EPTIf P goes for a zealot phoenix colossi army, his phoenixes should be able to deter any attempts to drop. Otherwise, good cannons /w dt warp-ins do relatively well too.
[D] Terran Mid-Game - Page 3
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
link0
United States1071 Posts
If P goes for a zealot phoenix colossi army, his phoenixes should be able to deter any attempts to drop. Otherwise, good cannons /w dt warp-ins do relatively well too. | ||
|
Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
The thing with worker production is also very true; while MULEs are pretty OP, there's no way you can match the insane saturation speed of Zerg, and Protoss with chronoboosts is at the very least on par, possibly better in that regard. It's true that Terran is 'all about timing pushes', as some other poster said - but I feel it's not like that in a good way; we HAVE to push out with our upgrade / research / unit timings, because outside of these we are very helpless offensively, often weak defensively as well - whereas other races are much more flexible in that regard. Not saying that Terran is straight up 'worse' or weaker than the other races, but I do feel that it is much more constricted, and has more things to look out for. | ||
|
BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
Like, in TvP there are 2 very clear timing windows when Terran has map control. The first is between when conc shells finish and when warpgate tech finishes and when, after both players have their first expansion finished, between when Terran gets his medivac tech out and the Protoss finishes teching and masses upa a big ball of units. But you don't use these windows to push because you'll just get wtfowned by sentries, you use them to gain as many tiny advantages as you can so it leads into a big advantage later when you have to confront his army directly, something you HAVE to do eventually. That's not a race being bound to timing attacks, it's a race that has to exploit the other's lack of mobility and his dependance on one large battle as opposed to many smaller ones. This is playing bio ofc. I suppose if you're playing bio/mech or mech then there are certain timings you can exploit but I wouldnt' say it defines the race as opposed to the others. | ||
|
KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
On April 20 2011 23:38 iaguz wrote: Hmm, timing attacks? I don't really know what you mean by relying on those exactly. Maybe in TvZ where there are all sorts of 2 base timing attacks and pressures and so forth but in TvP there is no real timing attack that I'm aware off other then really late thorzain style 50 billion thor special tactics. Like, in TvP there are 2 very clear timing windows when Terran has map control. The first is between when conc shells finish and when warpgate tech finishes and when, after both players have their first expansion finished, between when Terran gets his medivac tech out and the Protoss finishes teching and masses upa a big ball of units. But you don't use these windows to push because you'll just get wtfowned by sentries, you use them to gain as many tiny advantages as you can so it leads into a big advantage later when you have to confront his army directly, something you HAVE to do eventually. That's not a race being bound to timing attacks, it's a race that has to exploit the other's lack of mobility and his dependance on one large battle as opposed to many smaller ones. This is playing bio ofc. I suppose if you're playing bio/mech or mech then there are certain timings you can exploit but I wouldnt' say it defines the race as opposed to the others. There are a lot of good timing pushes in TvP. you mention concussive shell, but there are also timing attacks for bio when your first medivacs and ghosts pop at around 90-100 food that has been around since the beta, and tank/marine timings are becoming more and more popular. You also mention mech play which is pretty popular, especially in europe (I don't know of any koreans or north/latin americans who play mech, but I'm sure there are at least a few as it is a very strong style) On April 20 2011 15:12 XXXSmOke wrote: Your post is basically saying that T is ok as long as we can magically play mech, bio, attack, and macro at the same time.... I argue that T is very good at the mid-game(less so now because of that terrible stim nerf), once Tier 2 hits we get a multitude of options to punish our oppenant. The problem is that this advantage is short lived and if the other races defend this tier 2 attack, T is in a very weak spot. Transistioning as a Terran is just awful. Once ive got alot of raxes down, thats where il be for the rest of the game. If Z or P can get their 3rd down I feel pretty damn hopeless as a T. Both races have that late game macro that you just know is going to be very very hard to break through hard enough to actully destroy an expo before the millions of reinfrocements arrive. Looking at it the other way, you can go Goody style and play mech, but then you are terrible in the mid and early stages of the game which is enough for an oppenant to secure a good lead. Dont get me wrong mech can work, but its not consistent and is only good on certain maps. Im losing a ton of ladder im 24-25 right now as T and im highly frustrated, I think that last set of nerfs plus new maps plus infestor/charge buff really killed T. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm basically saying is that you can either play pure mech, pure bio, or mech with a few bio units sprinkled in, and do really well for yourself if you maintain steady unit production. you aren't terrible mid-game as mech. have you ever even played mech? yes it is stronger on some maps than others, but the same can be said about any strategy. you can't attack mid-game as mech, but you are impossible to kill, so if you understand how to control space on the map, then you are extremely powerful. I think link0 says it best, that late game terran is the problem, not mid-game. | ||
|
imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
The worker problem is annoying because you can't make them as fast as you would like. The macro problem is annoying because we have to mass a certain amount of buildings and get a certain amount of units before we get enough benefits from it (ex: compare getting 1 factory, 6 tanks, siege mode, and putting that in your army compared to 3 factories, 6 tanks, siege mode, and putting that in your army; it takes less time to reach the minimum mass of effective tanks). The map problem is not as problematic, but it's still an important part of any race. The time problem is extremely troublesome because terran units are slow to make, slow to move, and have a large minimum mass to be effective. You need a lot of marines, a lot of marauders, even a lot of tanks. There are very few units that have a low minimum effective mass and are considered cheap. This also causes a macro and a money problem. The worst part of this is that, even though our units are the most cost efficient, they aren't efficient by themselves while Zerg and Protoss don't have to worry about this as much with chrono, warpgates, and larvae mechanics. This transitional part to the late-game, in my opinion, is the weakest part because it takes us so much time to get workers, buildings, and units. Yes, our army is efficient. Yes, our mules are pretty nice. But the amount of time we get there is pretty unacceptable unless you're just turtling hardcore like Goody. This large amount of time creates timing windows where you can't do anything vs a decent opponent that scouts. For every reason you give that the late game is weak, I can relate it to something in the mid game. | ||
Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
Going to have to close this, despite being 3 pages. | ||
|
Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
My current goal is to find a build that gets me safely to 6 gases and enough scvs in a timely fashion to support that gas in order to get enough tanks, ravens, banshees, and whatever other units I need in a large enough quantity where I have enough money to build enough production buildings to cover for the slow build times of the Terran. "I want a build that surely gets me 6 gases where I can make anything." Really? | ||
| ||
