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On September 23 2017 04:18 chocorush wrote: For what it's worth, the learning curve is way less steep than Brood War. People also seem to have fun at very wide ranges of skill. Especially if you're playing online, it's probably easier to beat the average person in ranked than it is to win a D- ICCup game.
Disagree, you'll have more or less the same experience playing both games. If you're playing somebody that knows what they are doing the losses in Tekken will actually feel much worse than BW, since in BW you more or less have instant feedback and can know why you fell behind + what you could have done better. Compare that to the head scratching and frustration of not even know what to focus on and where to start once you hit a speed bump in Tekken.
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On September 23 2017 07:53 Agh wrote: If you're playing somebody that knows what they are doing the losses in Tekken will actually feel much worse than BW, since in BW you more or less have instant feedback and can know why you fell behind + what you could have done better. Compare that to the head scratching and frustration of not even know what to focus on and where to start once you hit a speed bump. I fervently disagree with this. I think feedback in fighters is much quicker simply because the games are shorter, among other things. I haven't played much SC in the past 4-5 years but one of the things that originally appealed to me about fighting games OVER starcraft was the more visceral fights (not literally but from a gameplay/competitive perspective). Short, brutal losses that you can immediately assess what you were doing wrong, what you kept getting hit by, etc. In starcraft a mistake or econ loss to harass before the 5-10 minute mark doesn't play out into an overwhelming loss until 20-30 min later. Or just "trying out" something new could go horribly wrong for reasons unrelated to the change you made. There are so many small decisions that all add up over the course of a very long game where it's easy to miss things that happened when you become overwhelmed. There are many small decisions in fighters too, but it's right there in your face. If you try abusing a move that you haven't really used before and they keep punishing you for it, you know you shouldn't do that. If you keep getting beat up by tools in a matchup you're not familiar with, you see what they're doing and can go specifically practice against it with a friend or in training mode.
Note that I'm not saying Tekken/fighters are EASIER than brood war or anything. I think it's tricky to compare the two. But the idea that you can just "get lost on how to improve" in fighters when "feedback is instant" in starcraft is way off imo.
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Prior to tekkenbot overlay for PC, you really had to way of knowing if the the move you got hit by was -13 or -15 without going to training mode, finding the move, recording it, and testing and/or researching the frame data online (still have to know the name/input to verify). You can in no way gain 'immediate' correct feedback on what is optimal in the situation. That is a huge deal, and takes an extraordinary amount of time + effort to not only figure out, but also implement in your play. I play both at a very, very high level and I can safely say that your opinion and outlook needs revisiting.
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What Brood War has going for it, is that it's mostly the same game for 20 years, and we've collected a massive amount of English information about it. You've also probably watched tons of videos of high level play, possibly with English commentary, just for fun, so you're going to absorb a lot of information passively as well.
If we're talking about playing against experienced players, that same player can probably give a simple explanation of what happened, and what you could have done against it.
In fact most reasons why you get hit are on the lines of: You were already at frame disadvantage when you tried to attack You were not correctly spaced to do what you want and you whiffed and got punished The other player has an evasive option that he can use in that situation
And the solutions to these things are actually kind of the same. You develop a toolset of what works when you are at minor disadvantage, neutral situations, minor advantage, and heavy advantage, and there are even situations that have "solutions" that will always work, like blocking or ducking and punishing.
Specifically how you got into a disadvantaged state doesn't really affect what options you have now or in the future. In Brood War, how you got there from 5 or 10 minutes ago dictates your current options, as you will have fewer resources or the wrong resources. So the answer to Brood War problems isn't really straightforward.
Edit: Maybe you have no way to know exact frame data, but especially if you're playing someone competent, there is feedback. When you jab after you block a -12 frame move, they get hit. Especially if you don't know the matchup, things like this should happen all the time over the natural course of events.
And there's a lot of stuff that is generically true, like most hopkicks being -12 or worse. You can learn quite a lot by just throwing things out, even 15 frame launchers, after you block them and seeing what works or not.
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This was such a great match. I still need to catch up on the vods from the whole weekend but this clip was making the rounds for sure. The last minute is too much.
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Tekken World Tour is on going. Last spot participation tournament is on going AT THIS MOMENT. Started almost 2hours ago. The finals are in tomorrow(very early, 04:00 cest i believe)
To those unaware, pakistani players have entered the scene, challenging the koreans big time. Many even saying the pakistani players are the best in the world, and its not just 1 or 2, there are several really great ones. With that said, this tournament is the most hyped since the release of Tekken 7. Its Korea vs pakistani, while Anakin seems to have improved big time from America and another hyped player is "Super Akouma" from france. What chocked many people is that pakistani players used akuma very succesfull, while many were stating that akuma was very weak.
We will also most likely get the announcement of more DLC character and more information about the current ongoing dlc character. The next patch for tekken 7 will be great, a dlc character which is really hyped, most hyped character in a long time. Also framedata and punish guide incoming. First time ever we will see Frame data in the actual game.
Official stream: https://www.twitch.tv/TEKKEN
Bracket: https://liquipedia.net/fighters/Tekken_World_Tour_Finals/2019
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I must say that out of the 3 big 3d fighters (Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur) Tekken is looking the worst and fights are the most boring. It's still enjoyable though.
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On December 07 2019 17:53 Manit0u wrote: I must say that out of the 3 big 3d fighters (Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur) Tekken is looking the worst and fights are the most boring. It's still enjoyable though.
Really? I think Soul Calibur looks beyond boring. Tekken is imho a bit too juggle heavy which made me quit it ~1-2 months after it's release (made it to green ranks and was doing quite well in General, just couldn't be bothered to learn the perfect strings to push myself further).
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Tekken 7 is one of the best fighting games on the market right now hands down. The competitive scene has seen persistent growth over the last few years in entrants, prize pools, number of major events. It's very reminiscient of Street Fighter 4 to me, which just kept growing and growing and showcasing some of the tightest high level gameplay year after year even though it came with it's fair share of criticisms as well.
The competition at the highest levels has had some fascinating story arcs, especially Pakistan out of nowhere this year. The top of the cast could probably use some tiny balance adjustments, but they have been making small changes over time during and between the big "season" releases. And most importantly they are small and careful changes, aiming to bring everyone in line and enhance the game long-term, instead of just absolutely gutting whatever character seems most common at the moment. They also keep giving the rest of the cast that feels like it's lagging behind a bit new tools and small buffs to make them more exciting to play/watch.
It's my favorite fighting game out there right now, and I don't even play a ton at all. The spectator experience is just that good and there are so many events to always be looking forward to. The TWT Top 8 itself could have been a bit more exciting, but there were some gems (Anakin's matches come to mind), and the Last Chance Qualifier from the day before was SUPER good, and I'd actually recommend that over the finals day to anyone interested in catching up a bit.
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On December 10 2019 01:32 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2019 17:53 Manit0u wrote: I must say that out of the 3 big 3d fighters (Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur) Tekken is looking the worst and fights are the most boring. It's still enjoyable though. Really? I think Soul Calibur looks beyond boring. Tekken is imho a bit too juggle heavy which made me quit it ~1-2 months after it's release (made it to green ranks and was doing quite well in General, just couldn't be bothered to learn the perfect strings to push myself further).
Most of the 3d fighting games are pretty juggle heavy as this is usually the only way to ensure your strings connect due to mechanics (in DoA you have holds which can interrupt you mid-combo even if some of it already connected, SC has guard impacts, soul charge and such, Tekken is just poking to find an opening for a launcher to deliver the real damage).
And by grading Tekken as the most boring I've looked past just regular mechanics. Out of the 3 games it has - the least 3d movement - the most dull stages (SC has ringouts, more varied stages and better looking ones, DoA is on another level here with stages that have obstacles, breaking parts that do damage and sometimes move you to entirely different stage, stages with varying elevation levels which affects juggles, different surfaces which have side-effects like slip-stun etc.) - the most boring meter mechanics - it does have a lot of characters and customization but it's a moot point if it has the worst graphics aesthetically and is so dark that you barely see anything (the fact that historically Tekken used hit effects to hide blows not connecting/passing through enemies and other flaws in their engine doesn't help either)
It's hard for me to get excited when I can hardly see anything that's going on...
Now compare it to how clean DoA looks, where graphics are much better, animation much smoother and you clearly see every move a character makes so you can follow the action without even knowing the movelists.
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Tekken's great to play. I've been addicted lately. Don't mind the ESPORTS.
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I'm playing all 3 titles. But for me Tekken is the worst, despite having the biggest community. It just feels really clunky and unresponsive, not to mention uninspired. But that's just my opinion.
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Tekken 7 is still continuing to grow, which is pretty crazy for a game that will be 5 years old soon. Seems like every other FG has had a 6 month shelf life. Harada is very in touch with the scene. He's been adding a lot of what players want and has actually shrugged off Tekken 8 because he said the current game is doing well so it doesn't make sense to release a new one.
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Tekken's movement is probably more responsive than soulcalibur but there is an execution barrier. That's why when pro's move it looks really clean and nothing like amateur's movement.
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On December 10 2019 20:11 Agh wrote: Tekken 7 is still continuing to grow, which is pretty crazy for a game that will be 5 years old soon. Seems like every other FG has had a 6 month shelf life. Harada is very in touch with the scene. He's been adding a lot of what players want and has actually shrugged off Tekken 8 because he said the current game is doing well so it doesn't make sense to release a new one.
Sure, it does make sense to wait for the next gen consoles with the new entry. I just hope they can make the meter mechanics more entertaining then and make graphics a bit brighter because it's definitely too dark right now.
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Fight in the mansion, but then things are far too bright. Hit sparks tell a lot.
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Tekken is one of my fav game to watch and play. I never have time to play so never got past the green rank but i enjoy watching it. Good to see that Leroy took a healthy nerf to the head.
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