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On April 21 2021 16:08 Rus_Brain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2021 08:35 ZZZero.O wrote:
One player wins. If two or more players will get over 2700 MMR, player with least amount of games wins. Small remark. We have not discussed that with ZZZero which caused confusion. I'm eager to pay everyone who get 2,700+ whichever amount of players that should be, provided that such player takes part in BSL.
I misunderstood this rule of Rus_Brain then:
*Those who made 2,700 are considered to meet minimal games goal, whatever score they have.
It's even greater then, the competition is still going on.
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About Scan and Marwin situation.
I have talked with both of them and tried to understand their point of view and mindset.
Marwin perspective tldr:
Scan was helping him with his builds, game play + they are friends, so he didn't see a problem in sharing account, he thought that it will serve a greater good (supporting and promoting BSL) and didn't expect that it will break any rules.
Scans perspective tldr:
He wanted to support BSL by playing on BSL account, but didn't want to create one on his own account, because then everyone would know that it's him. (Korean getting above 2700 MMR is nothing great).
My perspective:
Scan is not allowed to play in BSL anyway, so I'm looking at this situation only from Marwin perspective. No matter how bad this situation looks, Marwin didn't break any BSL rules(If Scan didn't play any of his BSL12-M games) (I'm not counting Blizzard End User Licence Agreement). We are allowing people to play on smurfs if they will report that to us. He wasn't playing in BSL12 on smurf on his account and Scan didn't register to BSL-website.
My mistake was to not read this thread carefully - I was having days off because of my 30 bdays and was only organizing and streaming BSL tours and added promo posts, not much more. So they could assume that since I do not react to this situation, their behaviour is completely OK. Only after reading Szinkler's post I realized what's going on and started acting.
Most important questions imo
1. How do we know that Scan wasn't playing on Marwin BSL Account ?
I got all the replays from BSL12-M (Marwin) ladder and all the replays from BSL12-NotMarwin (Scan) - will compare them today evening.
2. How do we know that Scan will not play for Marwin if Marwin will qualify to BSL12 ?
Well, we never can't be sure with anyone about that. But in this situation since I have plenty of Scans and Marwins replays, it will be much easier to discover by binds.
3. Am I the person to punish people for sharing their Blizzard account ?
Definitely not, I'm not in the position nor have resources to do it.
4. Am I the person to punish people for sharing their Blizzard account while playing BSL ?
Definitely yes. I banned players for that already(And will ban). But they were actually playing for someone else to qualify to BSL, registered on website and were trying to hide it, during the explanations they denied until I showed proof etc.
3. Are all these circumstances mitigating enough that I should not ban Marwin from BSL ?
In my opinion yes. Probably will get punished by some blood thirsty fans, but that's my decision.
Maybe I'm naive but Marwin and Scan seems honest to me while I was investigating this situation. They did what they did and they are aware of it. I consider it as a stupid mistake, because I don't see anything bad in Scan creating his BSL12 account and playin on it, the bad thing was that he used account of someone who was also playing in BSL. Anyway, they weren't trying to hide anything from me, when I started asking questions, they provided me with all the info, answered all my questions, sent replays and screenshots right away.(Scan could not care, since he is not allowed to play in BSL, but he shared all 74 replays anyway). They also told me that If I will tell them to stop they will and they will never do it again.
This situation shows lacks and holes in BSL Rules. I'm always trying to make rules which I will be able to implement, every added rule requires time to enforce it. But not adding some of them is only my mistake, I learn about things I didn't think of every season. I do believe that these are also downsides of ladder qualifications, no matter how much much better it is than regular qualifiers(for players skill). If we will ever come back with Season 13, then qualifications will be only on real nicknames, smurfs will not be allowed, because it opens up area for abuse. I will also need to update BSL rules significantly.
If I will discover something weird in the replays, I will get back here.
I hope my English was good enough to explain what was my though process.
Cheers,
Edit 1.
Scan's perspective quote:
"I'm not planning to break rules and join foreign leagues. I read rules carefully and join the only tournaments that are ALLOWED. I have no bad intention to mess around your BSL tournament. All I wanted were
1) inspiration for BSL players to play more ladder
2) putting BSL tag name on the top ladder rank(Korean community will be curious foreign ID on top rank list)
3) ID was created on April 8th. $1000 challenge was announced later on"
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On April 21 2021 23:39 ZZZero.O wrote:
About Scan and Marwin situation.
I have talked with both of them and tried to understand their point of view and mindset.
Marwin perspective tldr:
Scan was helping him with his builds, game play + they are friends, so he didn't see a problem in sharing account, he thought that it will serve a greater good (supporting and promoting BSL) and didn't expect that it will break any rules.
Scans perspective tldr:
He wanted to support BSL by playing on BSL account, but didn't want to create one on his own account, because then everyone would know that it's him. (Korean getting above 2700 MMR is nothing great).
My perspective:
Scan is not allowed to play in BSL anyway, so I'm looking at this situation only from Marwin perspective. No matter how bad this situation looks, Marwin didn't break any BSL rules(If Scan didn't play any of his BSL12-M games) (I'm not counting Blizzard End User Licence Agreement). We are allowing people to play on smurfs if they will report that to us. He wasn't playing in BSL12 on smurf on his account and Scan didn't register to BSL-website.
My mistake was to not read this thread carefully - I was having days off because of my 30 bdays and was only organizing and streaming BSL tours and added promo posts, not much more. So they could assume that since I do not react to this situation, their behaviour is completely OK. Only after reading Szinkler's post I realized what's going on and started acting.
Most important questions imo
1. How do we know that Scan wasn't playing on Marwin BSL Account ?
I got all the replays from BSL12-M (Marwin) ladder and all the replays from BSL12-NotMarwin (Scan) - will compare them today evening.
2. How do we know that Scan will not play for Marwin if Marwin will qualify to BSL12 ?
Well, we never can't be sure with anyone about that. But in this situation since I have plenty of Scans and Marwins replays, it will be much easier to discover by binds.
3. Am I the person to punish people for sharing their Blizzard account ?
Definitely not, I'm not in the position nor have resources to do it.
4. Am I the person to punish people for sharing their Blizzard account while playing BSL ?
Definitely yes. I banned players for that already(And will ban). But they were actually playing for someone else to qualify to BSL, registered on website and were trying to hide it, during the explanations they denied until I showed proof etc.
3. Are all these circumstances mitigating enough that I should not ban Marwin from BSL ?
In my opinion yes. Probably will get punished by some blood thirsty fans, but that's my decision.
Maybe I'm naive but Marwin and Scan seems honest to me while I was investigating this situation. They did what they did and they are aware of it. I consider it as a stupid mistake, because I don't see anything bad in Scan creating his BSL12 account and playin on it, the bad thing was that he used account of someone who was also playing in BSL. Anyway, they weren't trying to hide anything from me, when I started asking questions, they provided me with all the info, answered all my questions, sent replays and screenshots right away.(Scan could not care, since he is not allowed to play in BSL, but he shared all 74 replays anyway). They also told me that If I will tell them to stop they will and they will never do it again.
This situation shows lacks and holes in BSL Rules. I'm always trying to make rules which I will be able to implement, every added rule requires time to enforce it. But not adding some of them is only my mistake, I learn about things I didn't think of every season. I do believe that these are also downsides of ladder qualifications, no matter how much much better it is than regular qualifiers(for players skill). If we will ever come back with Season 13, then qualifications will be only on real nicknames, smurfs will not be allowed, because it opens up area for abuse. I will also need to update BSL rules significantly.
If I will discover something weird in the replays, I will get back here.
I hope my English was good enough to explain what was my though process.
Cheers,
Very well handled! The Perfect Admin does it again :D
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From the facts you represented, i'd come to the same conclusion if i had to make that choice.
I think its a good idea to not allow smurf in the future for the same reasons you pointed out.
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
@ZZZero since everyone here already knows that bsl12-notmarwin is not a Marwin, and account not subject to enter the tournament it's fine.
Admins possess additional information now that Scan may be playing on Marwin's account. This implies extra labor on admins if Marwin will patriciate in BSL and qualify. Extra labour to get all replays and check whether it was Marwin playing indeed. Now the case is short to this:
- an extra labor is very unwanted and should have been avoided => enact a ban,
- an extra labor is insignificant and negligible => dismiss the case.
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A point that would be interesting to look at is the fact that the "hidden" MMR of your Battlenet account is shared on all your SC ones, meaning if you re S rank and make a 2nd account, you ll play at around the same MMR, as opposed to a "truly new" account.
So if Scan played after Marwin already played all his games/had his placement I guess it s fine. But otherwise it would make Marwin play higher level opponents faster, thereby getting placed higher as a result after those 5 games (I m sorry if this is unclear).
Agreed that this may or may not be relevant given the number of games required, but there is indeed a relationship between Scan and Marwin s account that way.
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I think the solution is pretty simple: let's forget about this.
And to Scan and Marwin: That's not funny, so don't do it again.
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On April 15 2021 22:10 Szinkler wrote:
Pff... Says a lot about the 2 players (no news from Scan's side ofc). I'm wondering whether (others) defending Marwin in BWCL was justified or not. This kind of behaviour makes you think...
Dude , please.
Ran into you countless times on ladder and u ALWAYS bitch and insult me randomly.
U want to talk about behaviour and what is right? xD
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On April 21 2021 19:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
2722 MMR and he still loss to terror 0-5 and vs bonyth 0-3 .Weird shit tbh . Mb bonyth and terror are 3k MMR xd
U can watch the games in his stream 😁
Its ok yo say congratz
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Hey Rus_Brain
Would you mind extending the deadline for the challange for additional period of time or until the ladder season finishes? I was 35 away from 2700 and couldn't make it due to short challange time. My father half asks you of this, since I'm sure u know how much time kids can devour.
Hope to see positive answer in the morning : )
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Russian Federation1893 Posts
On April 25 2021 08:56 Bonyth wrote:
Hey Rus_Brain
Would you mind extending the deadline for the challange for additional period of time or until the ladder season finishes? Let's extend until the Victory Day ☺️
Consider that your birthday present 
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This is truly a victory, and now it's up to me to make it a double victory = )
Thanks for the present. I'm just wondering, if u just happened to answer me today, or perhaps saw the post in the past, checked how old of a father i am before replying, and then saw an opportunity to give me the answer later :D
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EPT
