[Hero] Spectre - Page 6

On June 30 2014 13:04 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Hey I wanted some peoples opinions. When you are farming really well and you have something like brown boots PMS --> Radiance do you go back for t2 boots like phase/treads? It feels strange. You farm so quickly at that point, I'd rather get a yasha to boost the power of my haunt. Then once I have the yasha, I figure I might as well complete the manta.

Basically, what do you guys think about upgraded boots under no pressure?
http://dotabuff.com/matches/749530176
http://dotabuff.com/matches/733893261

If you want an idea of the games. Basically once you have radiance farm, I feel many other items give you a better gain then upgrading the boots. I think if anything, maybe the treads, but I don't think illusions get the +30IAS (correct me if I'm wrong) so it seems kind of pointless.
EDIT: Tested it, illusions do not get the IAS from treads.

As an aside, on the topic of the RFO discussion, I think a lot of you think spectre is just a haunt. One of the reasons heart is amazing is because dispersion completely destroys teams, while the radiance forces them to deal with you. If the other team has zero strength heroes then it is probably more viable, but in that case they would probably be nuke heavy and heart survivability and dispersion might be just as viable.

It's definitely a fun build though.

On June 30 2014 13:55 NeoRussia wrote:
dispersion is indeed underrated. I forgot what game it was but there was a batrider and radiance naga with 3 other heroes all ganking this spectre and she killed all of them with dispersion.

What are your guys' opinions on these items: armlet, SnY, skadi, mjollnir?

On June 30 2014 15:21 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote:
I kindve feel Radiance is a bit gimmicky. Is their any other use other than Haunt for teamfights? I play Spectre more typical carry with Heart Butterfly and I always squash their team as long as I don't die too much in lane (which is quite hard)

On June 30 2014 15:31 Mecha King Ghidorah wrote:
I've always thought of it as an item you would only get if you have no tide/sk/etc since its only really useful for burn damage from haunt. I honestly avoid getting it like the plague since its build up is forever, it flops late game, and without haunt it does nothing. I honestly feel I do more damage with Diffusal/Heart/Butterfly in team fights as I can 3v5 their team at any point rather than wait for haunt. Is their some pro strat I am not getting?

On June 30 2014 13:40 lolfail9001 wrote:

Dispersion does not destroy teams, radiance does, in fact, do the math, on 3k HP spectre dispersion (assuming spectre dies) does approximately 1k HP worth of damage to everyone in melee-300 range that linearly decreases to 0 at 1k range (so approximately 500 damage at ~600 range). Not much, considering that main carry dies. Now, radiance burn for 14 seconds from double haunt does 525 damage, and i did not even include desolate procs that will happen at the very least in 2nd haunt since most of mobility spells were already used and people are more likely to run away and split up than not. So, from damage point of view, radiance-refresher=radiance-heart, difference is that in 2nd case you need to die to do same damage.

On June 30 2014 19:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Played Spectre quite a bit and was testing a lot of builds.

To be honest, I didn't like Refresher as second item at all, you just aren't doing enough damage with illusions if you aren't way too much ahead. What works for me so far is to go for Phaseboots, Radiance into Manta/Diffusal or both, and then get Refresher as third/forth item.

My build was changing a lot depending on the game and how much I was harassed and how good my farm was. Last Spectre game I'd played, I had terrible laneing stage, and was ganked a lot, while my team started to die a lot. I went for Vanguard(which I usually disagree with but it is quite situational and here it was very good), Blademail and started to gank with mates. The recover from early game happened when I was farming jungle with just Vanguard, Phase and Magic stick, while my courier was flying to me to give me Blademail. Lina, Ogre and Enigma ganked me, Lina used Eul on me to set up stun and in that moment courier gave me Blademail. When I fell to the ground, I activated it, Ogre and Lina killed themself, I escaped literally with 50 HP and my mates arrived and killed Enigma.

After that I went for Diffusal and Manta and then Refresher(which was like 5th item in this case even though first 2 weren't really big items) and ended up with 20-4 in the end in the game that we were losing.

My conclusion:
-Radiance really is the most important item on Spectre.
-If you didn't get Radiance around minute 25-30 at worst possible scenario, I am not sure you should get it at all.
-If you can't farm Radiance, going for early game ganking builds is worth it, Phase/Treads with Drums/Vang/Blademail(or any combination of these three) are good options. If you aren't going Radiance because of bad early game, you should watch for ganks with these items to make a comeback if possible since your farm will be quite slow without Radiance.
-From my experience in most cases leveling up Desolate first and then Dagger is a lot better than vice versa. Dagger costs a lot of mana, you won't be able to spam it nor farm with it as it deals poor damage anyway. With maxed Desolate your Haunt illusions deal a lot of damage in the early game and can kill someone without a need to reality to them, as moving out of the lane to get one kill in most cases isn't worth it all.
-Refresher is amazing, but as I said, not as second item. If you have solid early game you can get Ring of Health just for the regen, go straight into Radiance and then Manta/Diffusal/Skadi whatever you think is needed for the game and then you can get Refresher as third/forth item.

I disagree with guys saying "if you want to play early game ganking Spectre, you should pick another hero" or something along those lines. It is more like that I am forced to play Spectre like that if I had bad early game, because I have higher chances to win if I get a lot smaller, tanky items and go for ganks then if I try to farm my Radiance and get it around 35-40 minute.
Happened quite a lot in my games and going for Radiance when heavy behind was never a good choice.

On June 30 2014 21:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

I think the refresher build is only meant as a straight rush after a fast radiance. Otherwise it's effectiveness diminishes rapidly. IE: a 16-19 minute radiance --> refresher. You can't get a 30 minute radiance then get the refresher because I think it would be too weak then.

As a side note, I think Radiance --> yasha --> refresher is probably the most optimal item path because of the huge bonus you get from any sort of speed boost. I also think treads is probably your boot of choice, particularly if you go the SNY route.

On June 30 2014 21:45 Ramiz1989 wrote:

I disagree that Refresher is losing effectiveness later in the game, I think that it is just stronger and stronger if the game goes on because of your other items, of course up to the point when you are 6 slotted and when it can't get better than that. But when you have like, Radiance, Manta, Diffusal, Refresher and Etheral Blade/Butterfly(or both), your Illusions are hitting like a truck.

I agree about Radiance -> Yasha -> Refresher, you don't really have to finish whole Manta or S&Y. About fast Radiance into Refresher, it could work but you barely have 700 mana without other items if you just get like Boots, Radiance, Refresher and Magic stick at that point, it could be troublesome if you aren't in base. From my experience, if you go for Radiance and then straight into Refresher, and enemy team with Meka for example decide to push as 5, your Radiance + Refresher isn't doing much and you can't fight them head on because of your poor survivability. And if you've completely crushed them and they barely can afford boots, then it doesn't really matter what items you are going to make after Radiance. :D

On June 30 2014 21:18 FuzioNda1337 wrote:
spectre is only legit to pick and have on your team if you have following. great teamfight/gank/stun/cc presence on your team,other aoe combos with your ult, oldschool aa spec with another global burst dmg, zeus or is powerful, however it all depends on other teams picks, if they go agro tri, you can expect lost game.

spectre is one of the worst carries in the game and she is not even the best carry by far even.


only good part with her is her dagger slows, thru bkb.and her ultimate presence.


You should always bring the fight to spectre if you are against spec, same as io(if possible)


her farming speed is very bad also.

i have always felt that her dispersion been lackluster ability even how praised it is by some players. i would like that she got an activate aoe nuke. that works like echoslams, motivating others to not stand close to eachother for her passive to work better.

but of course not as strong as echo but work around that way.

anyway she has her games where she is great, but she is like that hero you feel somone could have done the same job but better anyway.

Thats why she aint picked, you can smell straight away if a game is lost if a pro team picks spec, other teams picks, and their picks.

for instance alliance when they picked her last TI i knew game was lost right during all picks and bans.

if there is one hero i would suggest anyone to stay away from if they wanna learn a specific hero that is so lackluster in so many ways and easily countered, and limiting your team by a lot. spectre is one of them.

about refresher radiance build, it is really legit, but keep in mind those heroes she is great with this build is also the heroes that a great trilaners against her, cm,veno,lion,lina,lesh and such.

So if you get that fast they are doing somthing wrong or failed miserbly, and you will notice that you cant go this build vs these and forced to skip that radiance. very fast and get a fast diff instead.

On June 30 2014 22:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

I should of clarified. I meant that having radiance refresher at 25ish is much better than having radiance refresher at 35-40 as two items. If you are fighting to the point where your radiance is so late, I don't think you can afford to go the radiance when the manta gives you much more utility in a fight with a much shorter CD. The item scales well with your items but I was referring to if you get a late radiance, that other items are probably better for you and your team than a refresher.

But yeah, I think it will probably require your first couple of uses be from the fountain, maybe haunt and TP home, then refresh, then haunt out again. I think the timing needs to be good for the refresher because it should guarantee your first use of it results in a near team wipe, which should allow you to snowball really hard into your next item like finishing the SNY, or grabbing your diffusal for the next fight.

On June 30 2014 22:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

I should of clarified. I meant that having radiance refresher at 25ish is much better than having radiance refresher at 35-40 as two items. If you are fighting to the point where your radiance is so late, I don't think you can afford to go the radiance when the manta gives you much more utility in a fight with a much shorter CD. The item scales well with your items but I was referring to if you get a late radiance, that other items are probably better for you and your team than a refresher.

But yeah, I think it will probably require your first couple of uses be from the fountain, maybe haunt and TP home, then refresh, then haunt out again. I think the timing needs to be good for the refresher because it should guarantee your first use of it results in a near team wipe, which should allow you to snowball really hard into your next item like finishing the SNY, or grabbing your diffusal for the next fight.