• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:32
CEST 21:32
KST 04:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy2GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding3Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Any Web Designers Out there?…
sob3k
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1748 users

What if Serral or Clem switched to Broodwar - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1277 Posts
March 27 2025 02:26 GMT
#41
On March 27 2025 06:26 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2025 05:54 Balnazza wrote:
On March 27 2025 05:38 dysenterymd wrote:

It is laughable to think that Serral would just go, train 5 years and somehow become ASL material because he dominated SC2 after basically no korean really giving a fuck about the game. Serral would not even be relevant during the Kespa era in SC2. You cannot convince me otherwise. Serral, Clem etc seem exceptionally not because they are exceptionally talented, but because there are 0 SC2 players right now who are playing Kespa level hours each day at a tight training regimen. You cannot convince me that Serral or Clem or whoever is 'dominating' now wouldnt just go out of the tournament 0-3 in the first round whenever they encounter any random Kespa Korean in a tournament pre 2016... which was the case for EVERY foreigner pre 2016.


Take a look at widow-mine/anti widow-mine micro in 2015 and say that again lmao.

Serral definitely would have won a lot fewer tournaments if there were still huge Korean teams with teamhouses, but nobody in their right mind could think that full-time Serral wouldn't end up excelling in any era of SC2 (he was part-time until 2017 iirc?) How talented really is he at RTS compared to other greats of the genre? Impossible to know, we'd have to clone him, Flash and Maru raise them all in a teamhouse.

Also while a lot of top Koreans are certainly phoning it in now, the idea that Maru/Classic/Inno/Rogue/Dark/Stats/Zest (who were great during peak SC2) didn't care about SC2 in 2018-2020 is laughable.


You are arguing with someone whos entire personality is "omegarofl BW>SC2" and no, I'm not even kidding.

But hey, welcome back from your ban and immediately coming back to the game you hate like nothing else <3


That's funny, cuz I argue against a bunch of people in a sc2 echochamber that for months have deluded themselves that EWC is gonna happen 100 percent. I am not sure if you can even call ME biased here.

But if it makes you happy arguing in your safe space while glazing each other nonstop. Guess there is a reason why you posted this thread in the SC2 forum instead of the BW forum to protect muh feelingz.



1)I didn't start this thread? In fact, my dude, I even agreed with you on the first page to a degree: It would be super-hard for Serral and Clem to catch up because of the immense difference in playtime. You also touched something completly right, if you are not korean, don't bother with BW, you won't make a living out of it anyway. So not only do both of them have to close a huge experience gap, but they would also need to move to Korea and then would need to learn korean to stream on Afreeca/SOOP/whatever it is called this particular month because god forbid anything in Korea having a logical and consistent name for once...

2)I answered your particular "BW statistics" the last time you got hammered. In detail even. Showing you how much you inflate the viewership and money made in BW, considering you usually project it as "this guy has five viewers on Afreeca, he is a millionaire now". No, no he is not. He is probably much poorer than any SC2 pro in the last year that played on MaNa-level of success.

3)
If you would just stop glazing and face the truth FOR ONCE, then I wouldnt even be here, I wouldnt fucking care. But I am allergic against delusion.


I lol'd way too hard to that, thanks, needed that today <3

4)During the months-long GOAT debate I went more into detail about the entire SC2-Teamhouse situation and the rise of foreigners. Which is why I try to not go into that argument anymore. But just for you, the short-run:
Yes, the closing of teamhouses had surely an effect, though I think the region-lock was even more important, just because it gave foreigners the ability to develop on their own and make the financial calculation to go pro in SC2 much easier. There is a chance, though pure speculation by me, that Serral might not even go pro without it.
That being said: Teamhouses also inflated the level of skill and are NOT an argument against Clem and Serral. You are essentially saying "the koreans needed the most competitive and professional coaching and the highest level of financial stability on the planet to be better than Clem and Serral". That is...not a good look?

5)To close with a return to my starting point: BW in Korea is essentially like Quake at this point. As long as there is some level of money in it, it will be played by the same guys who played it 20 years ago until they can't move, because there is absolutely no fresh blood in it. If there was, there would be some fluctuation like in any other "healthy" game. Just look how few players stay on top of LoL for example. Faker is the exception, not the rule.
And just to make that clear and you happy: The same will probably be true for SC2 soon aswell. There won't be any new blood, we can be super-happy to even gotten Reynor and especially Clem and MaxPax. As long as there is enough money through PiG-Festivals, Wardi Clashes and what not, a small group of players will keep playing the game (probably) and will make it impossible for any potential new kid to git gud. See BW, Quake, WC3 or AoE 2 for this.

TheViper (aka. AoE 2 GOAT) once said before the release of AoE 4, that it is technically super-easy to become one of the best in Age of Empires, because the level of professionalism is so low. What he didn't say, but knew aswell: The grind just isn't worth it. The months or even years you need to invest to be around the best is time spend better with something else. And the same is true for BW and infinitly more when you are not korean.


There, happy?
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
Expensive-Law-9830
Profile Joined April 2024
130 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-03-27 02:58:56
March 27 2025 02:58 GMT
#42
Here is the problem with you: I show you numbers and you refute them as made up numbers and the whole community conspired to make these numbers up. There is no reason to talk to people as deluded as you. But I guess everyone just went back to BW (recently soO, TY, True) to make no money at all streaming just to really stick it up to the great SC2 community.

Then you insult others as solely being BW>SC2 HURDUR MY ONLY PERSONALITY.

Or hey, maybe the hundreds of people streaming BW full time do it for 0 money at all. All the donations they made inflated and are made up, just to troll the tl.net sc2 forum. Or the daily proleague that in 2 years paid out 4.8 millions USD. All made up, just to troll. (Wiki)Daily Proleagues

Or the about 10 million in donations to BW streamers a year. https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjs

All fucking inflated, just to troll you guys.

You refuted by saying exactly nothing factual at all and this is the standard that you have with your arguments.
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 191
White-Ra 154
MindelVK 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17078
Shuttle 329
Dewaltoss 118
Sexy 13
Dota 2
Gorgc6673
420jenkins273
capcasts38
Counter-Strike
byalli426
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu460
Other Games
summit1g7040
Grubby2299
FrodaN2003
Beastyqt630
C9.Mang0225
Pyrionflax176
mouzStarbuck163
ArmadaUGS157
QueenE68
Trikslyr37
ZombieGrub25
Mew2King17
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 37
• HerbMon 27
• RayReign 21
• 80smullet 13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV511
League of Legends
• TFBlade1165
Other Games
• imaqtpie1033
• Shiphtur268
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
14h 28m
WardiTV Team League
15h 28m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
19h 28m
IPSL
20h 28m
Hawk vs TBD
StRyKeR vs TBD
BSL
23h 28m
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
WardiTV Team League
1d 15h
OSC
1d 17h
BSL
1d 23h
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
1d 23h
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Escore
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-09
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.