6.82 Balance Changes and Discussion Thread - Page 112

On October 02 2014 04:23 Sn0_Man wrote:
?
Void's merely solid now, tinker's literally unpickable in pro play and pretty questionable in pubs. DP definitely was stronger and got less nerfs than either of those 2 heroes.

On October 02 2014 05:53 Fleetfeet wrote:


Is he really that bad?

I feel like there was an era where eblade/dagon wasn't his only lategame option, and blink/shivas/hex was reasonably common and still effective. Obviously his nerfs hurt him a lot but I don't think "questionable in pubs" is necessarily true. Well, no more so than any other specialist hero like meepo / earth spirit.

On October 02 2014 06:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:


Once upon a time, E-Blade/Dagon was considered the inferior build by many pro players. Back then (and it wasn't very long ago) Arteezy argued that Blink/Hex/Bloodstone was superior because it gave you stronger map presence via farming, while still providing reliable disable for initiation and disengagement. Not everyone agreed with him, but E-Blade/Dagon was by no means the default option. It was one out of many.

On October 02 2014 06:13 rabidch wrote:
rtz went dagon after hex, not bloodstone. he only experimented with bloodstone for a short period of time. and blink is standard on tinker.

let me explicate my past claim about bloodstone being the best item; i think unless you have a certainly crafted lineup intended to burst a hero and not slow siege i.e bloodseeker furion tinker visage +1 lineup id say dagon is better but in the most common cases bloodstone allows you to slow siege and ensure safety in team fights. its really impossible to deal with unless you jump the tinker who should have a BKB in the first place if being jumped out of position

regardless of the game and composition you have or are against, you definitely need to get a hex <23 minutes for bloodstone to be effective. farming patterns are the most important aspect of tinker, not the overrated perfect positioning. using marches uselessly in the first couple of minutes after BoTs is actually detrimental to tinkers development in the midgame cause getting to the areas to march is time consuming

dagon is definitely a good item; dont get me wrong. i just feel like in competitive viability the bloodstone lets you teamfight and slow siege anything while the dagon allows you to just team fight IF you position yourself correctly and most of the time it is difficult to do so. its just like in simple terms: bloodstone offers sustain and opportunity to prevent chaos to occur while dagon thrives on chaos and quick engages

On October 02 2014 06:28 CosmicSpiral wrote:


And when Arteezy experimented with Hex/Bloodstone, he was very convinced it was a superior build:







Whether or not Dagon/E-Blade was a straight-up superior build at the time, it was not considered the definitive Tinker build.

On October 02 2014 06:30 Rocket-Bear wrote:

Earth spirit is like the opposite of a specialist though idk. His damage is good, not insane like timber.
His ganking is good, not really good like bounty.
His initation is good, not as good as clock
He's somewhat tanky, but not as tanky as bristle.
His utility is good, but not as good as darkseers (sort of includes that DS gets farmed but he always does and it's a lot harder to farm as ES)
His teamfight is good, but not as press R and win the fight as phoenix.

Kaolin is like such a middle-of-the-road offlaner. He's good at everything. Wouldn't consider that a specialist type of hero.

Specialist would imply they excel at few things and suck at all the rest. Like Huskar for example. A team considering of 5 magic damage dealing heroes like Zeus and stuff would have such a hard time killing him. But he's not very good in a lot of other scenarios.

On October 02 2014 06:34 rabidch wrote:
and then he proceeded to use eblade dagon in every single TI4 game. he can say whatever he wants, but when it comes down to money then he'll use the winning build

On October 02 2014 06:40 CosmicSpiral wrote:


Which was rather ironic, as he once claimed that he would only use E-Blade/Dagon in pubs to practice his mechanics.

But the point keeps flying over your head. It's only recently that E-Blade/Dagon became the default Tinker build. Barely half a year ago, a lot of pros categorized it as a risky situational build that overly relied on snowballing because it was sorely inefficient for farming patterns. So Fleetfleet's gut was right.

On October 02 2014 06:30 Rocket-Bear wrote:

Earth spirit is like the opposite of a specialist though idk. His damage is good, not insane like timber.
His ganking is good, not really good like bounty.
His initation is good, not as good as clock
He's somewhat tanky, but not as tanky as bristle.
His utility is good, but not as good as darkseers (sort of includes that DS gets farmed but he always does and it's a lot harder to farm as ES)
His teamfight is good, but not as press R and win the fight as phoenix.

Kaolin is like such a middle-of-the-road offlaner. He's good at everything. Wouldn't consider that a specialist type of hero.

Specialist would imply they excel at few things and suck at all the rest. Like Huskar for example. A team considering of 5 magic damage dealing heroes like Zeus and stuff would have such a hard time killing him. But he's not very good in a lot of other scenarios.

On October 02 2014 10:56 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Still hate the comeback mechanic. So many games lost because 1 or 2 guy goes lone wolf when ahead. Then their Faceless Void or PA gets rich while they sucked before. Extremely frustrating.

Also why did Void not get more nerfs :X.

Fixed the AoE Gold/XP being calculated before the direct Gold/XP were given out
- Fixed Networth values only being updated once every 0.1 seconds instead of instantly whenever you get gold (affects scenarios where multiple heroes die in quick succession)