risk applies to mafia too. If town members DID in fact follow the plan and picked the role that they were told to, mafia can also pick roles without fear of being bumped into vanilla. Given this horrid track record it's clear that my instincts suck. I need to play with my head or not play at all.
Now we have: myself, Foolishness, Falcynn, Korynne, Qatol and soon to be dead OpZ. I would like to believe Qatol is the red so I can somehow be vindicated, but rationally I don't see it given his exchanges with Darth, Zona and others early on. Don't lynch Qatol.
This leaves three people: Falcynn, Foolishness and Korynne. Foolishness can't shoot himself, so killing Falcynn should be fine.
Very slowly, but I guess I finally got to where Qatol / Korynne were two pages ago. Sorry for playing so badly.
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On May 10 2010 02:16 Qatol wrote: Okay I reread the archives 1 more time quickly. I still think Foolishness is the last mafia, but because I have to pick between Korynne and Falcynn, I think I'm going to have to go with Falcynn. Why? Because there is a risk that he has Jack of All Trades and wins tonight if we do not hit him. While I actually think Korynne is the slightly more suspicious player, I just can't take that risk right now. So ## CompVig Falcynn## If citi.zen has a compelling reason to vote for Korynne instead, I'm okay with going for that. Sorry, I'm just running out of time today. I MIGHT be back in time for the day post (I should be back sometime between midnight and 1am EST) but I don't want to gamble with it. I do not. I am OK hitting Falcynn.
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It figures. I hate you for making me read through this thread tomorrow. And good job.
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Waw, good posts Foolishness.
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If you are red korynne you are incredibly awesome. I mean... from the post about the roleblocker to the choice of 5 as your second number when all reds thus far chose 1 - it would all have to be an amazingly deep game. And if I go there I can persuade myself of anything ( hello Qatol).
Foolishness on the other hand I can easily see as red. From the first post about qatol crying after he got outsmarted to the last two posts, leaving himself room to vote for me if korynne will - it's all pretty scummy.
I'll take the simple explanation for once.
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Oh, I didn't mention foolishness ' defense. Qatol asked for zonal and Hobbes to be killed. In red letters. I have no idea how you can ever try to take credit again and again. You merely went along with what seemed inevitable.
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On May 10 2010 22:40 Korynne wrote: Well I'm confirmed green since I didn't vote for Foolishness. So Foolishness, do you have any argument for citizen or should I hammer you now? Of course, this means nothing.
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