Jaedong is dub Heir Apparent by many. A clear favorite in this matchup, he is last season OSL winner with an astonishing 97-48 (66.90%) overall record. Currently the highest rank in oth PR and KesPa. After snatching an OSL title from Stork and running on a little bloody rampage, many have believe he has improved his hapless ZvP (22-18 55.00%). But will he cast all doubts away after tonight and secure his throne or would he be known as GGPlay number two?
Kal is an upcoming protoss powerhouse with an overall record of 38-25 overall (60.32%) and 14-6 (70.00%) PvZ. Statistically and mapwise the favorite of the match, but he is against the nearly unstoppable number one KespA ranked player which is causing many people to vote against his favor. If he wins tonight he will forever be on the wall of fame and place himself in the history of starcraft.
On March 08 2008 16:58 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: I can find this on Daum or GOM player? I always forget because I knoe one covers MSL and the other covers OSL but I never remember who does which.
On March 08 2008 17:28 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: The cannon attempt was probably just to try to make jaedong make less drones and earlier lings. Didn't work, but no big deal
On March 08 2008 17:28 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: The cannon attempt was probably just to try to make jaedong make less drones and earlier lings. Didn't work, but no big deal
i can almost feel jaedong trying to bend is overmind will over kal and dominate him but kal is like the calm asain swordsman reflecting all his attacks with ease
Does anyone understand why Jaedong went basically pure Hydra there? I guess sort of hydralurk, but still... not what I'm used to seeing in ZvP. Or ZvAnything, for that matter.
there is no point to go lings mid game like that because there is no +1 upgrade and he had mass z's. lings will get raped by mass z's like that along with archons
On March 08 2008 17:43 Proposal wrote: GOD. why mass hydras? Jesus.
I think he had no choice. He was under constant pressure he had to bring as many units as possible to keep on fighting and fighting in an intense pressure game.
Had he tried to turtle with lurker and make additional lings, it would be stronger storm bait. At least in a homogenous mix you can micro better, and I guess Jaedong really relied on that drop to do a lot of damage.
Can somebody explain why JD went pure hydra? I'm not sure why he eschewed zerglings in favor of hydras, especially since hydras are weak against speedlots. I've seen this a bit, and I don't understand the advantage of it. ==edit== Nevermind, a poster above me explained it.
so can anyone give me a quick run through of what happened just now? ?! i cant believe jaedong lost game1 on bluestorm. i guess kal is better than stork lol.
did jaedong try to do the same thing as he did in OSL vs stork trying to tech to defiler and shit?
Jaedong had no gas whatsoever.. he had 2 gas.. never got his 3rd gas running fine.. so its pretty hard to fight with something different than hyd/lurk.
On March 08 2008 17:47 alffla wrote: so can anyone give me a quick run through of what happened just now? ?! i cant believe jaedong lost game1 on bluestorm. i guess kal is better than stork lol.
Why didn't Jaedong just make a few lings, hydras or even a lurk to defend his 4th? That one zeal got FOUR drone kills, which is just unexcusable. He let the P outexpand him after securing a sick early advantage. This kind of reminds me of Jaedong's game vs. Stork on Persona from way back when. He just didn't try hard enough to secure more bases on a map that is so easy for Z to expand on.
Jesus some super storm play af Kal, most unfortunate for my boy Jaedong. Kal's vZ is so much better than Stork's so really hope Jaedong can up his vP skills one more time. Kal seemed to rely a lot on his speedlot micro against Jangbi that took him the win and again in the finals.
On March 08 2008 17:50 teamsolid wrote: Why didn't Jaedong just make a few lings or 2 hydras to take out the zeal messing around at his 4th? He let the P outexpand him after securing a sick early advantage. This kind of reminds me of Jaedong's game vs. Stork on Persona from way back when. He just didn't try hard enough to secure more bases on a map that is so easy for Z to expand on.
Err, did you watch the same game as we did? Do you know how hard it is to stop a force of about 12 speed z's on a newly formed hatch with maybe 2 or 3 sunks max? His 4th exp was never alive long enough to make more sunks. He was under constant harrass and had to use money towards his units.
On March 08 2008 17:50 teamsolid wrote: Why didn't Jaedong just make a few lings or 2 hydras to take out the zeal messing around at his 4th? He let the P outexpand him after securing a sick early advantage. This kind of reminds me of Jaedong's game vs. Stork on Persona from way back when. He just didn't try hard enough to secure more bases on a map that is so easy for Z to expand on.
Probably because he moved a drone to find a zealot there, and then Kal's army was knocking at his door and he had to worry about that rather then securing an expo he probably couldn't hold anyways (hence why he expoed at 6 o'clock, but too little, too late).
Listen people, jaedong played hydra lurk to keep kal from using reavers , which he has raped EVERY OTHER ZERG with in this entire league. Jaedong was simply playing for the late game when reavers are rediculously powerful against anything other than 3/3 hydra/lurk. The problem was jaedong lost the middle fight wayyyy too badly when he droped the toss main so he couldn't survive the mid game. Hydra/Lurk was a fine choice for this map. Just needed a little better execution to keep the 4th base and 3rd gas. If jaedong had, then he wouldve been fine and probably won as he wouldve been able to deny toss of his 3rd gas.
On March 08 2008 17:50 teamsolid wrote: Why didn't Jaedong just make a few lings or 2 hydras to take out the zeal messing around at his 4th? He let the P outexpand him after securing a sick early advantage. This kind of reminds me of Jaedong's game vs. Stork on Persona from way back when. He just didn't try hard enough to secure more bases on a map that is so easy for Z to expand on.
looks like jaedong made a mistake with his drop; kal's army was just waiting to counterattack and JD couldn't get anything to his 4th base to save it and it was just downhill from there
Well... he was also a bit sloppy here and there losing some zealots, storming his own zealots, storming his own obs, etc. That's what I like about Kal, he makes mistakes, his wins are ugly even when he's looking good, but he still has the grit to grind them out in the end. Especially in PvZ.
At the end of this series, hopefully we'll have seen enough of Kal's PvZ to judge how good it really is (in particular, to evaulate the claims of people that it's capable of being as nasty as bisu's/second only to his). That's one thing I want to walk away from this series with some knowledge of, since iirc it's Kal's first big PvZ series against a decent ZvPer.
On March 08 2008 17:54 beefhamburger wrote: Kal has the race advantage on Loki 2, does he not?
Yes but at this level its much less likely to play as much of a factor. I bet Jaedong will take both islands fairly quickly if he can and use the map to favor zerg. Kal should open reaver/sair if hes smart
Wow really interesting early drone on the ramp block while taking the back expo.
God i can't find this fkin' TV thing... When i try to install (as suggested by yakii) the korean GomTV it seems like it's the same as the english's one... You sure the link is working ?
LOL HOLY SHIT! Those were geniune screams of fuckin AGONY as those 2 drones went down to a zeal. The zeal nicely trapped against the spawning pool though.
I love how Kal always places his zealots in creative places to maximize their strength against lings early. That spawning pool block was awesome. D: (Too bad the zealot got confused when targeting the drone ).
On March 08 2008 17:54 beefhamburger wrote: Kal has the race advantage on Loki 2, does he not?
Yes but at this level its much less likely to play as much of a factor. I bet Jaedong will take both islands fairly quickly if he can and use the map to favor zerg. Kal should open reaver/sair if hes smart
Wow really interesting early drone on the ramp block while taking the back expo.
On March 08 2008 17:54 beefhamburger wrote: Kal has the race advantage on Loki 2, does he not?
Yes but at this level its much less likely to play as much of a factor. I bet Jaedong will take both islands fairly quickly if he can and use the map to favor zerg. Kal should open reaver/sair if hes smart
Wow really interesting early drone on the ramp block while taking the back expo.
On March 08 2008 18:00 teamsolid wrote: That's what everyone thought when Savior lost his first game vs Bisu too
I could understand those thoughts about savior, given his phenomenal ZvP statistics at the time. I would have thought this series was as much a test of Jaedong's ZvP as it was Kal's mettle though.
Kal can't seem to make up his mind what to attack. Hits Jaedong's front natural expo, kills some lurkers and most his muta, and some sunkens... then he hits Jaedong's new expo in the lower right. It's going down, but he again loses his nexus that he keeps trying to warp at a nearby expo.
Dt drop at the Jaedong's back expo, kills a sunken... shuttle goes north to the expansion above it, storms and kills all but one drone. Kal manages to save the nexus he keeps warping finally.
Kal gets another storm drop off at Jaedong's front natural. Kills about 8 drones. Then another storm drop in his back expo, killing about as many. Not looking good for Jaedong. Note, this is after he saved his shuttle just barely with an archon killing a scourge at the last second.
That was insaneity. The ob kept moving all around the map and in every screen its ultras and lings + defilier + scorge raping the shit of of different toss units toss
Jaedong's so fast... he goes as fast as possible in each screen and as he jumps screens there's no hesitation at all, his mouse is already moving to where to click in the next screen.. just wow.
On March 08 2008 18:19 PoP wrote: Retarded all-in by Kal lost him the game.
Exactly. He mustve lost at least 40 or so pop for absoulutely nothing with that attack. This gave map control back to jaedong. Still though, it was a great game. Jaedong and Kal both played very well except for that one mistake by Kal.
What makes that attack even worse is that Kal had 2 fucking robos pumping reavers=/
On March 08 2008 18:21 RaiZ wrote: God how can jaedong keep increasing his unit count with all his lost drones ? This is some serious scary zerg we got here... oO
i don't think he lost half as many as we think he did
I can't believe how well JD microed his drones. Did you see that part when 2 dt's dropped at 9 and he was saving it + hunting down the shuttle, and at the same time another shuttle at his nat came in and he moved his drones out without a single loss?
I mean yea Kal eventually got a few kills, but JD minimized his damage so well it was pretty damn insane.
I think he wanted to try a strong frontal assault to try and get jaedong from reaching defliers against his heavy zeal/goon mix. a 200/200 combo like that would not last long against ultra/ling.
On March 08 2008 18:21 LumberJack wrote: fucking sick comeback...
not that sick i think, jaedong was play gaystyle zerg sunken spore lurker kal was playing great harassing everywhere and expanding more on his way to winning (i dont want him to win though but anyway) THEN kal decides to suicide his whole HALF PLAGUED army into jaedong's 20 lurkesr 20 sunkens 20 spores defence
On March 08 2008 18:18 ray1234 wrote: fuck you kal!,
jd's lurker defense = godlike
more like kal suiciding 90% of his men = ungodlike
no fucking way,
tell me how you attack lurkers with zealots and not suicide???
kal expected hydras again with mass zealots but got a face shitted with lurkers.
wtf are you smoking that attack was like, 75% into the game already and you think kal would've expected HYDRAS after playing that long vs lurker ling? LOL
in fairness to kal I don't think he had any idea how thick that defense was. I mean, would he really suspect that jaedong would just sit there with 20 lurkers and do nothing?
But I agree, that impatient move cost him the game.
On March 08 2008 18:22 ._. wrote: I think he wanted to try a strong frontal assault to try and get jaedong from reaching defliers against his heavy zeal/goon mix. a 200/200 combo like that would not last long against ultra/ling.
Obviously..but even still, it was a horrible decesion. There were better targets.
On March 08 2008 18:22 Live2Win wrote: I can't believe how well JD microed his drones. Did you see that part when 2 dt's dropped at 9 and he was saving it + hunting down the shuttle, and at the same time another shuttle at his nat came in and he moved his drones out without a single loss?
I mean yea Kal eventually got a few kills, but JD minimized his damage so well it was pretty damn insane.
Agreed. JD's drone micro/reaction time is fucking sick.
That was Kal's game to lose and Jaedong's to stage a comeback on to boot. Ah well, Kal will be aware of his mistake and has proven himself good enough to counter that (as had Bisu following the game on Blue Storm).
On March 08 2008 18:26 beefhamburger wrote: i wish someone would shoot the person that came up with that pata pata pata pon commercial...
its annoying even after I played the game. its daunting that I got stuck in the game and cant go pass it cuz of a stupid glitch. Pata Pata Pata Pron. yes, pron. God of War wins now.
On March 08 2008 18:26 beefhamburger wrote: i wish someone would shoot the person that came up with that pata pata pata pon commercial...
that was pretty horrible, though i think she was just chosen b/c of her pretty face and huge tits. Her voice and dancing was pretty much the epitome of satan
yeah i cant understand why on pro level the gamers often decide to suicide attack against a disadvantaged zerg whos turtling up... whenever i try that against a competent toss on iccup, 90% of the time he just sits backs and denies expos. If ur opponent has 80% static defense (lurkers are very bad for mounting an offensive zvp) in a situation like that its absolutely dumb to go in. Yet I still see this move more often by pros than by the average iccup guy. Why? °_°
Yet again, nobody forced Kal to charge into the sunken / lurker natural. Jaedong had a disadvantage early and did what he had to to stay in the game until his hive tech kicked in. And how he bounced back once he got the opportunity was beautiful.
Unless you place your buildings in the shape of a penis, you can't possibly say how he plays is gay. They play to win. They don't play to make you happy.
On March 08 2008 18:26 Cambium wrote: Jaedong played really gay imo...
What the fuck did you expect him to do?
I fucking hate comments like this. Its called trying to come back and win. It's not gay. It's intelligent.
I thought if like a boxing match where jaedong was taking all the small hits the first rounds, then when his opponent made a slip, he goes for the uppercut.
Moreso or less, I thought this game more as a game of willpower than a strategic battle for jaedong. All that multiple attacking and drone escaping.
Oh and I think Kal's worst mistake that game was being careless about that 4th expo, getting denied by zerglings x3 I think?
On March 08 2008 18:21 LumberJack wrote: fucking sick comeback...
not that sick i think, jaedong was play gaystyle zerg sunken spore lurker kal was playing great harassing everywhere and expanding more on his way to winning (i dont want him to win though but anyway) THEN kal decides to suicide his whole HALF PLAGUED army into jaedong's 20 lurkesr 20 sunkens 20 spores defence
I don't think the suicide attack was that big of a deal. I remembered he mostly suicided his zealots only, and saved most of his archon/goon army, which was fine since he probably had maxed out 200/200 anyways and was trying to get gas heavier units like reavers and more archons. So actually he probably suicided the majority of those units to make room while doing some kind of damage.
Rather, imo it was JD's defense against the shuttle drops and his counter-drop followed by his attack at 6 that gave hims the clutch. His drop in Kal's main was a huge gamble because he had to go fly over Kal's territory to get there, and he only dropped a small handful of lurker/ling with a like 1 or 2 defilers, which let him capitalize on the amount of damage he could do. By number that drop should have been cleaned out easily, but because of the timing, and the swarm JD put, he was able to take out gateways and the robotics support bay, which put a gap in the reaver usage.
Then his attack at 6 was again, very effective, the way he surrounded the cannons, dodged the storms and swarmed. IMO, it was these events that lead to JD's victory.
SaviOr playing the next ILOVESTAR. or ILOVECHRISTIANS
lol wtf i actually watched that show a week ago LOL its some national geographic thing about "the age of messiahs" and about religion and how it started blalhba
On March 08 2008 18:21 LumberJack wrote: fucking sick comeback...
not that sick i think, jaedong was play gaystyle zerg sunken spore lurker kal was playing great harassing everywhere and expanding more on his way to winning (i dont want him to win though but anyway) THEN kal decides to suicide his whole HALF PLAGUED army into jaedong's 20 lurkesr 20 sunkens 20 spores defence
I don't think the suicide attack was that big of a deal. I remembered he mostly suicided his zealots only, and saved most of his archon/goon army, which was fine since he probably had maxed out 200/200 anyways and was trying to get gas heavier units like reavers and more archons. So actually he probably suicided the majority of those units to make room while doing some kind of damage.
Rather, imo it was JD's defense against the shuttle drops and his counter-drop followed by his attack at 6 that gave hims the clutch. His drop in Kal's main was a huge gamble because he had to go fly over Kal's territory to get there, and he only dropped a small handful of lurker/ling with a like 1 or 2 defilers, which let him capitalize on the amount of damage he could do. By number that drop should have been cleaned out easily, but because of the timing, and the swarm JD put, he was able to take out gateways and the robotics support bay, which put a gap in the reaver usage.
Then his attack at 6 was again, very effective, the way he surrounded the cannons, dodged the storms and swarmed. IMO, it was these events that lead to JD's victory.
On March 08 2008 18:21 LumberJack wrote: fucking sick comeback...
not that sick i think, jaedong was play gaystyle zerg sunken spore lurker kal was playing great harassing everywhere and expanding more on his way to winning (i dont want him to win though but anyway) THEN kal decides to suicide his whole HALF PLAGUED army into jaedong's 20 lurkesr 20 sunkens 20 spores defence
I don't think the suicide attack was that big of a deal. I remembered he mostly suicided his zealots only, and saved most of his archon/goon army, which was fine since he probably had maxed out 200/200 anyways and was trying to get gas heavier units like reavers and more archons. So actually he probably suicided the majority of those units to make room while doing some kind of damage.
Rather, imo it was JD's defense against the shuttle drops and his counter-drop followed by his attack at 6 that gave hims the clutch. His drop in Kal's main was a huge gamble because he had to go fly over Kal's territory to get there, and he only dropped a small handful of lurker/ling with a like 1 or 2 defilers, which let him capitalize on the amount of damage he could do. By number that drop should have been cleaned out easily, but because of the timing, and the swarm JD put, he was able to take out gateways and the robotics support bay, which put a gap in the reaver usage.
Then his attack at 6 was again, very effective, the way he surrounded the cannons, dodged the storms and swarmed. IMO, it was these events that lead to JD's victory.
ya jaedong's drop put kal on the defensive which is when jaedong decided to produce ultras i think jaedong slowly bought time beautifully and therefore he won that game he didnt play "gayly"
On March 08 2008 18:21 LumberJack wrote: fucking sick comeback...
not that sick i think, jaedong was play gaystyle zerg sunken spore lurker kal was playing great harassing everywhere and expanding more on his way to winning (i dont want him to win though but anyway) THEN kal decides to suicide his whole HALF PLAGUED army into jaedong's 20 lurkesr 20 sunkens 20 spores defence
I don't think the suicide attack was that big of a deal. I remembered he mostly suicided his zealots only, and saved most of his archon/goon army, which was fine since he probably had maxed out 200/200 anyways and was trying to get gas heavier units like reavers and more archons. So actually he probably suicided the majority of those units to make room while doing some kind of damage.
Rather, imo it was JD's defense against the shuttle drops and his counter-drop followed by his attack at 6 that gave hims the clutch. His drop in Kal's main was a huge gamble because he had to go fly over Kal's territory to get there, and he only dropped a small handful of lurker/ling with a like 1 or 2 defilers, which let him capitalize on the amount of damage he could do. By number that drop should have been cleaned out easily, but because of the timing, and the swarm JD put, he was able to take out gateways and the robotics support bay, which put a gap in the reaver usage.
Then his attack at 6 was again, very effective, the way he surrounded the cannons, dodged the storms and swarmed. IMO, it was these events that lead to JD's victory.
You're kidding yourself if you think that failed attack was somewhat on purpose There were much better targets that were much less defended and probably couldve been ran over.
On March 08 2008 18:29 diehilde wrote: yeah i cant understand why on pro level the gamers often decide to suicide attack against a disadvantaged zerg whos turtling up... whenever i try that against a competent toss on iccup, 90% of the time he just sits backs and denies expos. If ur opponent has 80% static defense (lurkers are very bad for mounting an offensive zvp) in a situation like that its absolutely dumb to go in. Yet I still see this move more often by pros than by the average iccup guy. Why? °_°
Pros have extremely good unit control and many times they are able to break, while if they dont do it, they give chances for the opponent to come back in the game
On March 08 2008 18:21 LumberJack wrote: fucking sick comeback...
not that sick i think, jaedong was play gaystyle zerg sunken spore lurker kal was playing great harassing everywhere and expanding more on his way to winning (i dont want him to win though but anyway) THEN kal decides to suicide his whole HALF PLAGUED army into jaedong's 20 lurkesr 20 sunkens 20 spores defence
I don't think the suicide attack was that big of a deal. I remembered he mostly suicided his zealots only, and saved most of his archon/goon army, which was fine since he probably had maxed out 200/200 anyways and was trying to get gas heavier units like reavers and more archons. So actually he probably suicided the majority of those units to make room while doing some kind of damage.
Rather, imo it was JD's defense against the shuttle drops and his counter-drop followed by his attack at 6 that gave hims the clutch. His drop in Kal's main was a huge gamble because he had to go fly over Kal's territory to get there, and he only dropped a small handful of lurker/ling with a like 1 or 2 defilers, which let him capitalize on the amount of damage he could do. By number that drop should have been cleaned out easily, but because of the timing, and the swarm JD put, he was able to take out gateways and the robotics support bay, which put a gap in the reaver usage.
Then his attack at 6 was again, very effective, the way he surrounded the cannons, dodged the storms and swarmed. IMO, it was these events that lead to JD's victory.
You're kidding yourself if you think that failed attack was somewhat on purpose There were much better targets that were much less defended and probably couldve been ran over.
well, I do think he wanted to get rid of his zealots eventually. He had 4 running expos, and 2 more fresh and ready (at 6 and 5). He had already started producing reavers and was at this point busy making JD run his drones around his base. He was most likely maxed out 200/200 already and probably had money piling up.... he wanted to trade in his cheaper units to create more expensive units.
What he didn't expect is to JD counter attack with a small drop and do that much damage during the small gap when he lost a large portion of his army and was still in the process of reproducing.
I think JD's insane defiler play was also important in his victory (or at least comeback). I've never seen any other Z use them vs. P as effectively as Jaedong does. Without that one hero defiler, he wouldn't have been able to take out both Kal's 6 and 4.
Looking forward to Jaedong's skill overcoming Katrina, I don't care if he does it in a "gay" mass expand savior defensive style, I want him to show who's the better player.
Perfect stream here, nice But damn don't try to speedling down to the bakery and back for some fine cookies between games if your upgrade isn't completed yet
They take a good look a the zerg base and see an evo chamber done and a spire finishing. The spire will probably just be used for scourge though. Kal will have too many sairs soon to make mutas useful at all. Kal has a reaver out. Jaedong started his 5th hatch. 2 scourge fly dangerously close to the shuttle with a reaver in it, but die. Jaedong starting his 6th hatch at the southern min only. Kal drops a reaver and 2 zeals but jaedong is more than ready. He takes out the reaver easily with very few loses. Kal saves his shuttle with nice micro vs scourge though. Kal massing gates now and starting a archives.
Oh nice, Jaedong has burrowed lings spread around scouting. Kal starting his 2nd expo finally. Ohhh a nice 2 dt 2zeal drop in the main while pure speedlots finally bring down the min only hatch
Jadong has 3 evos. He also has about a group of hydras burrowed near his lair and evos. Jaedong cancels the min only hatch location as a group of speed zeals run up.
Kal is playing his Blue Storm plan again - deny Zerg the fourth base. But on Katrina, JD already has 3 gas now, so he is better off. He has not spent much gas yet, as he is mainly on hydras, so prolly a huge hive tech incoming once he gets breathing space.
nvm, he invests in lurkers just as the zealot / goon assault comes. NOt enough temps to fight that combo efficiently.
WOW beautiful morphe by jaedong as he snipes the shuttle + reaver with 10hdyras or so. Ouch, he does manage to get a shitload (5+) lurks stormed without an ob nearby
A storm drop gets 3 drones and loses nothing. Not bad Queens nest finally done and 2 scourge take down a shuttle. BUt not before kal finally gets a nice storm off, getting 6 or so drones. Almost pure goons advancing on 5 or so lurks but the ob dies to a storm. It wouldve died to hydra anyways though. COUNTER ATTACK ON THE P THIRD! cannons die but zeals and temps come and the hydras runs.
A huge attack by Kal at the min only and an equally huge counter attack on the protoss main! Many gateways dying! FUCKING INTENSE! ELIMINATION RACE COMMING?!
Jaedong takes out the last ob and the protoss army while hes still wasting the toss main! Jaedong has done it! He will take this game with a fantastic counter attack!
On March 08 2008 18:52 zer0das wrote: STOP... STORMING.... YOUR.... OBSERVERS KAL.
IT DOESNT MATTER OK? Hes only storming them because they're about to be sniped? CHRIST.
Uh... no, look at the screenshot. Obs nearly on top of the hydra. He's being ridiculously careless even without the scourge hunting down the obs. He's losing them early and it's stalling his attacks at critical times.
Did you guys notice how JaeDong loses his first game and then wins the rest? 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Stork, 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Flash, and some other I can't remember right now, I think. Snowball effect.
On March 08 2008 18:52 zer0das wrote: STOP... STORMING.... YOUR.... OBSERVERS KAL.
IT DOESNT MATTER OK? Hes only storming them because they're about to be sniped? CHRIST.
Uh... no, screenshot of an observer over hydra getting stormed. He's being ridiculously careless even without the scourge hunting down the obs. He's losing them early and it's stalling his attacks at critical times.
On March 08 2008 18:57 maybenexttime wrote: Did you guys notice how JaeDong loses his first game and then wins the rest? 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Stork, 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Flash, and some other I can't remember right now, I think. Snowball effect.
On March 08 2008 18:52 zer0das wrote: STOP... STORMING.... YOUR.... OBSERVERS KAL.
IT DOESNT MATTER OK? Hes only storming them because they're about to be sniped? CHRIST.
Uh... no, screenshot of an observer over hydra getting stormed. He's being ridiculously careless even without the scourge hunting down the obs. He's losing them early and it's stalling his attacks at critical times.
HEY GUESS WHAT!? HYDRA CAN KILL OBS TOO
When they showed Kal's attack there wer only one or two lurkers left, so even without obs, i doubt it was the lurkers that did so much damage
On March 08 2008 18:52 zer0das wrote: STOP... STORMING.... YOUR.... OBSERVERS KAL.
IT DOESNT MATTER OK? Hes only storming them because they're about to be sniped? CHRIST.
Uh... no, screenshot of an observer over hydra getting stormed. He's being ridiculously careless even without the scourge hunting down the obs. He's losing them early and it's stalling his attacks at critical times.
HEY GUESS WHAT!? HYDRA CAN KILL OBS TOO
My point is he's running the obs directly into where he should be storming, which 1. opens the obs to the hydra, 2. even if the hydra don't get it he's probably going to storm it. WHICH HE HAS BEEN.
On March 08 2008 18:57 maybenexttime wrote: Did you guys notice how JaeDong loses his first game and then wins the rest? 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Stork, 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Flash, and some other I can't remember right now, I think. Snowball effect.
Stop with the tabloid reactions already. Staging a hard fought comeback after someone makes mistakes that let you into the game =/= Rape. It's a hard fought comeback executed by a great player, but Kal shouldn't have given Jaedong the chance in the first place.
Acknowledge both his ability to take advantage of other's mistakes and the mistakes that gave him the chance in turn. : /
On March 08 2008 18:57 maybenexttime wrote: Did you guys notice how JaeDong loses his first game and then wins the rest? 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Stork, 0-1 to 3-1 vs. Flash, and some other I can't remember right now, I think. Snowball effect.
yea so far every bo5 JD played with the exception of his bo5 vs UpMagiC was a 0-1 to 3-1 victory... oh wait, if you include the bo5 he lost to rock.... so, bo5 history for JD (afaik)
1-3 vs Rock 3-0 vs UpMagiC 3-1 vs Stork (0-1, 3-1) 3-1 vs Flash (0-1, 3-1) 3-1 vs Mind (0-1, 3-1) currently 2-1 vs Kal (0-1, 2-1)!!!
On March 08 2008 18:56 PoP wrote: Imho Kal totally threw away the two games he lost so far.
That counter-attack was perfectly planned and SO clutch for Jaedong. I think he might've lost if he straight up defended in that game. Kal showed some really smart play early on to give him the advantage though. He used the threat of his reaver/temp drop at Jaedong's nat at 1 to occupy his hydras and lead them up, while he used that distraction to take out Jaedong's 4th at a key time in the match.
Oh man I don't see how kal is going to win this. Jaedong's got his momentum back, Zodiac slightly favors zerg and kal's already lost on two favored p maps. Hoping for a blue storm-esque game, but I dunno, have a bad feeling about this.
On March 08 2008 19:05 ._. wrote: Oh man I don't see how kal is going to win this. Jaedong's got his momentum back, Zodiac slightly favors zerg and kal's already lost on two favored p maps. Hoping for a blue storm-esque game, but I dunno, have a bad feeling about this.
He has played well enough to seize the advantage in both games 2 and 3. All that Kal has to do is keep that up, and finish it properly. He has the ability and it's entirely in his hands.
Jaedong with a relatively early lair. Much before the 4th hatch goes up at the 2nd high ground nat. SPire started. Looks like an "early" timing muta build for jeadong. He scouts the lack of stargate with an overord. WOW great play by jaedong, abusing the lack of cannon coverage to kill4 probes or so.
JULY REINCARNATE! (for those who are newer to progaming, july used to rape this shit out of toss with muta only, the first to easily dodge archons and pick off probes)
Ugh, felt like Kal ran out of steam at that one. I suppose we'll need to wait for the Bisu vs Jaedong Bo5 after all.
Still, Kal proved he's got a nice PvZ, and he's not just about beating up on people on imbalanced maps. On one hand, a Zerg won at a ZvP final, so I am sad. On the other hand, it means Bisu is still the one P I can hope for to throw LJD out of a finals match <3.
Well, at least we got to see Jaedong's godly mutas once this series, wouldn't have been complete without it. Could have happened in a less one sided game though.
i wish they had msl and osl winners play each other after they win their respective tournaments. i would like to see another rematch between him and flash.
Pretty anti-climatic finish. Kal definitely played well in the beginning of the series; he just stupidly gave away advantages and in game 4 he just ... went blah.
kal must feel so sad. being no one and suddenly appearing in the MSL finals... than getting smashed to real world with 3hatch-mutas! It´s not only that he lost, but he may have hard times to recover from this loss!
Nevermind, JaeDong deserved this win! great games, great stream, great morning here
On March 08 2008 19:22 Live2Win wrote: I imagine Kal's mind just went blank when he saw those mutas.... he played pretty damn sloppy that game.
Ah I'm sure he misses those two games on Katrina and especially Loki.
I'm wondering why the hell did he not make a sair. Did he panic after those zerglings because they were completely unexpected?
I doubt it. My guess is he was planning on making cannons, but losing the probes messed up his timing. Otherwise I don't know why he would have ever warped them to begin with... clearly he knew something was up.
Although it wouldn't have been enough to cover his natural, so he probably wasn't thinking too clearly.
On March 08 2008 19:04 Live2Win wrote: guys just use R1ch's little program changer. It gets rid of all that extra junk and make it really easy to find links.
@$#%&@# Just got it worked thanks you so much but as i was about to watch this live stream again it was already the end !!!
Awwwwwwwww...... If only i had it worked faster... Thanks again though, that a pretty neat "hack" !
On March 08 2008 19:25 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: By the way I dont think kal ever had an advantage in game 3.
Yeah, me either really. His first push got stuffed and he kept losing traction, even with the hatch kill. At least that's how I saw it. He was even though, at least midway through.
hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
On March 08 2008 19:22 Live2Win wrote: I imagine Kal's mind just went blank when he saw those mutas.... he played pretty damn sloppy that game.
Ah I'm sure he misses those two games on Katrina and especially Loki.
I'm wondering why the hell did he not make a sair. Did he panic after those zerglings because they were completely unexpected?
Damn, I am so down right now.
It could've been a 3-0. I'll always remember that.
he wasn't going stargate to begin with
yeah my point exactly why not make a stargate.
He did not know what his tech was at all, why the hell not.
And those templars...painful to see them die.
his predetermined build didn't include a stargate
Of course!
I'm just wondering why that build. Especially a map with island expansions and a game like that free vs savior happening. What was he going for?
Indeed it looked like he was going for a fast archon but he screwed up that up so bad it hurt to watch, but that build had many risks and after all those games of relentless scouting and sair use, you'd think he would continue off from that pattern.
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
it was boxer who did a risky build n was hit by jaedong's build
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
well fuck when you 14cc are you taking a gamble. BoxeR decided to gamble and lost it.
On March 08 2008 19:25 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: By the way I dont think kal ever had an advantage in game 3.
Yeah, me either really. His first push got stuffed and he kept losing traction, even with the hatch kill. At least that's how I saw it. He was even though, at least midway through.
I disagree. Kal was slightly ahead. He had more units and the economical advantage after killing quite a few drones with stormdrop. Of course Jae was still in the game, especially with hive tech incoming, would've really depended on Kal's lategame strategy.
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
That's so stupid. Jaedong didn't even scout Boxer before he decided to 9 pool. I suppose canceling his pool and then making a Hatchery at his nat would have been more good mannered?
Jesus, these people play to win, get that through your head.
On March 08 2008 19:25 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: By the way I dont think kal ever had an advantage in game 3.
Yeah, me either really. His first push got stuffed and he kept losing traction, even with the hatch kill. At least that's how I saw it. He was even though, at least midway through.
I disagree. Kal was slightly ahead. He had more units and the economical advantage after killing quite a few drones with stormdrop. Of course Jae was still in the game, especially with hive tech incoming, would've really depended on Kal's lategame strategy.
agreed.
1 of Kal's storm drops did get a good kill number, and his attack at 6 did eventually kill the hatch. That and JD hastilly burrowed a bunch of lurkers, which ended up getting stormed on and losing most of them. So JD was definately behind.
atleast we can agree that Kal has a better PvZ than Stork. Stork's games vs JD were ok, but they weren't very nail-biting as this... except for game 4 of course. That had "choked" written all over it.
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
That's so stupid. Jaedong didn't even scout Boxer before he decided to 9 pool. I suppose canceling his pool and then making a Hatchery at his nat would have been more good mannered?
Jesus, these people play to win, get that through your head.
you can't say that wasn't an incredibly disappointing way for the Emperor to be eliminated tho
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
That's so stupid. Jaedong didn't even scout Boxer before he decided to 9 pool. I suppose canceling his pool and then making a Hatchery at his nat would have been more good mannered?
Jesus, these people play to win, get that through your head.
you can't say that wasn't an incredibly disappointing way for the Emperor to be eliminated tho
He would've been eliminated one way or another in an extremely one-sided fashion. Get over it.
I don't see Jaedong feel very happy after the win, probably he has more important things to do. So I bet the next objective of Jaedong will be to dismantle Flash's goliath legion.
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
That's so stupid. Jaedong didn't even scout Boxer before he decided to 9 pool. I suppose canceling his pool and then making a Hatchery at his nat would have been more good mannered?
Jesus, these people play to win, get that through your head.
you can't say that wasn't an incredibly disappointing way for the Emperor to be eliminated tho
He would've been eliminated one way or another in an extremely one-sided fashion. Get over it.
meh, not necessarily. and that still doesn't stop it from sucking when it happens. that game was nothing but luck. edit: not saying Jaedong couldn't beat him without luck, just that there was nothing but luck in that game.
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
That's so stupid. Jaedong didn't even scout Boxer before he decided to 9 pool. I suppose canceling his pool and then making a Hatchery at his nat would have been more good mannered?
Jesus, these people play to win, get that through your head.
you can't say that wasn't an incredibly disappointing way for the Emperor to be eliminated tho
He would've been eliminated one way or another in an extremely one-sided fashion. Get over it.
meh, not necessarily. and that still doesn't stop it from sucking when it happens. that game was nothing but luck. edit: not saying Jaedong couldn't beat him without luck, just that there was nothing but luck in that game.
I think it's much better Boxer got beaten that way so his fans can cling to the hope that he could hang with Jaedong if they played a longer game. If it hadn't been 9 pool > 14 cc Jaedong would have dominated a standard game from start to finish, dashing Boxer's fans hope of a meaningful comeback after Ace.
On March 08 2008 19:27 noojOh wrote: hmm i know i dislike certain players too and all but i dont understand this anti-jaedong craze the guys a nice guy, never cocky, very reserved in interviews and pretty much never downplays anyone if its just the fact that hes so dominant right now and has been a legend killer then ya i understand but jaedongs just too nice ha
9pooling BoxeR's 14cc isn't nice. T_T
That's so stupid. Jaedong didn't even scout Boxer before he decided to 9 pool. I suppose canceling his pool and then making a Hatchery at his nat would have been more good mannered?
Jesus, these people play to win, get that through your head.
you can't say that wasn't an incredibly disappointing way for the Emperor to be eliminated tho
He would've been eliminated one way or another in an extremely one-sided fashion. Get over it.
meh, not necessarily. and that still doesn't stop it from sucking when it happens. that game was nothing but luck. edit: not saying Jaedong couldn't beat him without luck, just that there was nothing but luck in that game.
I think it's much better Boxer got beaten that way so his fans can cling to the hope that he could hang with Jaedong if they played a longer game. If it hadn't been 9 pool > 14 cc Jaedong would have dominated a standard game from start to finish, dashing Boxer's fans hope of a meaningful comeback after Ace.
It isn't called 'hoping'. It's called 'believing'. The Emperor shall rule supreme. Very nice to see JD win this, we can't honestly have 2 MSL's in a row with ugly people winning Props to Kal for putting up a good fight (apparently, waiting for the VODs) but JD is the new cool guy in town.
On March 09 2008 02:20 FeArTeHsCoUrGe wrote: Man, I must say, if Flash didn't exist, Jaedong would have 2 OSL's 1 MSL, and A Gom Invitational to add to his resume.
he didnt meet flash in the finals of the OSL nor the Gom invite and even if he did, he wouldnt have a guaranteed victory against flash's replacement
I would like to point out that in this MSL, Jaedong faced:
WORLD'S BEST TvZ Flash (3-1'd)
WORLD'S BEST ZvZ (other than himself obviously) Luxury (2-0'd)
WORLDS'S BEST PvZ Bisu (1-0'd) , Kal (3-1'd)
he now has the same amount of titles as the semi-dominant people like rA and july -- and with this win it seems like it is indeed flash who is his only competitor.
Jaedong and Flash are heads and tail ahead of the rest, trailed only by Kal and Stork who are still sucking their fumes. This rivalry will be epic, I don't see anyone else touching them for at least several more months (the time it generally takes to practice enough for significant improvement).
Excellent. Now JD will have plenty of time to figure out how to beat Metal Flash on Katrina. Speaking of Flash, you think Stork will take the OSL? He came close in GSI
On March 09 2008 03:42 Danger_Duck wrote: Excellent. Now JD will have plenty of time to figure out how to beat Metal Flash on Katrina. Speaking of Flash, you think Stork will take the OSL? He came close in GSI
On March 09 2008 03:42 Danger_Duck wrote: Excellent. Now JD will have plenty of time to figure out how to beat Metal Flash on Katrina. Speaking of Flash, you think Stork will take the OSL? He came close in GSI
Or just sit there and hope that Katrina wont be used in next OSL
On March 09 2008 03:25 Atrioc wrote: I would like to point out that in this MSL, Jaedong faced:
WORLD'S BEST TvZ Flash (3-1'd)
WORLD'S BEST ZvZ (other than himself obviously) Luxury (2-0'd)
WORLDS'S BEST PvZ Bisu (1-0'd) , Kal (3-1'd)
he now has the same amount of titles as the semi-dominant people like rA and july -- and with this win it seems like it is indeed flash who is his only competitor.
F*ck you JD, I'm so sick of watching Zerg winning tourney after tourney... Hope Flash or someone else playing the other races will whip your ass next time.
On March 09 2008 03:25 Atrioc wrote: I would like to point out that in this MSL, Jaedong faced:
WORLD'S BEST TvZ Flash (3-1'd)
WORLD'S BEST ZvZ (other than himself obviously) Luxury (2-0'd)
WORLDS'S BEST PvZ Bisu (1-0'd) , Kal (3-1'd)
he now has the same amount of titles as the semi-dominant people like rA and july -- and with this win it seems like it is indeed flash who is his only competitor.
5-5 vs flash
1-2 GSI 1-2 OSL 3-1 MSL
Read the whole post plz: I say at the top "in this MSL", and its pretty clear even if you include all 10 games that in pure late-game starcraft managment, Jaedong is leaps and bounds ahead of his terran rival. Early game scouting/cheese reaction, which is already razor precise from Jaedong (see his game on Zodiac against Flash), still could use a little bit of work, but hes still the stronger player.
On March 09 2008 08:35 XiaoLongNuSucks wrote: F*ck you JD, I'm so sick of watching Zerg winning tourney after tourney... Hope Flash or someone else playing the other races will whip your ass next time.
i'm sick of terran winning tourney after tourney after tourney ...........
On March 09 2008 08:35 XiaoLongNuSucks wrote: F*ck you JD, I'm so sick of watching Zerg winning tourney after tourney... Hope Flash or someone else playing the other races will whip your ass next time.
i'm sick of terran winning tourney after tourney after tourney ...........
Jaedong played really really good the 2nd game after losing tons of drones. Was impressed by him that game. Other than that pretty bad series overall. Kal showed his PvZ skills the first game.
On March 09 2008 03:25 Atrioc wrote: I would like to point out that in this MSL, Jaedong faced:
WORLD'S BEST TvZ Flash (3-1'd)
I wouldn't say he is the world's best TvZ but if you put "world's best player (other than himself obviously)" it would have been the correct description.
On March 09 2008 02:20 FeArTeHsCoUrGe wrote: Man, I must say, if Flash didn't exist, Jaedong would have 2 OSL's 1 MSL, and A Gom Invitational to add to his resume.
On March 09 2008 02:20 FeArTeHsCoUrGe wrote: Man, I must say, if Flash didn't exist, Jaedong would have 2 OSL's 1 MSL, and A Gom Invitational to add to his resume.
Playing Bisu in a Bo5 is beyond any Zerg's limit
i would've bet on jaedong tho, with the conviction that he had a GREAT chance to win.
I'd stop short of calling it one of the best series in a while - I thought the Flash/Bisu series in the OSL was better, personally (even though Bisu lost ). It was a very good series though.