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@konadora,
you need a blink/lothars to get in close to duel, your duel doesn't really have the biggest range to initiate. you can lane if you can safelane or mid with her. but often you can free up space for other hero's to get exp/farm if you go jungle, and she is really good at jungling. a stack of tango's, quelling blade and stout shield is all you need without ever going to base. but in a coordinated teamgame, she is best put in safelane so she can farm really fast and focus more on damage instead of survivability ( i.e. maxing different skills )
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maybe the first and second duel you won't get too many counter attacks, but once you get into teamfights more and more, you get hit by all hero's not just 1 so then higher level moc really shines.
i've been going threads, blink blademail, then towards heart. i personally think phase is sub optimal, because thread switching is really good on her. also the str you get from threads result into damage+hp (which phase don't give), so it's not a 24 damage difference but way less. the extra attack speed is still usefull, you naturally build damage from your duels, so every attack speed you get makes your dps skyrocket. the hero is really usefull outside duels if you get attack speed
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I'm not sure why people say shadowblade is not good on Legion. I think people forget that before legion can tank carries she is first and foremost a SUPPORT KILLER. The shadowblade allows you to roam effectively and get those support kills or kill any stragglers you catch out of the "pack". I have played over 50 games with legion now and 1 constant that I have found is that HoD is AMAZING on Legion. The lifesteal stacks with the passive and it works with Mjollnir except for when Mjollnir chains. People will say that damage is more important than attack speed with legion but I disagree with that. The faster you hit the fasterthe duel is over and the faster you get the bonus dmg.
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Looks like I wasted my breath here, after all, LC haven put into CM mode yet... all ppl here is all about shadow/blinkDagger OPPORTUNISTIc Dueler...
Summary of my point for LC:
Tank => get stacks => survive and further contribute damage again.
Opportunistic Duels is way too ideal in CM mode/5v5 team match(allpick or not).
Out of 10 games in average, 9 games of Blink/SB LC always lose due to no hp/exp/gold and died after duel(winner or not), left 1 games which is overfed OR 4v5 which LC is unnecessary.
But someone did point out 1 items which is almost a must for sustaining the hp in teamfights => which is HoD lifeleech
Guess I am the only minority here.
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On December 29 2013 02:57 reyavalon wrote:
Looks like I wasted my breath here, after all, LC haven put into CM mode yet... all ppl here is all about shadow/blinkDagger OPPORTUNISTIc Dueler...
Summary of my point for LC:
Tank => get stacks => survive and further contribute damage again.
Opportunistic Duels is way too ideal in CM mode/5v5 team match(allpick or not).
Out of 10 games in average, 9 games of Blink/SB LC always lose due to no hp/exp/gold and died after duel(winner or not), left 1 games which is overfed OR 4v5 which LC is unnecessary.
But someone did point out 1 items which is almost a must for sustaining the hp in teamfights => which is HoD lifeleech
Guess I am the only minority here.
Lifeleech is aweful without damage and damage resistance.
You're talking about "Soul ring + drums versus blink + armlet" when both are awful as hell.
-Jungle
--->Blink
-Get duel stacks (since you synergize insanely well with heroes that have high damage and sometimes lack just a bit of cc for solo kills - which is stuff that gets played in pubs a lot)
--->BKB
-During teamfights use your BKB uptime as a strong BKB piercing disable or to take out high priority squishy targets.
--->AC
-Enjoy being a badass.
Shadowblade is a reasonable substitute for Blink, you're increasing your solo ganking power but you weaken your ability in teamfights later on. Basically if you feel the need for the extra damage from Lothars it's a shitty game to be LC in the first place since the damage from your team and/or gank opportunities seem to be lacking.
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United States47024 Posts
reyavalon I have no idea why you think it's impossible to execute ganks in the 6-10 minute range without getting counter-killed. Successful ganks of this nature happen all the time even in professional play. It's entirely a matter of execution and knowing where supports are on the map. Duel lasts 4 seconds, TP channels are 3. It's simply not possible for supports to counter-gank a proper Duel gank unless they already TPed down beforehand. In which case, 1) you are drawing their supports away from other parts of the map, and 2) you should be able to evaluate their map movement based on where they are not.
Obviously don't dive into obvious counter-ganks, but honestly, supports don't have perfect vision and can't be everywhere at once. You WILL get successful ganks if you know how to look for them.
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On December 29 2013 03:26 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 02:57 reyavalon wrote:
Looks like I wasted my breath here, after all, LC haven put into CM mode yet... all ppl here is all about shadow/blinkDagger OPPORTUNISTIc Dueler...
Summary of my point for LC:
Tank => get stacks => survive and further contribute damage again.
Opportunistic Duels is way too ideal in CM mode/5v5 team match(allpick or not).
Out of 10 games in average, 9 games of Blink/SB LC always lose due to no hp/exp/gold and died after duel(winner or not), left 1 games which is overfed OR 4v5 which LC is unnecessary.
But someone did point out 1 items which is almost a must for sustaining the hp in teamfights => which is HoD lifeleech
Guess I am the only minority here. Lifeleech is aweful without damage and damage resistance. You're talking about "Soul ring + drums versus blink + armlet" when both are awful as hell. -Jungle --->Blink -Get duel stacks (since you synergize insanely well with heroes that have high damage and sometimes lack just a bit of cc for solo kills - which is stuff that gets played in pubs a lot) --->BKB -During teamfights use your BKB uptime as a strong BKB piercing disable or to take out high priority squishy targets. --->AC -Enjoy being a badass. Shadowblade is a reasonable substitute for Blink, you're increasing your solo ganking power but you weaken your ability in teamfights later on. Basically if you feel the need for the extra damage from Lothars it's a shitty game to be LC in the first place since the damage from your team and/or gank opportunities seem to be lacking.
You have totally no idea how MoC works. LC need hp capacity + ASPD to works with MoC, since she never having any damage issue from beginning.
You guys all talking about damage stacks again, none of you talking how to survive from nukes when dueling.
blink + bkb + AC => how mcuh gold needed? where is your basic core items? Since LC need to snowball from beginning? Any carry fares a lot better than LC when it comes to these 3 items as core. The side effect of 4 sec BKB on LC is more severe than any Carry. Think about it.
On December 29 2013 03:33 TheYango wrote:
reyavalon I have no idea why you think it's impossible to execute ganks in the 6-10 minute range without getting counter-killed. Successful ganks of this nature happen all the time even in professional play. It's entirely a matter of execution and knowing where supports are on the map. Duel lasts 4 seconds, TP channels are 3. It's simply not possible for supports to counter-gank a proper Duel gank unless they already TPed down beforehand. In which case, 1) you are drawing their supports away from other parts of the map, and 2) you should be able to evaluate their map movement based on where they are not.
Obviously don't dive into obvious counter-ganks, but honestly, supports don't have perfect vision and can't be everywhere at once. You WILL get successful ganks if you know how to look for them.
Do you actually read my posts or just simply take parts of it starting to take the jump?
Gank in 6-10 mins without getting counter killed is alright with me, but execute ganks with blink daggers, within 10 mins, thats the problem. blink/SB LC have simply no other usage and no HP to sustain the ganks.
Good team even in all pick,
1. their supports never alone.
2. their carries/core never insensitive when there are more than 2 heroes disappear on mini-maps.
3. They never TPing on the towers which under opposite heroes vision.
4. Proper Duel is still easily counterable.
5. When duelling, LC is very vulnerable to AOE disable and AOE damage, which is why LC need to tank quite a bit. and thats approach not really recommended from my side, my point is TANK before Duel, not during Duel.
6. Those 2 points and last paragraph you mentioned, well I can say that, you are optimistic and assuming that, your supports and your ganks is better than their side, but I prefer to assume opposite team are good in roaming and ganking.
During a proper teamfights, blink/SB LC always dies after duel(winner or not) due to not enough hp, you getting that 10/14/18 damage with a huge price of exp and gold.
a LC survived a duel with red hp, and flee from fights, not really useful for team at all.
a LC got her stacks after a Duel but DIED and lose exp and gold, not really useful for team at all.
Whats LC's job is, LC snowballs her damage when survive from nukes before/after Duel with plenty of hp, and protect their teammates.
You might wonder why I hate blink dagger/SB on LC so much, The survivability having soul ring + tread + even bracer with cloak, its much better than blink duel damage stacks, during early-to-mid, given the amount of gold spent and the ease of building these items.
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Blink within 6-8 minutes. You then proceed to aim for ganks whenever you have your ult up, get free damage and casually farm the jungle during downtime. It's not exactly hard to have Treads/Blink/BKB done when teamfights start to break out, especially in pubs.
You're making arguments about how you can't get kills against "good teams even in all pick" when no one ever talks about solo kills. You grab whoever the fuck has burst on your team and/or controls tempo usually and go kill shit with them. Prime examples being things like QoP/TA/Storm/Clock who all enjoy that "little extra" in terms of damage and cc to kill even major targets. During downtime you're always off the map so that's not even an issue.
Who the hell cares about AoE disables and AoE nukes during a 2n1 or even better scenarios? Absolute worst case you... take damage from autoattacks during duel and after 3s someone shows up to help the guy that's being banged by your cc+autos and your buddies burst+autos.
By the time AoE stuff is relevant and full 5n5 fights can break out you have a BKB for those which means proper usage of Duel won't get you randomly killed. LC HAS to snowball off ganks to be a relevant solo kill threat later down the road.
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On December 29 2013 12:56 r.Evo wrote:
Blink within 6-8 minutes. You then proceed to aim for ganks whenever you have your ult up, get free damage and casually farm the jungle during downtime. It's not exactly hard to have Treads/Blink/BKB done when teamfights start to break out, especially in pubs.
You're making arguments about how you can't get kills against "good teams even in all pick" when no one ever talks about solo kills. You grab whoever the fuck has burst on your team and/or controls tempo usually and go kill shit with them. Prime examples being things like QoP/TA/Storm/Clock who all enjoy that "little extra" in terms of damage and cc to kill even major targets. During downtime you're always off the map so that's not even an issue.
Who the hell cares about AoE disables and AoE nukes during a 2n1 or even better scenarios? Absolute worst case you... take damage from autoattacks during duel and after 3s someone shows up to help the guy that's being banged by your cc+autos and your buddies burst+autos.
By the time AoE stuff is relevant and full 5n5 fights can break out you have a BKB for those which means proper usage of Duel won't get you randomly killed. LC HAS to snowball off ganks to be a relevant solo kill threat later down the road.
Nevermind, you play your LC in semi-carry/hard-carry way, yea those BKB stuffs, a lot of carries farm faster and scales a lot better with items than LC anyway.
The process you explain far too dazzling and too relaxing for me, given current meta... Everything you assume is very perfectly executed without any retaliation...
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On December 29 2013 12:32 reyavalon wrote:
During a proper teamfights, blink/SB LC always dies after duel(winner or not) due to not enough hp, you getting that 10/14/18 damage with a huge price of exp and gold.
a LC survived a duel with red hp, and flee from fights, not really useful for team at all.
a LC got her stacks after a Duel but DIED and lose exp and gold, not really useful for team at all.
I think that's where you're wrong.
If a LC blinks in, ults, wins the duel and then dies it may in fact be very very good for the team. Both teams have lost a player, in the best case you traded your LC for the enemy carry who got nothing out of that fight because he/she died first, while the LC got xp/gold and dmg stacks and your own carry has free reign over the enemy team.
On December 29 2013 12:32 reyavalon wrote:
Whats LC's job is, LC snowballs her damage when survive from nukes before/after Duel with plenty of hp, and protect their teammates.
You might wonder why I hate blink dagger/SB on LC so much, The survivability having soul ring + tread + even bracer with cloak, its much better than blink duel damage stacks, during early-to-mid, given the amount of gold spent and the ease of building these items.
I think LC's job is not to primarily do dmg with her autoattacks (there are a lot of heroes who can do that better) but to use her insane disable to win the teamfight outright. Obviously it is not about some kamikaze action but similar to enigma or earthshaker where you wait for the right moment to initiate or change the outcome of the fight.
LC shouldn't be the main carry even though she definitely has the potential to snowball extremely hard. All the hero has going for her is the ult and blink dagger is exactly what she needs to enable the full potential of the ult. Early you can easily gank any lane with a blink and/or grab some last second duellstacks and open the potential for a snowball victory, later you can render 1 guy of the enemy team completely useless for a very long duration. And dont tell me that you cant pull off ganks as a LC with blink... if the fastest initiation coupled with the longest disable and even decent dmg are not enough to gank then no ganks would ever happen in this game.
BKB is very nice too because it removes all magic dmg and makes autoattacks the only way to deal with LC and a LC which isn't lightyears behind in farm can only be happy to be attacked by as many ppl as possible while dueling due to the additional procs.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 29 2013 21:47 reyavalon wrote:
Nevermind, you play your LC in semi-carry/hard-carry way, yea those BKB stuffs, a lot of carries farm faster and scales a lot better with items than LC anyway.
The process you explain far too dazzling and too relaxing for me, given current meta... Everything you assume is very perfectly executed without any retaliation...
Actually, no, it's quite the opposite. A Blink-first LC has far greater impact on the game earlier than an SR+Drums LC.
The moment you have your Blink, the enemy team basically has to react to how you play. Even if you are just farming your jungle, if you've showed with TP+Smoke in inventory, the enemy team has to play as if you could gank, because a hero with TP+Smoke can gank any of the 3 lanes in ~10s without ever passing a ward. The supports basically can't pull creeps in this scenario (very punishing at this timing because 6-10 minutes is where supports want to start catching up levels and getting their basic items once their early game support item duties are fulfilled) and if they do, its an opening to gank because if the supports are pulling, they cannot be in position to countergank their off-lane or mid.
You talk about things being too ideal, but you know what's too ideal? Ever getting a successful Duel gank without Blink as an instant engage. It's far harder to Duel gank without getting counter-ganked because having to have someone else engage first and having to run in means it's longer before you Duel them, longer before you kill them, which means more time for other enemy players to TP countergank. A no-Blink LC cannot gank nearly as effectively. It is somewhat stronger come teamfights assuming equal items (you won't have equal items because Blink LC's map pressure denies farming space to the enemy), but an LC with early fighting items and no Duel stacks is still not a good teamfighter. The reason you need the Duel snowball is because with 0 stacks Duel, even if you choose to get fighting items, you're a worse version of any other tanky melee Strength hero that does more damage, has more baseline defensive ability, and has more disables.
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I prefer Shadow Blade over Blink Dagger. Dagger gives no stats, and it can be disabled by attacks, while shadowblade gives dmg and attack speed.
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Hello TL!
I played 10 Legion Commander games yesterday and lost all 10 of them. However, the games all helped my understanding of the hero immensely and I clearly got better at LC throughout all of them.
Here are my observations:
Only 2 of the games I went negative, and those games the team was really stomped. Legion Commander is great at K/D Ratio, but that doesn't win her games.
People think Ursa is a counter to LC, he is not. Just avoid ursa like the plague until blademail. The real counter to LC are teamfight ults like Shadow Shaman or Warlock or Witch Doctor. LC is bad at pushing and teamfights, these supports make Dota hell for her.
If you are jungling, it is really hard to snowball if the lane next to the jungle is losing/feeding. You have to convince the rest of the team to come gank, because LC with blink/Treads and bracer will not solve a losing lane.
If you get a lot of duel ganks, the burden of proof is now on you to push. If you don't turn the danage into towers, you lose.
If you duel and get kills just after the duel, it's good for your team, but you still basically are stopped from snowballing. It sucks.
Legion Commander has ridiculous problems with high ground pushing, yet like I said she needs to convert her early game duel snowball into towers because farming is advantageous to the other team. Any advice here?
Item Progression:
Jungle: Blink-->Treads--->BKB or Blademail--> AC if no one is making-->Heart?
If you get a lane: Be a bit aggressive like Axe and Treads--->Armlet--->Blademail--->AC---->Heart has been good.
Reasons not to get Blink:
You have a mirana on your team that can ult you in
You have an Axe on your team with Blink
You laned. It's just weird to get blink if you lane.
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On December 30 2013 06:34 Bippzy wrote:
Hello TL!
I played 10 Legion Commander games yesterday and lost all 10 of them. However, the games all helped my understanding of the hero immensely and I clearly got better at LC throughout all of them.
Here are my observations:
Only 2 of the games I went negative, and those games the team was really stomped. Legion Commander is great at K/D Ratio, but that doesn't win her games.
People think Ursa is a counter to LC, he is not. Just avoid ursa like the plague until blademail. The real counter to LC are teamfight ults like Shadow Shaman or Warlock or Witch Doctor. LC is bad at pushing and teamfights, these supports make Dota hell for her.
If you are jungling, it is really hard to snowball if the lane next to the jungle is losing/feeding. You have to convince the rest of the team to come gank, because LC with blink/Treads and bracer will not solve a losing lane.
If you get a lot of duel ganks, the burden of proof is now on you to push. If you don't turn the danage into towers, you lose.
If you duel and get kills just after the duel, it's good for your team, but you still basically are stopped from snowballing. It sucks.
Legion Commander has ridiculous problems with high ground pushing, yet like I said she needs to convert her early game duel snowball into towers because farming is advantageous to the other team. Any advice here?
Item Progression:
Jungle: Blink-->Treads--->BKB or Blademail--> AC if no one is making-->Heart?
If you get a lane: Be a bit aggressive like Axe and Treads--->Armlet--->Blademail--->AC---->Heart has been good.
Reasons not to get Blink:
You have a mirana on your team that can ult you in
You have an Axe on your team with Blink
You laned. It's just weird to get blink if you lane.
If you duel ursa he loses fury swipes (and vlads). No idea why people think he's a counter to LC. He can kill her if he is not the one who gets dueled but so can many other heroes. For all other counters you listed you can get bkb.
I really don't like the "I have to build as tanky as possible" focus most people have when they play LC. Especially if you get a good chunk of dmg from duelwins it proved to be way more effective just to go AC and Deso or Abyssal (after blink, bkb) instead of stuff like blademail or heart. The more dmg you do the more tanky you get due to the ridicolous amount of lifesteal you get from your passive and the faster you can eliminate a threat of their team. And it's so much fun to have like 300-500 dmg with -12 armor.
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On December 30 2013 00:58 Kemy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 12:32 reyavalon wrote:
During a proper teamfights, blink/SB LC always dies after duel(winner or not) due to not enough hp, you getting that 10/14/18 damage with a huge price of exp and gold.
a LC survived a duel with red hp, and flee from fights, not really useful for team at all.
a LC got her stacks after a Duel but DIED and lose exp and gold, not really useful for team at all.
I think that's where you're wrong. If a LC blinks in, ults, wins the duel and then dies it may in fact be very very good for the team. Both teams have lost a player, in the best case you traded your LC for the enemy carry who got nothing out of that fight because he/she died first, while the LC got xp/gold and dmg stacks and your own carry has free reign over the enemy team. Show nested quote +On December 29 2013 12:32 reyavalon wrote:
Whats LC's job is, LC snowballs her damage when survive from nukes before/after Duel with plenty of hp, and protect their teammates.
You might wonder why I hate blink dagger/SB on LC so much, The survivability having soul ring + tread + even bracer with cloak, its much better than blink duel damage stacks, during early-to-mid, given the amount of gold spent and the ease of building these items.
I think LC's job is not to primarily do dmg with her autoattacks (there are a lot of heroes who can do that better) but to use her insane disable to win the teamfight outright. Obviously it is not about some kamikaze action but similar to enigma or earthshaker where you wait for the right moment to initiate or change the outcome of the fight. LC shouldn't be the main carry even though she definitely has the potential to snowball extremely hard. All the hero has going for her is the ult and blink dagger is exactly what she needs to enable the full potential of the ult. Early you can easily gank any lane with a blink and/or grab some last second duellstacks and open the potential for a snowball victory, later you can render 1 guy of the enemy team completely useless for a very long duration. And dont tell me that you cant pull off ganks as a LC with blink... if the fastest initiation coupled with the longest disable and even decent dmg are not enough to gank then no ganks would ever happen in this game. BKB is very nice too because it removes all magic dmg and makes autoattacks the only way to deal with LC and a LC which isn't lightyears behind in farm can only be happy to be attacked by as many ppl as possible while dueling due to the additional procs.
Your first reply:
You trade 1 hero with your LC? This is why your team lose, this mindset cause the 80% of the games lost as far as I watched. And how sure are you able to blinks-in and Duel the carry? LC doesnt really scare dps heroes, she is more vulnerable to nukes under duel. You can say the same to the Duel target, but LC's fight does not really end at duel, she still needs lots of HP to fight against the team.
Yesterday I just saw a game, a LC stacked 400 damage, SB + Blink, AC, other damage item etc. But she is quickly killed by a sniper with lesser items. Why? In front of enemy team formation, her blink is useless. Blink is for those who can easily disrupt the whole enemy team while keeping self safe from harm such as puck. Blink with lasso is for batrider who can easily forcestaff back into own team zone. Even batrider with blink also easily countered. Example: OD. Don't ask me how OD can make your LC feeds. Its so obvious that your approach is too focus on Duel instead of survive and tank for your teammates.
You 2nd reply:
All my points mentioned never play LC as carry, she is a pure self-sustaining tanker.
I stopped reading when you use LC as initiator with blink. I only support LC duel with red hp enemies to get damage stacks.
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On December 30 2013 06:34 Bippzy wrote:
Hello TL!
I played 10 Legion Commander games yesterday and lost all 10 of them. However, the games all helped my understanding of the hero immensely and I clearly got better at LC throughout all of them.
Here are my observations:
Only 2 of the games I went negative, and those games the team was really stomped. Legion Commander is great at K/D Ratio, but that doesn't win her games.
People think Ursa is a counter to LC, he is not. Just avoid ursa like the plague until blademail. The real counter to LC are teamfight ults like Shadow Shaman or Warlock or Witch Doctor. LC is bad at pushing and teamfights, these supports make Dota hell for her.
If you are jungling, it is really hard to snowball if the lane next to the jungle is losing/feeding. You have to convince the rest of the team to come gank, because LC with blink/Treads and bracer will not solve a losing lane.
If you get a lot of duel ganks, the burden of proof is now on you to push. If you don't turn the danage into towers, you lose.
If you duel and get kills just after the duel, it's good for your team, but you still basically are stopped from snowballing. It sucks.
Legion Commander has ridiculous problems with high ground pushing, yet like I said she needs to convert her early game duel snowball into towers because farming is advantageous to the other team. Any advice here?
Item Progression:
Jungle: Blink-->Treads--->BKB or Blademail--> AC if no one is making-->Heart?
If you get a lane: Be a bit aggressive like Axe and Treads--->Armlet--->Blademail--->AC---->Heart has been good.
Reasons not to get Blink:
You have a mirana on your team that can ult you in
You have an Axe on your team with Blink
You laned. It's just weird to get blink if you lane.
Agree with you on LC stacked damage is mostly use for pushing, this hero is similar to SVEN in pushing. Should let your teammates to do the disable for you.
I always lane mid with soul ring at ease, I gank with teammates without relying too much on Duel, after stacked more than 5-7 duel stacks, I will become a pusher and semi-dpser with tons of HP with hood of defiance. This is how I win every LC games I played, provided my teammates provided sufficient supports.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Main problem of LC - not using duels sometimes totally, because it's totally unreal and he becomes absolutely irrelevant in addition to being absolutely useless while dueling because Valve and Icefrog don't wanna him and his target be immune to everything like it was in original dota. I dunno why, but after releasing of Earth Spirit i can't be surprised by anything.
Why can't he use duels? First, it's not first day of LC in DotA 2. Second and main part - LC's biggest strength (and only strength except farming and free purge) - isolating targets, preferably hardcore carries from other team. But here's one big problem. I hadn't seen teams, farming 50 minutes as solo laners and just feeding in forest for a long time. Instead of it there are just 5-man pushes and LC is completely useless in these situations.
Now let's discuss positive sides or advantages.
First, he's amazing in laning phase with his smooth animation.
Second, he's amazing splitpusher not only because almost permanent Alchemist's ultimate but also dat counterattacking towers, which makes myself feel bad for towers when LC in my team is pushing lane in 1 minute.
Third, dat horn sound is ridiculously op if u're sleeping while playing because you will never fall asleep.
No more advantages except...
Fourth - you have chance to get free damage if you're playing solo mm without anyone being stack. Useful thing to do but i've never done it :D
Fifth - you have free taunt so duel can be used onto bkb targets.
Some item builds.
Dagger >>>> Lothar on LC.
Not only because i highly recommend to skip lothar for all heroes and get dagger but also - when you're playing against smartass teams and not bunch of solo retards, they will gank your lane or your forest 24/7 with dusts/sentries/gem. Also it helps in instant initiations when you know that IT'S YOUR MOMENT TO SHINE. Don't forget to press bkb at least.
BKB - must have after dagger. Even before sometimes, same shit as Slardar/TA for example. If you're getting roflstomped - get bkb, it will provide something at least instead of wasting 3k gold into nothing just because they have dust for 180 gold.
For boots - highly recommend pt, phase are irrelevant here because you have nuff damage, also ias helps i heard and it's free 190 health for your horse.
Some situational items:
Rare situation of LC roflstomping by himself - go for desolator/basher/abyssal. Noone shall pass through the power of horse and horn.
Not rare situations of LC being roflstomped - after you got tricore of pt/dagger/bkb, focus yourself on getting some more sustain. Assault Cuirass, Basher, even Heart of Tarrasque sometimes - it helps, trust me. More you stand in fight - more chance to counterattack, more chance to aggro enemies just to deploy power of horn and die with pride or win.
Also situational:
- Daedalus (Buriza) - it's late item for you, because if u're winning with LC, game usually ends at ~25 minute mark, if u're getting stomped, it's better to look above and check previous statements.
- Butterfly/Halberd - highly recommending it when you're playing against fucking Slark and some more annoying dps like PA, just because she can crit you in this version of dota in duel.
- MKB - again, if you're playing against PA or you're single carry in team (even if i'm not considering LC as carry, only semi-carry as highest)
- Hex/Linkens. Something about hex - it's good always, especially if you lack cc in team and noone wants to build it because they have midases/dps items on qop/etc.
About Linken's Sphere. Personally i hate when people build bkb and linken on single hero. It's fucking bad and waste of gold. Especially when you're building manta as well. It's almost 10k of gold into dump because main target of all 3 items - SUR-VI-VA-BI-LI-TY. NO NEED IN OVERRATING IT. Noone will use 20 skills just to kill someone, if he can't kill them all instantly. And with bkb/linkens/manta you can't do shit with every hero except Morphling probably just because he's water. Manta Style also works pretty well on LC.
- Armlet - it's pretty situational, you can get it before bkb if you're snowballing but i don't recommend it. And buying it after tricore, which will be probably at ~25-30minute mark - armlet is not best item for that stage of the game.
About skillbuilds.
E one time on 4th, max W on farming lanes, max Q on solo mid/solo easy 1v1 against melee. - lane LC.
Same stuff in forest, except thing that you can max E and get Q once, but be ready to be buttraped by soul train with wards. So react fast and furiously.
Let the horse and horn power be with you.
AND ALWAYS BRING TP, IT WORTHS MORE THAN ANY OF OTHER ITEMS.
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On December 30 2013 11:35 reyavalon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2013 00:58 Kemy wrote:On December 29 2013 12:32 reyavalon wrote:
During a proper teamfights, blink/SB LC always dies after duel(winner or not) due to not enough hp, you getting that 10/14/18 damage with a huge price of exp and gold.
a LC survived a duel with red hp, and flee from fights, not really useful for team at all.
a LC got her stacks after a Duel but DIED and lose exp and gold, not really useful for team at all.
I think that's where you're wrong. If a LC blinks in, ults, wins the duel and then dies it may in fact be very very good for the team. Both teams have lost a player, in the best case you traded your LC for the enemy carry who got nothing out of that fight because he/she died first, while the LC got xp/gold and dmg stacks and your own carry has free reign over the enemy team. On December 29 2013 12:32 reyavalon wrote:
Whats LC's job is, LC snowballs her damage when survive from nukes before/after Duel with plenty of hp, and protect their teammates.
You might wonder why I hate blink dagger/SB on LC so much, The survivability having soul ring + tread + even bracer with cloak, its much better than blink duel damage stacks, during early-to-mid, given the amount of gold spent and the ease of building these items.
I think LC's job is not to primarily do dmg with her autoattacks (there are a lot of heroes who can do that better) but to use her insane disable to win the teamfight outright. Obviously it is not about some kamikaze action but similar to enigma or earthshaker where you wait for the right moment to initiate or change the outcome of the fight. LC shouldn't be the main carry even though she definitely has the potential to snowball extremely hard. All the hero has going for her is the ult and blink dagger is exactly what she needs to enable the full potential of the ult. Early you can easily gank any lane with a blink and/or grab some last second duellstacks and open the potential for a snowball victory, later you can render 1 guy of the enemy team completely useless for a very long duration. And dont tell me that you cant pull off ganks as a LC with blink... if the fastest initiation coupled with the longest disable and even decent dmg are not enough to gank then no ganks would ever happen in this game. BKB is very nice too because it removes all magic dmg and makes autoattacks the only way to deal with LC and a LC which isn't lightyears behind in farm can only be happy to be attacked by as many ppl as possible while dueling due to the additional procs. Your first reply: You trade 1 hero with your LC? This is why your team lose, this mindset cause the 80% of the games lost as far as I watched. And how sure are you able to blinks-in and Duel the carry? LC doesnt really scare dps heroes, she is more vulnerable to nukes under duel. You can say the same to the Duel target, but LC's fight does not really end at duel, she still needs lots of HP to fight against the team. Yesterday I just saw a game, a LC stacked 400 damage, SB + Blink, AC, other damage item etc. But she is quickly killed by a sniper with lesser items. Why? In front of enemy team formation, her blink is useless. Blink is for those who can easily disrupt the whole enemy team while keeping self safe from harm such as puck. Blink with lasso is for batrider who can easily forcestaff back into own team zone. Even batrider with blink also easily countered. Example: OD. Don't ask me how OD can make your LC feeds. Its so obvious that your approach is too focus on Duel instead of survive and tank for your teammates. You 2nd reply: All my points mentioned never play LC as carry, she is a pure self-sustaining tanker. I stopped reading when you use LC as initiator with blink. I only support LC duel with red hp enemies to get damage stacks.
First of all you have no idea how many games i win or lose. I played close to 40 games and have a reasonable winrate for soloqueue.
I did not say that my goal is to trade 1 for 1 but that it may still be beneficial to trade if you take out a key hero of the enemy team and win the duel. And yes i think that dps heroes should be very afraid of an LC because a 4-6 second lockdown is scary. And please stop talking about those big nukes which are so easily countered by BKB. The only one who has to be afraid of nukes is your target...
How sure I am to get the carry? Well how sure are you to make correct plays and decisions? Succeeding or failing is the game however you play.
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Id love for somebody to explain to me how soul ring makes you more tankier
reyavalon plz i needz your help
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On December 30 2013 20:31 Darkren wrote:
Id love for somebody to explain to me how soul ring makes you more tankier
reyavalon plz i needz your help
The horn of gondor saves LC in dire times...
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I wonder if half of the posters here even played more than 5 games with LC. I played 24 games with a bad wr ratio and tried different things, I can say that half of the posts are just theory crafting.
I wonder why you want to team fight with LC at all.
I wonder why do you want to blink & insta-duel at all.
The hero is all about killing early game and being better in skill/item timings. She is mostly a jungler/ganker most of the time and snowballs really fast with early duel kills.
It is useless to argue on why LC lost games after stealing 200+ damage for 40+ minute games.
She is very similar to jungle batrider in early game. Before blink or any other initiation item she is useless. After that you need to rely on lane partners to secure duel kills, since most of the time you cannot kill a semi-tank hero with duel and other skills alone. You need some burst or proper right clicks from other heroes.
In the mid game probably you can kill squishy heroes alone and on par with better ones. Again you need some kind of assistance most of the time.
Late game is all about positioning, CC spells and execution. Blink duel = death. You need to choose either rescue your carry or disable an enemy at this time. LC shouldn't be played as an initiator imo.
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EPT
