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I hope this topic doesn't violate any forum rules. It's probably somewhat inbetween of a political topic and a SC2-related topic.
Disclaimer: If you are a climate change denier... + Show Spoiler +this discussion is not for you. You won't be able to contribute anything of value to the questions of this topic, so please show some respect and just let the people discuss who are concerned with these problems.
I am a biiiiig fan of SC2, I was a casual in Broodwar. I really liked the game but kind of never grasped the great esport scene it created. With the beta of SC2 a whole new world exploded for me and thus I'm a close follower of SC2 since then, I organized small local tournaments in my own apartment just for fun, I was moderator in a now gone esport-forum, I made friends through Starcraft and yeah... I just really love it.
BUT... all what I love, the big events, the cool players competing on a global scale presented on big stages with great casters, hosts and quite some cool effects. All that what makes such a great show and brings a really unique community together. All that is a pain in the ass of the climate change problem. We have many many players, casters, hosts, obervers, organizers, staff-people jetting around the globe on a regular basis, purchasing their dreams (which I enjoy to be allowed to be part of) and along the way they generate a huuuuuge amount of CO² emmissions. Some of them probably have the worst CO² footprints possible.
I really think that the climate change is right now the biggest problem of mankind and I fear that it is very likely that we won't manage to reduce the climate change to a bearable level. But with the recent FridaysForFuture-demonstrations I got some new hope. Politicians are forced to talk about the topic, even conservatives are presenting plans how to reduce greenhouse gas emmissions, in the recent elections of EU parliamant the votes for the green party increased substantially (especially here in Germany) and scientists say, it's still technically possible to avoid the most severe consequences of climate change. But in order to so, we have to seriously rethink our lifestyles and probably will have to cut some corners. How we use our everyday power eating media (streaming ) and how many flights are done in order to maintain a global scene of esports (not just SC2 of course) are possibly such corners.
So now I'm kind of paralyzed, on the one hand I'm kind of convinced that we have no choice to somewhat radical with CO²-reduction and just deal with the consequences. On the other hand I really would consider the impairment of the esports scene as we know it as a great loss not just to me and you but to some amount to the richness of global culture.
This leads to a cascade of questions: - Should we bother about this at all? Aren't we just a small drop on the big scale? But on the other hand: shouldn't everybody contribute to solve this problem? - Who is to be held responsible? Everybody on his/her own? Only those who fly around living the esports dream? Or the SC2 community as a whole? - How much CO²-emmissions are caused by streaming? Would it be possible to somehow use streaming platforms which use renewables? - Should events be much more local? 2012 WCS featured tournaments for each country to qualify for bigger regions (EU, NA, SA, Oceania, Asia) and then only one global final. This could reduce the amount of flights. What about online competition? - What are the perspectives of pro players/casters? It would be really cool to learn something about this: are you compensating CO² emmissions? How do you feel about this problem you're unwillingly part of? - How could possible solutions look like?
I hope, we can have a vivid discussion here and if not finding solutions at least share our feelings about this - if I'm not the only fool who thinks about this ^^
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for me climate change is just inevitable. 1% of change in that burning ball of gas we orbit just changes everything, we exist 93 million miles away from it yet you can feel the rays. I really dont think we make much difference, we are having hot days now just like i witnessed them 30 years ago, i remember in the 80's being sent home from school because it was too hot, 33 - 35 degrees for a lot of the time over the summer. We had the hottest day ever, but we seem to be actually properly recording it now. i was in egypt a few years ago, 41 degrees . . noone give a shit, said its like this all the time, this is actually quite ok said one of the novelty shop sellers. We experienced the same amount of flooding as well around my child hood. im just making a direct comparison over the times of my life, let me tell you, its rained more than ever over the last 5 years as im an avid triathlete. 4 of the tris ive dont this season have been raining harder than ive ever seen, i have over 12 years of data to show you it was much hotter back then, its cooler now . . but im just that random guy on thew internet
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so how is this in any way related to sc2? Go to other part of forum
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On August 05 2019 06:20 jinjin5000 wrote: so how is this in any way related to sc2? Go to other part of forum It is related to SC2 since the whole scene is built on the possibility to travel around the globe in order to compete and have cool live events and so on. When you think about it on a pro level esports is probably the most CO² per person emmitting competition there is (well - formula 1 is probably worse ).
@capacityex As stated in the disclaimer in the first post of this thread. This really isn't the place to discuss wether climate change really is a thing or not. I'm asking for a discussion based on the consensus that there is a human induced climate change due to greenhouse gas emmission. It's ok, if you don't agree (actually, I think it's problematic but that's another question) but this is not the topic of this thread.
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On August 05 2019 06:26 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2019 06:20 jinjin5000 wrote: so how is this in any way related to sc2? Go to other part of forum It is related to SC2 since the whole scene is built on the possibility to travel around the globe in order to compete and have cool live events and so on. When you think about it on a pro level esports is probably the most CO² per person emmitting competition there is (well - formula 1 is probably worse ). @capacityex As stated in the disclaimer in the first post of this thread. This really isn't the place to discuss wether climate change really is a thing or not. I'm asking for a discussion based on the consensus that there is a human induced climate change due to greenhouse gas emmission. It's ok, if you don't agree (actually, I think it's problematic but that's another question) but this is not the topic of this thread.
Nearly all professional sports include a lot of flying around the globe (and with much larger teams/support). I appreciate the discussion about the ways how to deal with the global warming but this is a stretch .
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On August 05 2019 06:34 Dantak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2019 06:26 fronkschnonk wrote:On August 05 2019 06:20 jinjin5000 wrote: so how is this in any way related to sc2? Go to other part of forum It is related to SC2 since the whole scene is built on the possibility to travel around the globe in order to compete and have cool live events and so on. When you think about it on a pro level esports is probably the most CO² per person emmitting competition there is (well - formula 1 is probably worse ). @capacityex As stated in the disclaimer in the first post of this thread. This really isn't the place to discuss wether climate change really is a thing or not. I'm asking for a discussion based on the consensus that there is a human induced climate change due to greenhouse gas emmission. It's ok, if you don't agree (actually, I think it's problematic but that's another question) but this is not the topic of this thread. Nearly all professional sports include a lot of flying around the globe (and with much larger teams/support). I appreciate the discussion about the ways how to deal with the global warming but this is a stretch . Of course you're right especially considering the total amount. But per person? For epsorts this does not only include flighttravel but also streaming which requires a massive amount of servers plus many viewers using a highend computer to watch it. But this is of course another interesting question on this topic: how big is the impact of esports, actually.
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Northern Ireland20706 Posts
It’s an interesting topic, there was a similar one on a Tour de France podcast I listen to recently. Sure it’s overall a small part of the big picture, but in the absence of the bigger picture shifting there’s not much to be done other than individuals thinking about the impacts and moderating their own behaviours.
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I am pretty sure that this will get move into general rather soon, it really doesn't belong into the SC part of the forum.
On August 05 2019 06:14 capacityex wrote: for me climate change is just inevitable. 1% of change in that burning ball of gas we orbit just changes everything, we exist 93 million miles away from it yet you can feel the rays. I really dont think we make much difference, we are having hot days now just like i witnessed them 30 years ago, i remember in the 80's being sent home from school because it was too hot, 33 - 35 degrees for a lot of the time over the summer. We had the hottest day ever, but we seem to be actually properly recording it now. i was in egypt a few years ago, 41 degrees . . noone give a shit, said its like this all the time, this is actually quite ok said one of the novelty shop sellers. We experienced the same amount of flooding as well around my child hood. im just making a direct comparison over the times of my life, let me tell you, its rained more than ever over the last 5 years as im an avid triathlete. 4 of the tris ive dont this season have been raining harder than ive ever seen, i have over 12 years of data to show you it was much hotter back then, its cooler now . . but im just that random guy on thew internet
None of your argument actually work.
The discussion is generally not about climate change, but about man-made climate change. Sure, if the sun would suddenly disappear, the climate would change a lot, but that is kind of not a useful discussion to have.
And we do indeed make a lot of a difference. Just read up on things instead of following your gut reaction and assuming that that directly leads to the truth.
Your personal recollection of what temperatures were in the past is incredibly irrelevant since we have actual data about this, and we have been gathering data on temperatures for a lot longer than since the 80s. Your anecdotal recollection of how much it rains is similarly pointless. It is both not very exact, and even if it were collect, not relevant.
Because we are talking about broad, statistical trends here. Even if it rained less on average across the globe, it could still rain more where you personally were due to some local factor or statistical luck. Same with temperatures. The point is that on average, temperatures around the globe are rising. Not that at every single point at the globe on every day of the year it is now hotter than in the past.
And your comparison with egypt is besides the point, too. That it is hotter in Egypt compared to where you are living does not have anything to do with global warming. And what a random novelty shop seller said is just irrelevant.
Honestly, your arguments are so bad that i am uncertain whether you are trolling here. It is the full on grabbing a snowball and saying "So much for global warming" stupidity.
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CO2 is the least of our concerns. Unless you're going to get China and India to stop factory work, nothing will change. They account for the overt majority of it.
There is no "clean" energy outside of nuclear. Solar and wind energy are horribly inefficient due to industrial battery technology. The majority of what is harnessed is lost, and what isn't has to be stored in massive and horribly pollutant batteries that we currently can't clean, so they just get tossed in landfills and further poison the ground. Currently, fossil fuels are the cleanest form of energy we have outside of nuclear. It ain't great, but it's better than the alternative.
The biggest issue right now is ocean pollution, dumping, and the like. We are literally destroying our oceans via industry.
The hypocrisy of people talking about carbon and then flying on jets everywhere is....regrettable to be nice. We aren't going to burn the planet out at the current rate of CO2 production, the ozone layer isn't going to go away and the ice caps aren't going to melt. The air pollution however might start killing people en masse soon if it isn't checked.
Esports and travel in general barely touch CO2 emissions. You need to be focused on the factories and plants that are putting out more in a few days than every car on earth can in a year.
And don't quote "Scientists"; the environmental lobby is a load. Think for yourself, educate people on the problems with batteries, on the dumping that occurs, that it is not them going for a drive that might ruin things, but corporations worth a combined trillions of dollars that are.
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Northern Ireland20706 Posts
Perhaps the real problem from our community is all the Terran salt is affecting salination levels in the sea and messing with the Gulf stream?
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On August 05 2019 07:20 Wombat_NI wrote: Perhaps the real problem from our community is all the Terran salt is affecting salination levels in the scene and messing with the Gulf stream?
killing all the freshwater gamers
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Please don't start discussions about climate change in general. This thread is not about "let's discuss about climate change". It's about "What effect do we have on climate change as SC2/esports-community and what are the ethical implications of it and what can we do about it".
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Of all the weird threads i've seen on TL over the years, this has to be one of the funniest
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On August 05 2019 07:39 fronkschnonk wrote: Please don't start discussions about climate change in general. This thread is not about "let's discuss about climate change". It's about "What effect do we have on climate change as SC2/esports-community and what are the ethical implications of it and what can we do about it".
Okay, it has zero effect. Or as close to zero as you can get without actually being zero. Therefore it has zero implications and we have nothing to do.
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I'm sorry, but based of first google result there is 102,465 flights per day. How many of them are related to sc2? I really don't think SC2 can do anything about climate change. Maybe whole esport community? Still barely under 0.1% of total pollution.
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how about fuck off with your propaganda in the starcraft 2 section. you can believe climate change is a problem and thats fine and you can look for ways you and this community can help to remedy it. but don't tell me that we should encourage LESS people to fly to events of an ALREADY NICHE entertainment industry.
i probably came off as a bit rude but honestly dont care. taking your advice would kill this game and would help the climate jack shit
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On August 05 2019 08:10 joon wrote: how about fuck off with your propaganda in the starcraft 2 section. you can believe climate change is a problem and thats fine and you can look for ways you and this community can help to remedy it. but don't tell me that we should encourage LESS people to fly to events of an ALREADY NICHE entertainment industry.
i probably came off as a bit rude but honestly dont care. taking your advice would kill this game and would help the climate jack shit Why am i not surprised that you are from usa?
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On August 05 2019 08:10 joon wrote: how about fuck off with your propaganda in the starcraft 2 section. you can believe climate change is a problem and thats fine and you can look for ways you and this community can help to remedy it. but don't tell me that we should encourage LESS people to fly to events of an ALREADY NICHE entertainment industry.
i probably came off as a bit rude but honestly dont care. taking your advice would kill this game and would help the climate jack shit
Little bit more eloquent but yeah
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Well you can riot for sc remastered, because as far as my computer tell me, it heat nearly the same as when i play sc2, and doesnt limit fps by default to a more reasonnable amount like 120 at most id says,but nbody need 250+. You can blame the same on LoL, and to facebook to autoplay by default the video when you scroll. That last one is desactivable in case one wonder. In france netflix is 25% of internet traffic, so idk about that.
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