The post-TI3 Roster Shuffle thread - Page 11
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
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McTeazy
Canada297 Posts
On August 13 2013 23:43 shirtman wrote: I think that mouz needs to do a 180° turn or change their drafter / drafting. Their style is calm and calculated but in their many losses they lost their lanes badly and never got to play their game. I can't blame the players because they seem talented. Synderen can't compare to someone like Akke / EGM though. I think it would be a mistake for mouz to shuffle. They had a bad run but picking up synderen really improved them from 4 protect black to a top tier dota team. As for dignitas: Sneyking was speculating on stream that a disband might be in the works. Sounded like fogged/universe were gonna retire to focus on school stuff or something. I think aui was thinking about taking a year off school to focus on dota, but if his team all drops that may change. | ||
ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
On August 13 2013 23:53 Doomblaze wrote: do people really think navi will shuffle? They're the most successful dota team of all time and getting 2nd place at ti3 is kind of a big deal. Of course they're gonna be mad at themselves for screwing up game 5 but that will pass They shuffled after winning Ti1, they shuffled after coming 2nd at Ti2, what makes you think there won't be a shuffle after another 2nd place finish at Ti3? | ||
Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Key Points] + Funnik and Xboct departing seems more likely than Xboct/Dendi, though just Kuroky departing is most likely of all. An amazing player, brilliant DOTA mind, but it's hard to be the core of a russian team without speaking the language, and funnik/xboct were visibly strained by the situation at TI. Massive shuffles/disbands leading to an allstar NA gamble from EG seems likely (Fear/Universe/Brax/1437/Fogged would be my recipe for success), though I worry there's no strong leader to manage them. It seems to me weak mindsets continue to hamstring USA talent, and I'm not sure if anyone knows how to cure or overcome that, yet. A roster of veterans who all manage themselves and get along might just be the way. IG have lost their magic, though I think they'll have a Na'vi style shuffle rather than a complete reform. I'll make a fool of myself and say it's Chuan & Zhou who go - pure outsider perspective, but whatever. Lgd are in a similar boat. .int disbands and ddc retires are my (conservative) calls. Beyond that anything could happen - role shuffles, back-and-forth player changes, but I think the other 4 stick around one way or another. I could see lgd.int being rebooted/restructured as an SEA team, with Ice3 at the helm. This could be the way meracle and others reach their potential, though I'm not sure if Ice3's yet the type to mature talent and make them tournament winners. It didn't work for zenith this ti, no matter how well they did in scrims. Seems like a cool idea, but I don't really have faith in it working out. + Show Spoiler [Broader Outlook] + The rise of a couple CIS teams seems inevitable. I'd bet on Empire's current core as the base for one, as their growth even with standins stood out to me. Goblak and Silent may join that bunch. No idea whether the other will be VP's core with some changes, or this new 'Astara Dragons' project. I'm hoping that it's Iccup who come out strong, but really I don't know. All my esports dollars are on vanskor if he gets a new team. Looking at the rest of SEA, MUFC disbanding and Zenith rebooting seems likely. There's a ton of talent around, but not many people who can turn that talent into a tournament-winning team. Mushi's the only guy who delivered this year. Honestly, anything could happen - Orange could split in two (again), and maybe come out with two teams who perform when it counts this time, or the First Departure's of the world could step up. I see a second team being as strong as Orange, on LAN, in a year, however it happens. DK and TF stay (more-or-less) the same. Whatever else happens in China is an enigma to me. Honestly, I predict the lack of top3 ti finisher to hurt the scene more than anyone realises, with much less crowd interest/support/growth as a result. I see that continuing on to TI4, with an even weaker chinese presence. They need an Alliance-style success story to avoid stagnation, and Rattlesnake/VG aren't on track for it. I expect their best (cty, fy, lanm) to get plopped on top teams, and I think China needs to do more than that. New core teams need to be nurtured, not just individual talents, and I get the feeling the managers/veterans disagree. I hope they're right. There's great potential in the upcoming NA scene, but who knows what will happen. The return of Brax/1437 gives more hope than ever, as these two have looked so god damn good, and grown so much, in lgd.int. As far as leaders go, I don't know if there are better. They could just as easily go elsewhere, however. Others are tipping Dignitas to disband, and the matured core (fogged/universe) going elsewhere makes sense to me, so interesting things could come of that. The Korok/liquid split is believable, but I'm not sure where he'll go. He's in Fear's situation: he's incredibly good and has a clear vision of the game, but his mentality/style isn't that of a leader. Maybe he'll do what Fear couldn't, maybe he'll wind up on the NA dreamteam with the old man, maybe we'll see multiple teams with a more even split of old and young. It's a cop out, but who knows, really? Much like the USA, non-CIS Europe's a big confusing mess where a lot could happen. I want fnatic to stay together, but the world seems to be catching up to them, and I'm not sure their younger guys will keep waiting for their elders. Synderen's going to be teamless (again), and mouz is going to shuffle like nobody's business (again), unless they get complacent. Who knows what'll happen to kaipi - they could be the next Alliance, or they could fall apart after Arteezy gets booted for school, as the raw personalities clash. Alliance is going to stay together, but I'm not sold on maintaining their performance; I don't think money/'fame' is going to affect EGM/S4, but life could get to the other three. QPAD/El' Pride/all the others could make something good, but it'll take a lot of unpredictable change, and I'd wager anything great is built around the Kaipi core (mainly pieliedie). | ||
pat777
United States356 Posts
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Sherlock-Canada
Canada269 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:14 Jehct wrote: Welp, here are my thoughts/guesses, spoilered for space, even if it's ugly: + Show Spoiler [Key Points] + Funnik and Xboct departing seems more likely than Xboct/Dendi, though just Kuroky departing is most likely of all. An amazing player, brilliant DOTA mind, but it's hard to be the core of a russian team without speaking the language, and funnik/xboct were visibly strained by the situation at TI. Massive shuffles/disbands leading to an allstar NA gamble from EG seems likely (Fear/Universe/Brax/1437/Fogged would be my recipe for success), though I worry there's no strong leader to manage them. It seems to me weak mindsets continue to hamstring USA talent, and I'm not sure if anyone knows how to cure or overcome that, yet. A roster of veterans who all manage themselves and get along might just be the way. IG have lost their magic, though I think they'll have a Na'vi style shuffle rather than a complete reform. I'll make a fool of myself and say it's Chuan & Zhou who go - pure outsider perspective, but whatever. Lgd are in a similar boat. .int disbands and ddc retires are my (conservative) calls. Beyond that anything could happen - role shuffles, back-and-forth player changes, but I think the other 4 stick around one way or another. I could see lgd.int being rebooted/restructured as an SEA team, with Ice3 at the helm. This could be the way meracle and others reach their potential, though I'm not sure if Ice3's yet the type to mature talent and make them tournament winners. It didn't work for zenith this ti, no matter how well they did in scrims. Seems like a cool idea, but I don't really have faith in it working out. + Show Spoiler [Broader Outlook] + The rise of a couple CIS teams seems inevitable. I'd bet on Empire's current core as the base for one, as their growth even with standins stood out to me. Goblak and Silent may join that bunch. No idea whether the other will be VP's core with some changes, or this new 'Astara Dragons' project. I'm hoping that it's Iccup who come out strong, but really I don't know. All my esports dollars are on vanskor if he gets a new team. Looking at the rest of SEA, MUFC disbanding and Zenith rebooting seems likely. There's a ton of talent around, but not many people who can turn that talent into a tournament-winning team. Mushi's the only guy who delivered this year. Honestly, anything could happen - Orange could split in two (again), and maybe come out with two teams who perform when it counts this time, or the First Departure's of the world could step up. I see a second team being as strong as Orange, on LAN, in a year, however it happens. DK and TF stay (more-or-less) the same. Whatever else happens in China is an enigma to me. Honestly, I predict the lack of top3 ti finisher to hurt the scene more than anyone realises, with much less crowd interest/support/growth as a result. I see that continuing on to TI4, with an even weaker chinese presence. They need an Alliance-style success story to avoid stagnation, and Rattlesnake/VG aren't on track for it. I expect their best (cty, fy, lanm) to get plopped on top teams, and I think China needs to do more than that. New core teams need to be nurtured, not just individual talents, and I get the feeling the managers/veterans disagree. I hope they're right. There's great potential in the upcoming NA scene, but who knows what will happen. The return of Brax/1437 gives more hope than ever, as these two have looked so god damn good, and grown so much, in lgd.int. As far as leaders go, I don't know if there are better. They could just as easily go elsewhere, however. Others are tipping Dignitas to disband, and the matured core (fogged/universe) going elsewhere makes sense to me, so interesting things could come of that. The Korok/liquid split is believable, but I'm not sure where he'll go. He's in Fear's situation: he's incredibly good and has a clear vision of the game, but his mentality/style isn't that of a leader. Maybe he'll do what Fear couldn't, maybe he'll wind up on the NA dreamteam with the old man, maybe we'll see multiple teams with a more even split of old and young. It's a cop out, but who knows, really? Much like the USA, non-CIS Europe's a big confusing mess where a lot could happen. I want fnatic to stay together, but the world seems to be catching up to them, and I'm not sure their younger guys will keep waiting for their elders. Synderen's going to be teamless (again), and mouz is going to shuffle like nobody's business (again), unless they get complacent. Who knows what'll happen to kaipi - they could be the next Alliance, or they could fall apart after Arteezy gets booted for school, as the raw personalities clash. Alliance is going to stay together, but I'm not sold on maintaining their performance; I don't think money/'fame' is going to affect EGM/S4, but life could get to the other three. QPAD/El' Pride/all the others could make something good, but it'll take a lot of unpredictable change, and I'd wager anything great is built around the Kaipi core (mainly pieliedie). Great thoughts, and I agree with them by and large, but I think TongFu are very close to being a dominant team. More experience and maybe a small roster move and I see them doing very well. | ||
LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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smr
Germany4808 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:39 LemOn wrote: god to na'vi? I think a team form 1 country that speaks one language is best as A has shown I guess you mean kky leaves which would mean navi could communicate in russian again, but they would still have guys from 3 different countries in there ; ) | ||
Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
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Fwizzz
Philippines4420 Posts
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andyrau
13015 Posts
that would be terrible, you have 2, maybe 3 people used to being captains/giving input it's literally worse than the current lack of direction that liquid is struggling with. | ||
Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:09 ch33psh33p wrote: They shuffled after winning Ti1, they shuffled after coming 2nd at Ti2, what makes you think there won't be a shuffle after another 2nd place finish at Ti3? They only shuffled because Artstyle didn''t want to give Na'Vi a slice of his pie. They shuffled after the second international because results before and after ti2 were shotty at best. Besides the rage form hvost, the team is working together fine, and were very close to taking ti3, albeit with a sketchy game 1 draft. I don't see Na'Vi shuffling. Goblak>Kuro might be interesting however. There are no brakes on the Russian pubtrain. | ||
fascistfromhell
1689 Posts
Call me crazy, but I see Liquid hiring Aui_2000, Fogged and wts from Dignitas (if they disband) to join TC and Fluff. Monolith joins aswell as the new Dota 2 team manager. EG hires Korok, 1437, Brax and Universe to play with Fear. I really don't know if Bulba will remain a TL player. Thoughts? | ||
Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:14 Jehct wrote: Welp, here are my thoughts/guesses, spoilered for space, even if it's ugly: + Show Spoiler [Key Points] + Funnik and Xboct departing seems more likely than Xboct/Dendi, though just Kuroky departing is most likely of all. An amazing player, brilliant DOTA mind, but it's hard to be the core of a russian team without speaking the language, and funnik/xboct were visibly strained by the situation at TI. Massive shuffles/disbands leading to an allstar NA gamble from EG seems likely (Fear/Universe/Brax/1437/Fogged would be my recipe for success), though I worry there's no strong leader to manage them. It seems to me weak mindsets continue to hamstring USA talent, and I'm not sure if anyone knows how to cure or overcome that, yet. A roster of veterans who all manage themselves and get along might just be the way. IG have lost their magic, though I think they'll have a Na'vi style shuffle rather than a complete reform. I'll make a fool of myself and say it's Chuan & Zhou who go - pure outsider perspective, but whatever. Lgd are in a similar boat. .int disbands and ddc retires are my (conservative) calls. Beyond that anything could happen - role shuffles, back-and-forth player changes, but I think the other 4 stick around one way or another. I could see lgd.int being rebooted/restructured as an SEA team, with Ice3 at the helm. This could be the way meracle and others reach their potential, though I'm not sure if Ice3's yet the type to mature talent and make them tournament winners. It didn't work for zenith this ti, no matter how well they did in scrims. Seems like a cool idea, but I don't really have faith in it working out. + Show Spoiler [Broader Outlook] + The rise of a couple CIS teams seems inevitable. I'd bet on Empire's current core as the base for one, as their growth even with standins stood out to me. Goblak and Silent may join that bunch. No idea whether the other will be VP's core with some changes, or this new 'Astara Dragons' project. I'm hoping that it's Iccup who come out strong, but really I don't know. All my esports dollars are on vanskor if he gets a new team. Looking at the rest of SEA, MUFC disbanding and Zenith rebooting seems likely. There's a ton of talent around, but not many people who can turn that talent into a tournament-winning team. Mushi's the only guy who delivered this year. Honestly, anything could happen - Orange could split in two (again), and maybe come out with two teams who perform when it counts this time, or the First Departure's of the world could step up. I see a second team being as strong as Orange, on LAN, in a year, however it happens. DK and TF stay (more-or-less) the same. Whatever else happens in China is an enigma to me. Honestly, I predict the lack of top3 ti finisher to hurt the scene more than anyone realises, with much less crowd interest/support/growth as a result. I see that continuing on to TI4, with an even weaker chinese presence. They need an Alliance-style success story to avoid stagnation, and Rattlesnake/VG aren't on track for it. I expect their best (cty, fy, lanm) to get plopped on top teams, and I think China needs to do more than that. New core teams need to be nurtured, not just individual talents, and I get the feeling the managers/veterans disagree. I hope they're right. There's great potential in the upcoming NA scene, but who knows what will happen. The return of Brax/1437 gives more hope than ever, as these two have looked so god damn good, and grown so much, in lgd.int. As far as leaders go, I don't know if there are better. They could just as easily go elsewhere, however. Others are tipping Dignitas to disband, and the matured core (fogged/universe) going elsewhere makes sense to me, so interesting things could come of that. The Korok/liquid split is believable, but I'm not sure where he'll go. He's in Fear's situation: he's incredibly good and has a clear vision of the game, but his mentality/style isn't that of a leader. Maybe he'll do what Fear couldn't, maybe he'll wind up on the NA dreamteam with the old man, maybe we'll see multiple teams with a more even split of old and young. It's a cop out, but who knows, really? Much like the USA, non-CIS Europe's a big confusing mess where a lot could happen. I want fnatic to stay together, but the world seems to be catching up to them, and I'm not sure their younger guys will keep waiting for their elders. Synderen's going to be teamless (again), and mouz is going to shuffle like nobody's business (again), unless they get complacent. Who knows what'll happen to kaipi - they could be the next Alliance, or they could fall apart after Arteezy gets booted for school, as the raw personalities clash. Alliance is going to stay together, but I'm not sold on maintaining their performance; I don't think money/'fame' is going to affect EGM/S4, but life could get to the other three. QPAD/El' Pride/all the others could make something good, but it'll take a lot of unpredictable change, and I'd wager anything great is built around the Kaipi core (mainly pieliedie). Good thoughts but as far as na scene goes it sounds like jeyo will remain on eg. The other rumor is that universe is going back to eg. This leaves 2 spots. I agree the brax 1437 package would be great but then you have the rumor of korok and mike leavijg liquid. It is my understanding that korok and brax are friends so that would lead to korok, mike, brax, 1437 +1 and fear, jeyo, universe and fogged +1. Candidates for the +1 for each of these teams is really interesting to think about. MSS is an option for either team. I think fear is going to want players who are willing to put school on the back burner so that limits things a bit. All in all I think NA doto will end up with 3 teams again. Fears old man squad. Fluff and friendz. Korok and the NA young guns. | ||
Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
My other comment is that there are a lot of very good "Cores" in NA (Roles 1, 2, and 3), but really world class supports are not easy to find in NA. | ||
Daaktard
Sweden380 Posts
On August 14 2013 02:37 Sn0_Man wrote: Its a shame Fear wants to keep Jeyo on his team. My other comment is that there are a lot of very good "Cores" in NA (Roles 1, 2, and 3), but really world class supports are not easy to find in NA. Maybe they gel well together? And Jeyo, for all the hate that he gets,is not too bad. Just very mediocre. | ||
Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
On August 14 2013 02:37 Sn0_Man wrote: Its a shame Fear wants to keep Jeyo on his team. My other comment is that there are a lot of very good "Cores" in NA (Roles 1, 2, and 3), but really world class supports are not easy to find in NA. I disagree about Jeyo. It is hard to find an NA player who works as hard as him and also doesn't have other ties getting in the way of things which I think is exactly what Fear is looking for. Who would you replace him with? I think fear is really tired of players Who have play styles akin to demon bamboe and korok. I agree though that tol tier na supports are few and far between. | ||
1Dhalism
862 Posts
On August 13 2013 15:22 DDie wrote: Puppey didn't lead navi on TI1, artstyle was the captain at the time. Also Dendi and Hvoss are pretty good friends, so yes, if there is indeed a crisis, there is a good chance that puppey and dendi go separate ways. Would be sad to see the breaking of the most iconic dota team ever, but since LoH left i had a feeling that the day would come, let's hope for the best. i would agree with the friendship thing if it was Puppey who was escalating. But if it's your friend making a stupid decision, you're gonna try to talk them out of it, but ultimately it's about making a living. | ||
Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On August 14 2013 02:56 1Dhalism wrote: i would agree with the friendship thing if it was Puppey who was escalating. But if it's your friend making a stupid decision, you're gonna try to talk them out of it, but ultimately it's about making a living. Are we still speculating this based on some angry pictures of XBOCT and one message on an online website that was likely trolling, or has something new come out? | ||
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