[Hero] Legion Commander - Page 9
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 31 2013 04:26 TomatoBisque wrote: I don't know how you can say "Late game is all about positioning [...]" and then say that Blink is a waste. Just because you have a Blink Dagger doesn't mean you yolo in 1v5 to initiate with Duel. But he didn't say that Blink Dagger is a waste, he said that it is bad to play her as Initiation hero because most of the time you will just die and that you need assistance from your team if you really want to initiate. | ||
iv~nk~j
1140 Posts
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TheWestWind
Canada87 Posts
http://dotabuff.com/matches/447331397 I started this game with a quick 0-2-3-0 jungle blink dagger. Then I transitioned into some feeding. The duels I was picking..... I did go into phase boots and then straight into AC - I figured as long as i was dueling the doom first i could skip the bkb. The gold graph showed dire was down at least 15 K gold at one point. Which is about when i did decide to stack damage and attack speed instead of more defensive/team oriented items. I hadn't planned on being the carry for our team but i guess it sorta worked out that way at the end. Just hang back in the teamfights until it seems like I can turn the tide with a quick duel victory. It was a pretty close game - i got 6 slotted going battlefury last. What do you think about that item on LC? Is heart or butterfly better? | ||
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On December 31 2013 04:26 TomatoBisque wrote: I don't know how you can say "Late game is all about positioning [...]" and then say that Blink is a waste. Just because you have a Blink Dagger doesn't mean you yolo in 1v5 to initiate with Duel. I didn't say blink is a waste. Blink-duel into 5 man is bad. I bought blink every game for early ganks and 1v1 opportunities. | ||
Skyro
United States1823 Posts
And you don't need blink to be effective in team fights. You can support from the back with OO and PtA to cleanse, then run in and duel at the opportune time. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote: I dunno LC seems more effective building tanky items early otherwise you just get blown the F up and don't get any stacks in team fights, and even with a fast blink you still pretty much need to roll with an ally to actually secure a gank during duel's duration as you won't have the DPS alone. They key word there being team fights. The game does't just willy nilly enter teamfight phase. There are a lot of other ways to develop the game than just maximizing teamfight effectiveness. On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote: And if you're that coordinated already with your allies to gank did you really need blink in the first place? Depends on lineup and heroes. Instant engage at long range is important, particularly if it allows you to engage at range longer than the 2 key vision breakpoints--1025 range (range at which Smoke is revealed) and 800 range (night time vision). Sometimes you will get other heroes in your lineup that can initiate at long range, but even then in many of those cases, you want Blink Dagger simply to finish kills quickly. Having to walk into a Duel takes longer and gives the enemy team more time to respond. On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote: And if your strategy/preferred playstyle was to snowball with aggressively early ganks is LC really the best choice here? Yes, because that's really where the strength of her kit lies. I just don't see where the idea that LC can play an even game and become an effective teamfighter without exceptional gank effectiveness came to be. Her skillset really is not that good going into ~15 minute teamfights without a farm/level advantage and Duel stacks. OO has high optimal-case damage, but can be wildly unpredictable depending on how the fight is positioned and in the average case has far less damage output than most other Strength hero AoE nukes because of it's long CD (a Tiny or Magnus will easily get several Tosses/Shockwaves in a fight, but OO's CD is such that it's very questionable to get a 2nd one off). PtA similarly has a long CD compared to the spells you will be using it to deal with except in exceptional cases involving certain heroes and by and large shines as a lategame skill to protect and buff a carry who also uses the attack speed component. She has no non-ult disable, and her ult is heavily range-limited. On December 31 2013 17:18 Skyro wrote: And you don't need blink to be effective in team fights. You can support from the back with OO and PtA to cleanse, then run in and duel at the opportune time. OO has far longer cooldown than similar AoE nukes on Strength heroes, and PtA only really shines midgame against big single-target disables (e.g. Primal Roar or Fiend's Grip). Otherwise, it's CD is far longer than most of the spells you're using it to negate. People love to compare PtA to Abaddon's shield, but Abaddon's Shield has a 6s CD, which is LESS than most nukes/stuns that have CDs in the range of 10-12s, so you're getting a lot of value out of it to negate spells that are longer CD/higher value. This isn't the case with PtA because PtA for the most part has a much LONGER CD than the spells you're negating. So unless it's mid-lategame where the AS buff becomes more powerful on a carry with high damage, or you're using it to remove a high-value big disable, it's not exactly a stellar teamfight skill. Again, if you do not snowball off of Duel, her kit is not better than any other Strength hero that has better nukes, better team utility skills, better farming power, and better lategame development. | ||
Kemy
105 Posts
On December 31 2013 08:38 TheWestWind wrote: So I have been playing a few games of LC, you know, just down in the trenches. http://dotabuff.com/matches/447331397 I started this game with a quick 0-2-3-0 jungle blink dagger. Then I transitioned into some feeding. The duels I was picking..... I did go into phase boots and then straight into AC - I figured as long as i was dueling the doom first i could skip the bkb. The gold graph showed dire was down at least 15 K gold at one point. Which is about when i did decide to stack damage and attack speed instead of more defensive/team oriented items. I hadn't planned on being the carry for our team but i guess it sorta worked out that way at the end. Just hang back in the teamfights until it seems like I can turn the tide with a quick duel victory. It was a pretty close game - i got 6 slotted going battlefury last. What do you think about that item on LC? Is heart or butterfly better? Battlefury in general is an item that allows you to farm faster. You dont primarily get it for fighting because the cleave is at best situationally useful in fights. Thus, it is a pretty bad pick as your last item. Additionally, the cleave is disabled in duels. Butterfly doesnt offer much either. The evasion is disabled in duels and even if you want evasion heavens halberd just fits the hero better and the active is pretty good lategame. One could argue if Daedalus is worth it or not. The crit portion is disabled in duels but it increases your dmg significantly while just rightclicking. More standard lategame item choices are Desolator, Heart, Abyssal and Halberd depending on the enemy threats. | ||
TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
On December 31 2013 04:33 Ramiz1989 wrote: But he didn't say that Blink Dagger is a waste, he said that it is bad to play her as Initiation hero because most of the time you will just die and that you need assistance from your team if you really want to initiate. I totally misinterpreted that post then | ||
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 31 2013 22:31 TomatoBisque wrote: I totally misinterpreted that post then Well, yeah his way of expressing it was kind of confusing, but I understood what he meant. | ||
BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Basically you want to not have to run around everywhere and waste time. | ||
BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On January 02 2014 06:57 PiPoGevy wrote: Can you bkb out of her ulti ? You can't use items in her ulti(duel) and duel is BKB piercing. | ||
Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On January 05 2014 02:45 Oktyabr wrote: Just noticed that if rubick steals duel and uses it on someone else, the winner doesn't get damage even if rubick loses. Is this intended? It shouldn't be. | ||
Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
It is intended for sure. | ||
TomatoShark
United States288 Posts
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