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On May 05 2010 00:44 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 21:43 Radfield wrote: Just remembered we need to vote on Comp Vig hits as well. We all know who the CV is, so please play along Foolishness. There's no point in hiding it anymore, if I can figure it out, anyone can. If you are NOT the CV Foolishness, you need to let us know, because that pegs Korynne as a liar. (Again, I'm running on the assumption that Bill is Inventor, which is highly likely at this point, and would be extremely risky for him to claim it if he's not)
Originally I was going to propose ~opz~ or Falycnn. As I thought they would be most likely to be lying about CopyCat if Sidespring flips green, but looking closer I don't think it likely that either are lying. I really believe that Sidesprang WILL flip red, and at this point I think if he flips green we hit Qatol. BUT, I don't think we should hit Qatol until we find out Sidesprang's alignment. Which means we shouldn't use our CompVig hit on Qatol.
Honestly, I don't think Qatol is mafia either at this point. If the Day Vig hit Sidesprang today, that would make this easier. If Sidesprang flips green, we start hitting the people who claimed VANILLA. Worse case we kill VANILLA townies, best case we hit mafia. If Sidesprang flips red, we celebrate and move on.
Obivously we don't want to waste our DayVig, but this seems like a decent time to use it. If people disagree please voice it. However, our DayVig is likely near the top of the list, which means they might not live long anyways. Hobbes, I think you're the DayVig, and I also think it likely you will be targeted soon. You're one of the few people at the top of the list who has a role. You are not the Inventor or CV so you won't get medic protection. Lastly, you claimed a 'fun, fun role' which makes you a mafia target. I'm kinda hoping you actually chose Meth Man and then posted 'fun, fun role' in an effort to get yourself hit by mafia. If so you're awesome. But if not, you need to use you're ability while you still can.
Please speak up people, I think my reasoning here is sound, but I'm open to other suggestions. "Oh I thought opz or Falcynn"....What? No...I posted what happened with my shit, before reading the thread. Go check it out. Me and d3 picked the exact same numbers...-_- You can't prove I'm lying, unless you can RC...and I don't think your RCing me, but feel free to. Bill, give me a phone, I don't care. Hell...Give me a T.V. that reveals my role to the world. And stop saying CV should hit Qatol flat out. Notice Caller was killed? Clearly they want our vets. -__- Not that I really care about Qatol, but protecting him, and adding time to the game would be nice.
One of the kills had to be SK =[. But that's a good point, that we lost two vets. I don't see where he suggested hitting Qatol "flat out" though.
On May 05 2010 00:45 Falcynn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 00:38 ~OpZ~ wrote: ##Vote Radfield ##
I have a bad feeling about this guy.... So do I to an extent, but that's not really enough reason to lynch him, especially now. His plan actually makes sense, if we lynch sidesprang, we'll have some info on whether or not the people above him are telling the truth with their claims (and I'm sure that you guys are experienced enough to know the whole "lynch all liars" strategy). Lynching Radfield now doesn't do anything, it's not like we'll lower the mafia KP by getting him, and he's so far down the list that it's unlikely that he has a really powerful role. We have plenty of time to get people based on suspicions like this, but right now let's just work on getting information based on roles since that's the best lead we've been given.
With 3 possible kills each night (mafia, CV, SK) and the random 1 or 2, and a daily lynch, we're only going to have 4 to 6 turns total I think. And most of the night kills with hit town. So we have to play this right, and hit a mafia ASAP.
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On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl
lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim?
On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote: In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me.
Definitely agree with the CV at night deal.
I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig?
Back to reading that essay -_-
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@giving people vests, it makes mafia immune to serial killer kills as well... which is a luck-based thing, but IT STILL PROTECTS THEM at night. So I think we need something more creative that just bulletproof vests =[. The alternative is doing it anyway and assuming our information will get better if we delay the game. But we don't really want to save mafia - I can see this still being done, but there's gotta be something better, any ideas? >_>
Also, do we want to take a closer look at the inactive people? ie. Amnesia, who basically hasn't posted ANYTHING here. Read: mafia scum trying to hide and stay out of the spotlight, or: busy with life, and still useless -__-. Other players have been posting from time to time, although some of them post worthless these (maybe that includes me, from other's perspectives...)
I think there should be a way to work with that CV+medic dealio, but I'm gonna go back to the drawing board on that.
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On May 05 2010 06:54 Qatol wrote: Oh another thing I want to know: was anyone roleblocked last night? We need to know if there is a roleblocker out there.
Judging from the RCs we've seen so far, I feel like we're missing a LOT of roles. We weren't really clear about which roles to get in the beginning (despite that one post by you) and it seems like several players "missed" the PMing and are Vanilla. Assuming no one's lying of course -_-.
Since we sort of prioritized roleblocker, though, I'm worried that someone might not have gotten it.
im out though ><
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Well the DT kit is a one time thing... I don't know if that applies to ALL inventions though.
On May 05 2010 23:32 johnnyspazz wrote: if you guys feel like i'm the best target for compvig, then i'll just take one for the town. i know i haven't really been doing much for the town, sorry. maybe someone should go check the list of people who didn't vote for sidesprang for the next lynch target. Bill Murray JeeJee DarthThienAn Scamp citi.zen
Meh... i rushed out after my last post to get dinner yesterday and didn't come back to my computer until now o.O. Would've voted for side if I had seen Qatol's clarification, but when I refreshed, I only say the post just before that, didn't refresh again before heading to dinner. Simple as that, not gonna waste much time defending myself.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2010 02:44 Qatol wrote:First, an updated number list. + Show Spoiler [Bid list] + 1. Bill Murray - [17] [4] 2. Foolishness - [1] [1] 3. Korynne - [1] [5] 4. Falcynn [1] [5-20] or [4] [1] - hasn't claimed 5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1] 6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14] 7. d3_crescentia - [4] [14] 8. Caller - [6] [1] 9. sidesprang - [6] [1] Couldn't have lied about his numbers 10. Qatol - [6] [1] 11. JeeJee - [6] [1] 12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1] 13. johnnyspazz - [8] [4] 14. Amnesia [8] [4-20] or [10] [1] - hasn't claimed 15. Radfield - [10] [1] 16. Scamp - [10] [11] 17. Zona - [12] [1] 18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
Falcynn SERIOUSLY needs to come forward with his numbers.Groups: + Show Spoiler [Group 1] ++ Show Spoiler [Group 2] + Foolishness Korynne Falcynn
+ Show Spoiler [Group 3] + Falcynn Hobbes ~OpZ~
d3_crescentia
+ Show Spoiler [Group 4] +
Caller
sidesprang Qatol JeeJee
+ Show Spoiler [Group 5] + DarthThienAn johnnyspazz
Amnesia
+ Show Spoiler [Group 6] ++ Show Spoiler [Group 7] +Now this should presumably clear group #4. However, I'm still not entirely sure that JeeJee belongs IN group #4. Notice that he claimed his numbers after both DarthThienAn and I claimed ours. He could have gotten into the same spot in the drafting order with the numbers [8][1]. This is further complicated by johnnyspazz's presence in group 5. On the one hand, he didn't come forward with his numbers until after both Radfield and DarthThienAn came forward with theirs. On the other, it would be a horrible risk for him to lie about his numbers and then have Amnesia come foward with a contradicting set. I think it is unlikely that he lied about his numbers. So there you have it. Logically, only one of johnnyspazz or JeeJee can be the mafia from group 5 (and I think it is one of them because I still think that Darth is the SK). Anyone want to make a case for hitting one of them over the other? We HAVE to CompVig one of them tonight. Also, Zona, I seem to have broken the archive thread by accidentally typing a [ instead of a ] earlier. Could you fix it lest I make that thread ridiculously long?
+ Show Spoiler [Final Bid list (Minus Amnesia)] + 1. Bill Murray - [17] [4] 2. Foolishness - [1] [1] 3. Korynne - [1] [5] 4. Falcynn [1] [7] 5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1] 6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14] 7. d3_crescentia - [4] [14] 8. Caller - [6] [1] 9. sidesprang - [6] [1] Couldn't have lied about his numbers 10. Qatol - [6] [1] 11. JeeJee - [6] [1] 12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1] 13. johnnyspazz - [8] [4] 14. Amnesia [8] [4-20] or [10] [1] - hasn't claimed 15. Radfield - [10] [1] 16. Scamp - [10] [11] 17. Zona - [12] [1] 18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
Qatol, I'm not sure how this changes your grouping - does Falcynn move up a group or what?
Anyway, between johnnyspazz and JeeJee (read their posts thru archive):
johnnyspazz seems a little bit scummy.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 04 2010 06:17 ZBot wrote:johnnyspazz:+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2010 10:26 johnnyspazz wrote: can i play? On April 30 2010 07:59 johnnyspazz wrote: omg 3 more hours On May 02 2010 01:29 johnnyspazz wrote: I picked [8][4]. Good call darth On May 02 2010 18:20 johnnyspazz wrote: wow ok so i skipped the part where i was supposed to pm a role to ace, gg me
as for voting for me, i guess that would be a great start since you wouldn't be losing anyone important. as for incognito "coaching" me, all he did was refer me to good players such as yourself qatol to ask for advice. last game i tried to be super active and that only turned the town against me.
let me guess, people are going to accuse me for being a lurker and responding when a vote is casted on me. well, there's nothing i can really do if i was busy all day and when i get the chance to read the thread, there's a vote on me by the end. coincidences happen On May 03 2010 01:02 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2010 00:13 Falcynn wrote: Sorry guys for not claiming, was gone yesterday and the day before, I'm just glad I didn't get modkilled. I'll try to make up for it by being a more active townie than last game. Now time to read the rest of the thread. should we assume you are just as vanilla townie since you were gone? On May 03 2010 10:33 johnnyspazz wrote: i think we as a town should agree on what the invention should be and what it should do. that way we know if the inventor is pro-town or not. On May 03 2010 14:14 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2010 11:46 Zona wrote: The kicker is that one of his posts was a question asking falcynn to confirm if he was vanilla - very fishy in my eyes. he said he was gone all day. i was asking if he made the same mistake that i did, not pming a role to ace, and confirming his story. yeah that's fishy, sorry. On May 03 2010 14:21 johnnyspazz wrote: i realize now that pointing out the people who have no abilities in the thread is very dumb because it gives the mafia a smaller list of targets to attack! i was only thinking about confirming townies...crap On May 03 2010 17:26 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2010 15:02 Bill Murray wrote: if medics dont protect me they're terrible players what if there are no medics? On May 04 2010 08:18 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 07:20 Bill Murray wrote: yo guys if youre town and have a role i believe you should be posting to help me out here you want people claim in the thread so mafia can just have a list of targets to destroy? or are you just looking for someone good to give your invention to? On May 04 2010 14:46 johnnyspazz wrote: i'm guessing his cellphone allows you to pm people one of the hits wasn't mafia, i'm guessing SK killed caller and mafia hit d3? after all, assuming the mafia has copycat, why would they hit caller? On May 05 2010 11:26 johnnyspazz wrote:i'm still trying to catch up on the reading, it is MUCH easier to do stuff in nano games since there are 95% less posts to read. On May 05 2010 11:33 johnnyspazz wrote: ##Vote Sidesprang## after reading through everything, i agree that sidesprang would be a good lynch target
why aren't people using the compvig vote idea that was brought up earlier in the game? On May 05 2010 12:01 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote + As for Jspazzz, I will agree on your point that he is filler-posting and has yet to make a contribution of his own. Looking through past games quickly, I'd say he's about as active as during BM's game (a little less maybe) and about as active as during flamewheel's game. Both times he was green. I'll need to look through more games for a better consensus on that. If nobody has any better idea on who the CompVig should kill then we should go with that, especially if Amnesia gets modkilled.
funny you should say this because i didn't even play in flamewheel's game On May 05 2010 12:15 johnnyspazz wrote:my bad Show nested quote +If BM didn't take inventor and it fell into mafia hands then BM is mafia. I can't think of any scenerio other than that, mainly because who would try to pick inventor unless they knew for a fact that it was still there after the first pick? scamp, i don't think anyone is denying the BM is the inventor unless i missed it earlier. why are you bringing it up? On May 05 2010 23:32 johnnyspazz wrote: if you guys feel like i'm the best target for compvig, then i'll just take one for the town. i know i haven't really been doing much for the town, sorry. maybe someone should go check the list of people who didn't vote for sidesprang for the next lynch target. Bill Murray JeeJee DarthThienAn Scamp citi.zen
notable things are: a little of roleclaiming/hunting.. might be looking for "good targets". He follows this by criticizing BM for looking for someone trustworthy (ie. by roleclaiming), which is a bit hypocritical since he did a little bit of the same earlier. Bandwagons sidesprang, claims inactivity. Hasn't really contributed anything original though, and none of his posts make him out to be pro-town.
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JeeJee, on other hand, does the opposite: he says he's not going to claim his role despite several others claiming Vanilla, but then goes and says:
On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote:now that we know this.. # Bill Murray inventor # Foolishness comp vig # Korynne VANILLA # Falcynn VANILLA # [NyC]HoBbes ROLE # ~Opz~ VANILLA # d3_crescentia MEDIC # Caller VANILLA # sidesprang ? # Qatol VANILLA
let me add a piece of it as well # JeeJee VANILLAi didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight?
Really unnecessarily imo, claiming is never good unless you are a) trying to trick mafia, b) lying because you are mafia, or c) have useful information that requires that you claim. But I think we've been over this, so why is he claiming if he has no concrete follow up to it? Could be scum trying to hide by pleading vanilla town.
On May 05 2010 00:04 JeeJee wrote: hold on citizen. why would hobbes or sidesprang have lied? assuming all vanilla claism are true,it's still entirely possible one of them is copycat and the other one is my role it still works out. of course that doesn't mean they're not mafia but in actuality my role probably isn't that desirable for mafia (and figuring they were closer to the top i'd have a better chance of getting this one) so that's another thing to keep in mind.
i'm thinking atm.
On May 06 2010 03:06 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 23:34 Radfield wrote:I have to disagree with you Citizen, sidesprang was lynched because several things pointed to him being the mafia copycat. The only other real option was him being a very bad townie. But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does. i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely. As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely. So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role. you are correct, i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see. atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue. what's the plan with inventions this night? i'm still leaning towards alignment kits. maybe you can get creative and get a gun with special bullets .. if you hit a mafia, they die, if you hit a townie, nothing happens. its like an alignment kit with bullets, whooo =)
From this, we can gather that if JeeJee is town, then Hobbes is town. The invention idea is undoubtedly pro-town, but it could be an act..
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In short I'm leaning toward johnnyspazz for a CV hit. Both of them are... questionable, but johnnyspazz seems a bit more scummy, whereas JeeJee is either trying to keep a low profile, or he just likes being ambiguous (which is good! don't want to tell the mafia too much).
##CompVig Kill: johnnyspazz
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On May 06 2010 04:15 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 03:06 JeeJee wrote:On May 05 2010 23:34 Radfield wrote:I have to disagree with you Citizen, sidesprang was lynched because several things pointed to him being the mafia copycat. The only other real option was him being a very bad townie. But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does. i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely. As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely. So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role. you are correct, i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see. atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue. what's the plan with inventions this night? i'm still leaning towards alignment kits. maybe you can get creative and get a gun with special bullets .. if you hit a mafia, they die, if you hit a townie, nothing happens. its like an alignment kit with bullets, whooo =) I love the invention suggestion. How can this harm the town? Swift justice + lasting info. Call it... the silver bullet gun. DT kit v. 2.0. Easy. Do you trust Bill not to make a regular gun but have the same name? How about he makes another one after that? And then the mafia all fire their guns the same night.
Is there a way we can confirm Bill as town? Or anyone for that matter?
I'm inclined to think Radfield for one is town, as he led us to sidesprang, who turned out to be mafia. Call it luck if you want, but no way that mafia would kill each other with only 4 in the game.
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On May 06 2010 05:39 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 04:53 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 04:47 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 04:15 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 03:06 JeeJee wrote:On May 05 2010 23:34 Radfield wrote:I have to disagree with you Citizen, sidesprang was lynched because several things pointed to him being the mafia copycat. The only other real option was him being a very bad townie. But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does. i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely. As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely. So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role. you are correct, i probably know hobbes' role now, of course that's still pending whether others have lied but the way the events have unfolded so far, the claims seem legit. i think i probably understand hobbes' strategy now and it kind of makes sense.. we shall see. atm i am leaning towards hobbes being townie so that's where we stand on that issue. what's the plan with inventions this night? i'm still leaning towards alignment kits. maybe you can get creative and get a gun with special bullets .. if you hit a mafia, they die, if you hit a townie, nothing happens. its like an alignment kit with bullets, whooo =) I love the invention suggestion. How can this harm the town? Swift justice + lasting info. Call it... the silver bullet gun. DT kit v. 2.0. Easy. Do you trust Bill not to make a regular gun but have the same name? How about he makes another one after that? And then the mafia all fire their guns the same night. This is your strangest comment yet Qatol. If you do not trust Bill this entire discussion is worthless. It makes no difference if you ask him to make invention X or Y - if he works for the mafia he will make what he wants or change the properties of the invention how he wants. I don't get it. Actually, it makes perfect sense. The thing is, if Bill is working for the mafia, he will want to give out as many inventions as he possibly can before we catch him. To do that, he has to give out inventions which seem to be helping the town when they will actually help the mafia in the long run. If we are asking him to give out guns, what is to stop him from giving out his "guns" to mafia members and either claim that they went to people who just died or just say they went to the mafia members? Then the mafia can just go on a shooting spree in a few nights and close out the game. This is silly - ANYTHING can be used to kill someone - the key is in the description, not the name. Us giving Bill ideas does not help or stop him from changing the attributes we cannot observe. Am I the only one who does not get this or is this plainly obvious?
But based on Night 1, Ace won't tell us the description, he'll just tell us the name. The point of a transparent name is that whoever doesn't get it in the town can still tell what is does / is.
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On May 06 2010 06:14 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 05:52 Bill Murray wrote:well i was going to make it double-serve as an alignment checking kit and something that would blow foolishness up if he targeted me tonight Wait, question: If you were planning on making your invention work like this, why were you calling for the medic to protect you? You have already provided a huge disincentive for targeting you. Shouldn't the medic try to block a hit on someone else?
It makes sense for the medic to protect him - mafia still have a hit. But not multiple medics - the only reason why he would need more than one is if he's worried that, if Foolishness if mafia, they'll try to do a trade? Which doesn't sound unreasonable since the Inventor is such a powerful role. But I kinda feel like this would be a bad trade for us - considering the number of vanilla claims that have gone through, I feel like the town is short on roles, so having the Inventor is really important imo.
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On May 06 2010 06:38 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 06:24 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 06:14 Qatol wrote:On May 06 2010 05:52 Bill Murray wrote:well i was going to make it double-serve as an alignment checking kit and something that would blow foolishness up if he targeted me tonight Wait, question: If you were planning on making your invention work like this, why were you calling for the medic to protect you? You have already provided a huge disincentive for targeting you. Shouldn't the medic try to block a hit on someone else? It makes sense for the medic to protect him - mafia still have a hit. But not multiple medics - the only reason why he would need more than one is if he's worried that, if Foolishness if mafia, they'll try to do a trade? Which doesn't sound unreasonable since the Inventor is such a powerful role. But I kinda feel like this would be a bad trade for us - considering the number of vanilla claims that have gone through, I feel like the town is short on roles, so having the Inventor is really important imo. You really think the town is short on roles given the huge list of town roles to choose from? (There's definitely a few roles on the list that the mafia would never grab outside the sole purpose of not letting the town have it). You think that 3-5 people ended up picking CV or Inventor? I don't think anyone here is that dumb, people are obviously lying about being a townie. So wait, first BM says I'm mafia and I'm going to kill him at night, then he says he's entrusting the laptop to me to find a mafia? Let's try to be more wishy-washy please.
Dude, have been listening to the role claims so far? Half the people forgot to PM Ace apparaently and half the people went for something that was already taken. If no one's lying, there are something like 10-14 roles in the game, 3 of which are gone (death), and 3 more of which could be mafia...
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On May 06 2010 11:38 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 11:35 johnnyspazz wrote: so if i turn green, how likely is jeejee red?
Explain. I don't see the connection.
The tossup for compvig kill was originally between jspazz and jeejee. I think it was partially based on Qatol's groupings earlier. If jspazz flips green, theres a higher chance that jeejee is red?
But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
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On May 06 2010 11:49 Zona wrote: Bill - if you're town, you need to work with us, your fellow town members in order to get rid of scum. Even if you identify scum, you cannot lynch anyone on your own, and since you can't use your own inventions, you aren't able to kill on your own either.
You've been examining other people's arguments for holes - for example, saying Qatol's number grouping argument wasn't a strong sign that he was town. Have you considered examining the arguments you make on your own behalf that way? After all, the rest of us should be reading what you say the way you are reading other players' posts, if we are to be careful town members.
You need to invent something that is clearly pro-town and useful only to town members. Why is this? Like others have said, you need to clear suspicion around yourself. You clearly know if you're town, but you need to convince us, and so far your arguments and actions do not confirm you, and you should realize this if you examine what we can see of what you've done the way you are examining other players.
The thing is - a mafia inventor would clearly bring benefit to his or her team by turning out guns and other destructive inventions. But if that inventor did that it would clearly draw the attention of the town to get rid of this inventor as soon as possible. However, if a mafia inventor didn't want the town to immediately aim for his or her death, the inventor could turn out ambiguous inventions or tools that benefit the mafia in smaller ways, but aren't as obvious when publicized. It's up to you to prove to us that this situation is not the case.
I really hope that you don't instantly react to any criticism of you and your actions by thinking or saying that the person doing the criticizing is scummy, but instead take steps to address the criticism. If you act in an obviously pro-town way that OTHERS CAN UNDERSTAND, then you could be one of the town leaders, given your powerful role. And if your goal is a "town circle" (I really don't prefer this term), it doesn't necessarily have to rely only on PMs. A "town circle" is simply a group of players who know that each of the other players in the group are pro-town and work together to find and lynch scum. The reason they usually need to communicate in secret is that they're vulnerable if revealed to the public - but in this game, you as an inventor can take steps to counter that.
Hey BM, invent a:
Detective_Kit_to_Confirm_Bill_Murray's_Innocence.
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On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote: But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town. see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T...
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Uhh...
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I'm going to assume the medic DIDNT protect Bill Murray -_-
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On May 06 2010 14:01 Qatol wrote: Hmm the Night post has a few interesting points. Only 2 deaths: johnnyspazz and Bill Murray. Did we have a hit blocked? Or did the mafia and the SK happen to hit the same target? If anyone else has more information about the night (like if you took a hit), please come forward.
Is it possible that the SK stacked with the mafia on BM? It seems really really unlikely, but it's possible. But I don't know why the SK would hit BM...
This is assuming that jspazz died from our CV hitting him as we suggested.
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On May 06 2010 14:03 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 13:59 DarthThienAn wrote: Uhh...
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I'm going to assume the medic DIDNT protect Bill Murray -_- It doesn't necessarily mean that at all. The medic very well could have protected Bill Murray. It is just as likely that both the mafia and the SK hit Bill Murray. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 14:01 Qatol wrote: Hmm the Night post has a few interesting points. Only 2 deaths: johnnyspazz and Bill Murray. Did we have a hit blocked? Or did the mafia and the SK happen to hit the same target? If anyone else has more information about the night (like if you took a hit), please come forward. EBWOP: Sorry, got excited and didn't point out the other thing interesting about the night post: No invention. Is that just because he died?
Yea. And yea @ EBWOP, was just gonna point that out myself.
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On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote: I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. Show nested quote +On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote: good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else.
Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town.
Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked.
As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p.
On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote: OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies.
I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick.
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still writing >.> my post'll be up... maybe in an hour
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+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote: I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote: good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote: OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you?
+ Show Spoiler [Radfield's post] +On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote: JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out.
Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full.
I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious.
Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread.
Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia.
What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on:
+ Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum.
+ Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote: In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness.
I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply.
He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so...
Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1] 3. Korynne - [1] [5] 4. Falcynn [1] [7] 5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1] 6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14] 10. Qatol - [6] [1] 11. JeeJee - [6] [1] 12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1] 15. Radfield - [10] [1] 16. Scamp - [10] [11] 17. Zona - [12] [1] 18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
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On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote: The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 04:24 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote: I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote: good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote: OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you? + Show Spoiler [Radfield's post] +On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote: JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full. I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious. Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. Show nested quote +Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia. What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on: + Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum. + Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote: In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness. I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply. He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so... No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner. Show nested quote + Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1] 3. Korynne - [1] [5] 4. Falcynn [1] [7] 5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1] 6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14] 10. Qatol - [6] [1] 11. JeeJee - [6] [1] 12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1] 15. Radfield - [10] [1] 16. Scamp - [10] [11] 17. Zona - [12] [1] 18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea?
Yeah I was getting around to my most recent post when I had to rush out - I still think it's highly likely that Hobbes and JeeJee are of the same alignment, whether that be town or mafia.
I'm kinda leaning toward the idea that one of Foolishness, Korynne, Falcynn are mafia. I already explained why I think Opz is probably mafia. Scamp I'm not sure of, and the whole idea of a medic claiming would be really troublesome. However, I'm not sure that he's medic - he showed some reluctance to going for the role early on saying that he would get it only if others thought that he REALLY should. If my memory serves, no one really followed up on that, which makes me think he might have gone for a different role. Once again, Zona and citi.zen I haven't looked at too closely - if I'm right about the first group having one and Opz being mafia, then that leaves one of Scamp/Zona/citi.zen as the last mafia.
The only thing I've noticed about Zona is that he writes not frequently, but he writes really long posts with quality, which is better than spam. He's done a lot of "bringing us down to earth" so to speak, and making sure we consider different angles, much like BM did (if I'm not getting confused with other players). That's about all he's done though, I don't think he's really actively pushed for anything.
citi.zen has been a bit more hostile as you guys have noted. He calls out Foolishness and Korynne with his "preliminary impressions," sticks on the two of them for awhile actually, though Korynne a bit longer than Foolishness. Defends sidesprang - wow I just realized how much he tried to defend / delay sidesprang's death: red flag - and in the end votes for sidesprang giving "information gathering" as his reason, a jump on the bandwagon imo. Then there's battle with Qatol.
I don't know his style. But his defense of sidesprang has just made me suspicious. I think it's definitely worth considering, and I think he might be mafia - that or, based on his animosity toward Korynne, Korynne is mafia. What does everyone think?
+ Show Spoiler [citizen's notable posts] +On May 02 2010 12:33 citi.zen wrote:Preliminary impressions: Zona is town aligned; Quatol seems town aligned but less sure of it (scary if he isn't). Foolishness is extremely shady - his first post is this ad-hominem attack: Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 03:04 Foolishness wrote:On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote:Okay, fun time. I've been doing some thinking about the game setup and have some thoughts for the town going forward:
The first major item of note is this: + Show Spoiler [Vanilla Scum] +
You are Vanilla Scum!
The ability to kill 1 player per night belongs to you. One of you must PM me a kill for the night even though all 4 of you participate in the kill.
Remember you can coordinate your # picks during the draft phase. The Mafia team this round consists of: Jack, Jill, this bottle and my ecstasy pills!
You win when you outnumber the town, or there is no way for them to stop you from outnumbering them.
This tells us 2 things: 1. The mafia only have 1 KP in a game with 19 players. They also only have 4 members. Why is this important? With all the rolecheck abilities out there, the mafia are unlikely to stand much of a chance unless they get some very powerful roles. 2. The mafia team knew who each other were during the draft phase and were allowed to communicate with each other during said phase. Assuming they talked to each other at all, they did not overlap with each other. These 2 points lead us to a pretty simple conclusion: The mafia made sure they have very low numbers and their numbers were probably consecutive in order to guarantee that they would wind up with powerful role choices. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like: [3] [1] [4] [1] [5] [1] [6] [1] in order to avoid overlapping with the town as much as possible while still keeping near the top. I think it is unlikely that they bid a [1] [1] or even a [2] [1] just because they were worried the town would also bid those numbers. Bill Murray already claimed he bid [1] [1]. I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually the case. I think L probably bid [2] [1] hoping that people would stack on 1. The people I'm looking at right now are these people in particular: 3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn I strongly believe that 1 or 2 of them are mafia. They are also likely to go for the roles the mafia will rely upon for the game. Remember that aside from the Copy Cat (which would be a risky role for the mafia to take), if the mafia want a role that gives them additional KP, they are likely to take it with these picks. I'm specifically thinking that the mafia here will be targeting Jack of All Trades, Day Vigilante, and Vengeful Player. Keep these 3 players in mind for later. I also propose that people announce something: whether or not you moved down and what you bid. Why would you do that and why would it matter? Because it gives us an idea of what range people bid in. Remember, we want to piece together who bid what because the mafia did not stack numbers on top of each other. I realize that the mafia can lie about this, but it really doesn't matter. If they lie about their bidding numbers, then the town has an opportunity to catch them in a lie based on who else bid that number. If someone moved down, they are placed in a group with the people around them. When you find a mafia in that group, it increases the level of trust with the people around you. With this in mind, I would like to announce that I moved down. I bid [6] [1] thinking that the mafia might try for consecutive numbers starting between 2 and 4. That would mean that they would end between 6 and 8. I'm almost positive I overlapped with one of the mafia. This means that we should also be looking very hard at: 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee I confirmed with Ace that this situation: A - [3] [1] B - [3] [1] C - [5] [1] D - [5] [2] will result in: A and B are ordered randomly, C, D. The second tie does not move you down a second time. This means that anyone who moved down yet is still above me bid at least a 6. Everyone below me moved down AND bid at most a 6. If you bid between 3 and 5 and moved down, it is especially important that you speak up.
Why am I coming forward with this information right now and not after roles are selected? Because I want the town to deny the mafia the most powerful roles or at the very least control their use. We can't stop the mafia from taking roles to increase their KP, but we can still control who gets what role and try to keep the mafia away from the 3 most important ones: Inventor, Compulsive Vigilante, and Role Blocker. Why are these roles especially important? The first 2 provide the mafia with kill power EVERY NIGHT. The third one allows the mafia flexibility to get around this plan. Therefore, I want Bill Murray to take Inventor and L's replacement to take Compulsive Vigilante. Foolishness will take Roleblocker.Bill Murray, you will be making meth bombs (if Ace allows it) or at least bulletproof vests for people every night. The day post will confirm that you followed these directions. This way you cannot give the mafia additional kill power. L's replacement, the town will be directing your shots. We will vote during the day on your hit. Foolishness, you will not be roleblocking anyone. If anyone claims to be roleblocked, we will immediately lynch you. Roleblocks are much stronger for the mafia than they are for the town. I would just as soon nobody get them. tl;dr:Look hard at these 5:3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee Claim your numbers. Revealing this information does not hurt the town but does hurt the mafia.Bill Murray, L's replacement, Foolishness: you have additional instructions. Read them. Did anyone else interpret this post as "waaa I'm upset that I was outsmarted by all these people and ended up low on the draft list waaa"? I indeed picked 1,1, meaning L picked 1,1 assuming BM isn't lying. ...followed a bit later by another post that does not sit well with me: Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 04:55 Foolishness wrote:On May 02 2010 04:25 Qatol wrote:Lots of stuff to comment about: On May 02 2010 03:04 Foolishness wrote: Did anyone else interpret this post as "waaa I'm upset that I was outsmarted by all these people and ended up low on the draft list waaa"? Thanks for the vote of confidence. You had better pick roleblocker. On May 02 2010 03:50 DarthThienAn wrote: On another note, are we following Qatol's plan for the first 3? Is there a good argument why we shouldn't? I haven't seen one so far. Let me just say, that I highly doubt you would have posted all this stuff if you had wound up 1-5 on the list. Why do you fail to incriminate yourself in your analysis of what the town should do? On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote:
tl;dr: Look hard at these 5: 3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee
And it's funny that you're number 11 on the list. According to your analysis, you are just as suspicious as anyone on that list, yet you fail to say so. And can you remind me why you picked 10-12 to "look hard at"? It seems arbitrary and a way to deflect attention off yourself (I may have missed it in your post if you already said so). And why do you neglect BM and L in this list? As far as we know, they both picked 1,1 with me. My guess is you're trying to butter them up so they listen to your plan. We all know how sensitive BM and L are; if you incriminated them they probably wouldn't listen to you at all (and it's kinda funny how BM doesn't want to listen to you anyways). Korynne also seems off to me. He is clearly thinking about the roles a lot, yet makes repeated mistakes in his proposed "pro-town" plans. This could be a new player thing, or someone who is trying to seem active but not paying enough attention to "the other side's view". Together with their number picks (which Foolishness describes as having "outsmarted" others - which implies strategy, not luck) I view them as very fishy. These are first impressions. I am not going to pretend they are strong and will not argue with anyone just yet - don't bother. Onwards and upwards. On May 03 2010 11:54 citi.zen wrote: ##Vote johnnyspazz On May 04 2010 22:33 citi.zen wrote:This possibility is pretty bothersome - we may learn less than advertised by lynching Sidersprang. That said, I would like to hear more from Qatol, he's sort of gone dormant after being very active early on. I really wish Bill would have just made detective kits or something to that effect. Remember Zona's observation about town win rates when the DT is dead/alive. In this case the role-picked DT may not be sane... so a plain vanilla Dt would be hugely helpful. Nothing will give us clearer information right now. Town circles CAN be effective IF there is decent information to provide some minimum amount of trust/information (ie - a detective). Also, town circles can easily be infiltrated with this set of rules and, in this case, they will take way too long to set-up. How exactly was the cell phone supposed to work anyway? Does the "other" person need one too or can you PM anyone? Some other way? On May 04 2010 23:08 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:48 Radfield wrote:On May 04 2010 22:33 citi.zen wrote:2. Someone who claimed Vanilla is lying: Korynne, Opz or Falcynn This possibility is pretty bothersome - we may learn less than advertised by lynching Sidersprang. That said, I would like to hear more from Qatol, he's sort of gone dormant after being very active early on. More importantly Citizen, Are you going to vote Sidesprang? We learn a lot more with him than anyone else at the moment. If he flips green, we KNOW someone has lied and we have the likely candidates of ~opz~, Qatol and Falcynn. Think about it though, Sidesprang is the perfect distance down to pick CopyCat. Not high enough to get a great role, and just high enough to beat out Qatol. The perfect spot to take that pick if you're mafia and have 4 slots. Yup, at the end of the day some information is better than no information, so lynching him helps more than some other shot in the dark. Too early to have very strong red candidates anyway. Let's do it. ##Vote Sidesprang ## On May 04 2010 23:29 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:19 Scamp wrote: Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now. Not a bad question - even if he is willing to play along I don't think we will be able to use his kills properly just yet, so he is probably helping the mafia. It would be a great defensive play, but in the end I'd rather try to get some extra info by lynching sidersprang I guess. I would NOT use the day vigilante of sidersprang though. Lynch him and save the day vig hit. No need to rush into this and start killing people left and right on very little information. On May 04 2010 23:47 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:40 Radfield wrote:On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote:now that we know this.. # Bill Murray inventor # Foolishness comp vig # Korynne VANILLA # Falcynn VANILLA # [NyC]HoBbes ROLE # ~Opz~ VANILLA # d3_crescentia MEDIC # Caller VANILLA # sidesprang ? # Qatol VANILLA
let me add a piece of it as well # JeeJee VANILLA i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight? Hold on Jeejee, you're claiming VANILLA?? If so, what did you try to pick? Because if you didn't pick copycat, and it would be strange for you to go for CompVig or Inventor, then you must have picked Hobbes' role. Despite my previous posts, I'm not in favor of outing all the roles. But this is too juicy because we can catch one of Jeejee or Hobbes in a lie possibly. If Jeejee claims what he picked, and Hobbes reveals that he doesn't have that role, then one of them is lying, and we just found another mafia(or SK perhaps, either is good). And Jeejee if you claim to have picked Inventor or Compvig, I would find it highly suspicious, given all our plans of taking those two roles first, and you picking 11th. So Jeejee, WHAT ROLE DID YOU TRY FOR??? and Hobbes, IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH??? We can find out some info here folks. Or sidersprang took it and Qatol lied. Or another vanilla role claimant lied. On May 04 2010 23:58 citi.zen wrote: Ok, we have 4 vanilla role claimants + Hobbes + sidersprang, one of which lied if JeeJee is telling the truth.
We should lynch sidersprang, as discussed. I'd like to keep Qatol around. Hitting Hobbes is risky if he has a good role and is pro-town. Leaving us with Korynne, Falcynn and ~Opz~ to use the compulsive vigilante hit on.
I will vote to compulsive vig hit Korynne out of that group.
And no, I still don't like using he day vig. No reason to speed up the killing on poor information. Let's wait for the lynch flop and save the day vig hit for a time we have more info. On May 05 2010 02:08 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 01:30 Radfield wrote:On May 05 2010 01:20 citi.zen wrote:On May 05 2010 01:01 Radfield wrote: Wow Opz, I thought I was being clear in my posts, but obviously not. Did you skim read? Also, yes I try hard. I'm not sure why people sign-up if they're going to half-ass it.
You keep stating things as if I haven't given a clear reason for each of the things I put forward. I explained why I left Korynne off the list, I specifically said we should NOT use our CV hit on Qatol, I made a good case for Sidesprang which you casually brushed aside because..... well, no reason.
Don't get all defensive about me putting your name out there, try to see why I put it out there. If Sidesprang flops green SOMEONE IS LYING. Surely you agree that we should try to figure out who? The issue JeeJee brought up should be addressed: what if we lynch sidersprang and he turns out pro-town and copycat? Then we have... no leads and a dead medic. Everyone else could be telling the truth, no? If he did that then it was awfully anti-town. Qatol stated he was going for the copy-cat, why would another town player swipe it right before him instead of grabbing another useful role? It doesn't make any sense. But yeah, if he flops town aligned copy-cat that sucks, but he deserves it for screwing over the town plan. I don't care if "deserves it". Every single game there are bad town-aligned players who screw their team over, and it's too many of them to lynch the lot of them. That's just a sad fact. What matters is what are our best options going forward. I like your reasoning a lot, which is why I voted for him. But can we do better? On May 05 2010 05:49 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 05:41 Korynne wrote:On May 04 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:On May 04 2010 14:13 Korynne wrote: Hmmm, this further increases my suspicion of BM/Foolishness. I'm assuming d3 could've died trying to protect one of them.
Well now that mafia copy cat has a nub weak doctor role...
Can someone claim alignment on BM/Foolishness? I guess it's a bad idea to reveal your role so soon though. =\
FoS on BM/Foolishness, but certainly don't want to lynch the wrong one here. =\ [...] You don't think BM had protection if he wasn't mafia? Seriously, mafia hitting BM would of been....Not the smartest idea if he's town. So forget your FoS. It's weak. Extremely shakey. Okay seriously OpZ you need to read, or be more clear. A weak doctor died, which means that he could've tried to protect a mafia and got killed. Seeing as how we're all like PROTECT BM AND FOOLISHNESS, d3 could've died protecting one of them. I'm not implying BM or Foolishness should've died, I'm saying d3 could've died trying to protect one of them if they are mafia. Granted, SK probably killed someone and mafia killed someone but then again one of their kills could've been blocked so who knows... Also citi.zen, why do you vote for killing me out of me OpZ and Falcynn, I have no opposition to you killing me for information (finding out that BM/Foolishness is mafia/compvig) but you didn't state a reasoning. I only have a very weak preference for you. Perhaps we can compvig hit sidersprang and not lynch? Not sure, but I don't want to take too many random shots before the dt(s) if bill agrees to make more kits) have time to perform checks. Before then it's more likely we will kill townies and help the mafia. On May 05 2010 23:14 citi.zen wrote: Sidersprang wasn't lynched because he was terribly suspect, but because he didn't really reply + we thought we might get more info on other people from lynching him. We got lucky with our lynch, which is great, but remember the mafia KP is the same whatever happens.
For tonight, I still like alignment kits as our invention - the chance of hitting a red by shooting into the crowd are now even lower. Alternatively - what do we think of making some meth-bomb-like item which would not kill all visitors, only the shooter? If enough townies have those the reds eventually kill themselves.
I need to review people's posts relative to Sidersprang.
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On May 07 2010 06:32 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:28 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:51 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 05:34 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:23 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 05:13 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote: The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. On May 07 2010 04:24 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote: I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote: good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote: OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you? + Show Spoiler [Radfield's post] +On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote: JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full. I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious. Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia. What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on: + Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum. + Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote: In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness. I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply. He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so... No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner. Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1] 3. Korynne - [1] [5] 4. Falcynn [1] [7] 5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1] 6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14] 10. Qatol - [6] [1] 11. JeeJee - [6] [1] 12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1] 15. Radfield - [10] [1] 16. Scamp - [10] [11] 17. Zona - [12] [1] 18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea? I'm confused. Won't day be well over in 10 hours? If the medic is to claim they should do it before day ends so we have ample time to move votes around. After missing a lynch on the first day I don't think we can afford to do the same thing. I'm also against the idea of the medic claiming in general because they will just die next night. The other medic is already dead (copycat is dead too, although he was mafia), BM is gone so he can't invent anything for protection. Doesn't seem like there's any way for the medic to survive the night if the mafia figure out who it is. Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack? After writing that last paragraph, this is actually quite fishy. Nobody else claimed to take a hit. Maybe he's the SK and chose NOT to hit someone to get credibility. Agreed - the medic claim plan does not make any sense to me. On the Radfield issue - he would be taking a HUGE risk if he were the SK. There would likely be a medic out there knowing he lied. I don't see it. Maybe not. There could be a Jack protection. Given the lack of roles that were obtained in this game, it's very possible there's no other medic. It still doesn't add up. There's no way he could know there was a medic Okay you are totally right. Sorry, I'm still used to 48 hour days. We just don't have time to deal with a medic claim. I don't think that as a SK he would claim to be protected by a medic unless he was holding the role himself. Otherwise, those sorts of things can wind up coming back to bite you pretty badly, especially considering the emphasis we put on people taking that role during the role selection. Regardless, we need to pick someone and start voting. So who is the most suspicious to you and why? Korynne is most suspicious to me. She was an active part of the community in the beginning, and has since dropped out due to boredom (conveniently right as we killed a mafia too...). That's a pretty standard mafia move, and I think you already mentioned it: being active in the beginning to gain trust then hiding it out. The biggest reason I'm suspicious of her is because of her "fine just kill me if you don't believe me" attitude, and she has mentioned something along these lines in multiple posts, not just once. I see this defense all the time in real life mafia and it's usually the sign of a mafia member "giving up" so to say. The fact that she admitted to being bored and not wanting to contribute doesn't help either. And as far as I can see, Hobbes has contributed as much as Amnesia has this game. Having a "fun fun role" as he called it does not justify him sitting around. So you think the mafia picked 1? Darth was just mentioning that he did not think that was the case because of L/Bill Murray both claiming to have taken [1][1]. Do you disagree? Why?
To clarify, I find it unlikely - but am open to the idea if anyone can explain to me why the mafia would do so EXCEPT to deny someone the unique [1][1]. That or explain why that denying is enough incentive for them to go [1][1]. Like Radfield said, we all have to be careful of accepting things as fact when it's more of a, "likely possibility." Even I'm guilty of that, trying to correct myself now ><
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