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On December 31 2011 04:33 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 03:03 Falco252 wrote:
Well, you can be lucid but letting the dream play itself, it's kinda the same thing isn't it? Actually Lucid Dreaming is controlling the dream as it happens, not watching it move along disinterestedly. I usually dream like that, unfortunately. I have had *maybe* one or two lucid dreaming experiences, though they were short and I don't remember what happened in them. I'm pretty young still though, so I'll probably have more....... I hope.
As far as I read and know, there is 2 distinct things, Lucid Dreaming and Dream Controlling, first is ONLY knowing that you're in a dream, and dream controlling in doing actions that you choose..
And you can Dream Control without having a lucid dream(usually it's just common things like walking etc), or having a lucid dream without dream controlling (= letting the dream go by itself)
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Hello all,
I do have lucid Dreams quite often, but it is very hard to control them, like sometimes i even stuck in wall when i try to go trough it, i can fly for limited time and so on, and i can't change place where i'm, the only mastered thing what can i do is get anything i want, hmm, but that doesn't help a lot, and i noticed, that when you want to do something crazy like fly or go trough wall ( i call it crazy because you won't be able to do it in real life ) you have to 100 % believe that you will do it, otherwise you fail
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I've been trying to Lucid Dream for a bit, and it's pretty hard. I had two amazing experiences so far, where I was fully lucid...at least I think. It's hard to tell if you're awake in your dream or if you are dreaming about lucid dreaming. Either way I think the result is the same. I did what people mostly do. Fly through my neighborhood, talk to people I normally wouldn't, ect. It's cool as hell. I wish I could Lucid Dream all the time, which is what I'm trying to do. So far, I can only control what I dream about but I have to focus a lot before going to sleep which is not something I always want to do.
Workinonit anyways.
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Well, I'd say, as every thing in the world, practice makes perfect, you'll eventually get better, and you'll be able to do it faster,and easilier I guess 
As far as I concerned, for the "stay interessed in lucid dreaming" is easier thanks to this thread"
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On December 31 2011 05:22 Falco252 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 04:33 Fencer710 wrote:On December 31 2011 03:03 Falco252 wrote:
Well, you can be lucid but letting the dream play itself, it's kinda the same thing isn't it? Actually Lucid Dreaming is controlling the dream as it happens, not watching it move along disinterestedly. I usually dream like that, unfortunately. I have had *maybe* one or two lucid dreaming experiences, though they were short and I don't remember what happened in them. I'm pretty young still though, so I'll probably have more....... I hope. As far as I read and know, there is 2 distinct things, Lucid Dreaming and Dream Controlling, first is ONLY knowing that you're in a dream, and dream controlling in doing actions that you choose.. And you can Dream Control without having a lucid dream(usually it's just common things like walking etc), or having a lucid dream without dream controlling (= letting the dream go by itself)
So technically I've been having lucid dreams all this time? Wow, that's a new perspective.
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I used to have more lucid dreams when I was younger, to the point where I almost felt like I could pick and choose what I dreamt about. Nowadays, it rarely happens. I always look forward to dreaming (as silly as that sounds), in hope that I will be aware in the dream, however it rarely occurs for me anymore.
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Yeah, youth is somehow the best period to train and learn lucidity :p
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Man had a dream last night i was with this girl i really really like. Everything was going amazing.
then i woke up.
fml
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On December 27 2011 20:13 TheToaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 01:47 carwashguy wrote:On December 18 2011 19:54 TheToaster wrote:
The theory that a lot of neurologists have been moving towards is that ACTUAL lucid dreaming occurs extremely rarely. What they mean by that is people often recall lucid dreams under statistical studies where they were being observed. But in reality, brain activity suggested that these people weren't fully immersed into the REM sleep cycle, and therefore only "half asleep" or "half dreaming" where the influence of reality might still somewhat exist.
Other times evidence suggested the dreamer was actively going through REM sleep, hinting at the possibility for lucid dreaming. But soon after becoming lucid, the dreamer would fully wake up. This basically suggests that lucid dreaming only seems to manifest itself when the brain is either about to become active or already partly has.
Remember that time scales within a dream can be heavily distorted when compared to reality. An entire lucid dream might only occur during the 20-30 minutes before you wake up. So lucid dreaming might just be a sleep cycle, such as waking up, that is taking a "detour" of sorts. Which neurologists? Do you have any literature concerning these beliefs? I ask because I've never read about this whole "lucid dreams and weren't fully immersed into REM" business. But then you go on to say "Other times evidence suggested the dreamer was actively going through REM sleep." What does that mean? That the other lucid dreamers weren't really in REM sleep some how? Waking up soon after becoming lucid is a problem that occurs very frequently with beginners. It's happened to me a lot. I've improved on it by staying calm (the adrenaline rush from becoming "aware" can bolt you awake). I've also found it useful to focus on the five senses (look around at the details, listen for sounds, feel a wall, etc) and become fully immersed into the dream. When you say "suggests that lucid dreaming only seems to manifest itself when the brain is either about to become active or already partly has," this is very vague. In a broad sense, the brain is active during any dream. However, lucid dreaming might indicate dorsolateral prefrontal cortex activation. In his book The Dream Drugstore (2001-pg 97) Allan Hobson proposed that lucid dreaming is the result of DLPFC activation during REM sleep, and that working memory resides in the DLPFC which is deactivated during sleep and results in the bizarreness and mute executive functions associated with dreams. As for your last paragraph, there's no scientific evidence that time dilation actually occurs in dreaming. In fact, there's only evidence of the contrary. Dr. Stephen Laberge did an experiment where lucid dreamers counted down to ten and then did an eye signal (you can control physical eye movement while lucid dreaming). The length of time this required in waking life corresponded with dream time. I'm not about to produce some massive citation list just to prove what I said. That's the difference between an online forum and a college paper. I get a degree for writing college papers, but I get nothing from convincing strangers on a forum. Even so, what I said was mainly recollection of what my friend told me and things I scanned over on the internet. So anything I said shouldn't even be taken literally. I tend to have a certain authoritative tone in everything that I write, and that's probably what caused you to flip out. Just take what I said for what it's worth, which isn't much.
Sorry if I came off as critical. Really, I only asked because I'm interested in this stuff and genuinely want to read more about what you're talking about. You were referencing studies that I'm not yet familiar with, and I'd very much like to read up on them. I wasn't flipping out. Honest.
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I had one strange series of months in my younger teens where I dreamed the same dream over and over again...always AFTER I woke up to pee and trying to sleep again. If I closed my eyes - I dreamt the nightmare which is indescribable and wanted to wake up from it and I always did. Then I could "reset" the dream again by trying to sleep and then waking up, again...
I never dared to stay in the dream, was really terrible ._. It's silly when I'm thinking about it now, but I was really afraid of getting to bed and experience same nightmare again.
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I started reading about lucid dreaming a while back, and now I remember all my dreams in the morning, and it's really wierd :s I think I've had 3-4 lucid dreams the last month after reading alot about it and trying some of the things, like asking yourself if you are dreaming and checking for signs, even when you are awake, so you do this in the dream and realize its a dream.
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Word of caution guys. I remember reading someone's post saying after awhile he got really good and could control his dreams so well that he lost interest in reality and had to see a psychiatrist. you'd laugh about it, think of it as comparable to alcoholics who always drink in order to get away from reality. a similar thing could happen.
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On December 31 2011 16:06 dongmydrum wrote:
Word of caution guys. I remember reading someone's post saying after awhile he got really good and could control his dreams so well that he lost interest in reality and had to see a psychiatrist. you'd laugh about it, think of it as comparable to alcoholics who always drink in order to get away from reality. a similar thing could happen.
That sounds like some Inception shit man. Scary
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On December 31 2011 16:06 dongmydrum wrote:
Word of caution guys. I remember reading someone's post saying after awhile he got really good and could control his dreams so well that he lost interest in reality and had to see a psychiatrist. you'd laugh about it, think of it as comparable to alcoholics who always drink in order to get away from reality. a similar thing could happen.
True that it can happen, but I have only come across 2 situations of this, and in one of them it wasn't necessary with a psychiatrist either.
Reaching that high of a skill almost exclusively requires dedication which as well almost always requires a strong mind.
In other words; it is extremely rare for someone to become good enough without having a strong enough mind along with it.
Also it should be noted lucid dreaming got varying degrees of lucidity, a high level of lucidity has only been observed in people that has practiced dream control and become rather good at it.
On December 30 2011 23:44 B.I.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 22:46 Chargelot wrote:On December 30 2011 22:41 B.I.G. wrote:
lucid dreaming is bad stuff people. lucid dreaming leads to sleep paralysis, sleep paralysis leads to hallucinations. Trust me, you dont want to wake up in the middle of the night being trapped in your own body and hallucinating people coming in and attack you. Dreams are hallucination. You become paralyzed every time you sleep. Sleep paralysis is scary, but it ain't that different than regular sleep. Biologically, there isn't an actual problem here. Don't say it like you can start hallucinating all the time. It's basically just a dream that occurs when you're awake, and still under the effects of REM sleep. ok very nice explanation and theoretically you are right, but I have a friend who had these lucid dreams for a while, and after that the sleep paralysis and hallucinations started. It fucked him up really bad. Im just warning people that its something to watch out for. edit: where did i claim that you control your own hallucinations? the reason i wrote this is because you don't.
Upon further research he probably experianced hypnagogic hallucination, which really isn't a problem, I am just mediocre in the art, but despite that even I have gotten past being afraid of sleep paralysis and the mentioned type of hallucinations that can accompany sleep paralysis.
I would say that is similar to trying to e.g. go snowboarding and having a really bad fall and then be afraid of snowboarding.
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Ok guys, soooo, I have a bit of a trouble, I can remember at least one dream per night, but, it's mostly the last one, and let's say, it's the only one I can write.
Because, I just can't write my dreams in the night, first I need to turn on the lights, and I'll wake up everyone by doing so, buuuuut, I guess I can write blindly a few keywords but :
-I'm not sure I'll be able to read myself...
-Is it enough to be able to at least remember a bit of the dream, or even the whole, or will I totally forgot everything?
And then, are there some pen findable somewhere who does a little(but very little, like a led or something) light while writing, I guess it'll help me read myself.
Anyway, I'll try tonight to see what can I do, if it's really possible or not
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On December 31 2011 05:00 NTTemplar wrote:
It might be me mixing up in translation, but lucid dreaming requires more than being aware that you are dreaming. Lucid dreaming is a skill, and how good you are is determined by your ability to control and manipulate your dreams.
You are still, in starcraft terms, a bronze-gold if you can't become lucid every night (exceptions are ofc allowed if something weird happened that day).
But if you for 2 straight weeks have normal days and you become lucid every night, then you have actually become a lucid dreamer (if you are not able to do this you either 1. didn't lucid dream or 2. are a complete beginner), from there you really start experiancing and learning how to lucid dream which mainly exist of two components: 1. Making something happen the way you want and 2. staying in control and asleep while making something happen.
The biggest issue most people face in the lesser skilled phases of lucid dreaming is point 2 usually; Actually staying asleep and in control when trying to make things happen.
I personally disagree with this. I am what most people would consider a very experienced dreamer, meaning I can recall about 99% of my dreams and become lucid at will around 70% of the times I specifically attempt it. In my lucid dreams, I have 100% complete control, and have pretty much eliminated the problem of myself waking up during the moment at which lucidity is gained.
It is much more difficult to truly become lucid at will than you think. Even the most experienced people that I've spoken to, including someone who has been experimenting with lucid dreaming for 30 years, cannot become lucid 100% of the time. Remember, you're essentially tricking your subconscious and entering a state of fantasy, which your brain physiologically believes is real. Research has shown that the neurological responses to dreaming are almost identical to the responses measured during real consciousness - this comes from a study where they had people do certain activities during lucid dreams (playing sports, doing mathematics, having sex, other stuff) and measured their brainwaves with EEG's. Then, they compared those results to data taken when the same people did the same things fully conscious, and the results were almost 99% correlated, IIRC.
I think bronze-gold league correlates to the first stages of dream exploration - improving your dream recall and identifying your personal dreamsigns. Plat-diamond is beginning to become lucid due to your own efforts, probably 20-60% of the time. Master league is 70-90% on your lucidity attempts (not counting when you wake up as soon as you gain lucidity), GM is 95%+.
First of, as mentioned, it isn't lucid dreaming if you are not in control (again I might mix words in translation here).
2ndly sleep paralysis is something everyone have every night, just that people normally don't wake up while in that state.
And I wonder why you use the term hallucinations instead of dreams.
If you actually mean hallucinations and not dreams then that has nothing to do with lucid dreams and it might very well not have been sleep paralysis he experianced as well.
If you experiance sleep paralysis, you are awake, thus not dreaming which means you are just laying in the bed in your room unable to move your body (assuming you slept in your bed.. and you haven't been sleep walking, and no-one moved you.. for those that want to argue silly things)
This is actually not true. You can become completely lucid and conscious of your dream, and completely unable to control its direction. This is not a sign of inexperience, but of improvement towards the final goal of complete dream control.
You are correct in saying sleep paralysis happens to everyone, every night. If you aren't familiar with the stages of sleep, pretty much all dreaming happens during REM sleep, where your brain is burning almost as much fuel as it does during normal awake time. It's hypothesized that sleep paralysis happens to prevent you from acting out your dreams, since studies like the one I mentioned above are finding more and more evidence that from the perspective of your brain, an action in a dream and an action in real life are interpreted almost exactly the same way.
But the phenomena of retaining consciousness while your body and mind enter the state of paralysis is very rare, and that is what most people consider "sleep paralysis". This happens to oneironauts (people who explore the dream state) because a popular method to induce lucid dreaming is keeping your mind active during the time where your body is beginning to enter the sleep state. There are a lot of things that people have reported experiencing during conscious sleep paralysis, like hallucinations, a feeling of another presence in the room, formication (not fornication), screaming or other loud sounds, trouble breathing etc etc... In fact, dream scientists hypothesize that the hypnagogic (pre-sleep) paralysis could be an explanation for people who report alien visitations and even abductions.
I have never experienced conscious hypnagogic paralysis, which I am thankful for, since reading about it makes it seem like an incredibly scary experience.
Someone who are exceptionally good at lucid dreaming will have the dream look identical to our own world, literally look so real you can't tell them apart with your eyes (luckily plenty other methods). And in this world will be able to make whatever fantasy he got real.
If that is fucking a hollywood star, flying superman style, revisit that tropical place you once had a vacation at and the list goes on as far as your imagination.
He will experiance that just as real as if he actually did it in reality.
I can vouch for this. Especially considering the scientific research that I've mentioned - to quote the matrix "Your brain makes it real." And yes, fucking hollywood stars happens a lot, I think that's probably the first thing that a lot of people try once they attain dream control - it was the first thing I tried.  It also is one of the hardest things to do while maintaining lucidity. IIRC, earlier in this thread there was a post about a famous piece of classical music that was originally written in a dreaming state but was remembered upon waking up.
On January 03 2012 01:52 Falco252 wrote:Ok guys, soooo, I have a bit of a trouble, I can remember at least one dream per night, but, it's mostly the last one, and let's say, it's the only one I can write. Because, I just can't write my dreams in the night, first I need to turn on the lights, and I'll wake up everyone by doing so, buuuuut, I guess I can write blindly a few keywords but : -I'm not sure I'll be able to read myself... -Is it enough to be able to at least remember a bit of the dream, or even the whole, or will I totally forgot everything? And then, are there some pen findable somewhere who does a little(but very little, like a led or something) light while writing, I guess it'll help me read myself. Anyway, I'll try tonight to see what can I do, if it's really possible or not
You're on the right path though! Improving your dream recall is one of the most important things to work on. GLHFGG!
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I find everytime i have a nap without an alarm or anything to wake me up, ill have these dreams everytime, i find i have some sorta sleep paralysis aswell were i feel that im awake but i cant move my body or anything to make myself awake. Usually when this happens i have dreams also that i can control usually that occour in the room that im in. I find i feel like i wake up about 5 times but im never truely awake. Its kinda cool but it can actaully be kinda annoying and i feel closterphobic because i cant move and im just stuck on the couch. Really weird but also really cool.
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Just out of curiosity, how does this affect your sleep? What I mean will I feel as refreshed and recovered if I lucid dream compared to if I don't? I think it shouldn't affect me that much considering the length of dreams, which doesn't seem to be too long?
This is all assuming I can lucid dream consistently, which I can't yet. But still, just something that would be cool to know.:D
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On January 06 2012 03:32 Tenox wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how does this affect your sleep? What I mean will I feel as refreshed and recovered if I lucid dream compared to if I don't? I think it shouldn't affect me that much considering the length of dreams, which doesn't seem to be too long?
This is all assuming I can lucid dream consistently, which I can't yet. But still, just something that would be cool to know.:D
It shouldn't affect your sleep at all. No matter whether you are lucid or not during REM sleep, your brain is using up almost as much energy as it does when you are awake.
So if you lucid dream, you should wake up just as recovered as normal, and sometimes more so depending on what you were doing. *wink*
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I had a lucid dream that I could control about a week ago. Whenever I realize I have control over a dream (which is rarely) I have the immediate desire to make a girl appear and try to have sex with her (yeah.. it's been awhile irl..). Unfortunately I usually wake up before anything really happens, which is probably because I am untrained and am trying to control the dream too much. Forever ever alone even in my dreams!
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EPT
