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[Hero] Legion Commander - Page 9

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 18 Next All
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
December 30 2013 19:26 GMT
#161
I don't know how you can say "Late game is all about positioning [...]" and then say that Blink is a waste. Just because you have a Blink Dagger doesn't mean you yolo in 1v5 to initiate with Duel.
rip
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
December 30 2013 19:33 GMT
#162
On December 31 2013 04:26 TomatoBisque wrote:
I don't know how you can say "Late game is all about positioning [...]" and then say that Blink is a waste. Just because you have a Blink Dagger doesn't mean you yolo in 1v5 to initiate with Duel.

But he didn't say that Blink Dagger is a waste, he said that it is bad to play her as Initiation hero because most of the time you will just die and that you need assistance from your team if you really want to initiate.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
iv~nk~j
Profile Joined August 2012
1140 Posts
December 30 2013 21:04 GMT
#163
i find blink vastly superior to shadow blade on this hero, played quite a few games with both
TheWestWind
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada87 Posts
December 30 2013 23:38 GMT
#164
So I have been playing a few games of LC, you know, just down in the trenches.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/447331397

I started this game with a quick 0-2-3-0 jungle blink dagger. Then I transitioned into some feeding. The duels I was picking.....

I did go into phase boots and then straight into AC - I figured as long as i was dueling the doom first i could skip the bkb.

The gold graph showed dire was down at least 15 K gold at one point. Which is about when i did decide to stack damage and attack speed instead of more defensive/team oriented items. I hadn't planned on being the carry for our team but i guess it sorta worked out that way at the end. Just hang back in the teamfights until it seems like I can turn the tide with a quick duel victory.

It was a pretty close game - i got 6 slotted going battlefury last. What do you think about that item on LC? Is heart or butterfly better?

what up with that?
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
December 31 2013 00:36 GMT
#165
On December 31 2013 04:26 TomatoBisque wrote:
I don't know how you can say "Late game is all about positioning [...]" and then say that Blink is a waste. Just because you have a Blink Dagger doesn't mean you yolo in 1v5 to initiate with Duel.


I didn't say blink is a waste. Blink-duel into 5 man is bad. I bought blink every game for early ganks and 1v1 opportunities.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
December 31 2013 08:18 GMT
#166
I dunno LC seems more effective building tanky items early otherwise you just get blown the F up and don't get any stacks in team fights, and even with a fast blink you still pretty much need to roll with an ally to actually secure a gank during duel's duration as you won't have the DPS alone. And if you're that coordinated already with your allies to gank did you really need blink in the first place? And if your strategy/preferred playstyle was to snowball with aggressively early ganks is LC really the best choice here?

And you don't need blink to be effective in team fights. You can support from the back with OO and PtA to cleanse, then run in and duel at the opportune time.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-31 09:19:10
December 31 2013 08:59 GMT
#167
On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote:
I dunno LC seems more effective building tanky items early otherwise you just get blown the F up and don't get any stacks in team fights, and even with a fast blink you still pretty much need to roll with an ally to actually secure a gank during duel's duration as you won't have the DPS alone.

They key word there being team fights.

The game does't just willy nilly enter teamfight phase. There are a lot of other ways to develop the game than just maximizing teamfight effectiveness.

On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote:
And if you're that coordinated already with your allies to gank did you really need blink in the first place?

Depends on lineup and heroes. Instant engage at long range is important, particularly if it allows you to engage at range longer than the 2 key vision breakpoints--1025 range (range at which Smoke is revealed) and 800 range (night time vision). Sometimes you will get other heroes in your lineup that can initiate at long range, but even then in many of those cases, you want Blink Dagger simply to finish kills quickly. Having to walk into a Duel takes longer and gives the enemy team more time to respond.

On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote:
And if your strategy/preferred playstyle was to snowball with aggressively early ganks is LC really the best choice here?

Yes, because that's really where the strength of her kit lies.

I just don't see where the idea that LC can play an even game and become an effective teamfighter without exceptional gank effectiveness came to be. Her skillset really is not that good going into ~15 minute teamfights without a farm/level advantage and Duel stacks. OO has high optimal-case damage, but can be wildly unpredictable depending on how the fight is positioned and in the average case has far less damage output than most other Strength hero AoE nukes because of it's long CD (a Tiny or Magnus will easily get several Tosses/Shockwaves in a fight, but OO's CD is such that it's very questionable to get a 2nd one off). PtA similarly has a long CD compared to the spells you will be using it to deal with except in exceptional cases involving certain heroes and by and large shines as a lategame skill to protect and buff a carry who also uses the attack speed component. She has no non-ult disable, and her ult is heavily range-limited.

On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote:
And you don't need blink to be effective in team fights. You can support from the back with OO and PtA to cleanse, then run in and duel at the opportune time.

OO has far longer cooldown than similar AoE nukes on Strength heroes, and PtA only really shines midgame against big single-target disables (e.g. Primal Roar or Fiend's Grip). Otherwise, it's CD is far longer than most of the spells you're using it to negate.

People love to compare PtA to Abaddon's shield, but Abaddon's Shield has a 6s CD, which is LESS than most nukes/stuns that have CDs in the range of 10-12s, so you're getting a lot of value out of it to negate spells that are longer CD/higher value. This isn't the case with PtA because PtA for the most part has a much LONGER CD than the spells you're negating. So unless it's mid-lategame where the AS buff becomes more powerful on a carry with high damage, or you're using it to remove a high-value big disable, it's not exactly a stellar teamfight skill.

Again, if you do not snowball off of Duel, her kit is not better than any other Strength hero that has better nukes, better team utility skills, better farming power, and better lategame development.
Moderator
Kemy
Profile Joined November 2010
105 Posts
December 31 2013 09:08 GMT
#168
On December 31 2013 08:38 TheWestWind wrote:
So I have been playing a few games of LC, you know, just down in the trenches.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/447331397

I started this game with a quick 0-2-3-0 jungle blink dagger. Then I transitioned into some feeding. The duels I was picking.....

I did go into phase boots and then straight into AC - I figured as long as i was dueling the doom first i could skip the bkb.

The gold graph showed dire was down at least 15 K gold at one point. Which is about when i did decide to stack damage and attack speed instead of more defensive/team oriented items. I hadn't planned on being the carry for our team but i guess it sorta worked out that way at the end. Just hang back in the teamfights until it seems like I can turn the tide with a quick duel victory.

It was a pretty close game - i got 6 slotted going battlefury last. What do you think about that item on LC? Is heart or butterfly better?



Battlefury in general is an item that allows you to farm faster. You dont primarily get it for fighting because the cleave is at best situationally useful in fights. Thus, it is a pretty bad pick as your last item. Additionally, the cleave is disabled in duels. Butterfly doesnt offer much either. The evasion is disabled in duels and even if you want evasion heavens halberd just fits the hero better and the active is pretty good lategame.

One could argue if Daedalus is worth it or not. The crit portion is disabled in duels but it increases your dmg significantly while just rightclicking.

More standard lategame item choices are Desolator, Heart, Abyssal and Halberd depending on the enemy threats.
TomatoBisque
Profile Joined March 2013
United States6290 Posts
December 31 2013 13:31 GMT
#169
On December 31 2013 04:33 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2013 04:26 TomatoBisque wrote:
I don't know how you can say "Late game is all about positioning [...]" and then say that Blink is a waste. Just because you have a Blink Dagger doesn't mean you yolo in 1v5 to initiate with Duel.

But he didn't say that Blink Dagger is a waste, he said that it is bad to play her as Initiation hero because most of the time you will just die and that you need assistance from your team if you really want to initiate.

I totally misinterpreted that post then
rip
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
December 31 2013 15:47 GMT
#170
On December 31 2013 22:31 TomatoBisque wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2013 04:33 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On December 31 2013 04:26 TomatoBisque wrote:
I don't know how you can say "Late game is all about positioning [...]" and then say that Blink is a waste. Just because you have a Blink Dagger doesn't mean you yolo in 1v5 to initiate with Duel.

But he didn't say that Blink Dagger is a waste, he said that it is bad to play her as Initiation hero because most of the time you will just die and that you need assistance from your team if you really want to initiate.

I totally misinterpreted that post then

Well, yeah his way of expressing it was kind of confusing, but I understood what he meant.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
December 31 2013 23:11 GMT
#171
Been following the thread and am interested in using her jungling. Is there an optimum camp pathing/priority for her jungling wise? Never jungled before so if anyone can steer me in the right direction...
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
January 01 2014 03:38 GMT
#172
Easy camp, then walk to check hard camp while stacking or letting the easy camp respawn. If it's a troll, satyr, or wildkin camp clear it (centaurs are doable, but not as worth), else just reclear the easy camp. If you cleared the hard, reclear the easy then move to the other camps. In dire you can just rotate through the two medium and one hard camp cluster, staying away from the lane. In radiant you can rotate between the hard, medium, and hard camps near the midlane. Avoid the red and yellow bear thing camp like the plague. Consider camps with them to be dead, although sometimes stacking them makes them doable. Avoid mudgolems and centaurs if you have a better option, and stack as is convenient. Let the troll camp summon skeletons (and kill the skeletons asap).
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 01 2014 08:32 GMT
#173
It depends on Radiant or Dire. As Radiant you want to rotate easy + nearest medium and hard if they're doable, only rotating to the further 2 camps if you get some awful spawns. As Dire it's the 2 mediums and the inner hard camp.

Basically you want to not have to run around everywhere and waste time.
Moderator
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
January 01 2014 20:10 GMT
#174
Good info, thanks guys. Does Dire have a more efficient jungling then, based on locations or do spawns really dictate it?
AssyrianKing
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia2111 Posts
January 01 2014 21:57 GMT
#175
Can you bkb out of her ulti ?
John 15:13
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-01 23:32:47
January 01 2014 23:32 GMT
#176
On January 02 2014 06:57 PiPoGevy wrote:
Can you bkb out of her ulti ?


You can't use items in her ulti(duel) and duel is BKB piercing.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
January 04 2014 17:45 GMT
#177
Just noticed that if rubick steals duel and uses it on someone else, the winner doesn't get damage even if rubick loses. Is this intended?
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
January 04 2014 22:46 GMT
#178
On January 05 2014 02:45 Oktyabr wrote:
Just noticed that if rubick steals duel and uses it on someone else, the winner doesn't get damage even if rubick loses. Is this intended?

It shouldn't be.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
January 04 2014 23:34 GMT
#179
On January 05 2014 07:46 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2014 02:45 Oktyabr wrote:
Just noticed that if rubick steals duel and uses it on someone else, the winner doesn't get damage even if rubick loses. Is this intended?

It shouldn't be.


It is intended for sure.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
TomatoShark
Profile Joined August 2011
United States288 Posts
January 06 2014 06:48 GMT
#180
I think the best is lc jungle itno armlet then either blink or ac then deso or abyssal imo.
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