Hwasin better cruise through this group easily if he is to actually have a shot at winning the MSL. Pretty easy group honestly. Shine's the only one with a chance to take a game from Hwasin. His record is 10-4 but a lot of his wins were against weak opponents. He does have a noteable win against Sea though. So he poses a threat. I like tvt its a really interesting match up, so I won't complain about tonights games. However I must say tomorrows OSL games are freaking AMAZING. One of the best play days ever imo Hopefully the games live up to the names. Oh and sudyn, Shudder definitely WON'T make it out of this group. If I'm wrong I will personally apologize. I mean he lost to Yooi TWICE=/ Yooi is not exactly a solid TvT player.
Hwasin's weakest MU. He'll need to prove himself as a title contender here, but I would personally like to see him lose, because it'd fire him up to improve his TvT immensely.
On September 27 2007 16:31 HaXxorIzed wrote: Hwasin's weakest MU. He'll need to prove himself as a title contender here, but I would personally like to see him lose, because it'd fire him up to improve his TvT immensely.
14-6 last 20 TvTs.... he needs to improve his TvT immensely
On September 27 2007 16:31 HaXxorIzed wrote: Hwasin's weakest MU. He'll need to prove himself as a title contender here, but I would personally like to see him lose, because it'd fire him up to improve his TvT immensely.
14-6 last 20 TvTs.... he needs to improve his TvT immensely
From his play it's by far his weakest MU with TvZ being his best.
On September 27 2007 16:31 HaXxorIzed wrote: Hwasin's weakest MU. He'll need to prove himself as a title contender here, but I would personally like to see him lose, because it'd fire him up to improve his TvT immensely.
14-6 last 20 TvTs.... he needs to improve his TvT immensely
From his play it's by far his weakest MU with TvZ being his best.
his career TvT stats don't mean anything, because the original comment i responded to said that hwasin needs to improve his TvT, when it is clear that within the past year or so hwasin has already done so.
the vast majority of his TvT losses come from 2005. we're near the end of 2007. in those 14 wins he's beaten yooi, 910, justin, light, flash, sheis, nada, midas, and darkelf. 70% is "by far his weakest"? and yes, i've watched most of his recent games. it appears to me that he plays a very nice TvT.
TvZ the only matchup that people give him credit for, and he's 15-5 out of his last 20 matches. wait a second, there's not much different between that and 14-6!
on a side note, his TvP is 13-7 last 20 games. (8-2 last 10).
think about it, there is a reason why OGN and MBC only show the last 10 A-matches played when introducing players. what's the point of bringing up losses from 2 or 3 years ago? are those losses indicative in any way of his current form?
On September 27 2007 16:31 HaXxorIzed wrote: Hwasin's weakest MU. He'll need to prove himself as a title contender here, but I would personally like to see him lose, because it'd fire him up to improve his TvT immensely.
14-6 last 20 TvTs.... he needs to improve his TvT immensely
From his play it's by far his weakest MU with TvZ being his best.
his career TvT stats don't mean anything, because the original comment i responded to said that hwasin needs to improve his TvT, when it is clear that within the past year or so hwasin has already done so.
the vast majority of his TvT losses come from 2005. we're near the end of 2007. in those 14 wins he's beaten yooi, 910, justin, light, flash, sheis, nada, midas, and darkelf. 70% is "by far his weakest"? and yes, i've watched most of his recent games. it appears to me that he plays a very nice TvT.
TvZ the only matchup that people give him credit for, and he's 15-5 out of his last 20 matches. wait a second, there's not much different between that and 14-6!
on a side note, his TvP is 13-7 last 20 games. (8-2 last 10).
think about it, there is a reason why OGN and MBC only show the last 10 A-matches played when introducing players. what's the point of bringing up losses from 2 or 3 years ago? are those losses indicative in any way of his current form?
it's illogical tlpd abuse at its best, everyone who has seen hwasin play lately knows he's on form in all matchups
On September 27 2007 16:31 HaXxorIzed wrote: Hwasin's weakest MU. He'll need to prove himself as a title contender here, but I would personally like to see him lose, because it'd fire him up to improve his TvT immensely.
14-6 last 20 TvTs.... he needs to improve his TvT immensely
From his play it's by far his weakest MU with TvZ being his best.
his career TvT stats don't mean anything, because the original comment i responded to said that hwasin needs to improve his TvT, when it is clear that within the past year or so hwasin has already done so.
the vast majority of his TvT losses come from 2005. we're near the end of 2007. in those 14 wins he's beaten yooi, 910, justin, light, flash, sheis, nada, midas, and darkelf. 70% is "by far his weakest"? and yes, i've watched most of his recent games. it appears to me that he plays a very nice TvT.
TvZ the only matchup that people give him credit for, and he's 15-5 out of his last 20 matches. wait a second, there's not much different between that and 14-6!
on a side note, his TvP is 13-7 last 20 games. (8-2 last 10).
think about it, there is a reason why OGN and MBC only show the last 10 A-matches played when introducing players. what's the point of bringing up losses from 2 or 3 years ago? are those losses indicative in any way of his current form?
I agree with you in most parts. We should only see statistic of the current year. Its a far better way to judge performances of players. sAviOr for example has a really bad year. :O
Edit: Is it already on? Sc2 doesn't work for me :O
You'd think it'd be common sense to examine current form or refrain from posting. Stuff that happened a year ago is no indication of what could happen tonight
/sigh. I should have expected people would get fired up over that. Probably too ambiguous a comment anyway.
I merely believe Hwasin's weakest MU is his TvT. Nobody has been able to handle savior as effectively as he has and apart from the inform and absolutely brilliant at ZvT Jaedong, nobody has flummoxed him lately in TvZ. His TvP has been (as stated) 8/2 in his last 10 games.
If any of you remembered his last series of games versus Bisu in the MSL, his TvP seemed to begin to improve after Bisu gave him a thrashing, calling him the guarantee for group progression if NaDa managed to beat him (Bisu). Hwasin's TvP then took Bisu to five games (yes, it was rather lackluster from Bisu but it was an improvement from Hwasin) and now he's really broken out some great play, ie 2:1ing Stork and the actual 8:2 streak itself.
As I've noted above, when he lost hard in TvP and was basically toyed with by Bisu, his TvP abilities shot up and he seems to be stating "NEVER FUCKING AGAIN". His TvT is believe to be his weakest matchup of the three, although he's become much more balanced of late. I also believe it could become absolutely-bloody-iris-stopping fearsome with the right motivation (And that's what I'd like to see) and that would Make Hwasin one hell of a title contender beyond the force he is already. And given what happened to his TvP, I am wondering quite openly if a TvT loss here would cause a similar leap in ability.
On September 27 2007 18:39 HaXxorIzed wrote: /sigh. I should have expected people would get fired up over that. Probably too ambiguous a comment anyway.
I merely believe Hwasin's weakest MU is his TvS. Nobody has been able to handle savior as effectively as he has and apart from the inform and absolutely brilliant at ZvT Jaedong, nobody has flummoxed him lately in TvZ. His TvP has been (as stated) 8/2 in his last 10 games.
If any of you remembered his last series of games versus Bisu in the MSL, his TvP seemed to begin to improve after Bisu gave him a thrashing, calling him the guarantee for group progression if NaDa managed to beat him (Bisu). Hwasin's TvP then took Bisu to five games (yes, it was rather lackluster from Bisu but it was an improvement from Hwasin) and now he's really broken out some great play, ie 2:1ing Stork and the actual 8:2 streak itself.
So yes, I'll state Hwasin's TvT is his weakest MU. And as I've noted above, when he lost hard in TvP and was basically toyed with by Bisu, his TvP abilities shot up and he seems to be stating "NEVER FUCKING AGAIN". His TvT is his weakest matchup, that's what I am saying. I believe it could become absolutely-bloody-iris-stopping fearsome with the right motivation (And that's what I'd like to see), is right and that would Make Hwasin one hell of a title contender beyond the force he is already, period. And given what happened to his TvT, I am wondering quite openly if a TvT loss here would cause a similar leap in ability.
Everyone happy now?
only my first initial remark was geared towards you. the rest was towards HellAngel for that gross misuse of TLPD
Looks like HwaSin wants to push Shudder with 3 tanks and a few vultures + wraith. Looks good for HwaSin, his expo is running and he can pressure with wraiths.
2 more Factories for HwaSin as well as for Shudder. More dropships for HwaSin, but Shudder is kind of save now. Good scouting by HwaSin, spreading his marines seeing drops that could come.
Mind chases the first rines with 3 scvs while 1 blocks the narrow passage, Shine's 3 rines kill a couple scvs and force mind back. 4 scvs 2 rines defending main. Shine runs back to a bunker on the high ground.
SHine pressures again but is turned back by 4 scvs and 3 rines. PROXY RAX started on the high ground! Shine also walls with his flaoted rax and a supply depot + bunker. Lol nice build.
Shine is down to like 4 scvs but pressuring at front with a few tanks. However another vult arrives at the min line and 2 wraiths from mind shoot down the 1 wriath of shine, a 3rd wraith comes out and Shine GGs.
On September 27 2007 19:15 yubee wrote: it looked pretty much like mind had dealt with that in practice quite a bit. he didn't hesitate for a second when contained and worked around it
Absolutely. Although I believe if Shine had pumped vults for a while instead of adding on and going for tanks, he would have been able to do a lot more damage.
Hwasin with 4 rines at the ramp...looks to be a safe build. As the vult cant do much. Hwasin blocks the ramp with an scv just to be safe. Mind's CC down, Hwasin with a starport completing.
2 wraiths heading for Minds base who has 3 tanks 2 goliaths and 2 scanners. The wraiths cloak and fly to the rear natural. They get 4 Scvs kills before energy runs out and hwasin runs away. Hwasin macroing up to 4 facts. Mind adding 2 more himself but looking a little behind. Oh he catc hwasin's wraith a little off guard firing at the mind's rax but hwasin reacts well cloaking the closest one and running away saving them both.
A turret takes down 1 wraith as they scout his base. Hwasin moving out and so is mind! Min scans the high ground, sees hwasin and runs back to the open middle to set up his defensive position against a larger tank army. They reach a stale mate and hwasin loses a dropship to 2 gols!
Hwasin moving forward again. Mind has 3 dropships loading...Hwasin and mind's armies meeet!, Huge battle with all of minds dropships unloading on hwasins tanks. The result is a massive trade off of units with mind comming ahead by 1 damaged gol and tank.
Mind moving with 4 dropships...runs into twasins 3... Oh they unload at Hwasins nat! but 3 dropships come and save it with scvs being pulled to help. Nicely down by hwasin. He has his min only running by the way Mind up to 6 facts.
Hwasin starting a cc in the upper left, Mind in the bottom right. Almost the exact same time too, funny Hwasin has another gas expansion cc down at 6 but no scvs there. 5 dropships tiwards hwasins forward gas nat. Incredibly hes ready for it and defends with some scvs loses.
Hwasin rebuilding at 6 and has a small army there! Re enforcements come and clear the 7 dropship treat. This is pretty intense. Another drop from mind kills the 6 cc again. Mind moving out. Mind Still has Hwasin tanks and gols outside his forward nat but as for now they arent moving in.
5 dropships moving for hwasin...where will he go? He scans the middle of the map and sees Minds army. He's moving to engage it seems. He moves in! a large push with a 5 dropship drop as minds dropships swoop in to reenforce. Its not enough as hwasin is too strong winning by like 6 tanks and a gol. 7 dropships moving to drop agian though ... they drop RIGHT ON hwasins seiged tanks and take them all out.
A counter drop from hwasin clears this army. But Mind is comming with another army and 7 dropships again....Mind drops on the high ground and hwasin back soff. Hwasin moving to kill the 6 that mind has now taken but looks like hes in trouble at the moment.
Wow mind with 10 dropships, drops 7 of them on hwasin army, but hwasin STILL comes out on top. Hes taking out the forward gas natural of Mind. I was wrong hwasin is not in trouble Mind's base at 6 is going down and so is his base in the far right corner! Hwasin showing great macro. Mind has many dropships but they are never all full
Hwasin taking 11. As well as 6 and has 7 dropship full of his own. Min snipes a dropship...hwasin, loses the expansion attempt t 11. Hwasin moves his army to clear the high ground encampment of hwasin in the middle!
And hwasin kill yet another mind CC at 11. Mind looks to be out of gas as he is massing vults And they get blown apart by Hwasin and Mind ggs. Hwasin gives a little bow the crowd and calmly walks off stage. That was actually a really great TvT. Hwasin played awesome, his units seemed to come from no where, always being nearby whereever Mind would drop.
The main difficulty was that blue and green look exactly the same on the mini map at that resolution. And even the main screen its hard to tell when you only get a quick look.
I dont know which color is which because steve distracted me...Red's 4 rines are chasing the poor defenseless baracks. Red going up to 4 facts as cloak is researched by Yellow. Red kills the barracks ...well at least he will.
Interesting...yellow is building facts himself now. Going up to 4. 3 wraiths out for yellow. They fly over 3 red tanks/vults and 4 rines. They cloak and slowly kill stuff...very very slowly. A tank goes down. Another! A marine! Ahh cloak is running off...LOL the 3 vults lay mines and come close to killing a bunch of scvs with a mine by a tank sames them..and itself. Red has academy done and scanner morphing. Yellow is contained by mines but has 6 or so wraiths flying around. They start popping scvs at the rear nat of red. However red chases them off quickly with a fwe gols. Oh red going big and taking his min only and the gas expansion at 6 at the same time.
Thanks lol. Shine needs to make a move as he still doesnt have dropships and shudder will have the eco advantage soon. Ah Shine moving out! A large amounf of vults run in OMG AWEOSE MINE PLACEMENT KILLS ALL OF SHINES TANKS IN THE BUNCH, 8 or more.
Hah 1 red wraith firing on the cc that floats above the highground battlefield . Shudder pressuring with 5 or so tanks..but I dont know wher he thinks hes going. Probably just trying to slow down progress towards his front nat. Oh scvs tnks gults and gols trying to breat the Shine contain! They get through the first group by even more tanks on the high ground stop it in its tracks. Shdder has like 10 tanks though. However Shine is going macro crazy. He has 2 .. and his min only. And hes starting ccs at both corners
Shudder sees with scan how fucked he is and GGs His army was smaller and he was down a number of expos. Shines excellent tank/wraith use gave him a lot of free kills. Also shudder overexpanded slightly, leading to him being dominated
2 Rines chasing the scout of shine. Shine Ccs after starting a vult Annnd Mind starts his machine shop and CCs at his nat as well. Looks like I was right;)
2nd fact down for mind after his cc and his shop is spinng. Shine has made a bunker, but didnt quite finish it. Since no early pressure comes, he cancels it. Second fact started for shine.
2 marines chase mind's rax. Armory down with a starport for Shine. Mind can only see the 2 rax. OH 4 vults with mines come in and seal off the nat of shine! Awesome build from Mind as hes still mining with his nat. Shine trying to creep forward with just tanks! Nice micro from shine to get back to his nat and start mining He clears mines very well by creeping forward and by sacraficing his 2 marines to clear some mines. And just as I say that he loses a tank to a mine...oh well
Start port with addon done for both players. Mines claim another goliath. Mind is up to 4 facts while shine is starting a cc at the back of his base. Looking to float the island.
3 gol drop moving out..most likely looking to deny the island. An scv from mind has just cleared the mineral patch there. The dropship checks 6 first..kills an scv there. Oh a drop from mind lands with 4 gols behind the min line! They fire at a shine dropshp...oo barely survives in the red.
Shine didnt take out the scv at the corner island...a mistake I think. Its now starting a cc there. 3 dropships moving from mind. Oh shne is ready with 3 dropships of his own. Mind runs. Island CC done for shine.
Mind looking strong moving in with 4 dropships + army. A scouting scv see this though! 4 shine dropships looking to clear the threat. Mind drops 4 dropships right by the nat CC! Shine pulls all scvs from the nat and loses them all! He does manage to clear the mind threat from the nat for now.. Mind is loading up again and looking to drop. Shine is moving out from his nat towards Mind's nat! Mind returns his dropships and Shine moves towards the expo at 6. His dropships see minds though and his army returns! Battle near the middle, MInd dominates! Mind definitely looking like the better player today. Dropships headed to Shines undefended island!
9 goliaths wipe it out. Mind also has a base at the upper left corner done and also at 6. But shine attacks this with 1 gol and drops the rest of his 4 dropship sized load at the upper right island.
Mind clears the goliath, and then handles the rest of shine army ferried up from the island to 6. Anther 4 dropships from shine loading up. Shine also starting a base int he lower right corner. 4 Dropships land at 6! Theyll take down the CC? 4 Dropships from mind save the cc in time!
Shine is moving out with a small army but its crushed with a drop from mind. Shine looks to be struggling. Large drop in the main of Shine! Above the facts.....Shine has nothing in his base to defend! Hes in trouble!
Mind's 1 fact cc into 4 vult with mines timing attack to delay Shine's cc made all the difference. That was a sick build. I will be stealing it for TvT on python
Thanks for the vods baezzi, I always watch all of them. I see you can upload vids longer than 10 min too now so you don't have to fragment them anymore, awesome!