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So I have been watching a lot of ESL EU cups over the last year, and for almost every ESL EU cup, the entries are heavily dominated by Protoss when I check the Liquipedia page for that particular ESL EU cup.
I suppose this is not surprising if you look at the top 50 GM makeup for the EU server, since it's the top 50 in GM for a specific region that are likely to compete in the ESL cup for that region. As of this moment, 68% of the top 50 GM spots in EU are Protoss: https://starcraft2.com/en-us/ladder/grandmaster/2.
Since there are less and less young Korean players that are able to make it to the top pro scene these days, while more and more European players are able to become top pros in the world, I think much of the future of the SC2 pro scene will come from European players.
If more and more top SC2 pros come from Europe, that is good too because much of the SC2 viewership is outside Korea so European pros becoming top SC2 players is definitely good for the viewership.
Having said that, I wouldn't want the future European SC2 scene to be dominated by Protoss, especially if the majority of future SC2 pros are going to come from Europe. This is not healthy for SC2, IMO.
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On December 12 2021 18:39 xelnaga_empire wrote:So I have been watching a lot of ESL EU cups over the last year, and for almost every ESL EU cup, the entries are heavily dominated by Protoss when I check the Liquipedia page for that particular ESL EU cup. I suppose this is not surprising if you look at the top 50 GM makeup for the EU server, since it's the top 50 in GM for a specific region that are likely to compete in the ESL cup for that region. As of this moment, 68% of the top 50 GM spots in EU are Protoss: https://starcraft2.com/en-us/ladder/grandmaster/2. Since there are less and less young Korean players that are able to make it to the top pro scene these days, while more and more European players are able to become top pros in the world, I think much of the future of the SC2 pro scene will come from European players. If more and more top SC2 pros come from Europe, that is good too because much of the SC2 viewership is outside Korea so European pros becoming top SC2 players is definitely good for the viewership. Having said that, I wouldn't want the future European SC2 scene to be dominated by Protoss, especially if the majority of future SC2 pros are going to come from Europe. This is not healthy for SC2, IMO. This is bait.
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Yeah, Toss is dominating at ladder and lower tier competitions! Outrageous! Is there any hope for Terran and Zerg???
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This may come as a surprise to you, but without ladder and lower tier competition, there's no starcraft scene
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On December 12 2021 18:55 darklycid wrote:
This is bait.
I think that's very rude of you. Some of us are concerned about the long run health of SC2. When a race dominates the top 50 GM of a specific region so much, especially when this region is probably the future of the SC2 pro scene, this deserves discussion.
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On December 12 2021 21:24 RKC wrote: Yeah, Toss is dominating at ladder and lower tier competitions! Outrageous! Is there any hope for Terran and Zerg???
To be honest, I'm not so sure about the future of Zerg in the EU pro scene. While Reynor is still young, Reynor may also be the last of his era.
I acknowledge that Zerg is still dominating the pro scene now, such as TSL 8. But when you check out the ESL EU cup entries for Zerg every week, it doesn't look good. There is often 3x as many Protoss entering the ESL EU cup than Zerg entries.
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On December 12 2021 23:10 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2021 21:24 RKC wrote: Yeah, Toss is dominating at ladder and lower tier competitions! Outrageous! Is there any hope for Terran and Zerg??? To be honest, I'm not so sure about the future of Zerg in the EU pro scene. While Reynor is still young, Reynor may also be the last of his era.
#EraOfIba
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France12466 Posts
On December 12 2021 23:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:I think that's very rude of you. Some of us are concerned about the long run health of SC2. When a race dominates the top 50 GM of a specific region so much, especially when this region is probably the future of the SC2 pro scene, this deserves discussion. There has been numerous pro gamers who showed their ladder statistics which had like 50 or 60% vP and 40% combined vT+vZ. This issue as well as AoE4 and the lag hacker kinda killed the ladder at GM level. Even though pro gamers can play custom games to practice, it is also affecting streamers etc. so it is an important issue.
If they can’t ban a single hacker after being called out by Serral since two weeks, I doubt they will do something soon. I guess we will see after Katowice 2022 if Blizzard intends to patch the game, or in 2023 after the ESL contract to see how the future of sc2 is gonna look like
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Protoss is in an interesting spot right now where they dominate the GM ladder in terms of population and are quite strong at GM in below, but Protoss has been greatly lagging in tournament wins for awhile now and appears to be simultaneously weak (weaker I should say) then the respective top Zerg and Terrans.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 12 2021 23:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:I think that's very rude of you. Some of us are concerned about the long run health of SC2. When a race dominates the top 50 GM of a specific region so much, especially when this region is probably the future of the SC2 pro scene, this deserves discussion. Well, if you;re so concerned, why you;re not concerned about the zerg domination at the highest level then?
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On December 13 2021 00:51 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2021 23:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On December 12 2021 18:55 darklycid wrote:
This is bait. I think that's very rude of you. Some of us are concerned about the long run health of SC2. When a race dominates the top 50 GM of a specific region so much, especially when this region is probably the future of the SC2 pro scene, this deserves discussion. Well, if you;re so concerned, why you;re not concerned about the zerg domination at the highest level then?
Actually, for the future of SC2, I'm not. Keyword is "future." Yes, this is the golden era for Zerg, especially TSL 8. However, at this rate, I doubt there will be many future up and coming Zergs in the EU (or even up and coming Terran in the EU). And with few young prospects in Korea, and most of the young prospects coming out of the EU, this does not look good for the future of the SC2 pro scene.
Protoss domination of ESL EU Cup entries, and making up 68% of the top 50 EU GM ladder, yeah, that's not healthy at all, IMO, for the future of the SC2 pro scene.
Just look at the last 5 ESL EU cup entries:
ESL Open Cup EU/96
ESL Open Cup EU/97
ESL Open Cup EU/98
ESL Open Cup EU/99
ESL Open Cup EU/100
That breakdown P vs Z vs T players doesn't look good at all if you are concerned about the future of the SC2 pro scene. Mind you, the ESL EU cups have more or less looked like this for some time now.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 13 2021 01:14 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2021 00:51 deacon.frost wrote:On December 12 2021 23:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On December 12 2021 18:55 darklycid wrote:
This is bait. I think that's very rude of you. Some of us are concerned about the long run health of SC2. When a race dominates the top 50 GM of a specific region so much, especially when this region is probably the future of the SC2 pro scene, this deserves discussion. Well, if you;re so concerned, why you;re not concerned about the zerg domination at the highest level then? Actually, for the future of SC2, I'm not. Keyword is "future." Yes, this is the golden era for Zerg, especially TSL 8. However, at this rate, I doubt there will be many future up and coming Zergs in the EU (or even up and coming Terran in the EU). And with few young prospects in Korea, and most of the young prospects coming out of the EU, this does not look good for the future of the SC2 pro scene. Protoss domination of ESL EU Cup entries, and making up 68% of the top 50 EU GM ladder, yeah, that's not healthy at all, IMO, for the future of the SC2 pro scene. And why is this wrong considering the top race with the worst performances are Protoss and Terrans? At least the Protoss will catch up, right?
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There is no "future" nobody plays zerg anymore on ladder, the ladder is crap many players have left that's normal the game is old too time to move on
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On December 13 2021 01:31 sim999999 wrote: There is no "future" nobody plays zerg anymore on ladder, the ladder is crap many players have left that's normal the game is old too time to move on
Why can't this, "nobody plays zerg anymore" thing happen to me? I play tons of ZvZ at the diamond NA level T___T
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On December 13 2021 02:51 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2021 01:31 sim999999 wrote: There is no "future" nobody plays zerg anymore on ladder, the ladder is crap many players have left that's normal the game is old too time to move on Why can't this, "nobody plays zerg anymore" thing happen to me? I play tons of ZvZ at the diamond NA level T___T Well i think there zerg isn't that uncommon. If we are really discussing this topic: it's just the way the void ray buffs worked, as it really helps on the ladder, combined with some all ins being possible. And skytoss is pretty good vs non top zerg as we know, so in the end the change most ppl want for pro level (make ground toss more attractive to play and nerf the void ray stuff) probably helps the ladder too.
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On the upside, Z and T have greater odds when it comes to winning the big titles. And i wonder if the viewers are feeling bad for Z when they dominate the end of a big tournament just because they face a lot of toss players in GM ladder...
I think toss players might be most annoyed by this GM ladder stat. Just imaging playing the race that is least likely to win anything big, and knowing that the opponents Z/T have had much more practice against P, than P against Z/T...
Lastly, if you look at the recent trend you obviously do not have to worry. Its not exactly 4 tosses in the ro4 in every tourney.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 13 2021 03:44 aringadingding wrote: On the upside, Z and T have greater odds when it comes to winning the big titles. And i wonder if the viewers are feeling bad for Z when they dominate the end of a big tournament just because they face a lot of toss players in GM ladder...
I think toss players might be most annoyed by this GM ladder stat. Just imaging playing the race that is least likely to win anything big, and knowing that the opponents Z/T have had much more practice against P, than P against Z/T...
Lastly, if you look at the recent trend you obviously do not have to worry. Its not exactly 4 tosses in the ro4 in every tourney. Oh boy yes, finally a non zerg world champion after 3-year streak! WOOOHOOO!!
OTOH Terrans have bigger chances on winning the Code S, because there are 2 good preparational Terrans.
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On December 13 2021 01:31 sim999999 wrote: There is no "future" nobody plays zerg anymore on ladder, the ladder is crap many players have left that's normal the game is old too time to move on
the game is barely 10 years old. chess is 1500 years old and people still play and haven't moved on yet, so I guess we still have 1490 or so years give or take
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Northern Ireland20712 Posts
I think this could be a concern for the future, sure.
I’m just not too sure if the pro scene will last in anything approaching its current form for trends and the future top players and their racial distribution really mattering.
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On December 13 2021 07:03 WombaT wrote: I think this could be a concern for the future, sure.
I’m just not too sure if the pro scene will last in anything approaching its current form for trends and the future top players and their racial distribution really mattering.
Yea I agree with that, which honestly is ridiculous, this game could have a ton of mileage left. There is still pretty good viewership and the player base seems more or less steady. Starcraft is at least relevant enough to justify even a singular annual balance patch or semi regular Blizzard communication.
imo at leas.
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