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We heard a lot of talking about the 1v1 changes, Archon mode, automated tournaments and allied commanders. But we did not hear a single word about the Arcade status.
The Arcade (Previously known as Custom Games in Warcraft III / StarCraft BW) was and will always remain a very important part of the game. It spawned the "Fastest Possible" maps in BW which we had tons of fun in, Warcraft III custom games spawned DotA, which became a complete new gaming environment in itself(MOBA). If you get tired from the competitive ladder, you can take a break and have tons of fun in playing arcade maps. After all, this why you play a video game in the first place, to have fun!
The issues with the Arcade system in StarCraft II are many. They start with the too powerful editor and ends with the review system.
The map editor is hard to get into if you are not determined to learn it. This has been discussed numerous times already. Lets talk about the in game system.
The review system serves no purpose other than making maps more similar to apps on the Google Play or Apple's App Store. It is great in those 2 systems because the user wants to get the best apps to do a specific task for him. But that servers no purpose in the Arcade system, in fact, it does more harm than actually being useful. The reason for that is as follows:
A new player sees a certain map, he likes the title and the image of the map, he goes to read the reviews made by people played the map before him, he finds some negative reviews on it and some lower rating. This player gets discouraged to play this map and search for another while it could possible be a good map for this player and he make like it.
Maps after all are mini games. Some people like certain games, some people don't. Giving a review system for all really servers no reason as it is about the user's taste not about the effectively this map is to do a certain task (Like a web browser in App store for example).
This can happen in the other way, some maps are over rated and played more than other maps because of the top played system. You yourself may not like that map, but other maps you may like will be hidden deep because of this system.
Previously in BNET 1.0, when everything was mixed up, those did not make an issue, as you will have 0 information about the map before you try it out. You enter the lobby, play with those people and then make up an opinion about this map whether you like it or not.
I really hope this gets looked into, after all, arcade servers the entry point for players that play the game in starter edition since 1v1, campaign and other mods are locked and only arcade is free to play. Especially now that the arcade will have competition from Dota's custom game that is currently under development.
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I know this is considered a shameless bump... But no one cares about arcade at all? Like literally no one?
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My problem is that the information in the reviews could be misleading if they're biased or dated, and no one can really make a reply towards it due to how it's set up. Blizzard has a forum dedicated to arcade games, not sure why this system is even in place.
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The Arcade isnt as bad as many people make it. However, there are two big problems:
1. The popularity system. It is had because it introduces a snowball effect, meaning maps that are very popular will naturally get played more because they are, by default, at the top of all lists and showcased when entering the Arcade for the first time.
This makes it very hard for new maps to get recognized and played, which frustrates a lot of modders because they feel like their time is wasted. While there is an open games list, most people prefer looking at the featured pages to find quality games.
Blizzard has the goal of showcasing quality games, which is fine, but this should be done by rating rather than by popularity. Rating is fine because unlike popularity it does NOT cause snowball effects (A well rated map can still receive bad ratings and drop down)
2. The rating system itself is fine, however, it is bad that by default ratings get sorted by "most helpful" instead of "newest". Again this causes a snowball effect because the replies at the top of the list will get more helpfuls than ratings further down. This makes it so that new ratings dont get read, which means that:
a) Changes to a map over time are not represented at all by the rating system, because only the oldest ratings stay at the top of the list.
b) If a map receives a bad initial rating, there is pretty much no way for the modder to get rid of this image, even if he polishes and fixes the map, because the old reviews stay on top of the list.
About the editor:
The argument of it being "too powerful" is absolute nonsense. Its great that it is that powerful and makes so many things possible, however, naturally more power brings greater complexity and a harder learning curve.
However, instead of removing functionality of the editor the accessiblity needs to be improved, for example by adding seperate views (UI) for beginners, which only displays the most basic stuff. Besides of that, Blizzard should try to create a proper modding community and a place where they can share information. SC2Mapster, the main site of modders, is in a pretty bad state as Curse does no longer support anything and besides that there is pretty much no place to properly share information or talk about projects.
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They just made it similar to an app store. You search for an app, you use the app, you give review on the app and rate it. How does that work on maps when they are completely different thing?
Same goes for the most played system. You get to see only the 2 maps most of the time, Desert Strike and Squadron TD. Other maps will be hit with this system and be hidden deeply so no one can play then.
It is really scary that we literally heard nothing on the Arcade during this whole beta. Especially that it is the only mod available in the Starter Edition, the edition that is made for people to try out the game, those who can give quite boost in the community.
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One more thing I want to say, it is not a big deal at all, but in the arcade lobby, why do we say the ladder rank? It gives strange feeling, when you are not a ladder player but someone plays the arcade with you and it says that he master or something. Why can't we show nothing but the name while in arcade lobby?
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On August 16 2015 04:28 WrathSCII wrote:
One more thing I want to say, it is not a big deal at all, but in the arcade lobby, why do we say the ladder rank? It gives strange feeling, when you are not a ladder player but someone plays the arcade with you and it says that he master or something. Why can't we show nothing but the name while in arcade lobby?
because people like their rank to be visible when they've earned a league border?
i dont care about league ranking personally, but if someone earned a border and they care about that they should get to show it. the better question is why would it bother you to see? being master in 1v1 doesnt mean youre good at an arcade game anyway, its just a decoration...
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On August 16 2015 04:29 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2015 04:28 WrathSCII wrote:
One more thing I want to say, it is not a big deal at all, but in the arcade lobby, why do we say the ladder rank? It gives strange feeling, when you are not a ladder player but someone plays the arcade with you and it says that he master or something. Why can't we show nothing but the name while in arcade lobby? because people like their rank to be visible when they've earned a league border? i dont care about league ranking personally, but if someone earned a border and they care about that they should get to show it. the better question is why would it bother you to see? being master in 1v1 doesnt mean youre good at an arcade game anyway, its just a decoration...
It does bother in a small way, for example, Arcade is mostly used by people who don't ladder and starter edition players, so it will be kinda strange. I know it doesn't mean that you are a master in 1v1 then you can be good at a certain arcade map. Just talking in general, that is why I said it is not a big deal thing, beside I was talking about arcade only, he can show it off everywhere else.
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I as well hope Blizzards works on the arcade. Being able to name your lobby could be a start  . This would make the open games section feel more alive and maybe more inviting.
Maybe the default arcade screen should be 'new and top rated'. That would give new maps more of a chance. Having videos in the description would also be very nice. Maybe the arcade could be more advertised on the start screen as well.
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Your comparison with the app store does not really work - because their are not only functional items on an app store, but also games which are also reviewed. So your comparison makes no sense.
I do agree that Blizzard at least should give a reaction on people who have voiced that the arcade system does not really work. I don't use it myself, so I have no opinion about it myself
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On August 16 2015 03:55 WrathSCII wrote:
I know this is considered a shameless bump... But no one cares about arcade at all? Like literally no one?
Yeah, it's sad. I've stopped playing melee 3 months after WoL release, so thousands of hours spent in SC for me is arcade only.
Arcade is lousy, blizz embraced modernization at the cost of losing something really beautiful. It didn't have to be this way, we could have both, but blizzard exists in echo-chamber, whatever they do is good, whatever is disapproved is disapproved by whiny vocal minority and is not a priority. At least that's the impression I've got over five years of caring about customs.
Reviews can be helpful. They can contain tips for players or feedback/bug reports for developer. You can sometimes go read reviews and figure out whether it's something you'd like to try or not. Unfortunately reviews can also bring out utter lack of intelligence in reviewers, which is a sad sight. Half of reviews on b-net might as well be "hi, I'm 11 and I think taking my feces and throwing them around is great fun, so let this review document my existence for I have nothing of value to contribute. Poop.". Sometimes it's just heartbreaking to see "Today I ate a sandwich" topping as most helpful actual helpful and insightful reviews for the n-th time.
There are good points and bad points to existing systems. There are ways to make things better. But suggestions were made dozens of times. There is a limit to how many times you can spend 3-5 hours making a thought-out and well written suggestions only to realize that nobody cares. And then you see others make similar statements, and their efforts too are met with utter lack of interest. And then there are also trolls who say that arcade is not important lol.
I'm sure people care, but we've been at this for so long that everything has been said, repeated, re-repeated dozens of times. Those who care probably just don't want to talk about it anymore. Saying the same thing all the time is no fun after all.
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I'd very much like to see arcade addressed in a feedback update.
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I don't think the people writing the feedback updates are the same people that are working on UI/Arcade improvements, I think those are different teams and you should not expect any in-depth information about arcade coming from the feedback updates.
maybe some other update might tell us about arcade plans but at the very least there will probably be some mention of the subject at blizzcon.
I might be wrong though.
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On August 16 2015 09:28 Roblin wrote:
I don't think the people writing the feedback updates are the same people that are working on UI/Arcade improvements, I think those are different teams and you should not expect any in-depth information about arcade coming from the feedback updates.
maybe some other update might tell us about arcade plans but at the very least there will probably be some mention of the subject at blizzcon.
I might be wrong though.
That's a good point. However, have they not addressed things like the chat system in the feedback updates? Am I misremembering? Either way, I hope we get some word on the arcade system somehow.
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On August 16 2015 09:28 Roblin wrote:
I don't think the people writing the feedback updates are the same people that are working on UI/Arcade improvements, I think those are different teams and you should not expect any in-depth information about arcade coming from the feedback updates.
maybe some other update might tell us about arcade plans but at the very least there will probably be some mention of the subject at blizzcon.
I might be wrong though.
I understand that DK is not working on the arcade and there are other people on that. But it is kinda sad that like every single aspect of LOTV has been discussed including the campaign and only the Arcade was left in the dark...
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Arcade isn't changing, because there's nothing to change as far as blizzard is concerned.
If you search people have complained about arcade since the beginning but nothing changes. So what we have is probably what's going to stay.
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How could I forget ladders for custom games? VERY important! And do not play the fragmentation card. If sc2 is good enough there will allways be enough people playing it, while also attracting players who are interested in other game modes.
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EPT
