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On June 03 2015 07:42 Gimpb wrote:
I can offer a few suggestions:
...- a bit of casual chat during picks or when bad things happen seems to preempt a lot of bad behavior, guessing because people then feel less anonymous...
I think this is a good suggestion. In the same vein i also agree with the notion of seeking out your teammates' habits if you know you're more than likely to tilt as the game starts becoming unwinnable.
Of course, this is more from a supporting role but can apply to anybody.
It comes in steps as you figure out where they like to default to farming. You generally see their item progression in terms of how quickly and what choices they're making. If nothing else, you figure out what not to do if you're ever in a similar position.
but generally there are some good ideas to take away from watching other people play. This is if you don't end up watching replays as those are time commitments in their own right.
When you're tilting you start making mistakes and get called out on them, even if many mistakes are coming out from everybody else. A lot of scapegoating occurs and the affordance of cores mattering more in relation to the outcome of a fight usually means the other players jump sides and start flaming you the same too.
So yes, in a lot of ways, your right to defend yourself or to make better claims depends on you having the play to back it up.
In a lot of cases even in the outside world, people who sound very confident and are very assertive become very believable even if what they're actually saying has little to no merit. This is what will happen when players think their opinions are stronger or matter more. At the same time, having absolutely no leadership on a team can be just as bad.
I'm not saying that people who talk a lot are leaders and playmakers. In a game with very little communication they're providing for your team the only words that are visible to read, so in a sense they have a monopoly on your teammates' attention. You had the ability to do the very same.
I think the general idea that many people here are trying to communicate is that if your team is chaotic, it often means you have to take up the leadership role and make something happen.. whether it be amends to the way your team has been playing, calming down the typing, or making sure everybody knows their role in an upcoming teamfight.
Same idea applies while you're in critically losing condition in a game. You are likely to be losing sooner or later, so why not pick a solid strategy and try to make something happen?
Hoping for the other team to make terrible mistakes vs. forcing them to play out of comfort and capitalizing on their mistakes.
Before you build a solid base of game sense and your own precognitions, any whine or flaming a player provides can have merit. That is, merit in the sense that you learn these players are hard to play around and be teammates to in certain situations.
Just read between the lines and make actual sense out of the unnecessary flaming.
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On June 02 2015 22:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2015 13:43 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow? Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people? The advice of "get a thicker skin" is pretty useless. Everyone knows not to let trolls and assclowns get to them. But that doesn't mean they are successful all the time. And the point of the thread is how to deal with a troll that has gotten to you in some way. Personally, I try to focus on the other players in the match and work with them. When you have the one horrible player, it is likely everyone on the team is in the same boat as you. Getting together with them and ignoring the toxic clown can work out. Of course the problem is at some point you will need to fight as 5. At that point I recommend the plan of following the horrible player around until you run into the enemy team. Taking control of away from the toxic asshat is the key to deal with them.
Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team.
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On June 03 2015 09:25 gaijindash wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2015 22:20 Plansix wrote:On June 02 2015 13:43 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow? Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people? The advice of "get a thicker skin" is pretty useless. Everyone knows not to let trolls and assclowns get to them. But that doesn't mean they are successful all the time. And the point of the thread is how to deal with a troll that has gotten to you in some way. Personally, I try to focus on the other players in the match and work with them. When you have the one horrible player, it is likely everyone on the team is in the same boat as you. Getting together with them and ignoring the toxic clown can work out. Of course the problem is at some point you will need to fight as 5. At that point I recommend the plan of following the horrible player around until you run into the enemy team. Taking control of away from the toxic asshat is the key to deal with them. Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team.
I agree with that. The main problem a lot of players have is that they feed the negative behavior. Telling a player they are bad isn't going to make them improve or make you play any better. The OP seems to be expecting more communication than is really necessary in Dota. Mine boils down to "lets murder this fool," at max.
I think the OP's main problem is that he is looking for people to "work together". The easiest way to handle that is to simply go to your team mates and work with them. A lot of players make the mistake trying to dictate the course of the game and then assuming the other players don't want to.
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On June 03 2015 22:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 09:25 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 22:20 Plansix wrote:On June 02 2015 13:43 gaijindash wrote:On June 02 2015 09:31 HewTheTitan wrote:
Somebody said "grow a thick skin":
Thanks tips. LOL. What do you think this thread is about? You may as well say "git gud" in a different strat thread.
Anyone with something more specific on that one? It seems that the idea is to just not care somehow? Damn with an attitude like that are you sure the problem is other people? The advice of "get a thicker skin" is pretty useless. Everyone knows not to let trolls and assclowns get to them. But that doesn't mean they are successful all the time. And the point of the thread is how to deal with a troll that has gotten to you in some way. Personally, I try to focus on the other players in the match and work with them. When you have the one horrible player, it is likely everyone on the team is in the same boat as you. Getting together with them and ignoring the toxic clown can work out. Of course the problem is at some point you will need to fight as 5. At that point I recommend the plan of following the horrible player around until you run into the enemy team. Taking control of away from the toxic asshat is the key to deal with them. Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team. I agree with that. The main problem a lot of players have is that they feed the negative behavior. Telling a player they are bad isn't going to make them improve or make you play any better. The OP seems to be expecting more communication than is really necessary in Dota. Mine boils down to "lets murder this fool," at max. I think the OP's main problem is that he is looking for people to "work together". The easiest way to handle that is to simply go to your team mates and work with them. A lot of players make the mistake trying to dictate the course of the game and then assuming the other players don't want to.
The key has an always will be realistic expectations and problem solving. If its realistic to expect a certain level of cooperation and achievable without too much effort then do it, if not find other solutions
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Ty for ideas so far.
Some of you mentioned Captains mode. What's the most basic skill/knowledge set needed to not be a burden in that mode?
I'm only semi-competent with Warlock and Sven so far for example, I think I'm supposed to be semi-competent with 6 heroes from a few roles. Yes? No?
some replies:
I think the OP's main problem is that he is looking for people to "work together". The easiest way to handle that is to simply go to your team mates and work with them.
This is interesting. Can you elaborate? What if the "team" isn't together, or isn't doing anything useful?
an aside: reminds me of a duo-queue game the other day with my friend:
The "follow the biggest jerk" strategy my bud came up with: find the guy who cannot work together to save his life, Rambo with bm, and stick to him like glue until everyone joins you two. Won a few games like that...
I think that's how those psycho warlords get into power in Mad Max and Walking Dead 
I can offer a few suggestions:
...- a bit of casual chat during picks or when bad things happen seems to preempt a lot of bad behavior, guessing because people then feel less anonymous...
I found this was great advice when I played L4D. In dota though, only 1/3 games can I get any reply whatsoever. I don't get it. It's like playing with bots man. Is it a low mmr thing?
Totally agree that it is useless advice, but there are ways of going about things where you don't sound angry, bitter or confrontational. I would argue OP acts this way oftentimes without realising the impact it has on the way he interacts with his team.
Good advice, but please don't assume so much based on somebody checking a forum for help after getting frustrated online
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On June 04 2015 01:52 HewTheTitan wrote:
Some of you mentioned Captains mode. What's the most basic skill/knowledge set needed to not be a burden in that mode?
Be prepared for a lot more shit people in low mmr cm. If you aren't captain, its almost certainly gg because the chances of you running into a competent captain at 2k-3k is about as good as you winning millions in the lottery. Also there will be a lot of people who will either leave, troll, feed, etc if they are given a hero they didn't want or just because they didn't get to be captain. The only thing you can do is hope none of these scenarios befall you and know a good bit about team composition and drafting orders.
I'm only semi-competent with Warlock and Sven so far for example, I think I'm supposed to be semi-competent with 6 heroes from a few roles. Yes? No?
I would not recommend a static number of heroes to be aiming for because any higher level player approached the game with the idea that they would need to have 100% all heroes and abilities memorized and be able to play at a high level of skill with at least all but maybe 10. If you really want to perform well at this game, one of the first things that has to disappear is the unfamiliarity with heroes. All heroes. You can't skip or be lazy about that step if you want wins. This is easily remedied with playtime, however and will occur as you play the game more.
This is interesting. Can you elaborate? What if the "team" isn't together, or isn't doing anything useful?
Then you should be farming and getting bigger. Can't do anything useful with the team because they're all spread out being lowbie retards? Then do something useful like getting more levels and items yourself as fast as you can because you should realize if they are often incapable of being in a position to actually defend or push, you are going to have to drive the ship.
I found this was great advice when I played L4D. In dota though, only 1/3 games can I get any reply whatsoever. I don't get it. It's like playing with bots man. Is it a low mmr thing?
It is. If they don't respond its an almost guaranteed "I am shit and too stupid to know it" sign in 99.999999% of cases. Either a native too dumb to communicate a lot in a team game, or a foreigner who was too stupid to pick a language they speak or in a region they can play in without huge lag. Above 4k and especially on my accounts way past 5k close to 6k+ level play, I find it can almost be difficult to follow what's happening, there's so much discussion and chat going on. More communication, better teamwork from better players who realize such a thing is needed. At higher levels, you might even have to ask "cut the chatter, we have a teamfight to do!"
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Ive made no conclusions that you havent led me to
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If your MMR is really low, like sub 3k, I would suggest just working on fundamentals and playing with friends. Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically.
As you rise in MMR you will encounter more people who actually give a shit. This will mean people will be more precise and obnoxious with their criticism, but it will also mean people will want to win more as they understand how the game works, which means they will appreciate communication. I am at a point where I will get at least 2 other people on my team who I can start talking to and when I do get massive dicks on my team, they will usually have some justification for acting that way (shitty lanes, dumb play, etc), rather then just flaming out of the gate.
Hope you figure something out.
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Don't do captain's mode and stick with all pick to learn the game and to avoid noob traps such as AR, CM, CD, RD and especially Single Draft (SD). Play with friends or make friends. Play Ranked matchmaking and work your way up without worrying about number.
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On June 04 2015 18:40 Surprise.820 wrote:
Don't do captain's mode and stick with all pick to learn the game and to avoid noob traps such as CM, CD, RD and especially Single Draft. Play with friends or make friends. Play Ranked matchmaking and work your way up without worrying about number.
I definitely agree with this. At the level of play you're currently at the amount of games you can put in is the thing that will benefit you the most. Besides your concerns about your limited hero pool the sheer time spent waiting for picks/bans in CM would be the biggest disadvantage. Also people tend to be very toxic in CM as well in my experience since everyone will blaim the captain if things are not going well and there's always that one guy who can't drop the fact that he didn't get to play his favourite hero this time either.
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It's often a trope that people go into CM thinking it'll be better than All Pick but it just isn't and the problem with your ranking is that you might not be good enough to rise (attitudes of playerbase aside.)
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I wouldn't totally write off RD or CD. If your in the mood to be forced to try a new hero, its pretty good. Also the people in RD and CD are often more friend from my experience. They know they are not going to get to play their hero of choice and are ok with filling a role.
Not a great mode for refining your skills with a hero, but great for getting your feet wet and not being screamed at.
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RD or CD is where I retreat when games are obnoxiously bad i.e. TI4 emulating Mek pushes from Dooms, Enigmas, Chens, Razors, Death Prophets etc. Even 6.83 had decent hero variety + a mid game.
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On June 04 2015 11:24 sCCrooked wrote:
Be prepared for a lot more shit people in low mmr cm. If you aren't captain, its almost certainly gg because the chances of you running into a competent captain at 2k-3k is about as good as you winning millions in the lottery. Also there will be a lot of people who will either leave, troll, feed, etc if they are given a hero they didn't want or just because they didn't get to be captain.
My experiences in low mmr -cm are less stark than you describe. Mainly:
1) If a player gives a list of 5 or so heroes they want to play, the captain will usually oblige them.
2) Both teams are unlikely to have a good captain (although the 55% rule applies against you here). The 'good' outcome is a captain who listens to his teammates, which is also the common case at the floor of the 2k bracket. Behavior may vary at the ceiling, though, as you also get players on the way down from the 3k bracket who think they know better than the players on their way up.
3) The 55% rule applies to trolls, as always; don't troll yourself and the trolling will generally work in your favor.
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Is there some channel or group you can go to find people to play with? I know sc2 TL has a practice partners thread every season.
Above 4k and especially on my accounts way past 5k close to 6k+ level play, I find it can almost be difficult to follow what's happening, there's so much discussion and chat going on.
Really? Every time I try to talk to somebody about it, they say there's no point in pub games. That's encouraging!
Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically.
I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice?
I guess what I'm asking is: "what's a good role to use to get out of this low mmr swamp, while actually getting better?" (edit: what lane too? Mid seems fought-over)
Ive made no conclusions that you havent led me to
You're really going to troll somebody who's started a thread for help dealing with trolling? You better be wearing a monocle with all that class 
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On June 05 2015 01:03 HewTheTitan wrote:Show nested quote +Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically. I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice?
I remember going through this particular bracket. The solution I settled on was Vengeful Spirit, a support who can role-swap to a farming carry or position 3 utility hero if the lane falls out so that she gets the last hits.
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On June 05 2015 01:03 HewTheTitan wrote:
I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice?
I guess what I'm asking is: "what's a good role to use to get out of this low mmr swamp, while actually getting better?" (edit: what lane too? Mid seems fought-over)
2 cents, I tend to believe every player has a distinct play style where he/she shines and blindly going mid doesn't cut every time. Whenever I want to increase my mmr (sometimes i play clowny , experimental, i lost mmr), I try my go to heroes, roles and try to pick according to composition of the game. For a few weeks, jungle ursa alone nets me about 200+ mmr by itself because people doesn't know how to answer and even in some games people try to deal with and I overcome vast majority of those by simple efficient jungling and good rotations.
I.e going full mid without committing a specific hero doesn't work for me. I don't play mid if I don't have to so playing a jungler, roamer or a disrupting offlane suits better to me. Also I counter pick a lot at those times.
I mean training mid will work eventually because you'll get better eventually and you have tools like xp,farm, control etc.. but I don't think it is the only way.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On June 05 2015 01:30 Buckyman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 01:03 HewTheTitan wrote:Once you get fundamentals down you can climb MMR really easy because most people have shitty fundamentals and you can just outplay them mechanically. I've been trying to learn support. Is that a bad idea early on? I try not to take any last hits, but half the time the carry I'm with doesn't even go for them... It seems best to go semi-carry for this mechanics practice? I remember going through this particular bracket. The solution I settled on was Vengeful Spirit, a support who can role-swap to a farming carry or position 3 utility hero if the lane falls out so that she gets the last hits.
i did the same thing w/ venge. it got to the point where i was able to safe lane carry if my team didn't have a safelaner.
this is good for many reasons..you learn to play the hero in and out in addition to supporting your team which is usually what your team needs.
just recognize that as a support you will likely get little recognition for what you do to help win the game.
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What do you do when you get everyone talking, everyone picks roles/lanes, then 3 change their minds 2 minutes into the game, go mid, and won't leave, then they start insulting everyone so you have to mute them all?
If I leave the game I get LPQ or whatever it's called, probably reported. If I stay, I lose an hour of my life. What an insult to injury. It makes you want to quit playing pretty darn fast man...
Sorry, had a bad (5ish) games, I think I'm venting, but I'm THIS close to quitting mobas. It's been 56 hours of this, according to steam.
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EPT
