• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:21
CET 02:21
KST 10:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea Soulkey's decision to leave C9 mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast How much money terran looses from gas steal?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Darkest Dungeon Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Cricket [SPORT] 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5295 users

What if Serral or Clem switched to Broodwar - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1276 Posts
March 27 2025 02:26 GMT
#41
On March 27 2025 06:26 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2025 05:54 Balnazza wrote:
On March 27 2025 05:38 dysenterymd wrote:

It is laughable to think that Serral would just go, train 5 years and somehow become ASL material because he dominated SC2 after basically no korean really giving a fuck about the game. Serral would not even be relevant during the Kespa era in SC2. You cannot convince me otherwise. Serral, Clem etc seem exceptionally not because they are exceptionally talented, but because there are 0 SC2 players right now who are playing Kespa level hours each day at a tight training regimen. You cannot convince me that Serral or Clem or whoever is 'dominating' now wouldnt just go out of the tournament 0-3 in the first round whenever they encounter any random Kespa Korean in a tournament pre 2016... which was the case for EVERY foreigner pre 2016.


Take a look at widow-mine/anti widow-mine micro in 2015 and say that again lmao.

Serral definitely would have won a lot fewer tournaments if there were still huge Korean teams with teamhouses, but nobody in their right mind could think that full-time Serral wouldn't end up excelling in any era of SC2 (he was part-time until 2017 iirc?) How talented really is he at RTS compared to other greats of the genre? Impossible to know, we'd have to clone him, Flash and Maru raise them all in a teamhouse.

Also while a lot of top Koreans are certainly phoning it in now, the idea that Maru/Classic/Inno/Rogue/Dark/Stats/Zest (who were great during peak SC2) didn't care about SC2 in 2018-2020 is laughable.


You are arguing with someone whos entire personality is "omegarofl BW>SC2" and no, I'm not even kidding.

But hey, welcome back from your ban and immediately coming back to the game you hate like nothing else <3


That's funny, cuz I argue against a bunch of people in a sc2 echochamber that for months have deluded themselves that EWC is gonna happen 100 percent. I am not sure if you can even call ME biased here.

But if it makes you happy arguing in your safe space while glazing each other nonstop. Guess there is a reason why you posted this thread in the SC2 forum instead of the BW forum to protect muh feelingz.



1)I didn't start this thread? In fact, my dude, I even agreed with you on the first page to a degree: It would be super-hard for Serral and Clem to catch up because of the immense difference in playtime. You also touched something completly right, if you are not korean, don't bother with BW, you won't make a living out of it anyway. So not only do both of them have to close a huge experience gap, but they would also need to move to Korea and then would need to learn korean to stream on Afreeca/SOOP/whatever it is called this particular month because god forbid anything in Korea having a logical and consistent name for once...

2)I answered your particular "BW statistics" the last time you got hammered. In detail even. Showing you how much you inflate the viewership and money made in BW, considering you usually project it as "this guy has five viewers on Afreeca, he is a millionaire now". No, no he is not. He is probably much poorer than any SC2 pro in the last year that played on MaNa-level of success.

3)
If you would just stop glazing and face the truth FOR ONCE, then I wouldnt even be here, I wouldnt fucking care. But I am allergic against delusion.


I lol'd way too hard to that, thanks, needed that today <3

4)During the months-long GOAT debate I went more into detail about the entire SC2-Teamhouse situation and the rise of foreigners. Which is why I try to not go into that argument anymore. But just for you, the short-run:
Yes, the closing of teamhouses had surely an effect, though I think the region-lock was even more important, just because it gave foreigners the ability to develop on their own and make the financial calculation to go pro in SC2 much easier. There is a chance, though pure speculation by me, that Serral might not even go pro without it.
That being said: Teamhouses also inflated the level of skill and are NOT an argument against Clem and Serral. You are essentially saying "the koreans needed the most competitive and professional coaching and the highest level of financial stability on the planet to be better than Clem and Serral". That is...not a good look?

5)To close with a return to my starting point: BW in Korea is essentially like Quake at this point. As long as there is some level of money in it, it will be played by the same guys who played it 20 years ago until they can't move, because there is absolutely no fresh blood in it. If there was, there would be some fluctuation like in any other "healthy" game. Just look how few players stay on top of LoL for example. Faker is the exception, not the rule.
And just to make that clear and you happy: The same will probably be true for SC2 soon aswell. There won't be any new blood, we can be super-happy to even gotten Reynor and especially Clem and MaxPax. As long as there is enough money through PiG-Festivals, Wardi Clashes and what not, a small group of players will keep playing the game (probably) and will make it impossible for any potential new kid to git gud. See BW, Quake, WC3 or AoE 2 for this.

TheViper (aka. AoE 2 GOAT) once said before the release of AoE 4, that it is technically super-easy to become one of the best in Age of Empires, because the level of professionalism is so low. What he didn't say, but knew aswell: The grind just isn't worth it. The months or even years you need to invest to be around the best is time spend better with something else. And the same is true for BW and infinitly more when you are not korean.


There, happy?
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Expensive-Law-9830
Profile Joined April 2024
130 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-27 02:58:56
March 27 2025 02:58 GMT
#42
Here is the problem with you: I show you numbers and you refute them as made up numbers and the whole community conspired to make these numbers up. There is no reason to talk to people as deluded as you. But I guess everyone just went back to BW (recently soO, TY, True) to make no money at all streaming just to really stick it up to the great SC2 community.

Then you insult others as solely being BW>SC2 HURDUR MY ONLY PERSONALITY.

Or hey, maybe the hundreds of people streaming BW full time do it for 0 money at all. All the donations they made inflated and are made up, just to troll the tl.net sc2 forum. Or the daily proleague that in 2 years paid out 4.8 millions USD. All made up, just to troll. (Wiki)Daily Proleagues

Or the about 10 million in donations to BW streamers a year. https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjs

All fucking inflated, just to troll you guys.

You refuted by saying exactly nothing factual at all and this is the standard that you have with your arguments.
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Korean StarCraft League #87
CranKy Ducklings115
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
18:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #18
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 153
Vindicta 25
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5530
Rock 25
NaDa 21
Dota 2
monkeys_forever469
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear13
Counter-Strike
fl0m758
taco 574
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox468
Other Games
summit1g9133
tarik_tv4584
C9.Mang0291
JimRising 94
ViBE69
minikerr8
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV37
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta59
• RyuSc2 28
• EnkiAlexander 25
• mYiSmile19
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 63
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift3605
Other Games
• Scarra651
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Team League
10h 39m
Big Brain Bouts
15h 39m
Fjant vs SortOf
YoungYakov vs Krystianer
Reynor vs HeRoMaRinE
RSL Revival
1d 8h
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
1d 10h
Platinum Heroes Events
1d 13h
BSL
1d 18h
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
2 days
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.