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On April 06 2010 11:45 Iaaan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2010 09:00 Elemenope wrote:On April 06 2010 01:16 ~OpZ~ wrote: LMNOP hasn't said shit I don't really havea nything new to say other than thanks for the anti-nuke d3? I still have my suspicions of Caller, nikon, d3, nemy due to previous reasons listed. Nemy launched his nuke against Nikon which is what we wanted him to do to prove nikon's veteran status which is what this whole thing hinges around. Unless you have any specific questions, I'm not sure what else to contribute until this nuke lands. I have a specific question Seeing as you are suspicious of d3, why do you think his motivations were to use one of his anonymous anti nukes to save you from the anonymous nuke from Xelin/north korea?
Only thing I can see is trying to discredit me or perhaps make him seem more town-like. Why don't you ask him?
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On April 08 2010 11:23 Iaaan wrote: so, just my own little thoughts from my own point of view:
caller checked d3 and he showed up red. thus, if we believe that caller is town, we have to believe that d3 is town. so, with opz and abenson being confirmed as townies, and then myself, caller and d3 being townies to, that leaves jeejee haster lmnop and citizen as mafia.
Since when were you confirmed townie?
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I suppose I should rather ask:
Do you believe Caller or not?
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All I can say is:
On April 08 2010 12:09 citi.zen wrote: In fact, in this game I'm allowed to vote for myself, so here:
##Vote citi.zen
GG town.
rage much?
I don't know who to put my vote on. On one hand, we have Caller who has been relatively inactive and seemingly full of scum. Yet with this claim and the night kills up until now, his action does seem to make sense. If he seemed like a viable lynch target, why would mafia bother to hit him if they can get the town to waste a lynch by lynching him? Unless someone wants to directly counter his claim with a Japan claim.
Then we have Citi.zen/infund who claimed Paranoid Gun Owner, but then says that the role consists solely of nuke-retaliation, which means the main point around the PGO ability has been taken out - hence, it shouldn't even be called PGO anymore.
I'm more leaning that citizen/infund were lying because of that role point. Nikon claimed Veteran, was caught in a lie, and he ended up anti-town. China's ability to launch only retaliation nukes doesn't even seem like a PGO claim at all, I don't see why infund/citizen would claim as such unless it was to avoid night checks which can make sense. The whole nuking thing just seems more of like a nuke restriction, similar to a post restrictions in other games: just to be a hindrance for the person.
I'll see what happens though for a bit since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time to mull things over.
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On April 08 2010 15:16 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 14:31 Elemenope wrote:All I can say is: On April 08 2010 12:09 citi.zen wrote: In fact, in this game I'm allowed to vote for myself, so here:
##Vote citi.zen
GG town. rage much? I don't know who to put my vote on. On one hand, we have Caller who has been relatively inactive and seemingly full of scum. Yet with this claim and the night kills up until now, his action does seem to make sense. If he seemed like a viable lynch target, why would mafia bother to hit him if they can get the town to waste a lynch by lynching him? Unless someone wants to directly counter his claim with a Japan claim. Then we have Citi.zen/infund who claimed Paranoid Gun Owner, but then says that the role consists solely of nuke-retaliation, which means the main point around the PGO ability has been taken out - hence, it shouldn't even be called PGO anymore. I'm more leaning that citizen/infund were lying because of that role point. Nikon claimed Veteran, was caught in a lie, and he ended up anti-town. China's ability to launch only retaliation nukes doesn't even seem like a PGO claim at all, I don't see why infund/citizen would claim as such unless it was to avoid night checks which can make sense. The whole nuking thing just seems more of like a nuke restriction, similar to a post restrictions in other games: just to be a hindrance for the person. I'll see what happens though for a bit since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time to mull things over. You are also correct: everything makes sense except for Inf's role-claim. Meeple's death when Caller visited him was a coincidence, as were many other things Caller has since managed to perfectly explain by changing his story every day. Even his behavioral analysis was spot-on every time: I was trying to defend myself by accusing him, even though at that point there were no accusations on me. Not to mention the martyrdom - that's a clear sign of a mafia, as seen in prior games. So don't bother thinking about any of that - it's cool, just vote. OpZ told you to, and he's confirmed town, right? Just do it - these guys are legit.
I am more leaning towards you lying about your role claim because...you know....you are. Why would you have a Paranoid Gun Owner role when you lack the absolute function of a Paranoid Gun Owner that makes him so Paranoid and a Gun Owner. Your role with what infund and you have claimed may as well be Pussy who won't fire nukes first rather than Paranoid Gun Owner as it definitely pertains a lot more to what your role is supposedly.
Fishball has claimed tracker: he tracked where caller went, as per every single tracker out there in mafia.
Opz and Abenson are Masons, and as such, they can communicate with each other, as per every single mason out there in mafia.
Nikon was SK, and as such, he killed people at night, as per every single SK out there in mafia.
Infund/you are Paranoid Gun Owner, and as such, you don't kill people who visit you at night [even by your own admission], as per....no paranoid gun owner, ever?
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On April 08 2010 19:43 ~OpZ~ wrote: Citizen Caller Iaaan ~OpZ~ Citizen
Caller Citizen Haster27
Can we get our votes on to citizen before the nuke lands?
I'd rather his lynch be already set up.
Nuke lands at 2:03 KST FYI
Just need one more to lynch.
We have til 5:03 KST til nuke lands. I'm not quite sure what clock you're looking at. Also: you have Abenson to call on a vote for Citizen if you truly believe citizen to be scum. I'm also willing to believe as such, but would like to hold my vote a bit unless there's anything else he or haster want to say.
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On April 09 2010 00:36 ~OpZ~ wrote: Really? Damn...So add JeeJee to my vote for Citizen list...
You know, if you want to say something, it'd be preferable to say it as soon as possible.
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Perhaps you know...us people that somehow seem to be missing a big portion of this puzzle could be clued in?
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i'm not going to argue the other two points as that's more for shinbi to answer imo.
On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote: Argument against setup "all we know is that there isn't five mafia": your entire argument hinges on this argument being true. I can only see you thinking Caller/~OpZ~/Abenson/d3/yourself are Townies, because otherwise I cannot see why you would make such statement with confidence. Let me state this means nothing. If Caller is Mafia he and d3_crescentia are no longer confirmed Townie. If so it is still possible there are five Mafia present in the game. Also, you berate laaan for never "[considering] the point that there might not be four mafia, but less", but did anyone ever express an opinion that there might be less than three Mafia previous to your post?
It's mathematically impossible for there to be 5 mafia. Are you even paying attention at all? And secondly: I did express concerns that there may be no mafia at all in fact, and it may be two anti-town SKs actually, prior to Nemy launching his nuke towards Nikon I believe actually.
I'd still like to hear Opz/Abenson's reasoning behind suddenly switching votes, especially at the last second, and secondly: the nuke on Iaaan.
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On April 09 2010 06:41 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote: With ~OpZ~ and Abenson changing his opinion, JeeJee seems to be most detailed post arguing for citizen lynch. Let me rip his arguments to shreds.
Argument about vote counts This argument also assumes that entire Mafia players chose to vote for one person three consecutive days. Seriously? I thought the most basic assumption about Mafia voting pattern was that they would try to avoid suspicion by spreading their votes as much as possible. Yes, they were all bandwagon votes, but RoL and Xelin bandwagon had so much steam going into it there was little reason for Mafia to all-in every time. Overall his repeated statement that four of us voted for same person over and over again is WIFOM.
Another specific flaw I found; JeeJee states that four of us created wagon against Nikon when only alternative lynch target was Caller- only for citizen and me to start Caller bandwagon very next day. What? If Caller also is Townie, why wouldn't we have followed the bandwagon suggested by confirmed Townie? Remember you said we are not following the bandwagon that has already formed, but started it. There must be motive for Mafia to start the bandwagon that goes against the argument of confirmed Townie, and therefore draw suspicion later on. If both Nikon and Caller is Townie, it is absolutely illogical for Mafia to continue their bandwagon against Nikon and Caller even when confirmed Townie is strongly arguing for alternative lynch target.
Argument against abilities If Mafia - Caller in this case because he is certainly Mafia if citizen is innocent - intended to start bandwagon against citizen, they might easily could have chosen to keep their nuke-stealer in check to further incriminate him. Absense of nuke steal proves nothing.
I cannot even understand what you are arguing here. Citizen had his nuke stolen (because immobile three nukes are perfect nuke-stealer target), but cannot say it publicly because it proves his ability cannot NK the people visiting him? Um... didn't we get that verified when Caller claimed to have checked him? I feel like I did not completely understand your point here, so clarification is welcome.
Argument against setup "all we know is that there isn't five mafia": your entire argument hinges on this argument being true. I can only see you thinking Caller/~OpZ~/Abenson/d3/yourself are Townies, because otherwise I cannot see why you would make such statement with confidence. Let me state this means nothing. If Caller is Mafia he and d3_crescentia are no longer confirmed Townie. If so it is still possible there are five Mafia present in the game. Also, you berate laaan for never "[considering] the point that there might not be four mafia, but less", but did anyone ever express an opinion that there might be less than three Mafia previous to your post?
I have to go momentarily for now, so I'll post my thought about JeeJee's remaining arguments later.
Where were you to further argue with me earlier? I would of preferred that. Honestly I have no idea which of you is mafia. Caller not being mafia pretty much hands the game over to town, right then and there. Almost everyone becomes confirmed. Sounds extremely nice. Now let's see if he's right. Citizen voters and would-be voters: Iaaan LMNOP Caller JeeJee
I would like this to be noted. I would also like it to be noted all who didn't cast their votes. D3. Abenson, Haster, Myself, Citizen. Let's see where this goes after Caller dies. D3 cast your vote.
Before going any further: I'd like to hear your mafia suspect list.
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On April 09 2010 07:19 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 06:46 Elemenope wrote:On April 09 2010 06:41 ~OpZ~ wrote:On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote: With ~OpZ~ and Abenson changing his opinion, JeeJee seems to be most detailed post arguing for citizen lynch. Let me rip his arguments to shreds.
Argument about vote counts This argument also assumes that entire Mafia players chose to vote for one person three consecutive days. Seriously? I thought the most basic assumption about Mafia voting pattern was that they would try to avoid suspicion by spreading their votes as much as possible. Yes, they were all bandwagon votes, but RoL and Xelin bandwagon had so much steam going into it there was little reason for Mafia to all-in every time. Overall his repeated statement that four of us voted for same person over and over again is WIFOM.
Another specific flaw I found; JeeJee states that four of us created wagon against Nikon when only alternative lynch target was Caller- only for citizen and me to start Caller bandwagon very next day. What? If Caller also is Townie, why wouldn't we have followed the bandwagon suggested by confirmed Townie? Remember you said we are not following the bandwagon that has already formed, but started it. There must be motive for Mafia to start the bandwagon that goes against the argument of confirmed Townie, and therefore draw suspicion later on. If both Nikon and Caller is Townie, it is absolutely illogical for Mafia to continue their bandwagon against Nikon and Caller even when confirmed Townie is strongly arguing for alternative lynch target.
Argument against abilities If Mafia - Caller in this case because he is certainly Mafia if citizen is innocent - intended to start bandwagon against citizen, they might easily could have chosen to keep their nuke-stealer in check to further incriminate him. Absense of nuke steal proves nothing.
I cannot even understand what you are arguing here. Citizen had his nuke stolen (because immobile three nukes are perfect nuke-stealer target), but cannot say it publicly because it proves his ability cannot NK the people visiting him? Um... didn't we get that verified when Caller claimed to have checked him? I feel like I did not completely understand your point here, so clarification is welcome.
Argument against setup "all we know is that there isn't five mafia": your entire argument hinges on this argument being true. I can only see you thinking Caller/~OpZ~/Abenson/d3/yourself are Townies, because otherwise I cannot see why you would make such statement with confidence. Let me state this means nothing. If Caller is Mafia he and d3_crescentia are no longer confirmed Townie. If so it is still possible there are five Mafia present in the game. Also, you berate laaan for never "[considering] the point that there might not be four mafia, but less", but did anyone ever express an opinion that there might be less than three Mafia previous to your post?
I have to go momentarily for now, so I'll post my thought about JeeJee's remaining arguments later.
Where were you to further argue with me earlier? I would of preferred that. Honestly I have no idea which of you is mafia. Caller not being mafia pretty much hands the game over to town, right then and there. Almost everyone becomes confirmed. Sounds extremely nice. Now let's see if he's right. Citizen voters and would-be voters: Iaaan LMNOP Caller JeeJee
I would like this to be noted. I would also like it to be noted all who didn't cast their votes. D3. Abenson, Haster, Myself, Citizen. Let's see where this goes after Caller dies. D3 cast your vote. Before going any further: I'd like to hear your mafia suspect list. Please cast your vote for the suspect that seems most scummy. JeeJee should say his role now. I assume he's protown. I assume Iaaan is protown also through knowledge of the daytime nuke protection. Now there is Caller and LMNOP I can't judge. Abenson and I are masons. 2 confirms, and 2 EXTREMELY likely townies. Haster, Citizen vs. Caller - Let's see where it goes. And the nonposting d3. I'm not going to post my suspects. Please post your vote and further arguments. Convince me I'm wrong. I shouldn't need to explain my change of vote to someone who didn't vote.
How can I convince you that you're wrong when you don't even list a suspect list? You claim that we should just lynch Caller and see where this goes when if we lynch Caller and he's town, we lose if there is 4 mafia alive.
With the way you've been acting the previous day and this day, I'd almost say that you and Abenson are in fact mafia and are trying to play off Mason.
The fact that you all are so hasty with your votes when we're in most likely a lylo situation is just suspicious. Do you not understand the implications of a mislynch? Stop trying to act so high and might because I'm not voting right away when we're in a lylo situation.
You need to explain your change of vote.
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On April 09 2010 07:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 07:37 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...LMNOP...
You were perfectly fine with Citizens death at 5:03.
Had I not nuked, we would not be having this discussion. Don't act like my change to Caller even matters at this point. The fact that you were perfectly fine not voting, DESPITE THE DAY WOULD HAVE ENDED TWO AND A HALF HOURS AGO. Did you notice Citizen didn't change his vote? Oh, and if you would of voted, guess what? MY VOTE CHANGE WOULDN'T OF MATTERED.
So, let me get this straight...you were perfectly fine in this lylo situation to be over with a citizen lynch earlier. but once I change my vote to Caller you need to think about it?
Hi Mafia. EBWOP: citizen didn't change his vote til 5:46. My bad. Before you use that against my argument. You were fine with citizens death earlier but now you need time to think about it? Well you are GOD DAMNED WELCOME FOR THE TIME THAT MY VOTE CHANGE/NUKE allowed us to have. A thank you would be appreciated.
Because what I'm concerned is that a) you were pushing hard for Citizen to get lynched and how Caller is town and throw your vote on him, then suddenly b) you change it ~3 minutes before the nuke lands with no explanation whatsoever
and suddenly we're supposed to take your word for it and vote Caller? I say before your vote switch to say something on why you said
Really? Damn...So add JeeJee to my vote for Citizen list...
You completely ignore that and then change your vote at the last moment, then try to play it off as nothing has happened?
I was not fine with citizen dying in the lynch at all as I felt there's something missing, yet there's nothing I could do about it. You know why I didn't throw a vote? Because it's obvious that you would throw a nuke before the one Abenson launched landed. Even without that, what was I supposed to do? Launch a nuke myself? I don't have 5 votes to throw around on somebody else, so unless you wanted me to launch a nuke, there wasn't anything I could do.
The way I see it is this: Assuming Caller is Town His early inactivity was suspicious. Claiming Israel DT in response to Fishball's tracker claim was itself suspicious given circumstances. And then coming with the citizen=scum claim. However, this is where I feel that it can make sense.
First off: as citizen so delicately put it
Use reasoning not faith. Caller gets a nuke launched at him. He asks for the town to save him, but he has to take care of it himself. He checks Nikon, but then bussed onto Meeple.
This is the first point: we currently don't have any mafia lynched or killed, we only have Nikon who was anti-town SK killed. We have no way of confirming just yet of the abilities of mafia which also means we can't truly deny the fact that there may be a bus driver.
Meeple turned up scum to the alignment check, while we all know that meeple was blue. Hence, something is wrong with this. A DT can have 4 different sanities: sane, naive, paranoid, and insane, all of which influence the DT's accuracy check since DTs are quite overpowered, especially when paired with a medic and especially when mafia only have one KP. A medic-DT combo is nigh unstoppable when mafia KP is one which it is in this case, so it's logical to assume that if there are DTs, they may have varying sanities.
Versatile is hit, and Caller claims he checked d3 and result came up as scum as well to alignment check. We don't gain any new information in this case.
Fishball is then hit, and Caller claims he checked Infund/citizen, and result came up as Innocent to alignment check. This is quite a clear giveaway as to the allignment of Infund/citizen as the only other possibility that would allow an innocent meeple who turned up scum to a check and an innocent infund who turned up innocent to a check is that Ace is a douche bag who just randomly gave scum/innocent to alignment checks to the DT. I think we can all agree that this is highly unlikely.
On top of this, Caller claims Japan saying that he didn't want to seem like a likely night hit target. Let's look at the lynches so far: RoL, Xelin, and Nikon. In RoL's case, he was just a random vote in order to force a day one lynch, but then he launched a nuke. Xelin: launched an anonymous nuke, claim he didn't do it, then later claim he did in fact do so. Then he launches a nuke at Zona, and everybody votes for him. Nikon: launches a fake nuke at Iaaan, then tells me to launch a nuke at him, to which Nemy actually follows through which ends up getting reversed, and we lynch Nikon.
Now, this whole time: Caller was suspicious as fuck from Day 1 because of the save from the first nuke and the fact that he was inactive. We had asked Japan to come forward, and we even had a huge debate which, may I remind you, ended up getting L killed as to whether Japan should step forward or not. This was a continuing theme throughout the days as people wondered "Why wouldn't Japan step forward to claim that he saved Caller if he was truly town?" Then we come to the last day: the reason nobody did is because Caller was Japan. Unless someone wants to come out and claim either Israel or Japan to refute Caller?
Now let's look at the night kill targets: Meeple, Amber, Versatile, and Fishball. With the exception of Fishball up until his claim, all of these players attempted to generate discussion among the town in order to hopefully get scum to leak a tell, especially on the first day. None of these players were completely inactive. If Caller wanted to not seem like a good target for a night hit, then he did very well going off the kill list that has happened thus far.
Now going off from this: I can only see a few things that can completely invalidate Caller's claim when given a closer look: 1) Somebody claiming Japan 2) Somebody claiming Israel 3) Somebody claiming Bus Driver
If anybody else can think of any other thing to negate Caller's claim that's not the above 3, then say so; preferably something other than "he was just making it up, he was hiding the whole time and is just trying to save himself" as that can pretty much be argued for anybody at this current moment.
On April 09 2010 07:58 haster27 wrote: Remember I am new to TL Mafia. If you are going to dismiss it as mathematics, you are at least going to need to show your entire work to get marks. However, I acknowledge my mistake if you really suggested there were no Mafia- however, having team of three Mafia and two independent SK who may or may not know each other is completely different thing. In case this is two SK game, laaan has no reason to defend a position about number of mafia- thus JeeJee's point is still moot.
Here is why there cannot be 5 mafia: We have 9 people alive. Mafia win when a majority is reached. Thus if there's 5 mafia alive at the moment, then that would be 5 mafia and 4 town, meaning Mafia would win.
Secondly:
Halt. This is so hypocritical I don't know where to begin.
1) Town is in lylo position; thus it equally means that if citizen is lynched and he is town, we lose.
Correct.
2) ~OpZ~ and Abenson cannot be Mafia. Believe me, yesterday I REALLY REALLY wanted to believe they are intelligent Mafia, but I knew it was not possible because of two facts: 1) false-claiming one's country so early in the game is suicidal because he could accidentally claim a country being represented by another player, and 2) their nuke switching ability which was proved by ~OpZ~ and Abenson false-nuking each other. Since nuke-stealer is Mafia, it is highly likely nuke switching ability would go to Townie.
Hold on. First off: one - they do not need to false claim their country at all if they were mafia.
Secondly, their nuke switching ability was not proven at all in fact because we haven't seen a nuke fired by either of those two that actually was real. It's not hard to claim you have a nuke switching ability and fire off fake nukes at each other if *all your nukes are fake regardless*. And since Abenson had took the liberty of shooting a nuke so early on [which was largely unnecessary as town only needs to reach a majority lynch. Assuming everybody was thinking, which apparently wasn't the case, then nobody would throw out a lynch vote if there were no nukes in the air], and now that Opz had shot a nuke at Iaaan, now they can't prove they have a real nuke now anymore since they both used their initation nuke and they can only nuke once a day. Unless you're claiming that you have actually stolen their real nukes, I don't see how you can create a definitive proof that their nuke switching ability is in fact verified.
Overall First off, I don't get why you guys are so accusatory saying that I don't understand the situation of the lylo we're in. The fact that I haven't thrown out a vote gives a very indicative statement that I know exactly what situation we're in unlike the rest of you voters. So don't ever try to say that I was content with letting citizen die and caller live or letting Caller die and citizen live or whatever. What I'm looking to see is if there's definitive proof that can justify the lynch of one or the other. Until then, all I have is circumstances that on the surface, looks fishy as fuck, but once taken from an objective point of view, does make sense. I never explicitly claimed that Caller is town or that citizen is scum or vice-versa, but from what I've seen, it looks like that Caller is in fact town though now that we do have a nuke out in the air again, I'm very happy to hear arguments relating to this. More importantly: on why Opz changed his vote.
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On April 09 2010 08:26 ~OpZ~ wrote: Personally, I'm wondering where the fuck LMNOP disappeared to...discussing it with his mafia brothers?
Because this is supposed to be my sole attention and it's not as if I play HoN or take breaks in typing or any of the sort.
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On April 09 2010 09:00 ~OpZ~ wrote: LMNOP are you missing the fact that you argued COMPLETELY against ONLY citizen and not caller?
No, I'm really not. What else do I have to argue when Caller's situation makes sense in retrospect; however the role claim of a role whose inherent role properties have been removed when no other role in the game has had any portion of their role taken away is very suspicious to me. This has been the whole point of why I railed against citizen/infund, because the role of Paranoid Gun Owner has been claimed by infund yesterday, yet even by his/citizen's own admission today, that is not in fact what their role is. Are you completely missing this fact?
You didn't argue WITH ANYONE for not voting, despite you thinking the WHOLE TOWN should be thinking. This is not what you do. I argued all day, and extended the day MULTIPLE times, and set up a decent idea yesterday. I tried to pull votes, I bashed Caller all day yesterday. Even suggested Nikon was third party. And then next, IF you KNEW as you claim I was going to extend the day, THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN why casting your vote mattered? There is no lynch til all nukes land, and according to you, you knew they wouldn't be landing anytime soon. Not like it would matter. and AGAIN Do you not realize that why I changed my vote doesn't matter? I've done explained IF I DIDN'T THE DAY WOULD HAVE ENDED. You pointed this out. I've pointed this out. You seem to be okay with the day not being over, but upset about me changing my vote? Because if I didn't then Citizen would have been lynched by his own hand? Because I wanted more discussion? Because you didn't vote? Because I think Caller is mafia? Because I'm stupid? Because I'm a jack ass? TAKE A REASON.
Stop pointing your dirty red fingers at me.
The reason I didn't cast a vote? Because we don't know if mafia have an anti-nuke or not still
Seriously, Why the fuck are you guys casting votes when we have no idea if there's a mafia anti-nuke out there? If there's a majority on a townie, that's a fucking game over right there if mafia launch an anti-nuke. Think.
This is why I'm upset. The fact that you railed against Caller yesterday, suddenly reversed your opinion in an almost 180 degrees today when Caller does his claim, then do another 180 for no apparent reason at the very last fucking second in order to get a majority on Caller. I'm finding your Mason claim especially suspicious now.
First off: you two are Masons, supposedly confirmed on Day 1. I'm not sure if other people realize this but Masons are a very fucking important role for the town. They have free communication with each other, they know each other to be confirmed townies. This is a tremendous advantage in terms of information gathering. The fact that the mafia haven't killed you yet to nullify this advantage just amazes the fuck out of me.
Secondly: You guys seem to be hardly coordinated as Masons. First lynch: 15 people vote for RoL, you two were two among them. Second lynch on Xelin: Abenson votes for Xelin while you vote for Caller. Third lynch on Nikon: Abenson doesn't even vote while you vote for Caller. You guys are supposed to be Masons. Confirmed townies that know each other to be confirmed townies. Yet you guys can't even coordinate your votes properly. Bad Mason communication? Or perhaps mafia trying to spread votes?
Thirdly: This whole day? Looks like fucking bullshit overall. Seriously. I don't see the logic at all from going to attacking Caller yesterday, even claiming that Caller should be lynched over Nikon yesterday, to defending Caller and throwing a vote on citizen, then at the last second switching to Caller and claiming that you don't need to give the reason for your switch in vote other than "well, he could be lying." Well guess what, so could every fucking person in here. The fact that both you, abenson, citizen, *and* haster all voted for Caller, tipping this into a precarious situation doesn't sit well with me. On top of that, with this missile being shot, this looks like a fucking setup in order to get a townie killed through having a majority vote sit during a nuke launch, then anti-nuking it while it's in the air. This whole nuke passing thing seems like bullshit, especially since they can choose to do it as many times in the day as they please it seems.
Even looking back, it makes sense too. As I said earlier, what if the mafia have an anti-nuke still available? You two have been the ones initiating these false nukes today and yesterday in order to extend the time. Then when nemy launches a missile, and gets it reflected back, you save an anti-missile. This creates the illusion that there are no anti-missiles available to the town to use. Then suddenly, you two launch these presumably fake nukes with the same intention of making sure a majority vote doesn't happen too soon and that we have things to discuss, but at the same time, masking your intention to get a majority vote on a townie, then doing a surprise anti-nuke and thus ending the game. I have no nukes and have no problem launching a fake in order to extend the day if this is going to be ignored in favored of a "well, this guy seemed suspicious from day 1, so let's lynch him when we're in a lylo situation" defense.
If you want a vote ##vote: Opz.
I would highly suggest, haster, that you look at your vote again. The so-called Masons may in fact just be fucking Mafia.
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On April 09 2010 10:04 haster27 wrote:Show nested quote +The reason I didn't cast a vote? Because we don't know if mafia have an anti-nuke or not still
Seriously, Why the fuck are you guys casting votes when we have no idea if there's a mafia anti-nuke out there? If there's a majority on a townie, that's a fucking game over right there if mafia launch an anti-nuke. Think. It does not matter. In every instance the nuke was intercepted, the day still continued on as normal because the fact that nuke has been intercepted is only revealed at the time nuke is supposed to land. Since your entire argument against ~OpZ~ being Mafia relies on this misunderstanding, this effectively nullifies your entire case against him. Show nested quote +This is why I'm upset. The fact that you railed against Caller yesterday, suddenly reversed your opinion in an almost 180 degrees today when Caller does his claim, then do another 180 for no apparent reason at the very last fucking second in order to get a majority on Caller. I'm finding your Mason claim especially suspicious now. In fact I find this absoultely brilliant; I think I understand the reasoning behind his actions, but I am going to keep silent about this unless ~OpZ~ himself speaks up.
Ok, I'll just give the relevant quotes here for you, though you yourself should know about this.
On March 26 2010 09:11 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 09:09 L wrote: 1) that wasn't in the rules.
2) if i couldn't, i said I'd nuke ~Opz~ in the nose.
1.) Something like that you don't assume.
2.) It didn't matter anyway because the anti-nuke was in before your post.
If you remember first day when L tried to nuke himself, this happened. Read point 2 of what Ace said. If you want time frame of reference:
On March 25 2010 15:45 Ace wrote: Day ends at 08:54 KST at the current time
On March 26 2010 08:29 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 08:26 haster27 wrote: 08:54 KST
We have exactly 28 minutes to discuss this. Nope. And since I see no rules against this: ##nuke: LI have no nukes, sup. While I'd love to keep the fact that I have no nukes a secret to dissuade morans from throwing nuclear bomblets at my precious face, I will have to do what I have to do. If we ever need a day extended, I can now bomb myself.
Notice that the day would've ended at 08:54KST, and that L had nuked himself at 8:29KST, yet Ace said it didn't matter since the anti-nuke came in before that.
On March 25 2010 12:16 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 10:46 haster27 wrote: SInce it is done by PM, I am predicting we will not know until either the nuke lands, or at least until Ace comes back. There is plenty of time for us to make a decision about what to do with that nuke.
I am leaving for today. Hope somehow everything ends up well tomorrow. I wont tell you how this works because I'm trying to leave it up to the players of this game to use their heads ^_^
What I can tell you is that, and I've answered this in PMs I think is that if an anti-nuke is used even if I get the PM immediately I wont post that it was used. This is to avoid a situation where it would be obvious that someone posting used it.
This just shows that Ace does treat the day as having ended once that anti-nuke PM is sent in rather than when the missile would have landed.
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On April 09 2010 10:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 09:40 Elemenope wrote:On April 09 2010 09:00 ~OpZ~ wrote: LMNOP are you missing the fact that you argued COMPLETELY against ONLY citizen and not caller? No, I'm really not. What else do I have to argue when Caller's situation makes sense in retrospect; however the role claim of a role whose inherent role properties have been removed when no other role in the game has had any portion of their role taken away is very suspicious to me. This has been the whole point of why I railed against citizen/infund, because the role of Paranoid Gun Owner has been claimed by infund yesterday, yet even by his/citizen's own admission today, that is not in fact what their role is. Are you completely missing this fact? You didn't argue WITH ANYONE for not voting, despite you thinking the WHOLE TOWN should be thinking. This is not what you do. I argued all day, and extended the day MULTIPLE times, and set up a decent idea yesterday. I tried to pull votes, I bashed Caller all day yesterday. Even suggested Nikon was third party. And then next, IF you KNEW as you claim I was going to extend the day, THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN why casting your vote mattered? There is no lynch til all nukes land, and according to you, you knew they wouldn't be landing anytime soon. Not like it would matter. and AGAIN Do you not realize that why I changed my vote doesn't matter? I've done explained IF I DIDN'T THE DAY WOULD HAVE ENDED. You pointed this out. I've pointed this out. You seem to be okay with the day not being over, but upset about me changing my vote? Because if I didn't then Citizen would have been lynched by his own hand? Because I wanted more discussion? Because you didn't vote? Because I think Caller is mafia? Because I'm stupid? Because I'm a jack ass? TAKE A REASON.
Stop pointing your dirty red fingers at me. The reason I didn't cast a vote? Because we don't know if mafia have an anti-nuke or not stillSeriously, Why the fuck are you guys casting votes when we have no idea if there's a mafia anti-nuke out there? If there's a majority on a townie, that's a fucking game over right there if mafia launch an anti-nuke. Think.This is why I'm upset. The fact that you railed against Caller yesterday, suddenly reversed your opinion in an almost 180 degrees today when Caller does his claim, then do another 180 for no apparent reason at the very last fucking second in order to get a majority on Caller. I'm finding your Mason claim especially suspicious now. First off: you two are Masons, supposedly confirmed on Day 1. I'm not sure if other people realize this but Masons are a very fucking important role for the town. They have free communication with each other, they know each other to be confirmed townies. This is a tremendous advantage in terms of information gathering. The fact that the mafia haven't killed you yet to nullify this advantage just amazes the fuck out of me. Secondly: You guys seem to be hardly coordinated as Masons. First lynch: 15 people vote for RoL, you two were two among them. Second lynch on Xelin: Abenson votes for Xelin while you vote for Caller. Third lynch on Nikon: Abenson doesn't even vote while you vote for Caller. You guys are supposed to be Masons. Confirmed townies that know each other to be confirmed townies. Yet you guys can't even coordinate your votes properly. Bad Mason communication? Or perhaps mafia trying to spread votes? Thirdly: This whole day? Looks like fucking bullshit overall. Seriously. I don't see the logic at all from going to attacking Caller yesterday, even claiming that Caller should be lynched over Nikon yesterday, to defending Caller and throwing a vote on citizen, then at the last second switching to Caller and claiming that you don't need to give the reason for your switch in vote other than "well, he could be lying." Well guess what, so could every fucking person in here. The fact that both you, abenson, citizen, *and* haster all voted for Caller, tipping this into a precarious situation doesn't sit well with me. On top of that, with this missile being shot, this looks like a fucking setup in order to get a townie killed through having a majority vote sit during a nuke launch, then anti-nuking it while it's in the air. This whole nuke passing thing seems like bullshit, especially since they can choose to do it as many times in the day as they please it seems. Even looking back, it makes sense too. As I said earlier, what if the mafia have an anti-nuke still available? You two have been the ones initiating these false nukes today and yesterday in order to extend the time. Then when nemy launches a missile, and gets it reflected back, you save an anti-missile. This creates the illusion that there are no anti-missiles available to the town to use. Then suddenly, you two launch these presumably fake nukes with the same intention of making sure a majority vote doesn't happen too soon and that we have things to discuss, but at the same time, masking your intention to get a majority vote on a townie, then doing a surprise anti-nuke and thus ending the game. I have no nukes and have no problem launching a fake in order to extend the day if this is going to be ignored in favored of a "well, this guy seemed suspicious from day 1, so let's lynch him when we're in a lylo situation" defense. If you want a vote ##vote: Opz. I would highly suggest, haster, that you look at your vote again. The so-called Masons may in fact just be fucking Mafia. mafia either A) had only one and used it to save Caller, or B) Citizen is mafia. Mafia would of used it to kill citizen earlier. Thank you LMNOP.
Are you fucking blind? I’m fucking saying that because the anti-nuke wasn’t used when citizen at 5 votes, both you and citizen are fucking mafia. Why the fuck would you anti the nuke when it would kill your mafia buddy?
Our votes? Did we need to be on the same person? Caller wasn't getting lynched yesterday, it was obvious. Abenson took his vote to no lynch, AFTER I told him to so we wouldn't kill without discussion. He just never changed it because IT DIDN'T MATTER. Again, his vote for Xelin? It didn't matter again. Go read the numbers. I told him a lynch is better than no lynch. I believe I argued for Xelin's lynch rather repetitively. I've also BEEN ARGUING FOR CALLERS LYNCH ALL GAME. So our votes can just be thrown away at a whim? Sounds like a poor fucking explanation on why you’re using votes. And what does it matter if you’ve been arguing Caller’s lynch all game? If you’re scum, then who gives a fuck who you try to lynch all game as long as he’s a fucking townie?
I had a very important point with all of this. Asking haster to look at his vote again? Haster voted For Caller BEFORE ME. Haster Argued with me for lynching Caller. He's argued not to lynch Citizen. The fact that you disappeared when Citizen WAS ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED is a point enough to be suspicious of you. You don't seem to be vanishing when Caller's head is on the chopping block, yet you don't give to shits when citizen's getting it? So what could I do in order to prevent citizen from being lynched? Do I have 5 fucking votes to throw around? Here’s another ability of mine as townie: I only have one vote to use Yeah, a lot of help I can fucking save citizen with with one vote. Sorry that not everybody has time to stay around their computer for many hours in the midday like you did. Considering my last post was 00:51, asking you to clarify what you meant by
On April 09 2010 00:51 Elemenope wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 00:36 ~OpZ~ wrote: Really? Damn...So add JeeJee to my vote for Citizen list... You know, if you want to say something, it'd be preferable to say it as soon as possible. And I didn’t come back to post until 5:58 somehow makes me seem content with this? I asked what you meant by your ambiguous statement, asking clarification and for you to express your thoughts on the matter more. Yet you didn't even explain what you meant at all until after the nuke lands and vote switches. Don’t you dare try to pin me saying that I was content with letting citizen die. Hell, by your own admission, there were going to be more nukes.
On April 08 2010 15:01 ~OpZ~ wrote: We're gonna have a few nukes in the air. I'm not letting the mafia weasel their way out and get Caller lynched. Haster and Citizen's arguments are complete shit. You, me, and even caller himself have pretty much decimated each of their arguments....It's a really pathetic attempt. Citizen will probably remove his vote.
I will extend until we have a majority. I am not dealing with one of these no lynch situations. I'd have Abenson vote and have it anti-nuked if I he were here.
Oh look, you’re even talking about exactly what I was accusing you of, and you’re trying to say you’re not suspicious with this sudden swing in vote?
Oh yea, I been saving my anti-nukes all right. Just waiting for the right moment when a townie's gonna get lynched. Me and JeeJee tried to save RoL for a bit, realized we couldn't...then just sat there like "Fuck." I've ACTUALLY SAVED Zona from being nuked. PROVEN BY ABENSONS CLAIM OF U.K. and U.K. SAVING ZONA. Pow, right in the kisser.
Sure, as long as it makes you look more town-favored, since even if all your mafia buddies were to die, who would think to turn on the claimed Masons? In case you aren’t understanding what I’m saying, I’m saying that your anti-nuke is worth fuckall for the town because if it comes down to it, the town would think you and Abenson are innocent, and would have no reason to nuke you anyway.
Hardly “Pow, right in the kisser.”
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You know, it'd be nice if you could address instead of just letting it fall off the page.
On April 09 2010 10:33 Elemenope wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 10:07 ~OpZ~ wrote:On April 09 2010 09:40 Elemenope wrote:On April 09 2010 09:00 ~OpZ~ wrote: LMNOP are you missing the fact that you argued COMPLETELY against ONLY citizen and not caller? No, I'm really not. What else do I have to argue when Caller's situation makes sense in retrospect; however the role claim of a role whose inherent role properties have been removed when no other role in the game has had any portion of their role taken away is very suspicious to me. This has been the whole point of why I railed against citizen/infund, because the role of Paranoid Gun Owner has been claimed by infund yesterday, yet even by his/citizen's own admission today, that is not in fact what their role is. Are you completely missing this fact? You didn't argue WITH ANYONE for not voting, despite you thinking the WHOLE TOWN should be thinking. This is not what you do. I argued all day, and extended the day MULTIPLE times, and set up a decent idea yesterday. I tried to pull votes, I bashed Caller all day yesterday. Even suggested Nikon was third party. And then next, IF you KNEW as you claim I was going to extend the day, THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN why casting your vote mattered? There is no lynch til all nukes land, and according to you, you knew they wouldn't be landing anytime soon. Not like it would matter. and AGAIN Do you not realize that why I changed my vote doesn't matter? I've done explained IF I DIDN'T THE DAY WOULD HAVE ENDED. You pointed this out. I've pointed this out. You seem to be okay with the day not being over, but upset about me changing my vote? Because if I didn't then Citizen would have been lynched by his own hand? Because I wanted more discussion? Because you didn't vote? Because I think Caller is mafia? Because I'm stupid? Because I'm a jack ass? TAKE A REASON.
Stop pointing your dirty red fingers at me. The reason I didn't cast a vote? Because we don't know if mafia have an anti-nuke or not stillSeriously, Why the fuck are you guys casting votes when we have no idea if there's a mafia anti-nuke out there? If there's a majority on a townie, that's a fucking game over right there if mafia launch an anti-nuke. Think.This is why I'm upset. The fact that you railed against Caller yesterday, suddenly reversed your opinion in an almost 180 degrees today when Caller does his claim, then do another 180 for no apparent reason at the very last fucking second in order to get a majority on Caller. I'm finding your Mason claim especially suspicious now. First off: you two are Masons, supposedly confirmed on Day 1. I'm not sure if other people realize this but Masons are a very fucking important role for the town. They have free communication with each other, they know each other to be confirmed townies. This is a tremendous advantage in terms of information gathering. The fact that the mafia haven't killed you yet to nullify this advantage just amazes the fuck out of me. Secondly: You guys seem to be hardly coordinated as Masons. First lynch: 15 people vote for RoL, you two were two among them. Second lynch on Xelin: Abenson votes for Xelin while you vote for Caller. Third lynch on Nikon: Abenson doesn't even vote while you vote for Caller. You guys are supposed to be Masons. Confirmed townies that know each other to be confirmed townies. Yet you guys can't even coordinate your votes properly. Bad Mason communication? Or perhaps mafia trying to spread votes? Thirdly: This whole day? Looks like fucking bullshit overall. Seriously. I don't see the logic at all from going to attacking Caller yesterday, even claiming that Caller should be lynched over Nikon yesterday, to defending Caller and throwing a vote on citizen, then at the last second switching to Caller and claiming that you don't need to give the reason for your switch in vote other than "well, he could be lying." Well guess what, so could every fucking person in here. The fact that both you, abenson, citizen, *and* haster all voted for Caller, tipping this into a precarious situation doesn't sit well with me. On top of that, with this missile being shot, this looks like a fucking setup in order to get a townie killed through having a majority vote sit during a nuke launch, then anti-nuking it while it's in the air. This whole nuke passing thing seems like bullshit, especially since they can choose to do it as many times in the day as they please it seems. Even looking back, it makes sense too. As I said earlier, what if the mafia have an anti-nuke still available? You two have been the ones initiating these false nukes today and yesterday in order to extend the time. Then when nemy launches a missile, and gets it reflected back, you save an anti-missile. This creates the illusion that there are no anti-missiles available to the town to use. Then suddenly, you two launch these presumably fake nukes with the same intention of making sure a majority vote doesn't happen too soon and that we have things to discuss, but at the same time, masking your intention to get a majority vote on a townie, then doing a surprise anti-nuke and thus ending the game. I have no nukes and have no problem launching a fake in order to extend the day if this is going to be ignored in favored of a "well, this guy seemed suspicious from day 1, so let's lynch him when we're in a lylo situation" defense. If you want a vote ##vote: Opz. I would highly suggest, haster, that you look at your vote again. The so-called Masons may in fact just be fucking Mafia. mafia either A) had only one and used it to save Caller, or B) Citizen is mafia. Mafia would of used it to kill citizen earlier. Thank you LMNOP. Are you fucking blind? I’m fucking saying that because the anti-nuke wasn’t used when citizen at 5 votes, both you and citizen are fucking mafia. Why the fuck would you anti the nuke when it would kill your mafia buddy? Show nested quote +Our votes? Did we need to be on the same person? Caller wasn't getting lynched yesterday, it was obvious. Abenson took his vote to no lynch, AFTER I told him to so we wouldn't kill without discussion. He just never changed it because IT DIDN'T MATTER. Again, his vote for Xelin? It didn't matter again. Go read the numbers. I told him a lynch is better than no lynch. I believe I argued for Xelin's lynch rather repetitively. I've also BEEN ARGUING FOR CALLERS LYNCH ALL GAME. So our votes can just be thrown away at a whim? Sounds like a poor fucking explanation on why you’re using votes. And what does it matter if you’ve been arguing Caller’s lynch all game? If you’re scum, then who gives a fuck who you try to lynch all game as long as he’s a fucking townie?Show nested quote +I had a very important point with all of this. Asking haster to look at his vote again? Haster voted For Caller BEFORE ME. Haster Argued with me for lynching Caller. He's argued not to lynch Citizen. The fact that you disappeared when Citizen WAS ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED is a point enough to be suspicious of you. You don't seem to be vanishing when Caller's head is on the chopping block, yet you don't give to shits when citizen's getting it? So what could I do in order to prevent citizen from being lynched? Do I have 5 fucking votes to throw around? Here’s another ability of mine as townie: I only have one vote to use Yeah, a lot of help I can fucking save citizen with with one vote. Sorry that not everybody has time to stay around their computer for many hours in the midday like you did. Considering my last post was 00:51, asking you to clarify what you meant by Show nested quote +On April 09 2010 00:51 Elemenope wrote:On April 09 2010 00:36 ~OpZ~ wrote: Really? Damn...So add JeeJee to my vote for Citizen list... You know, if you want to say something, it'd be preferable to say it as soon as possible. And I didn’t come back to post until 5:58 somehow makes me seem content with this? I asked what you meant by your ambiguous statement, asking clarification and for you to express your thoughts on the matter more. Yet you didn't even explain what you meant at all until after the nuke lands and vote switches. Don’t you dare try to pin me saying that I was content with letting citizen die. Hell, by your own admission, there were going to be more nukes. Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 15:01 ~OpZ~ wrote: We're gonna have a few nukes in the air. I'm not letting the mafia weasel their way out and get Caller lynched. Haster and Citizen's arguments are complete shit. You, me, and even caller himself have pretty much decimated each of their arguments....It's a really pathetic attempt. Citizen will probably remove his vote.
I will extend until we have a majority. I am not dealing with one of these no lynch situations. I'd have Abenson vote and have it anti-nuked if I he were here. Oh look, you’re even talking about exactly what I was accusing you of, and you’re trying to say you’re not suspicious with this sudden swing in vote? Show nested quote +Oh yea, I been saving my anti-nukes all right. Just waiting for the right moment when a townie's gonna get lynched. Me and JeeJee tried to save RoL for a bit, realized we couldn't...then just sat there like "Fuck." I've ACTUALLY SAVED Zona from being nuked. PROVEN BY ABENSONS CLAIM OF U.K. and U.K. SAVING ZONA. Pow, right in the kisser.
Sure, as long as it makes you look more town-favored, since even if all your mafia buddies were to die, who would think to turn on the claimed Masons? In case you aren’t understanding what I’m saying, I’m saying that your anti-nuke is worth fuckall for the town because if it comes down to it, the town would think you and Abenson are innocent, and would have no reason to nuke you anyway.Hardly “Pow, right in the kisser.”
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On April 09 2010 22:02 ~OpZ~ wrote: It doesn't make sense. I would never waste an anti-nuke saving town if I was mafia.
WHO THE FUCK IS SAYING THIS? I'M SAYING IF YOU'RE MAFIA, YOU WOULD SAVE A FUCKING MAFIA BY ANTI-NUKING A NUKE HEADED TOWARDS SOMEONE WHEN A TOWNIE HAS MAJORITY VOTE. HOLY FUCK READ.
I also Championed saving L. Your argument is idiotic. There was no need to respond to it. Lol. "Oh hai, you're mafia, but you argued for saving L + saved Zona + breadcrumbed Abenson so two mafia would seem super townie!"
Although I suppose if you believe Caller's BS story, mine seems pretty fucking epic too. Lol...Which story seems more made up. Lol. JeeJee isn't even arguing how town I am. Only you are. Who are you trying to convince I'm mafia LMNOP? Me? Or town?
Lol!!!
Championed saving L? You voted L simply to try to get Abenson off the hook! Are you fucking kidding me? It wasn't until Zona came in and said that we should vote for RoL before the Day 1 Clusterfuck happened!
I'm trying to convince the town and look at the past actions if you want to say you championed for saving L: 1) Abenson was getting lynched, you breadcrumb his name and vote for L, who was the next contender to be voted for a lynch. 2) You claim Mason along with Abenson which pretty much throws every vote off of him 3) Zona comes in saying we should vote for RoL. Haster and myself are the next two to vote for him while you weren't there until the 5th. Don't ever say you were the one who fucking championed any shit
If you forgot that fact too....It was either me and JeeJee (or haster I forget which) who tried to save RoL after him came back posting like a fuck. I also called Nikon as third party, instead of mafia.
The only way you could call Nikon as third party would be either a) also being a third party, aka a 2nd SK, and knowing the ability set, or b) being mafia.
Also, I'm not explaining myself. Haster seems to have caught on. So if he is mafia, he sees wtf I just did. Citizen was about to lynch himself. I extended the day what, 2 minutes before his death? Maybe he was sitting there f5ing to save himself....You damn sure weren't trying to prevent that lynch from occurring right then. Perfectly content in letting it go through right after Abensons nuke fell.
How can you even prove that I was even there when the nuke was going to hit? Seriously. I was not content in it, but there was nothing I could do when some guy makes an ambiguous statement of "Oh, this other guy also voted for him..." and then leaves it at that. When a role is claimed as Paranoid Gun Owner, and the exact fundamental core of the ability is completely removed, it is no longer Paranoid Gun Owner. Want to know why? Because Ace would've made it a completely different role, similar to how he did with Xelin. Ask yourself this: What exactly was Xelin's role? What the fuck is 'da boogie man'? If a role is different from the standard mafia roles, Ace would've given it a completely different role name.
Also, that only applies if I'm scum. I'm a MASON. I've had Zona saved. I tried to get L saved (which BM did), I tried to save RoL. All seem to be confirmed townie to me by now, right? Oh, I also tried to save Nikon and have Caller lynched yesterday....
HOLY FUCK DO YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND HOW THIS GAME WORKS AT FUCKING ALL?
hey guys, I'm Mason. I asked for L to be anti-nuked, I called for a nuke deterrent. I'm Mason guys.
Obviously the town is supposed to believe me now.
You, yourself, have not saved anybody yet. First off: many people were in saving for L, so don't act like you were some holy righteous knight. You did not save Zona, Abenson did. This action has nothing to do with what your alignment is because Mason pairs are not always completely town-aligned pairs. There may be one townie and one mafia within the pair.
You say Oh yea, I been saving my anti-nukes all right. Just waiting for the right moment when a townie's gonna get lynched.
SO THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU SAVE NEMY YESTERDAY. OR DID YOU THINK HE WAS SURELY MAFIA, SINCE YOU KNOW, LAUNCHING A NUKE AT A THIRD PARTY, WHO YOU CLAIM TO KNOW FOR A FACT IS THIRD PARTY BEFORE HIS FLIPPED, WOULD BE DONE BY SOMEONE WHO IS MAFIA. You didn't save anybody yet. Period.
If you were truly trying to save L, then you would've anti-nuked his nuke before BM did, or you would've anti-nuked the nuke by Versatile. Stop trying to take credit for saving someone when you didn't do shit.
Haster, if you would like to post what I've done, be my guest. I want someone else to show LMNOP how amazing blatantly obvious I just raped him. If you're wrong don't feel bad, cuz I'm pretty sure your right. It was pretty brilliant, IF Caller is mafia.
I'd seriously like to see anybody truly say with a sane mind that you have raped me at all.
Um...You have 1 vote, yes. YOU ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DISCUSS, like you seem to be pretty interested in right now? Where was this when Citizen was killing himself YESTERDAY. Maybe you don't have all day to sit around a computer, but you damn sure had time to respond to me nuking and changing my vote.
Citizen was only at 5 votes, BECAUSE he voted for himself. Mafia obviously only have one anti-nuke that they used to save Caller.
I have the ability to discuss, which was why I asked you why you made your ambiguous statement. Are you seriously blind or are you trying to purposefully dodge questions directed at you? What can I do when I ask a question and you don't say anything? come over to your house and beat you up for an answer? I can't discuss an aspect of voting when the person I'm trying to draw discussion from, you, elects to not give an answer to my question. On top of that, I sure had plenty of time to respond to you nuking and changing your vote? I just said how I hadn't even posted until an hour after this has happened. Surely, this must mean that all the 5 hours in between means that I'm at my PC at all times.
On top of this, you say mafia obviously only had one anti-nuke to save Caller. But how do you know this unless you're mafia? In fact, you can't say anything at all about mafia nuke capabilities unless you're mafia.
Also, Ace, this game seems a shit town more balanced than the one on mafia scum. The nuke stealer is arguably a town role if Ace modeled that role off the two games on mafia scum. But I do think you would tell the mafia countries not in the game to prevent the mass roleclaim vs. anti-nukes like it....
It can be argued that the nuke stealer can be either town or mafia. What's your point?
Basically. Points: 1)I'm not mafia, Abenson saved Zona. Your argument is we did that to further our town image...which was already amazingly pro-town.
2)I'm not mafia, I championed saving plenty of pro-town. I tried to save RoL (I only voted for him to save abenson), and I tried to have L saved.
3)I think wasting an anti-nuke saving a townie I had begun to suspect for a bit is crazy...I would damn sure be selfish with it, and NEVER have claimed I had an anti-nuke.
Your arguments for me being mafia are fail. You sat by waiting for citizen to die. You sir, are mafia.
I'm asking Haster to explain what I did, for my own personal Lulz. I'd explain it, but I really want more posting.
1) Abenson saved Zona, yeah, not you. That doesn't mean you aren't mafia.
2) A lot of people championed saving plenty of pro-town, myself included.
3) You claimed you have multiple anti-nukes by your wording earlier. Yet Abenson has only saved one townie, Zona. Why didn't you save Zona or Nemy with your other anti-nukes?
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On April 09 2010 23:29 ~OpZ~ wrote: Maybe I should be more specific
Go read when L was being nuked repetitively. I championed saving him. BM saved him. I couldn't save him at the time because Abenson was the one granted with the Anti-nuke at the time. Abenson saved Zona.
Your out of order right there LMNOP. I breadcrumbed Abenson when I was the one being lynched, AT YOUR URGING. Lol. It's funny...Let's see what JeeJee says about the math though. Someone here is mafia.
I guess for me to be mafia, Citizen Haster Me and Abenson need to be mafia. And that be it with the mafia.... I like that. There's your addition that will work if you wanna use it. I think it's funny.
Incorrect. If you were mafia; then citizen, you, and any two of iaaan/citizen/jeejee/haster are mafia. You being mafia has no bearing on Abenson being mafia at all.
BM saved L, BECAUSE ABENSON WAS NOT ON TO LAUNCH THE ANTI-NUKE. I posted that REPEATEDLY in the thread, and even said "I was not the one given antinukes" to Versatile. Quit ignoring all my other posts that I've made to build your argument. I stated I had anti-nukes because...well I dunno about you, but I don't feel like getting fucking nuked. Caller claimed to not have anti-nukes to save his. Lolz? Argument only works for him?
Nikon claimed to have taken a hit. There was one night kill. Iaaan claimed vet too, but didn't claim to have been hit. Nikon reflected a nuke. Iaaan said vet had day time protection. So NATURALLY, putting two and two together, the average SK is a combination of a vet and a vigi, WITH their own win condition. Don't need to be mafia to figure that much out. Lol. You don't need to be mafia to see that.
HOW CAN YOU KNOW NIKON ACTUALLY TOOK A HIT UNLESS YOU AS MAFIA KNOW YOU HIT HIM? The only way you could know Nikon was third party instead of mafia is if you were mafia. Nikon could've thrown a hit on Versatile as well as mafia, or Nikon could've elected to not use his hit as strange as that may be. It's not natural at all to assume SK is a combination of vet and vigi. Are you daft?
Uhm.... I'm arguing you are mafia. You could of ARGUED for everyone to pull their votes off and think before lynching citizen. But you didn't post for those five hours, NOR did you do ANYTHING before you disappeared. We needed a strong argument TO STOP THE DAY FROM ENDING. And citizen had to go and fuck EVERYTHING up by voting for himself.
LMNOP before citizens death, because he doesn't seem to have a position at all in these posts....right?
I had already said that Caller's position makes more sense than citizen's position. Nobody is arguing that. Your claim that I was content in citizen dying is that since I was on at the time that the nuke was going to land, and did absolutely nothing, then obviously, I'm fine with him dying. That's an illogical conclusion for numerous reason.
For one: I'm of the opinion that claiming he can only launch retaliatory nukes, claiming PGO, then saying that he doesn't have any night-retaliatory action is a lie. There's no sense in that at all.
Secondly, after I do my first post where I say "since a nuke is in the air and we have a bit of time", right after, you even quote me, and say that you'll launch a nuke to extend the day even further. Given your track record for the previous day, am I suddenly supposed to deny your claim?
Thirdly: my last post was at 0:51, 5 complete hours before the nuke hits. And I come back one hour after the nuke hits. Yet this obviously means that I am content with citizen dying. You have not given a logical response to this other than your belief, which may I remind you: citizen says we're not supposed to rely on, that I was on from 11:25 on April 08 to 05:58 of April 09, almost 24 hours for a shitty mafia game. Are you serious? If you're going to bring in time into this to try to out me, then you're going to have to bring in the whole timeslot rather than just a specific section that makes you look better.
1)If Abenson isn't mafia, I'm not mafia? 2)Who have you championed saving specifically? 3)Lol. If you didn't have any anti-nukes would you say that unless you were being nuked and trying to get a townie to waste theirs like Caller did? Lol.
Oh, and I'm assuming D3 is mafia for Saving you LMNOP.
1) Not correct. 2) L for one, considering at the start of the day, a lot of people were interested in lynching him because of his effect on past games when I said that his past games should have no bearing on the outcome of this, so it's a faulty reason for lynch. I specifically say
I do think that L's pro-town and these nukes toward him are out of spite rather than for scum tells; I'd like to see L saved
When Nikon and Xelin launch nukes at Zona, I say that this was a bullshit move.
So I come back, and I see that Nikon nukes Zona. What the fuck? All I see for the reasoning behind this is one little disagreement, which isn’t a disagreement at all as they’re two separate things.
Oh just refreshed the page and I see that Nikon says the nuke is fake. First off, what the fuck? There were many people obviously against the nuke and on top of that, there’s quite a decent time frame for an antinuke to get fired. So potentially, you just wasted an anti-nuke. How can you even assume that the nuke *hasn’t* been shot down already?
Nuke on Zona initiated by Xelin Going to say that this is retarded as hell
Oh look, two people who you seem to value so highly.
3. If you had anti-nukes for town use, wouldn't you save nemy or Zona the second time he had a nuke launched at him? Lol.
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On April 09 2010 23:34 ~OpZ~ wrote: My nuke on Iaaan is fake btw.
But Haster seems to have noticed what I did perfectly. Abenson could very well have done without saying I told him to nuke when the day began, but there you go. He said that, preventing the lynch of citizen.
No. I didn't antinuke to stop citizen from getting lynched. Abenson nuked to PREVENT citizen from getting lynched.
This is faulty right here for one good reason: No town member would throw a vote out in a lylo situation if they weren't completely sure of who they were voting for.
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