I don't give a fuck how much first hand knowledge you have of the situation. That doesn't give you the green light to act like a pompous ass and be condescending to everyone else in the thread.
Manner up or more bans will be handed out.
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22243 Posts
I don't give a fuck how much first hand knowledge you have of the situation. That doesn't give you the green light to act like a pompous ass and be condescending to everyone else in the thread. Manner up or more bans will be handed out. | ||
madsweepslol
161 Posts
On March 25 2010 07:20 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote: With ongoing support from the U.S. and continued determination from President Calderon I don't see the cartels surviving much longer. The fact that the American drug market is worth hundreds of billions of dollars annually would indicate otherwise. That's just too much incentive, especially in a country as poor as Mexico. On March 25 2010 20:39 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: i don't know it, do you have some source, references, or proof in general for me to look at? While I agree with one of the previous posters that not all generals or officials are corrupt, the problem is a very, very serious one. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/04/mexican-general.html http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5026787.ece http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/world/americas/02mexico.html?_r=1&ref=americas http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26435119/the_making_of_a_narco_state/print http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/15/mexico.violence/ On March 27 2010 01:51 Boblion wrote: And drugs don't ? They do, but it's easier to deal with those problems if the drugs themselves aren't a criminal issue. On March 27 2010 02:47 On_Slaught wrote: Those are some pretty hefty claims to be making without a single shred of evidence that goes to your assumption that there is some malicious intent behind all of this. Well, whether pharmaceuticals are against legalization because they want less competition may be debatable, but the fact is they are against legalization. The only question is why. And along with pharmaceuticals, the alcohol and tobacco industries are also anti-legalization. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/pdfa1.htm | ||
MR71N1
Australia9 Posts
- drug traffic violence fucks up peoples lives - drugs fuck up peoples lives i figure if pharmacutical companies can produce drugs, cut with harmless stuff, have a prescribed dose with full warnings/education and even possibly decrease side effects by changing chemical formations (i got no idea), this could have more benefits than negatives. however i cbf trying to list them so my discussion ends here. | ||
Manit0u
Poland17145 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On March 28 2010 17:17 Manit0u wrote: Mexico should just let in US special forces deal with the most known cartels since their own army can't. I think that such drastic action could really shake them and show them that they're not untouchable. Hell, the LAPD could do a better job, and would probably be less corrupt. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On March 28 2010 13:29 MR71N1 wrote: theres obviously two sides to it - drug traffic violence fucks up peoples lives - drugs fuck up peoples lives With drug prohibition, you have both. With drug legalization, there is only the latter. It may be a bigger effect without prohibition, but there is also the positive benefit of it being out in the open for people to confront and it being out in the open to serve as a warning to other people that might be tempted by drugs. On March 28 2010 13:29 MR71N1 wrote: i figure if pharmaceutical companies can produce drugs, cut with harmless stuff, have a prescribed dose with full warnings/education and even possibly decrease side effects by changing chemical formations (i got no idea), this could have more benefits than negatives. however i cbf trying to list them so my discussion ends here. Having pharmaceuticals do it legally is the merely legalization while giving pharmaceuticals a monopoly. The only reason drugs have no quality standards is because it's illegal. Also giving the FDA control over recreational drug approval would still be a political mess. | ||
maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
I think it is just a few years until California legalizes marijuana: (1.4B in direct revenue from it, plus indirect savings) The pro-marijuana faction should author a bill that splits the tax proceeds between education and police. ;p http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/26pot.html Also, I think Louder has a solid foundation to his posts; he just might be a little too heated with his polemic. Basically, if a country adopts a prison system that is run by a corporation and that corporation makes more money the more people you imprison, then it is in the corporation's (and the tens of thousands of people it employs) best interest to continue with the current situation. Human beings look out for their own interests, so why do we keep setting up conflicts between individual and societal interests? Anyway, I realize this thread is supposed to be about Mexico--not legalization and certainly not legalization in the US--but they are related topics. | ||
Rev0lution
United States1805 Posts
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gyth
657 Posts
Human beings look out for their own interests, so why do we keep setting up conflicts between individual and societal interests? Where there is tension, there is profit. | ||
baal
10486 Posts
On March 26 2010 15:35 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote: @Baal Alright, well first off just because you have a ton of posts doesn't mean those posts aren't full of shit. Also I don't quite understand how saying "that it's an insult to the people who have died" ties in to a redneck argument about the war in Iraq when I was referring to those who say that the destruction of the twin towers was an inside job by the U.S. government (please read the post). Also I don't deny that there is corruption within Mexico but there are measures being taken against it like never before seen( http://www.javno.com/en-world/mexico-drug-war-hindered-by-deep-police-corruption/207696). Every week there's a news report on some corrupt cop or cartel leader that gets thrown in the can and that's a FACT. President Calderon also initiated a program to inject trained "spies" to detect corruption within the Mexican police which has been extremely effective. "So let me open your eyes here, anyone who believes the government is in a real war against the cartels is a naive child with no idea of what he is talking about." Ok apart from this extremely offensive and not true, this statement is what gave me the vibe that you didn't think anything could be done because it's the public Vs. the government. Also could you elaborate on PAN and the cartels on the pacific. Alright you told me I failed to have a grasp on reality yet you said that the situation is going to be fixed by Mexican society being aware and angry at the cartels. Oh that's great, let's just all be angry at the cartels I'm sure that's gonna make them feel bad about themselves and have them stop when they're making over 300 billion a year. Why don't you go tell Americans that the best way to defeat terrorism is to be angry at the terrorists, I'm sure they'll receive you with arms wide open. The only way to defeat this is with Calderon's current strategy and sure it's gonna be hard to defeat 70 years of PRI. (oh and if our government is really that corrupt do you think PAN would have ever been elected in the first place??? Let me help you out, NO!) Also I sense quite a bit of hate from you towards the world, you're scolding the Scandinavian for asking questions and you're calling the Americans dumb. I don't know about the rest of team liquid but I don't think that 's ok and also people wanting sources is not a bad thing and is not a sign of ignorance. It's a sign of wisdom, analytical mind and a good sense of logic. i am going to make a long post and i hope people read it so they stop being so ignorant about what they are dealing with. Are u mexican or something? cuz if you are i dont freaking get how on earth you can even misspell your nickname in spanish. You are clueless about how the word works in general judging from how you post and you dont even being to understand what i just posted. ( i say this because you think i ever implied that americans should be angry at terrorists ROFL ). Calderon is a corrupt fuck who flooded an entire state for his own profits, do you want me to go into detail? ok ill briefly explain what happened so u and the rest of the forum knows what kind of president we have. CFE is the government monopoly of energy, Felipe Calderon (our current president) was secretary of energy (managed CFE) before being president, he was accused many times of traffic of influences to give contracts to family members and he also owned a big portion of the private energy sector. So here it gets interesting Calderon owns a big chunk of the private energy sector which supplies the energy the government cant (around 31%) (cuz CFE its inefficient as fuck obv) so basically, Calderon makes more money the less energy CFE produces. So CFE energy production drops suddenly 35% (lol wat) and the biggest dam in Tabasco (peñitas dam) drops 66% !!! wtf. Rain season started and the Dam was still producing very little, meaning it was getting full very quickly, when it reached 80% of its capacity, the engeneers sent many warnings to CFE but obviously Calderon and friends couldnt hear over the sound of the constant "caching" they were making with the private energy sector. Well the dam reached its critical point and was about to break, so CFE decides to open the gates in an emergency, releasing 2,000,000 liters per seconds into the rivers.... so what happens???: this happens. An entire freaking state is buried under 2 meters of water with losses in the billions.... And this is where it gets id ont know if "hilarious", the president is interviewed and you want to guess what he said? lol he said [textually quoting him here] The high tide was provoked by the moon attraction, made that the water of the rivers couldn't mmm... reach the seas Yeah, thats the white knight who will save us lol | ||
baal
10486 Posts
its in spanish so sorry: He says: i energetically reject this, and i repudiate this barbarism and i demand the most exhaustive investigation of this inadmissible acts and that they are punished, i dont care if he is a governor and i dont care if the other is a powerful bussiness man. well long story short, he is still governor... the rich pedophile bussinessman is still free, there was no trial or jail time, the president is seen with the corrupt governor many times after that video | ||
baal
10486 Posts
The governor first speaking in the phone with the corrupt busssinesman (Kamel Nacif) pretty much arranging sending a journalist to jail for writing a book about Kamel's pedophilia. Then later Kamel Nacif speaking to his lawyer(after the whole thing blew up in the media) and some parts of the conversation should send chills down your spine: Nacif: what a big problem lawyer: the writer right? Nacif: she can go fuck herself lawyer: its in all the news, that the cops didnt give her (journalist) any water, and held her for 30 hours Nacif: fuck her, pretty problem, i dont give a fuck Lawyer: hahaha (nervous laughter) Nacif: so what? so what? nothing is going to happen Lawyer: Well but nobody has dared before to do something like that. Nacif: Well you need some money right (meaning BIG money for bribes and shit) Lawyer: well yeah, if you can. Nacif, yes i can... when do you want it? Lawyer: whenever you want Nacif: ok, i think on saturday. heres the video: (spanish again sry) So please, pleeeeease dont come argue dumb things like the government is clean and in a true war with the cartels, the government are in the cartels and this wont stop because they are banking and banking hard. The problem now is that is getting out of hand, its too violent and its too "in your face" so the government is going to try to make more subtle like before, maybe by destroying one of the rival cartels or by making big deals and concessions to stop so much violence. | ||
FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
I think its a start, but I find it terribly amusing that the people preaching about the utopia of legalized drugs are the same ones who rant about the giant corporations who control everything. Guess who is going to control the drug trade, newbs? | ||
FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
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baal
10486 Posts
On March 29 2010 18:19 FieryBalrog wrote: So legalizing drugs like marijuana is going to be the solution, just like the legality of pharmaceuticals has solved our issues there, right? Or tobacco? I think its a start, but I find it terribly amusing that the people preaching about the utopia of legalized drugs are the same ones who rant about the giant corporations who control everything. Guess who is going to control the drug trade, newbs? the fact that you allow the commercialization of something doesnt imply that it has to be a monopoly, if a monopoly is formed on that, the problem is the government/corporations, not the product itself. And yes, legalizing drugs would solve all the violence problems in mexico obviously but it is never ever going to happen because it is not in the interests of the government, cartels and the united states, so why would that happen? | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7702 Posts
On March 27 2010 05:34 EvilTeletubby wrote: Hey guys, I don't give a fuck how much first hand knowledge you have of the situation. That doesn't give you the green light to act like a pompous ass and be condescending to everyone else in the thread. Manner up or more bans will be handed out. I don't want to make my case worse, but asking for proof that there is corruption related to drug wars in Mexico is just like asking for proof that Kim Jong Il isn't elected democratically. I answered the way I did because it seemed to me that poster was either bad faith and trolling, or completely ignorant on the subject and being an ass. Obviously I could have quoted "The Open Veins of Latin America" from Eduardo Galeano and the chapter in which he explains the problems of drug and its relation to corruption, but nobody has the book and it would be just as stupid as quoting some high level math book to prove that 2+2 = 4 Now if that worthed a ban, I don't compain about it. | ||
JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
On March 29 2010 19:42 Biff The Understudy wrote: Show nested quote + On March 27 2010 05:34 EvilTeletubby wrote: Hey guys, I don't give a fuck how much first hand knowledge you have of the situation. That doesn't give you the green light to act like a pompous ass and be condescending to everyone else in the thread. Manner up or more bans will be handed out. I don't want to make my case worse, but asking for proof that there is corruption related to drug wars in Mexico is just like asking for proof that Kim Jong Il isn't elected democratically. I answered the way I did because it seemed to me that poster was either bad faith and trolling, or completely ignorant on the subject and being an ass. Obviously I could have quoted "The Open Veins of Latin America" from Eduardo Galeano and the chapter in which he explains the problems of drug and its relation to corruption, but nobody has the book and it would be just as stupid as quoting some high level math book to prove that 2+2 = 4 Now if that worthed a ban, I don't compain about it. jokes g | ||
baal
10486 Posts
On March 29 2010 18:23 JohnColtrane wrote: baal is there a wikipedia article for that flooding incident? amazingly there is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Tabasco_flood wow they even mention that many sources claim that it was due the misuse of the dams and the private sector selling more expensive energy. | ||
Chupacabra(UCSD)
Mexico225 Posts
On March 29 2010 17:52 baal wrote: Show nested quote + On March 26 2010 15:35 Chupacabra(UCSD) wrote: @Baal Alright, well first off just because you have a ton of posts doesn't mean those posts aren't full of shit. Also I don't quite understand how saying "that it's an insult to the people who have died" ties in to a redneck argument about the war in Iraq when I was referring to those who say that the destruction of the twin towers was an inside job by the U.S. government (please read the post). Also I don't deny that there is corruption within Mexico but there are measures being taken against it like never before seen( http://www.javno.com/en-world/mexico-drug-war-hindered-by-deep-police-corruption/207696). Every week there's a news report on some corrupt cop or cartel leader that gets thrown in the can and that's a FACT. President Calderon also initiated a program to inject trained "spies" to detect corruption within the Mexican police which has been extremely effective. "So let me open your eyes here, anyone who believes the government is in a real war against the cartels is a naive child with no idea of what he is talking about." Ok apart from this extremely offensive and not true, this statement is what gave me the vibe that you didn't think anything could be done because it's the public Vs. the government. Also could you elaborate on PAN and the cartels on the pacific. Alright you told me I failed to have a grasp on reality yet you said that the situation is going to be fixed by Mexican society being aware and angry at the cartels. Oh that's great, let's just all be angry at the cartels I'm sure that's gonna make them feel bad about themselves and have them stop when they're making over 300 billion a year. Why don't you go tell Americans that the best way to defeat terrorism is to be angry at the terrorists, I'm sure they'll receive you with arms wide open. The only way to defeat this is with Calderon's current strategy and sure it's gonna be hard to defeat 70 years of PRI. (oh and if our government is really that corrupt do you think PAN would have ever been elected in the first place??? Let me help you out, NO!) Also I sense quite a bit of hate from you towards the world, you're scolding the Scandinavian for asking questions and you're calling the Americans dumb. I don't know about the rest of team liquid but I don't think that 's ok and also people wanting sources is not a bad thing and is not a sign of ignorance. It's a sign of wisdom, analytical mind and a good sense of logic. i am going to make a long post and i hope people read it so they stop being so ignorant about what they are dealing with. Are u mexican or something? cuz if you are i dont freaking get how on earth you can even misspell your nickname in spanish. You are clueless about how the word works in general judging from how you post and you dont even being to understand what i just posted. ( i say this because you think i ever implied that americans should be angry at terrorists ROFL ). Calderon is a corrupt fuck who flooded an entire state for his own profits, do you want me to go into detail? ok ill briefly explain what happened so u and the rest of the forum knows what kind of president we have. CFE is the government monopoly of energy, Felipe Calderon (our current president) was secretary of energy (managed CFE) before being president, he was accused many times of traffic of influences to give contracts to family members and he also owned a big portion of the private energy sector. So here it gets interesting Calderon owns a big chunk of the private energy sector which supplies the energy the government cant (around 31%) (cuz CFE its inefficient as fuck obv) so basically, Calderon makes more money the less energy CFE produces. So CFE energy production drops suddenly 35% (lol wat) and the biggest dam in Tabasco (peñitas dam) drops 66% !!! wtf. Rain season started and the Dam was still producing very little, meaning it was getting full very quickly, when it reached 80% of its capacity, the engeneers sent many warnings to CFE but obviously Calderon and friends couldnt hear over the sound of the constant "caching" they were making with the private energy sector. Well the dam reached its critical point and was about to break, so CFE decides to open the gates in an emergency, releasing 2,000,000 liters per seconds into the rivers.... so what happens???: this happens. An entire freaking state is buried under 2 meters of water with losses in the billions.... And this is where it gets id ont know if "hilarious", the president is interviewed and you want to guess what he said? lol he said [textually quoting him here] Show nested quote + The high tide was provoked by the moon attraction, made that the water of the rivers couldn't mmm... reach the seas Yeah, thats the white knight who will save us lol Alright I'm gonna stop arguing with you because this is getting pretty stupid and I honestly didn't like the feeling of being banned (I'm surprised you don't considering you've been banned 8 times already). I'm just gonna address a few things that you said that I feel are unfair statements. 1-You spelled El Chupacabras wrong for your nick so how can you be Mexican?. It's actually not spelled wrong, we're in an American forum and Americans don't call it "El Chupacabras" 2-Hmmm when did I imply you thought Americans should "defeat" terrorist with anger? I was only making a comparison that was on the same level logically as your solution to the drug problem. (For the second time please go back and read the post) 3-Thinking Calderon is a "corrupt fuck" is just your opinion and you shouldn't be "ROFLing" at people who want sources especially since your thoughts on Calderon are in the clear minority in Mexico which means you SHOULD provide sources. 4- Also since you had a problem with my nick I think it's only fair that I call you out on your profile; "The depth of my knowledge goes beyond your wildest dream, its simply out of the reach of mere common people, you are nothing but wee, a soiled child standing right next to my devouring presence." Really? | ||
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