• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:25
CET 19:25
KST 03:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League93
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? SC2 Power Rank: epic29 Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
SCHNAIL now supports Remastered BW General Discussion Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign Bot on ladder Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs BA 2026-10-30
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7119 users

What if Serral or Clem switched to Broodwar - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1381 Posts
March 27 2025 02:26 GMT
#41
On March 27 2025 06:26 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2025 05:54 Balnazza wrote:
On March 27 2025 05:38 dysenterymd wrote:

It is laughable to think that Serral would just go, train 5 years and somehow become ASL material because he dominated SC2 after basically no korean really giving a fuck about the game. Serral would not even be relevant during the Kespa era in SC2. You cannot convince me otherwise. Serral, Clem etc seem exceptionally not because they are exceptionally talented, but because there are 0 SC2 players right now who are playing Kespa level hours each day at a tight training regimen. You cannot convince me that Serral or Clem or whoever is 'dominating' now wouldnt just go out of the tournament 0-3 in the first round whenever they encounter any random Kespa Korean in a tournament pre 2016... which was the case for EVERY foreigner pre 2016.


Take a look at widow-mine/anti widow-mine micro in 2015 and say that again lmao.

Serral definitely would have won a lot fewer tournaments if there were still huge Korean teams with teamhouses, but nobody in their right mind could think that full-time Serral wouldn't end up excelling in any era of SC2 (he was part-time until 2017 iirc?) How talented really is he at RTS compared to other greats of the genre? Impossible to know, we'd have to clone him, Flash and Maru raise them all in a teamhouse.

Also while a lot of top Koreans are certainly phoning it in now, the idea that Maru/Classic/Inno/Rogue/Dark/Stats/Zest (who were great during peak SC2) didn't care about SC2 in 2018-2020 is laughable.


You are arguing with someone whos entire personality is "omegarofl BW>SC2" and no, I'm not even kidding.

But hey, welcome back from your ban and immediately coming back to the game you hate like nothing else <3


That's funny, cuz I argue against a bunch of people in a sc2 echochamber that for months have deluded themselves that EWC is gonna happen 100 percent. I am not sure if you can even call ME biased here.

But if it makes you happy arguing in your safe space while glazing each other nonstop. Guess there is a reason why you posted this thread in the SC2 forum instead of the BW forum to protect muh feelingz.



1)I didn't start this thread? In fact, my dude, I even agreed with you on the first page to a degree: It would be super-hard for Serral and Clem to catch up because of the immense difference in playtime. You also touched something completly right, if you are not korean, don't bother with BW, you won't make a living out of it anyway. So not only do both of them have to close a huge experience gap, but they would also need to move to Korea and then would need to learn korean to stream on Afreeca/SOOP/whatever it is called this particular month because god forbid anything in Korea having a logical and consistent name for once...

2)I answered your particular "BW statistics" the last time you got hammered. In detail even. Showing you how much you inflate the viewership and money made in BW, considering you usually project it as "this guy has five viewers on Afreeca, he is a millionaire now". No, no he is not. He is probably much poorer than any SC2 pro in the last year that played on MaNa-level of success.

3)
If you would just stop glazing and face the truth FOR ONCE, then I wouldnt even be here, I wouldnt fucking care. But I am allergic against delusion.


I lol'd way too hard to that, thanks, needed that today <3

4)During the months-long GOAT debate I went more into detail about the entire SC2-Teamhouse situation and the rise of foreigners. Which is why I try to not go into that argument anymore. But just for you, the short-run:
Yes, the closing of teamhouses had surely an effect, though I think the region-lock was even more important, just because it gave foreigners the ability to develop on their own and make the financial calculation to go pro in SC2 much easier. There is a chance, though pure speculation by me, that Serral might not even go pro without it.
That being said: Teamhouses also inflated the level of skill and are NOT an argument against Clem and Serral. You are essentially saying "the koreans needed the most competitive and professional coaching and the highest level of financial stability on the planet to be better than Clem and Serral". That is...not a good look?

5)To close with a return to my starting point: BW in Korea is essentially like Quake at this point. As long as there is some level of money in it, it will be played by the same guys who played it 20 years ago until they can't move, because there is absolutely no fresh blood in it. If there was, there would be some fluctuation like in any other "healthy" game. Just look how few players stay on top of LoL for example. Faker is the exception, not the rule.
And just to make that clear and you happy: The same will probably be true for SC2 soon aswell. There won't be any new blood, we can be super-happy to even gotten Reynor and especially Clem and MaxPax. As long as there is enough money through PiG-Festivals, Wardi Clashes and what not, a small group of players will keep playing the game (probably) and will make it impossible for any potential new kid to git gud. See BW, Quake, WC3 or AoE 2 for this.

TheViper (aka. AoE 2 GOAT) once said before the release of AoE 4, that it is technically super-easy to become one of the best in Age of Empires, because the level of professionalism is so low. What he didn't say, but knew aswell: The grind just isn't worth it. The months or even years you need to invest to be around the best is time spend better with something else. And the same is true for BW and infinitly more when you are not korean.


There, happy?
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
TL+ Member
Expensive-Law-9830
Profile Joined April 2024
130 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-27 02:58:56
March 27 2025 02:58 GMT
#42
Here is the problem with you: I show you numbers and you refute them as made up numbers and the whole community conspired to make these numbers up. There is no reason to talk to people as deluded as you. But I guess everyone just went back to BW (recently soO, TY, True) to make no money at all streaming just to really stick it up to the great SC2 community.

Then you insult others as solely being BW>SC2 HURDUR MY ONLY PERSONALITY.

Or hey, maybe the hundreds of people streaming BW full time do it for 0 money at all. All the donations they made inflated and are made up, just to troll the tl.net sc2 forum. Or the daily proleague that in 2 years paid out 4.8 millions USD. All made up, just to troll. (Wiki)Daily Proleagues

Or the about 10 million in donations to BW streamers a year. https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjs

All fucking inflated, just to troll you guys.

You refuted by saying exactly nothing factual at all and this is the standard that you have with your arguments.
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
02:00
RO8 - Day 2
Laughngamez YouTube
IPSL
01:00
Ro24 Group A
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
22:00
Epic.LAN 49 Playoffs Stage
epiclan67
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 2480
BRAT_OK 90
SKillous 32
elazer 27
MindelVK 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2908
Shuttle 532
White-Ra 126
Dewaltoss 113
Soulkey 92
Mind 88
soO 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
910 10
Hm[arnc] 8
Dota 2
Gorgc15358
monkeys_forever394
febbydoto11
League of Legends
JimRising 459
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1533
Other Games
Grubby1491
B2W.Neo826
Beastyqt807
mouzStarbuck255
KnowMe173
ArmadaUGS118
QueenE81
Trikslyr40
Chillindude14
JuggernautJason12
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick520
ComeBackTV 301
StarCraft 2
angryscii 9
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 52
• printf 49
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 5
• FirePhoenix5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2572
League of Legends
• Nemesis3220
• Jankos2823
Other Games
• imaqtpie444
• Shiphtur312
Upcoming Events
OSC
19h 35m
Yamato Cup
20h 35m
IPSL
22h 35m
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
1d 4h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 17h
Ultimate Battle
1d 17h
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
2 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
IPSL
6 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.