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i dont understand all the hatred towards eon. i am a regular stream viewer and have an amazing huge tv in my living room where i have the pleasure of watching eon, bonyth, terror and dewalt (where is dewalt lately by the way).
seriously whats up with all the negative attitude toward eon? is there something i am missing? he is a cool guy. his stream is fun. he doesnt talk bullshit about any player (at least when i didnt hear anything during the times i watch). people are probably jealous because he is a decent player with a decent number of viewers.
it is not an appropriate question to ask ''why did you take the challenge''. well, why not? he is already one of the best zergs outside of korea. he has nothing to prove to anybody. although he has not done well lately in tournaments he is still very very good player.
seriously stop talking shit about this guy. it makes you look silly. in fact dont talk shit about anyone who makes the non-korean brood war scene an enjoyable place. have a bitter sweet rivalry between each other. dont insult one another. you are all grownups.
damn you guys made me write like a grandfather. lol. with love from turkey...
by the way looking forward to the next bsl
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On August 06 2020 17:46 elpolloloco31 wrote: i dont understand all the hatred towards eon. i am a regular stream viewer and have an amazing huge tv in my living room where i have the pleasure of watching eon, bonyth, terror and dewalt (where is dewalt lately by the way).
seriously whats up with all the negative attitude toward eon? is there something i am missing? he is a cool guy. his stream is fun. he doesnt talk bullshit about any player (at least when i didnt hear anything during the times i watch). people are probably jealous because he is a decent player with a decent number of viewers.
it is not an appropriate question to ask ''why did you take the challenge''. well, why not? he is already one of the best zergs outside of korea. he has nothing to prove to anybody. although he has not done well lately in tournaments he is still very very good player.
seriously stop talking shit about this guy. it makes you look silly. in fact dont talk shit about anyone who makes the non-korean brood war scene an enjoyable place. have a bitter sweet rivalry between each other. dont insult one another. you are all grownups.
damn you guys made me write like a grandfather. lol. with love from turkey...
by the way looking forward to the next bsl
To answer your question and eon is probably aware of it, people talk shit about him so they can get a reaction (which they think is funny). That's basically the whole deal and it doesn't happen to eon only, it's probably close to the definition of the word "bully" which is widespread emotional or physical abuse to gain satisfaction from the suffering of others. You are probably right that all this comes from people who cannot deal with their own shortcomings in life. No big news, I know!
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I totally agree with elpolloloco31. also getting max 2090 as offrace Protoss in 7 days, is very very very good achievement already. so even tho he didnt make it to S rank, he hit A rank.
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On August 06 2020 17:10 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
About protoss:
[...]
PvT: Not a hard matchup to play but i have the feeling that in order to get it done well need to get right the Protoss dragoon micro. the reaver spots that get u kills. and learning specific build orders.
[...]
Resume: Not build orders Not Hotkeys Not commands (most of the time i make buildings with mouse) Not micro mechanics I was doing all my production with fkeys. making the workers with fkeys too. Missing a lot of Protoss knowledge.
max MMR 2090.
I dont think i can even keep B rank with all the things i mention above if i try to play Terran.
I'll cherish this.
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On August 06 2020 17:10 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2020 13:41 BigFan wrote: Feels a bit odd to me that you took the challenge on Eon without considering that you may need to deal with these snipers and such. Why didn't you take a couple of days off streaming and play ladder to see if you can truly rise to S rank with toss when you saw you were getting sniped. Reason is that as it stands, it almost sounds like an excuse as in "I can probably do it, but I keep getting sniped and BO countered". I would've liked to see if you could make S toss in a week as well, but unless you rose the several hundred MMR needed since your last post, I guess not.
Hopefully you now consider trying for S rank Terran in a week lol, but I highly doubt many are capable of that feat. From day 1 i stated making S rank will be hard.I also asked viewers about adding stream delay and we realized it is a fun challenge and im not gonna win the Champion League here. So lets make a resume. This doesnt deserve a thread and was suposed to be a fun challenge. Why you took the challenge ?I had the intention to play protoss few days. People keep coming and asking why are you playing protoss all the time. Fazek proposed the challenge and i took it.Is a good way for people to stop asking the question + is going to give some different hype to my stream. Stream snipers situation.I also expected it to happen but not at the lvl it happened. Basically some guys that in the past i asked for practise and dodged it etc started to snipe me on ladder 3 days non stop.And while you can argue well eon to make S rank u need to win these guys. Well. after playing 4 days minimym 5 hours -maximum 8 hours x day and do u see that your oponent is with the win build order. the first scouts.etc . is mentally exhausting.I for example changed my race to zerg to counter snipe them but ofc they didnt look for games. About protoss:PvP :Honestly idk how people play pvp. that matchup is a head breaker. to play pvp u really need to be emotion less. never figured out how to get a solid win in the matchup. PvT: Not a hard matchup to play but i have the feeling that in order to get it done well need to get right the Protoss dragoon micro. the reaver spots that get u kills. and learning specific build orders. PvZ: My highest winrate comes from this one. The most difficult thing i found in this matchup is when to send the worker to make the first pylon in my natural for Gateway expand. Resume: Not build orders Not Hotkeys Not commands (most of the time i make buildings with mouse) Not micro mechanics I was doing all my production with fkeys. making the workers with fkeys too. Missing a lot of Protoss knowledge. max MMR 2090. I dont think i can even keep B rank with all the things i mention above if i try to play Terran. Thx to everyone that showed interest and watched the stream. See you!
Well played, enjoying ur stream and kudos for reaching 2090, not bad to reach that goal on 7 days
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On August 06 2020 17:10 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2020 13:41 BigFan wrote: Feels a bit odd to me that you took the challenge on Eon without considering that you may need to deal with these snipers and such. Why didn't you take a couple of days off streaming and play ladder to see if you can truly rise to S rank with toss when you saw you were getting sniped. Reason is that as it stands, it almost sounds like an excuse as in "I can probably do it, but I keep getting sniped and BO countered". I would've liked to see if you could make S toss in a week as well, but unless you rose the several hundred MMR needed since your last post, I guess not.
Hopefully you now consider trying for S rank Terran in a week lol, but I highly doubt many are capable of that feat. From day 1 i stated making S rank will be hard.I also asked viewers about adding stream delay and we realized it is a fun challenge and im not gonna win the Champion League here. So lets make a resume. This doesnt deserve a thread and was suposed to be a fun challenge. Why you took the challenge ?I had the intention to play protoss few days. People keep coming and asking why are you playing protoss all the time. Fazek proposed the challenge and i took it.Is a good way for people to stop asking the question + is going to give some different hype to my stream. Stream snipers situation.I also expected it to happen but not at the lvl it happened. Basically some guys that in the past i asked for practise and dodged it etc started to snipe me on ladder 3 days non stop.And while you can argue well eon to make S rank u need to win these guys. Well. after playing 4 days minimym 5 hours -maximum 8 hours x day and do u see that your oponent is with the win build order. the first scouts.etc . is mentally exhausting.I for example changed my race to zerg to counter snipe them but ofc they didnt look for games. About protoss:PvP :Honestly idk how people play pvp. that matchup is a head breaker. to play pvp u really need to be emotion less. never figured out how to get a solid win in the matchup. PvT: Not a hard matchup to play but i have the feeling that in order to get it done well need to get right the Protoss dragoon micro. the reaver spots that get u kills. and learning specific build orders. PvZ: My highest winrate comes from this one. The most difficult thing i found in this matchup is when to send the worker to make the first pylon in my natural for Gateway expand. Resume: Not build orders Not Hotkeys Not commands (most of the time i make buildings with mouse) Not micro mechanics I was doing all my production with fkeys. making the workers with fkeys too. Missing a lot of Protoss knowledge. max MMR 2090. I dont think i can even keep B rank with all the things i mention above if i try to play Terran. Thx to everyone that showed interest and watched the stream. See you! lmfao.. right.. right
xD
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TLADT24917 Posts
@eonzerg fair points.
On August 06 2020 17:46 elpolloloco31 wrote: i dont understand all the hatred towards eon. i am a regular stream viewer and have an amazing huge tv in my living room where i have the pleasure of watching eon, bonyth, terror and dewalt (where is dewalt lately by the way).
seriously whats up with all the negative attitude toward eon? is there something i am missing? he is a cool guy. his stream is fun. he doesnt talk bullshit about any player (at least when i didnt hear anything during the times i watch). people are probably jealous because he is a decent player with a decent number of viewers.
it is not an appropriate question to ask ''why did you take the challenge''. well, why not? he is already one of the best zergs outside of korea. he has nothing to prove to anybody. although he has not done well lately in tournaments he is still very very good player.
seriously stop talking shit about this guy. it makes you look silly. in fact dont talk shit about anyone who makes the non-korean brood war scene an enjoyable place. have a bitter sweet rivalry between each other. dont insult one another. you are all grownups.
damn you guys made me write like a grandfather. lol. with love from turkey...
by the way looking forward to the next bsl You seem to have misunderstood my post. There was no shit talking involved. It was a fair question on my part to ask why he took the challenge. I don't watch his stream much and from my perspective, even if it's meant to be a fun challenge, he'll take it as seriously as possible since there's no redo. From my perspective, taking it seriously would be akin to how Last took KSL1 seriously.
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Here avi https://imgur.com/a/3TixwxH i can keep playing but i dont have time anymore school starts and its my last day of playing
S rank is inevitable
SO YES Toss or Terran to S is ez pz to make.
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On August 06 2020 17:10 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2020 13:41 BigFan wrote: Feels a bit odd to me that you took the challenge on Eon without considering that you may need to deal with these snipers and such. Why didn't you take a couple of days off streaming and play ladder to see if you can truly rise to S rank with toss when you saw you were getting sniped. Reason is that as it stands, it almost sounds like an excuse as in "I can probably do it, but I keep getting sniped and BO countered". I would've liked to see if you could make S toss in a week as well, but unless you rose the several hundred MMR needed since your last post, I guess not.
Hopefully you now consider trying for S rank Terran in a week lol, but I highly doubt many are capable of that feat. From day 1 i stated making S rank will be hard.I also asked viewers about adding stream delay and we realized it is a fun challenge and im not gonna win the Champion League here. So lets make a resume. This doesnt deserve a thread and was suposed to be a fun challenge. Why you took the challenge ?I had the intention to play protoss few days. People keep coming and asking why are you playing protoss all the time. Fazek proposed the challenge and i took it.Is a good way for people to stop asking the question + is going to give some different hype to my stream. Stream snipers situation.I also expected it to happen but not at the lvl it happened. Basically some guys that in the past i asked for practise and dodged it etc started to snipe me on ladder 3 days non stop.And while you can argue well eon to make S rank u need to win these guys. Well. after playing 4 days minimym 5 hours -maximum 8 hours x day and do u see that your oponent is with the win build order. the first scouts.etc . is mentally exhausting.I for example changed my race to zerg to counter snipe them but ofc they didnt look for games. About protoss:PvP :Honestly idk how people play pvp. that matchup is a head breaker. to play pvp u really need to be emotion less. never figured out how to get a solid win in the matchup. PvT: Not a hard matchup to play but i have the feeling that in order to get it done well need to get right the Protoss dragoon micro. the reaver spots that get u kills. and learning specific build orders. PvZ: My highest winrate comes from this one. The most difficult thing i found in this matchup is when to send the worker to make the first pylon in my natural for Gateway expand. Resume: Not build orders Not Hotkeys Not commands (most of the time i make buildings with mouse) Not micro mechanics I was doing all my production with fkeys. making the workers with fkeys too. Missing a lot of Protoss knowledge. max MMR 2090. I dont think i can even keep B rank with all the things i mention above if i try to play Terran. Thx to everyone that showed interest and watched the stream. See you!
First, i enjoyed that you did the challenge to the end and i noticed, that you started to analyze your replays serious (by day 2 or 3 iirc).
You understand now where some of the difficulties lie in pkaying toss and your own limits in it. Thats goos, is was fun to watch.
Regarding sniping: yeah it makes your final mmr a little less valid, but you needed to win against those players anyway as you said yourself. I noticed a fair amount of games that you lost fair and square against mainrace players on their main accounts (vs my clanmate REDBLUEGREEN for example, he is A rank T).
Overall, nice stream, it was fun to watch! Thx for doing the challenge!
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On August 07 2020 00:36 KameZerg wrote:Here avi https://imgur.com/a/3TixwxH i can keep playing but i dont have time anymore school starts and its my last day of playing S rank is inevitable SO YES Toss or Terran to S is ez pz to make. So it took you about a week of playing for several hours a day, remaking your account a dozen times, and then a long win streak against mediocre europeans to get your MAIN race to 2150 -- and in your universe that's great evidence that you can get S rank(which you're 100 mmr away from) with your offraces in a week?
I am not impressed by your performance.
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On August 07 2020 04:54 Avi-Love wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2020 00:36 KameZerg wrote:Here avi https://imgur.com/a/3TixwxH i can keep playing but i dont have time anymore school starts and its my last day of playing S rank is inevitable SO YES Toss or Terran to S is ez pz to make. So it took you about a week of playing for several hours a day, remaking your account a dozen times, and then a long win streak against mediocre europeans to get your MAIN race to 2150 -- and in your universe that's great evidence that you can get S rank(which you're 100 mmr away from) with your offraces in a week? I am not impressed by your performance.
Well... I think the secret is that in the last 18 games (of 26 games total) he played vs. 11 Protoss (9-2), 3 Terran (2-1) and 4 Zerg (3-1) games. Of the 11 games vs. Protoss; 5 were vs the same opponent (low A rank, MMR2084, result 4-1). The record vs. Terran was 2-1, the win was MMR 1832[B] and 1532[C] and the loss 1977[B]. All vs. Zerg wins is vs low (C and B rank) with loss being to Yaj [A].
The average MMR of all these 18 games opponents combined were MMR1982,938 [B].
Credit for best game win vs. Crvt[ReV] at 2256 [S], Protoss (also the only [S] ranked opponent). No rematch...
Conclusion: I don't think S rank is guaranteed at all (imo). Probably a solid A-rank (2050-2100) Zerg (Europe) if being active and a lot of vs. Terran practise. And that is very good indeed. But the thought of going higher with an offrace is not very likley. But why not try to prove it? (as if that even matters?)
PS. The terran loss was iRk-Aalm offrace as Terran? I think he was lucky he did not play protoss DS.
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Kame has a mean ZvP. Idk about other matchups, but there aren't many people I'd rate higher and they're all solid S
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On August 07 2020 07:47 Soulforged wrote: Kame has a mean ZvP. Idk about other matchups, but there aren't many people I'd rate higher and they're all solid S
I would rank all the usual suspects above such as Eon, Sziky, g0rynich, Trutacz, cRoSs and probably even Hawk, Dragon and Yaj and not to mention Avi and CadenZie (at least similar). I remember cRoSs (which is currently A rank) taking game after game vs. Oya on stream (during BSL practise) which probably has a winning record vs. Kame? (at least that the impression you got from watching the stream during that same time).
But in the end.... we all suck, don't we? Tier 5 (ASTL) amateurs would have a winning record (heavy such) vs. any foreigner. S-rank or not we won't get any further than our own computers. So lets just have fun while it lasts (for many many years to come, right?!, cheers to another 20!).
PS. I found a replay where I win vs. Kame while I offrace as P (Z main). Although it's a dirty 2 gate (albeit a little prolonged over 2 attacks, 8 min game). I am not claiming to be superior in any way (the opposite) but it's funny to mention in this context - Protoss is easy! :D DS.
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to be fair my terran and protoss are at similar mmr and kame has like > 80% win rate vs me. why do we need to compare our self to top tier korean players that grew up playing bw 14 hours a day in team houses to discuss race balance or the foreign scene in general?
some times i beat S rank zergs with proxy rax scv rush but that dont really prove anything (other than it's a viable rush tvz just like 5 pool zvt or w/e). stop race whining like children and enjoy this beautiful game.
eonzerg u ended up in fkn b rank after 50~ hours of practice with LIVE coaching, own it man.
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On August 07 2020 20:11 A.Alm wrote: to be fair my terran and protoss are at similar mmr and kame has like > 80% win rate vs me. why do we need to compare our self to top tier korean players that grew up playing bw 14 hours a day in team houses to discuss race balance or the foreign scene in general?
some times i beat S rank zergs with proxy rax scv rush but that dont really prove anything (other than it's a viable rush tvz just like 5 pool zvt or w/e). stop race whining like children and enjoy this beautiful game.
eonzerg u ended up in fkn b rank after 50~ hours of practice with LIVE coaching, own it man.
In some ways I feel we say the same thing but in different ways. The way I see any possible differences between Protoss, Terran and Zerg is with a twinkle in the eye. Other people make more "serious" claims, but I leave it to that.
In my opinion Protoss is heavily based on timing. You don’t need to be the fastest, but you must hit each small detail perfect to become good. It can take years to develop that game sense but once you have it pays off. Next come precision to develop a detailed understanding of the specific unit control. And last come speed (based on the deep knowledge of timing) but that’s above low/mid S-rank, which is why you can have a 300APM protoss max B-rank while the 200APM does A/S-rank.
In summary; Protoss learning curve is [TIMING] -> [PRECISSION] -> [SPEED]
I think Terran and Zerg operate slightly different. Every component is of course important, at every rank at varius degrees. But if I relate to Zerg I think it’s more like; [SPEED] -> [TIMING] -> [PRECISSION]. This is about macro/tech etc. you may have made the hydra den a few seconds to early, or to late but you could still be in the game. Protoss that miss a critical Robotics timing is more likley to straight up loose.
In short. They are different. And I think that the learning curve to reach a certain degree of [TIMING], [PRECISSION] and [SPEED] with protoss is perhaps slightly easier based on how fast you can develop these skills.
Lastly, the way I communicated if we should compare ourselves to Koreans was not meant to sound pessimistic but rather optimistic. We don’t need to call each other out on how high the MMR tree we go. Also, who cares what rank you got or how easy you claim to get it just to irritate people? I got an additional portrait to you and then what? Since the pay off is very small, or non-existent in foreign brood war I think we should all have that twinkle in the eye when we discuss such matters.
Props to eOn, I had fun watching!
EDIT! [TIMING] is a product of build order. Nailing the build order is one of the most important aspects of the game. And since a 2-gate build order is really easy to execute, and the payoff for Protoss is high in regards to [TIMING]. Nativley I also think that I score higher in [PRECISSION] in this scenario then I would if I had played Terran BBS (zealot vs. marine/SCV micro). Terran would score higher in [PRECISSION] than the other races... loose a tank/vessel at the wrong time and your out. I think that is the reason why I could win vs. someone like Kame with Protoss while it would be nearly impossible for me to do it with Terran (knowing them both at a similar low level).
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On August 07 2020 00:36 KameZerg wrote:Here avi https://imgur.com/a/3TixwxH i can keep playing but i dont have time anymore school starts and its my last day of playing S rank is inevitable SO YES Toss or Terran to S is ez pz to make.
Quick update, Kame is now at 41 total games, still playing absolute potatoes, and he has lost mmr down to 2133 (it was never higher either.) That's 19 games played after claiming to not have time to play anymore, and we're now further away from S.
Are you okay Kame?
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United States40776 Posts
In fairness 2200 players are pretty good and this game is pretty hard. I wouldn’t flame anyone for getting mid A, that’s solid.
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On August 08 2020 04:44 KwarK wrote: In fairness 2200 players are pretty good and this game is pretty hard. I wouldn’t flame anyone for getting mid A, that’s solid. When someone brags about easily getting S in a week as their offrace, get called out on it, attempt to do it with their main race, fail miserably, post excuses about not being able to play but then still continue playing.... I think a bit of flaming is warranted, don't you?
Also he's playing mostly 1750 ranked people, it's not like he's losing to 2.2k players lmao.
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sounds like this is evolving into an other personal feud
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Well i left against 1 B rank and i won against a S rank korean who dced and then deleted his account so i didnt get points ^^
edit: oh shit the guy i left against wasnt a B rank it was hyun, anyways i was 30ish sec afk no chance to win it.
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