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Well, just got done with the debauchery that was last night's OSL. To keep things concise now:
L, people have been talking now, so if you wouldn't mind joining in now...
Foolishness, despite calls of stirring the town to activity, you really haven't contributed much more than a few back-and-forth snipes with L. Agreeably though, RoL hasn't been 'around' too much (due to work, he says?) so it's a bit questionable that Cynan is voting.
To RebirthOfLegend:
On March 31 2010 11:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I NEED INFORMATION TO WORK WITH, ITS WHY I POST.
At this point I have nothing to say. There is no plan to establish, everything obvious has been said.
No lynch is a dumbfuck move. Don't lynch RC blues because they aren't mafia. If someone RC blue and you are that role. Counterclaim immediately. Trading blue for red is beneficial to the town.
ALRIGHT? Get posting.
KF91: If everybody followed your plan, nobody would have any proposals. Ergo, you should take a step up instead of waiting in the shadows.
CynanMachae: I'd very much like to hear your expanded reason as to why you're voting RoL, especially since he hasn't been around to present much.
Vivi57: A good post about Cynan, methinks, but I want you to post more, considering the reset of your posts are spammilicious.
Tennis now. Will be back around 6 to see any new developments.
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Spoilering my post since it has a wall of text "tl;dr" will be in place instead.
+ Show Spoiler [Addressed to KF91] +On April 01 2010 04:14 KF91 wrote: Alright, it doesn't seem like there was much activity since I posted...
##Vote flamewheel91##
I made the decision to vote flamewheel, mostly because I think his posts are way too wordy. Maybe I'm not searching well enough, but from some of his posts that I have seen in previous games; he has not posted stuff to the extent that he has in this thread.
Nonetheless, I don't think he needs to drag on with what he wants to say; if it can be said in 3-4 sentences, that's how it should be done. It may be that he is trying to cover the fact that he is mafia by whipping out as many sentences as he can to look beneficial to the town, or he actually might be just a townie who is trying his best to help the town out. But in my opinion, I think that the former fits better in this situation.
I will probably be back an hour before Day 1 wraps up just in case I want to change my vote. It's not the search. I've played one, I repeat one game of forum mafia, and that was Incognito's XVI. Between that span I've co-/hosted the rest, so naturally you won't find anything on how I've played since then. From being able to watch everything from behind the scenes, it's helped me in developing a different play style. Consider it verbose, so deal with it. If everybody else were posting more stuff, perhaps I would not feel the need to try to post as much. Finally, the rebuttal: Let's consider it like this: I post X number of sentences in a post, where X is, admittedly, a large number. You post few sentences. However, you say little to nothing in those few sentences, and thus your posts are just as much so or more dribble than mine are. However, the claim you make against me, essentially that I play differently than I did in XVI, while true, can also be used against you. In Mafia II, you were mafia. You posted nothing. In Mafia III, you ask one question about DTs and vote to abstain, then you never showed up again. You were a Mad Hatter. Different playing style, eh? However, I don't condemn you for this, since you've already said you were going to be trying to play more this time (though for II and III you should've at least announced you were going to be working or something...) Point being: while it is a plausible idea, your reasoning behind "he's posting differently this game" is based on a double standard. tl;dr version: This is my second game playing. I changed my play style after observing games. You did the same (changed your style from posting nothing to posting a bit, that is). Accusation faulty based on double standards.
On April 01 2010 04:19 Foolishness wrote: I do agree his posts are a bit wordy, however given the lack of activity I can't really say it's a problem right now. And it's not like he's doing it to hide posts or cover anything up. Right now with very little information it's hard to vote for him based off of long wordy posts. Besides if he stops being active in future days he'll be held accountable.
L didn't want to make an accusation so as to avoid a bandwagon (acceptable reason I guess). So he let other people talk and do the accusing for him. Yet no bandwagon's have happened really, and there's hardly been any defense of votes. Almost like nobody is taking their votes against them seriously, like, "lol BM voted for me? haha what a joke...". These wordy posts are an attempt to stir people into writing. If they want to take shots at me, that's okay, since then they'll at least be posting. I'm glad that I've at least "spurred" madnessman and KF91 into 'action.' Furthermore, I fully intend to be as active as possible in this game, so you can easily hold me accountable by my posting.
Well, the second part of your latter paragraph is the reasoning why I want him to talk. If all the votes by now, when we have about 4 hours left, are "jokes" then it's time for something serious.
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@L: Typing up yet another long-ass post.
@Cynan: I'm about to. Sit tight.
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On April 01 2010 07:37 L wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 07:36 flamewheel91 wrote: @L: Typing up yet another long-ass post.
@Cynan: I'm about to. Sit tight. Make it concise, cutie.
I'm tryin', love. It has short truncated paragraphs and everything!
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Thank you L, glad to hear what you have to say. Since you are seemingly not actually going with a full accusation against me, I'm going to treat my defense more as a way for me to make my first accusation.
Also, oops I lied this isn't short at all. But it still has some nice white spaces in between crushing walls of text!
First off, to point out something about the "being put on the same team" statement: random number generator. Same "highly improbable" probability as any two people. But moving on from there:
To make sure I have what you're saying correct: If I am to vote for madnessman, that would complete your 'chain' and make me more suspicious, yes?
Oh, and "I know I'm legit," so pair 1 is false as well But that's for me to know, and up for me to prove, yes?
madnessman's first post is, yes, directed at me in the FoS form of "why so wordy?" However, his next accusatory post is also directed at me, again in a heavier FoS form of "why so wordy?" Shortly thereafter, he makes a kind of "oops how does he defend my random speculation post."
Now, let's look at some options, shall we? I will limit it to the 'second voting cycle' as well as assuming there are either 2 mafia in this current 3-person cycle (madnessman and myself) or one solitary person as mafia given the 'two rung theory'. 1) madnessman and I are both mafia! Great! madnessman votes for KF91, who is voting for me, in an attempt to kill KF91 off before he can expose his mafia partner. Wait, why is he accusing me then? Oh, wait, he backs off after claiming he does not have 'enough of a base' to work off of. Awesome, he gets to accuse and vote for KF91 while making the connection between us not so obvious. Could this work? Yes? Can I discount it completely other than say "I'm not mafia?" No, so we'll have to keep going. 2) madnessman is mafia, and KF91 and I are not. Cool! Same reasons for how things run out as above, but he's trying to implicate me as well without fully committing. 3) KF91 is mafia, and madnessman and I are not. madnessman genuinely believes that KF91 is mafia, but doesn't trust me. He votes for KF91 without letting up all suspicion on me. KF91 votes for me because he doesn't like wordiness, though he'll appear before voting ends in order to check things out and reevaluate. 4) I'm mafia! Except for I'm not. Though if I were, I haven't openly accused anybody yet, only light FoS in order to get them to post. I haven't actively hounded neither KF91 nor madnessman. 5) None of us are mafia. Definitely a possibility. But the whole point of the game is to be suspicious, yah?
All fine and dandy. If I were to be the type of person to revenge-accuse, I'd be like "OMG VOTE KF91 HE IS MAFIA." Which would tie into myself and madnessman being on the so-called 'team', eh? And if we were, would I vote for madnessman? Nah, I'd vote for KF91 then. All peachy, yes?
But no.
##Vote RebirthOfLegend##
Reasoning: Very little to, I'd dare say, no content in his posts. + Show Spoiler [RoL's posts] +On March 30 2010 11:28 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: OMM HERE On March 30 2010 13:50 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: hai guyz On March 31 2010 04:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: lol wtf? I am already getting raped for inactivity? You guys are crazy.
I dunno if there is much to post for the first day so ima just say it.
##Vote Flamewheel91##
LETS GET THE DRAMA STARTED. On March 31 2010 04:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Oh also, I have work in around an hour, so I won't be active until tonight~~ On March 31 2010 04:09 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Actually, I change my mind.
##Vote L##
You are a pain in the ass to read, and I'd rather you be dead. On March 31 2010 11:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 11:25 CynanMachae wrote: Lack of activity is indeed a bad thing, but so far there has been really little to talk about.
The one right now that drew my attention the most would be RoL, spamming stuff and "starting drama" as he said.
Also, as someone (Flamewheel?) pointed out, comparing people's behavior with past games is a good part of what we should do; is this game KF91's first on TL? I NEED INFORMATION TO WORK WITH, ITS WHY I POST. At this point I have nothing to say. There is no plan to establish, everything obvious has been said. No lynch is a dumbfuck move. Don't lynch RC blues because they aren't mafia. If someone RC blue and you are that role. Counterclaim immediately. Trading blue for red is beneficial to the town. ALRIGHT? Let's take a look at them, shall we?
-His first post is right after the pms are sent out, and right before the game officially starts. Spam. -His second post is also just-as-worthless flak, after L and I have our first back-and-forth over the wordiness of my posts. Also spam. -His third post is a vote for me, a call for drama to start. Cool. -His fourth post tells us he is going to be at work. Remember, this is yesterday. -His fifth post, a whole 7 minutes later after his first vote, calls for L to die instead because RoL doesn't want to read his stuff. Third and fifth posts? Dribble, useless, jesting votes that spur no worthwhile discussion. FoS on me has nothing to do with what RoL says, and very little is said about L from people other than Foolishness. -His sixth and last post is a call to complain about needing information. At this point, enough has been exchanged in the thread that he at least should be able to say something more than "I NEED INFORMATION TO WORK WITH."
Now, I can assume he's at work again. However, he has contributed next to nothing in the time that he should have had to post, that is, the time "tonight" (last night) in which he only posted a complaint.
Conclusion? While I've heard enough "RoL sucks at contributing in mafia" jokes to take them with a grain of salt, this level of activity and contribution to the game appalls me. While I am not 100% sure with my accusation, he stands out in my mind enough that I do not hesitate to make this my formal call-out against him.
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Expanded thoughts on every other player to be typed up starting now. Will be done in a while because I like typing a lot of shtuff^^
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Hi Bill,
Glad to see you're taking L's word as your truth. To me, your IMO doesn't matter much without any proof. Just because I don't disagree with Cynan doesn't mean I support him. Give me reasoning, or give me death! (Since without reasoning, death is assured in this game )
Sincerely, flamewheel91
P.S.: I'm so glad you made my name red! It really brings out the fire in me!
P.P.S.: Jocular mode disengaged.
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On March 31 2010 12:00 Bill Murray wrote: you know what's funny L... we got each other killed day 1 in ace's game and we were trying to help each other! lol Kthxbai.
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Oh, and if your ?? is really as incredulous as I make it out to be, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy over your "buddy-buddy" call-out.
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What do you mean, Bill. With that last statement, you've lost all credibility. I sat here for 20 minutes waiting for a detailed, well-written post on your thoughts, and instead you give me dribble.
See, saying things like "you're being suspicious" and "you're not making sense" doesn't mean shit to any sensible person without you giving a reason. I'm behaving suspiciously under FoS? Your claim? You should give a reason why, else it's a worthless statement.
I like how you've (ostensibly) been here the whole time, yet after 20 minutes shoot back with that last little gem of yours. Saying "I'm going to keep my vote on you unless..." is a perfect way for you to dodge activity, something the town doesn't want. Are you still randomly throwing your vote on me? Are you actually committed to a target? If you are still being random, you're a cool cat. You've contributed little and accused a lot, though your senseless accusations have drawn defenses. If you've committed, you also are doing a poor job in showing that, with your lack of reason.
So far in this argument you've made one claim against me: I'm being "buddy-buddy" with Cynan. Awesome, that could be scumtell! However, I've shown with my post about you saying you're "helping L" that your reasoning is flawed and hypocritical due to similar conditions, yet you don't see me jumping on you for being mafia do you?
I'll ask you again, nicely, to please explain your reasoning behind your sudden and unabated accusations against me. By dismissing what I'm saying offhand, you not only invalidate your own arguments but also cause yourself to look more untrustworthy.
As a bonus, I've got my first two "analyses" done. Ironically, they are on Bill and Cynan since I'm moving down the page.
Bill Murray: + Show Spoiler +As said before, Bill is playing differently, much differently this game. Admirable, I’d say—experience works wonders. No longer spamming, no longer having a shitfest with L (okay well it was actually more one-sided before with Bill trying to ingratiate himself). In particular, the lack of spamming. What does this mean? I’ve never seen Bill in a game as mafia, so I cannot fathom how he’d post. Is this new style of posting his ‘mafia style’? A general rule of thumb is to post similarly as mafia and townie, since then people can’t pull the “well he’s using a different play style.” Bill’s certainly different, and he’s drawing attention. Is he mafia trying to cover up under the guise of improvement? Is he a townie actively trying to improve I don’t know, but at least he’s stirring discussion what with his “traps” and “random votes.” Oh, he does slightly call out Foolishness, except for I read that as more of a defense for Foolishness than FoS Tacked on since the start of his little call-out on me: see above. If he is being random, while it is conducive to drawing defense, he also doesn't have to present his own ideas, nor does he commit since it's all "random." If he's committed on me (which he says he has), then he is not offering suitable reason. Suspicion up.Suspicion? + Show Spoiler +Relatively high, given his different posting style, his ingratiating attitude toward L, and his lack of real contribution besides randomly throwing around votes. Oh, and as I type this he’s accusing me. Wait, so you’re just jumping off what L said? Huh??? Talk about “buddy-buddy” actions… re: see what Versatile says (lol). I'm not convinced enough about Bill in order to vote him at this point (wasn't overly suspicious until his recent actions) but he's getting there.
CynanMachae: + Show Spoiler +Dislikes random kills. Awesome. FoSes on RoL. Awesome as well. Checks up on KF91 to glean information. Awesome x3. Stirs some discussion with the FoS on RoL (I pick up on that, as can be seen above) and draws KF91 more into the light. I’m still suspicious of him though, despite his largely pro-town actions, due to the fact that his contributions to discussion have been minimal. He needs to start talking more and place value into being more active in the town. Suspicion? + Show Spoiler +Relatively low, given his pro-town actions. Of course, anybody can be ‘pro town,’ but Cynan is not very high on my suspect list.
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@Vivi57: In light of recent events, things may change. Bill Murray has moved up in my suspicion list since I posted my accusation of RoL, who isn't even around to defend.
Typing up the rest of the list.
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Foolishness: + Show Spoiler +Needs to start posting his thoughts. Less negating (NOBODY CARES) needed. Encourages activity but does not contribute. However, this is how Foolishness is… in recent games, he’s been the GF twice (XX and XVIII) and is largely silent in terms of bringing new material to the table. However, this is not a large (25 and 50 men for XX and XVIII, respectively) game, so everybody’s voice matters. He needs to start speaking.Suspicion? + Show Spoiler +Moderate. Hasn’t been anti-town yet, but needs to start acting more pro-town. The longer this day goes on without posting, the higher my suspicions become. With only two hours left, this “veteran” player better start opening his mouth. KF91: + Show Spoiler +”New” player. Advocates sitting back and waiting for “more information.” Dislikes wordiness, apparently. Went through his games: in the two games he’s played, he was a mad hatter once and a mafia once. Both times he was virtually inactive, though he gave reasoning behind it and is ‘stepping up’ this game. Needs to start posting ideas of his own, as said by others as well as myself. Suspicion? + Show Spoiler +Moderate. Anti-town advocacy of “waiting for more information” is perfect for mafia. He doesn’t claim to be “new” to the game, but is reluctant to take an active role in participating. L: + Show Spoiler +Veteran player. Hasn’t posted this much this game due to fearing for his “bandwagons” starting, though I fear he’s started one on me due to his sycophant, Bill Murray, latching on. Had a few back-and-forths with Foolishness. Has started discussion on somebody, myself, and as known talking is good for the town. Very nice, if I may say so, analysis of the voting system. No anti-town actions as of yet. Suspicions? + Show Spoiler +Moderately low. L has done nothing this game that would make me think that he’s mafia other than not posting for the first day in order to ‘give other people a chance.’ Tacked on with Vivi57’s vote: Is it only upon his lack of activity that you are voting him? Personally, I found his ‘cycle’ post to be discussion-engaging and helpful. But then again, why would I be defending L you’re going to vote me instead? Madnessman: + Show Spoiler +FoS on me, but light. Accuses KF91 on the basis of KF91 being anti-town with his sit back and relax strategy. Announces that he won’t be back until later tonight after voting is done. However, gets on to defend himself even after Bill Murray has switched his vote. Gives long defense to Bill Murray’s “random” accusation, and Bill just writes it off nonchalantly. Bad WiFOM argument. Why even include it? Suspicion? + Show Spoiler +Moderately high. Gets online after saying that he wouldn’t be able to despite Bill Murray already switching his vote away. Doesn’t post after that (goes back to work?) Bad WiFOM argument in his defense. Accuses KF91 and myself based on relatively weak reasons, and doesn’t follow up on them. RebirthOfLegend I have already posted about.
Vivi57: + Show Spoiler +Semi-random vote for BM based on discrepancy in playing style. Two spam posts lamenting (lol) the lack of Ace. Shifts accusation to Cynan with decent reasoning. Reads the thread after a huge break in posting, doesn’t offer any comments other than voting for L based off his ‘inactivity.’ Suspicion? + Show Spoiler +Moderate. Accuses without bringing forth much original material. Large gap in posting, only to vote for L (slightly hypocritical, given that Vivi’s been just as or more so inactive as L).
With 90 minutes to vote, people really need to start talking and thinking straight. I say this both as a way to spur the town on (which I have been trying to do the entirety of this game) and because I am currently the leading lynch candidate. I'm green, and if/once I'm killed off, the town loses both one of its buffer lynches and a major point of discussion sources.
Specifics:
@L: I want to hear your thoughts. You voted me in order to get me to talk/defend/accuse, and I did. I even drew Bill Murray into it. If you're still serious on voting for me, then I want to hear your reasoning. If not, please withdraw onto a more suitable candidate.
@Bill Murray: I STILL want to hear your thoughts. You're around, or should be soon, since you noted that you would change if something drastic were to happen, meaning that you would be monitoring the thread. You've gotten more suspicious in my eyes, and I want to hear some refutations to the soft FoS I've put on you.
@Foolishness: START POSTING. You have to vote, you know, and it'll be very suspicious (at least in my eyes) if you just show up to ninja-vote at the last minute without reason.
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Sigh, Bill Murray-style.
Dinner for me. Please, people, I would be very happy to see some posts when I get back...
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Meh, two new comments. At least one of them is from Foolishness^^
Dealing with Bill: Squirming involves flailing, and that's what you have done, not me. I've countered your arguments in a methodical and logical manner, and you have (until now) refrained from returning the riposte.
So glad you couldn't have posted this the first time instead of looking for an obvious way out.
I'm also so glad you can float around your new terms such as FoS, AtE, and OMGUS (oh look at how good Bill is now!) but you see here, I haven't voted for you. That's the key thing here, eh? Furthermore, an OMGUS attack is exactly what you're doing against me. While I argue with logic and reason, you just write off what I try to say, and just now are responding.
Please note that I said you were calling out Foolishness and that I read that as a defense. Nice try twisting my words though.
Once again, so glad you give your justification more than an hour late. If/when I die and flip green, expect to get some shit for it.
@Foolishness: I am in no way thinking you're trying to get on my good side, since that shouldn't exist in mafia^^ I'm not personally suspicious of Cynan as of yet (as listed above) but the same went for what I said about you: the longer he goes without posting now, at a crucial time, the more likely he is to be mafia.
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On April 01 2010 10:23 Bill Murray wrote: i don't care if you put FoS on me. you care that i put FoS on you. THAT is squirming. You're wrong. i'm not OMGUS attacking you. you would have had to have voted for me or put FoS on me first, which you didn't. I can't help it you appear so scummy this game compared to your previous games, i'm sorry that this is the case, but i'm still going to vote for you.
keep squirming.
As mentioned many times already, what previous games? I've played one game on TL. So all your talk of "previous games" is negated with that, and because I've given you an explicit reason. You, however, have played multiple games here and have been a very shitty poster in this games. You've shaped up now, eh?
"I can't help if you appear so scummyless ignorant but still very much so this game compared to your previous game[b]s (s correctly on there this time)."
On April 01 2010 10:25 Bill Murray wrote: If you die and flip green, noone will give me shit over anything, as 1) you aren't going to be green; you're scum. 2) if by some low chance you are green, we will realize how scummy you were acting in comparison to your previous play.
that's why we need to lynch you, flamewheel.
Stop spouting hypocrisy Bill! It's not as if you're acting the same... oh wait! Tell me, how is my play "scummy?" Let's not have you write this off either. And the "low chance" you're talking about is 5/9. I'm so glad you've evolved into such a great mafia player that you can discern who mafia are with their incredibly scummy play! Be ready in half an hour to realize that you still don't have a clue, Bill.[/s]
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On April 01 2010 10:30 KF91 wrote:Wow, that's a lot of posts (Compared to what people were posting yesterday) that were posted while I was gone... Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 06:54 flamewheel91 wrote: tl;dr version: This is my second game playing. I changed my play style after observing games. You did the same (changed your style from posting nothing to posting a bit, that is). Accusation faulty based on double standards. Honestly, I have no problem reading your long posts or long posts in general. And the cross-examination with your previous games had very little influence, or even no influence at all when I made my voting decision. All that I stated was that your posts were needlessly long. The paragraphs could have been summed up in a couple of sentences (Except the recent ones you have posted with all your analysis; those provided some good information, I'm not going to lie.) Anyways, onto what has been happening and my thoughts... Where did L get this "string" theory? And like Cynan has stated, why does it only have to be 2 rungs apart? They could be 3 or 4 apart, or maybe one of the Mafia could be voting for their partner (Although that would put them in a VERY dangerous situation). And if L votes for madnessman, wouldn't that give us almost any combination of pairs that are participating in this match? This "string" theory could have been just made up to give an excuse to vote for flamewheel, which I think is highly probable by the observation of his posting style. I would be changing my vote right now to lynch L, but I think what BM said is true: Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 09:54 Bill Murray wrote: I am also not randomly switching votes around. I really believe you might be red. You ask for justification, and i'll give it to you. Of all the people I have put FoS on (nearly everyone), you have squirmed the most. Bravo, considering madnessman was pretty squirmy himself.
This along with what Foolishness wrote in response to my vote towards you: Show nested quote +On April 01 2010 04:19 Foolishness wrote: L didn't want to make an accusation so as to avoid a bandwagon (acceptable reason I guess). So he let other people talk and do the accusing for him. Yet no bandwagon's have happened really, and there's hardly been any defense of votes. Almost like nobody is taking their votes against them seriously, like, "lol BM voted for me? haha what a joke...". I think you are being way too reactive of L's vote towards you, along with how you react towards BM. I don't know if you and BM had some clashes in past mafia games, but I don't think that matters at this point. I will not be changing my vote. One game. Stop using the plurality, since that makes you so obviously wrong.
I react so explicitly because he wants me to talk. This town is silent, and somebody needs to be generating discussion. Turns out it was me, which is perfectly fine. If the best you can come up with is "long posts and is over reactive," so be it.
If you were so dedicated to your vote, you'd go look at it. Bill Murray died the first night due to terrible posting in the one game I've played with him, and I don't believe I corresponded with him at all. You too, should be ready to own up if/when I die and flip green.
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On April 01 2010 07:14 L wrote: Given the link between madnessman and flamewheel, I'm going to start off putting my vote on flamewheel to see wuts up.
Bolding by me. L should be posting more in this game eventually if he's town and see's that it's dead. He also hasn't been around (posted) to offer any new revelations he may have in light of events since his vote.
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Wow L, so glad to see you came back throughout this extended period to see what new had happened.
Alright, green townie dead. With this, L's suspicion level should jump: he placed the vote to spur discussion, yet never came back to read it, even though he knew there was going to be a defense waiting. Bill Murray is also suspicious, both because he enjoys tagging along with L (in trying to stay away from his bad side again) and with his relentless pushing. KF91 just seems like a bandwagoning townie, but not that great of a player.
Remember: confirmed (dead) townie here. Go back and read posts. Good luck, town, but seeing as you're so inactive...
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The deadline was two minutes ago. So nice of you to read the Fiirst day post, and so kind of you to offer another suggestion after it. My reasoning for RoL has already been said and said again by Foolishness.
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