EPTHow to kill Bloodseeker? - Page 3
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Aruno
New Zealand748 Posts
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 09 2012 07:12 wherebugsgo wrote: Actually I'd say BS is a better laner than NS IMO. You can't really harass him out of lane unless he's bad at last hitting or you have two heroes. NS is retardedly easy to harass out of lane or at least force him to use void to farm. BS can completely screw you over in the early laning phase just by last hitting everything and getting health off of that. Wat, blood seeker deals with harass INCREDIBLY poorly and handles ganks even worse than night stalker does. If you just let him last hit everything and regain the hp he wants, sure. Night stalker has amazing armor and great base strength and strength gain. Blood seeker is so incredibly easy to shut down and his laning honestly isn't good, but for some reason pubs rarely go and just deal with the problem the easy way. Night stalkers ganks are also way more potent and if he's sent mid he just needs boots and levels to make the first night dangerous for the enemies. Ontop of that, blood seeker NEEDS a good early game/laning to be an even remotely worthwhile hero, night stalker doesn't need amazing farm during the laning to be worthwhile. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 09 2012 07:56 Unleashing wrote: Wat, blood seeker deals with harass INCREDIBLY poorly and handles ganks even worse than night stalker does. If you just let him last hit everything and regain the hp he wants, sure. Night stalker has amazing armor and great base strength and strength gain. Blood seeker is so incredibly easy to shut down and his laning honestly isn't good, but for some reason pubs rarely go and just deal with the problem the easy way. Night stalkers ganks are also way more potent and if he's sent mid he just needs boots and levels to make the first night dangerous for the enemies. Ontop of that, blood seeker NEEDS a good early game/laning to be an even remotely worthwhile hero, night stalker doesn't need amazing farm during the laning to be worthwhile. Bloodseeker has the same base strength as NS. I agree about all of the points you've made about NS, and NS is stronger against ganks, but BS is a better laner. In terms of laning capability I'm talking about just sitting there and farming. It's almost impossible to outlasthit a bloodseeker with quelling, and he regenerates health every time he denies too. It's particularly annoying as invoker with the base damage nerf. Your only real choice is to cold snap him repeatedly and keep sending attacks at him, or hope to get a gank, since your base damage is so low. If he even gets one or two last hits any harass you've done is immediately negated. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 09 2012 08:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Bloodseeker has the same base strength as NS. I agree about all of the points you've made about NS, and NS is stronger against ganks, but BS is a better laner. In terms of laning capability I'm talking about just sitting there and farming. It's almost impossible to outlasthit a bloodseeker with quelling, and he regenerates health every time he denies too. It's particularly annoying as invoker with the base damage nerf. Your only real choice is to cold snap him repeatedly and keep sending attacks at him, or hope to get a gank, since your base damage is so low. If he even gets one or two last hits any harass you've done is immediately negated. I said nothing about blood seeker's base strength, i know it's the same, but coupling the naturally higher armor with that good strength gain grants night stalker better surviveability. And i disagree strongly, Blood seeker is horrible in lane and incredibly easy to shut down. And if you're being outlaned by blood seeker you've either picked one of the few heroes that can't deal with him at all or you're not utilizing all the weaknesses blood seeker has. My favourite pick against blood seeker is shadow shaman, blood seeker can't deal with constant harassment very well. He's a bad hero, if you don't gank him you're saying no thank you to free gold. And to me, how well a hero deals with harassment and ganks is a part of their laning phase. And blood seeker deals poorly with both. Note: I'm not saying night stalker is amazing in lane, but even if you shut him down he can still get some farm with void. Blood seeker can't. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
On December 09 2012 08:47 Unleashing wrote: I said nothing about blood seeker's base strength, i know it's the same, but coupling the naturally higher armor with that good strength gain grants night stalker better surviveability. And i disagree strongly, Blood seeker is horrible in lane and incredibly easy to shut down. And if you're being outlaned by blood seeker you've either picked one of the few heroes that can't deal with him at all or you're not utilizing all the weaknesses blood seeker has. My favourite pick against blood seeker is shadow shaman, blood seeker can't deal with constant harassment very well. He's a bad hero, if you don't gank him you're saying no thank you to free gold. And to me, how well a hero deals with harassment and ganks is a part of their laning phase. And blood seeker deals poorly with both. Note: I'm not saying night stalker is amazing in lane, but even if you shut him down he can still get some farm with void. Blood seeker can't. Although bloodseeker is a really bad hero, his laning is not. Your "favourite pick" will hit BS in 60% for 25 damage and for 45 in 40% of the cases (LVL1). The only chance to bully BS out of the lane is before he gets his PMS, when he has PMS + a quelling (which is not needed) its impossible to punish him as Rhasta (unless you have lucky runes or bottlecrow permanently, but even then its not too likely). If you want to spam Forked Lightning you will push the lane and give him free lasthits under the tower which will refill his life. Rhasta gets another opportunity on LVL6 but so does BS. Overall BS should win against SS in 90% of the cases, obviously we are talking about this in a vaccuum, you said he is a bad laner even without getting ganged. PS: Send me a PM if you want to convince me otherwise in a game, BS is probably the least favourite hero of me to play, but the fact that he "cant deal with constant harassment" is simply untrue. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 09 2012 10:26 gaymon wrote: Although bloodseeker is a really bad hero, his laning is not. Yes it is, he's incredibly easy to shut down. On December 09 2012 10:26 gaymon wrote:Your "favourite pick" will hit BS in 60% for 25 damage and for 45 in 40% of the cases (LVL1). The only chance to bully BS out of the lane is before he gets his PMS, when he has PMS + a quelling (which is not needed) its impossible to punish him as Rhasta (unless you have lucky runes or bottlecrow permanently, but even then its not too likely).. What the fuck are you talking about? It's very easy to punish him as rhasta, and you don't need to be lucky with runes or bottlecrow permanently, you WILL get all runes against him due to nature of your heroes. On December 09 2012 10:26 gaymon wrote:If you want to spam Forked Lightning you will push the lane and give him free lasthits under the tower which will refill his life. Wat, since when was pushing the lane something negative? When rhasta pushes the lane he gets complete rune control and gets an even bigger lane advantage ontop of constantly harassing blood seeker, and if you're ontop of your game you'll win the lane in terms of CS and having ANY of your teammates circle into the lane gives you a 100% kill due to 2 disables on rhasta alone and any followup damage from your allies is just icing ontop of the cake. On December 09 2012 10:26 gaymon wrote:Overall BS should win against SS in 90% of the cases, obviously we are talking about this in a vaccuum, you said he is a bad laner even without getting ganged. No, a good shadow shaman should win against bloodseeker most of the time, gankign is a part of the laning phase which is why i said he is MY favourite, games of DotA isn't played in a vaccum. And no i didn't directly say that he's a bad laner without getting ganked, i said he's easy to shut down in lane, which is true, he'll be man-handled by most standard mid-heroes incredibly hard. And adding ganks into the mix just further increases how bad a hero he is, and i pick rhasta due to how easily he dominates runes against BS and due to the low cooldown of forked lightning which gives incredible harass, forked lightning has an 8 second cooldown, if you're spamming it from full mana at level 3~ he takes 200 magic damage every 8 seconds ontop of your auto attacks. At level 3~ blood seeker will get around 60~ hp from each melee creep he last hits, this will not make up for it even if he gets all 3 melee creeps. Double damage runes, regen runes and illusion runes further increase your lane dominance. On December 09 2012 10:26 gaymon wrote:PS: Send me a PM if you want to convince me otherwise in a game, BS is probably the least favourite hero of me to play, but the fact that he "cant deal with constant harassment" is simply untrue. This is so incredibly pointless. We have no idea of skill levels, i could be miles above you in skill levels or you could be miles above me. This would prove nothing to anybody, it'd be like giving dendi meepo or some hero with incredibly horrible laning and then having him lane against a random pub player with hero X with incredibly good laning and then conclude that meepo is a great mid hero against X hero. A bit exaggerated, but you should get the point. And he can't deal with constant harassment, i don't know why people are under this belief that bloodseeker has infinite regen in lane, if you allow him to just do whatever he pleases, possibly, but if you utilize his weaknesses, such as zero lane presence, zero rune control and no disables, you can easily dominate him. Whatever, OP got his answer and i'm not really going to discuss this further, if you believe bloodseeker is tha uber laner, fine, but i do not believe so and i believe he is incredibly easy to deal with. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On December 09 2012 10:26 gaymon wrote: Although bloodseeker is a really bad hero, his laning is not. Your "favourite pick" will hit BS in 60% for 25 damage and for 45 in 40% of the cases (LVL1). The only chance to bully BS out of the lane is before he gets his PMS, when he has PMS + a quelling (which is not needed) its impossible to punish him as Rhasta (unless you have lucky runes or bottlecrow permanently, but even then its not too likely). If you want to spam Forked Lightning you will push the lane and give him free lasthits under the tower which will refill his life. Rhasta gets another opportunity on LVL6 but so does BS. Overall BS should win against SS in 90% of the cases, obviously we are talking about this in a vaccuum, you said he is a bad laner even without getting ganged. PS: Send me a PM if you want to convince me otherwise in a game, BS is probably the least favourite hero of me to play, but the fact that he "cant deal with constant harassment" is simply untrue. Up until level 5, BS laning phrase is weak. From what you are saying, I think you're just playing too passively against him. His heal is strong, but not that strong, it regain 55/82.5/110hp for him, so until level 5 you can easily bully him out of lane. 2 auto attack of any range heroes will deal more than 55 damage on him. Only until level 5 when he should have his boot also, he's gonna be hard to deal, but still not impossible to deal. Before that, you should have no trouble bullying him out of lane as range hero. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
just switch your picks, drop the jungle, and put a ranged stun like lion or someone in mid with your standard mid. you reduce his cs to 0. ez win! | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Ratch!
Peru258 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On December 09 2012 13:59 flamewheel wrote: Man, you guys have done a good job in this thread. Every time I see this when I scroll down, I want to provide an answer like "deplete his life bar." 1. Reduce him to 0 hp. The Mr. Wiggles 1 Step Solution to Killing Bloodseeker. I'm still surprised that this keeps getting bumped, when it seems like the question has been answered suitably, haha | ||
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Amridell
188 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On December 10 2012 15:38 OmniEulogy wrote: all of the above is how to deal with blood seeker. I can't believe nobody has touched on the fact that you are running BH mid though. What's wrong with that though? He's not a bad mid-hero. | ||
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Haee
522 Posts
I found one of my many favorite stratagies involves using the blink dagger. It's of absolute importance to blinking away when ruptured into a tree so that way the hideous blood seeking beast will be swayed to hunt another man, giving you the ample yet necessary time to be able to farm. Blade mail is another superb item, the seeker of blood will attempt to battle you with honor and thus running away with a tp would disgrace that honor, thus blade mail serves as the ultimate item. | ||
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