19:30 Wednesday 18th July 2007, Daum OnGameNet Starleague 3rd Place Match
Stork[gm] (P-Samsung) vs By.Flash (T-KTF)
Winner takes the desirable 3rd seed.
After a tough grueling season both players are tired, both players want to secure their spot for the next season, and you can count on it- both players will bring their top game to avoid the 4rth seed battle of survival.
Loser will face Rock on the 20th in the Star Challenge semi-finals, of which the winner will face Jaedong (after he decimates Yooi and destroys all his remains) on the 25th in the Star Challenge finals, for the 4rth seed!
Round of 8 (video) Flash > Bisu @ Hitchhiker (video) Flash > Bisu @ Monty Hall (Interview) Flash advances to Semi-Finals
Semi-Finals Flash < GGPlay @ Fantasy Flash > GGPlay @ Hitchhiker Flash > GGPlay @ Python Flash < GGPlay @ Monty Hall Flash < GGPlay @ Fantasy (Video Set 1-3) (Video Set 4-5) And so, Flash must fight Stork for the 3rd Seed.
Round of 8 (video) Stork < Reach @ Monty Hall (video) Stork > Reach @ MongHwan (video) Stork > Reach @ Python Stork advances to Semi-Finals
Semi-Finals Stork < Iris @ Monty Hall Stork < Iris @ Hitchhiker Stork < Iris @ MongHwan (Full Set Video) And so, Stork must fight Flash for the 3rd Seed.
Set 1 @ Python Set 2 @ Hitchhiker Set 3 @ Monty Hall Set 4 @ Fantasy Set 5 @ Python
As much as I'd like Flash to win, I think Stork will take it. Not only because of Stork's sweet PvT (Flash has great TvP according to his stats, too), but because Flash is too young and inexperienced. He was most likely hoping to become a royal roader, but he got crushed by GGplay on the way - so he has lost quite a bit of his morale, which in turn will greatly affect his game, as common with young talents. His lack of experience and most importantly, endurance (in a PvT bo5), may cost him the 3rd seed.
On the other hand, Stork is also tired, and demoralized after his loss against Bisu.
I'll still cheer for him though, and I hope he fucking rapes Stork
Not really...Python is more or less balanced, Monty Hall depends on who you ask (I think it's more T > P than the other way around), Hitchhiker allows for Terran to abuse cliffs and tight spaces and whatnot, and Fantasy is a toss-up.
In any case, go Flash! If not royal road, get a guaranteed shot at the record of "youngest OSL champion" next season =D
On July 16 2007 12:48 XCetron wrote: Bisu > Stork 3-2 Flash > Bisu 2-0 So Flash > Stork 3-1 at best cording to this calculation
You're bad at math, the result is Strok > Falsh 3-0
And you're bad at spelling.
He's also bad at math.
Flash > Bisu (2:0) Bisu > Stork (3:2)
This only means that Flash should beat Stork with a score better than 3:2 (since his skill level is greater than Bisu's). How are you getting definite numbers from this?
If Flash had dropped a game or two to Bisu, then we could get a definite calculation. But the zero makes that impossible. (Unless it means that Flash is infinitely better than Bisu, which means he's infinitely better than Stork). 3:0.
On July 16 2007 16:06 minus_human wrote: Giving another thought, I'm almost sure we will have a cheese-mania from both players
Not sure about that. 3rd seed is huge! Niether of them wants to face Rock and Jaedong for the 4rth seed (you can obviously know that both of them will train nonstop day and night until they drop, to get that seed).. and falling to ODT would be disastrous. Flash might try some cheese :-) Strok will play like he always plays, and if Flash tries something fishy he'll destroy him just like he destroyed FBH in those first two games.
On July 16 2007 12:48 XCetron wrote: Bisu > Stork 3-2 Flash > Bisu 2-0 So Flash > Stork 3-1 at best cording to this calculation
You're bad at math, the result is Strok > Falsh 3-0
And you're bad at spelling.
He's also bad at math.
Flash > Bisu (2:0) Bisu > Stork (3:2)
This only means that Flash should beat Stork with a score better than 3:2 (since his skill level is greater than Bisu's). How are you getting definite numbers from this?
If Flash had dropped a game or two to Bisu, then we could get a definite calculation. But the zero makes that impossible. (Unless it means that Flash is infinitely better than Bisu, which means he's infinitely better than Stork). 3:0.
actually instead of doing stupid math calculations you could examine the players and the map draw instead!!!!!!!!! u know make an informed choice instead of a bunch of stupid bullshit!!!!!!!!
If Stork lose to 2 factory build again....I will fucking hate him for life. ^^ I'm curious..as someone say, in 5 game match, prevent Flash-people come to OSL Finals? Flash should not win, or prove me wrong with amazing series;;
random note, Korean new football coach suck. WHY LOSE TO BURAIN? gg
On July 16 2007 12:48 XCetron wrote: Bisu > Stork 3-2 Flash > Bisu 2-0 So Flash > Stork 3-1 at best cording to this calculation
You're bad at math, the result is Strok > Falsh 3-0
And you're bad at spelling.
He's also bad at math.
Flash > Bisu (2:0) Bisu > Stork (3:2)
This only means that Flash should beat Stork with a score better than 3:2 (since his skill level is greater than Bisu's). How are you getting definite numbers from this?
If Flash had dropped a game or two to Bisu, then we could get a definite calculation. But the zero makes that impossible. (Unless it means that Flash is infinitely better than Bisu, which means he's infinitely better than Stork). 3:0.
actually instead of doing stupid math calculations you could examine the players and the map draw instead!!!!!!!!! u know make an informed choice instead of a bunch of stupid bullshit!!!!!!!!
Or you can think... on the other hand you can be fakesteve!
On July 16 2007 12:48 XCetron wrote: Bisu > Stork 3-2 Flash > Bisu 2-0 So Flash > Stork 3-1 at best cording to this calculation
You're bad at math, the result is Strok > Falsh 3-0
And you're bad at spelling.
He's also bad at math.
Flash > Bisu (2:0) Bisu > Stork (3:2)
This only means that Flash should beat Stork with a score better than 3:2 (since his skill level is greater than Bisu's). How are you getting definite numbers from this?
If Flash had dropped a game or two to Bisu, then we could get a definite calculation. But the zero makes that impossible. (Unless it means that Flash is infinitely better than Bisu, which means he's infinitely better than Stork). 3:0.
actually instead of doing stupid math calculations you could examine the players and the map draw instead!!!!!!!!! u know make an informed choice instead of a bunch of stupid bullshit!!!!!!!!
Stop being a whiny bitch.
I was just making fun of them for trying to predict a score based on two matchups.
Hope flash takes this, why is there so much hate toward a 15 year old well mannered kid that is going to high school and has advanced to the semi-finals of OSL. Plus, his style of playing is reminiscent of Boxer, although he is not nearly as polished and consistent. That will come with time.
On July 16 2007 19:02 Hot_Bid wrote: stork should refuse to research goon range upgrade in all 5 of the games just to see if he can win so he has an excuse for losing
On July 17 2007 23:35 Guybrush wrote: If Stork plays like he did vs Iris he'll lose, if he plays like hes done the rest of his PvTs this season he'll win.
I think Stork played it the same all the time. 2 Fac pressure is just a good counter to his style.
As long as Stork plays his standard game Flash will win. But I think because of Flashs lack of experience he wont be able to counter anything unexpected by Stork.
To get this far you have to live and breath Starcraft for 4 years, i don't think there is anything that could be that unexpected when you realise they have played probably hundreds of thousands of games.
On July 18 2007 01:59 ContrailNZ wrote: To get this far you have to live and breath Starcraft for 4 years, i don't think there is anything that could be that unexpected when you realise they have played probably hundreds of thousands of games.
You're totally wrong. Progamers predict enemies movements even more than us casual gamers. Even though they've played against every BO they still expect a certain style of play from their opponents and counter accordingly (especially since they prepare so much for a match) - thus obviously Flash might be put off by Storks unorthodox play if this was to happen.
And Flash is just a kid, Birdtoss will show him the real Protoss power!
To get this far you have to live and breath Starcraft for 4 years, i don't think there is anything that could be that unexpected when you realise they have played probably hundreds of thousands of games.
I d agree with you. But they have different training methods. I think both players watch a lot of games of their opponents. They try to analyse the style of them and then plan to come up with BOs and stuff which counter this style the best way possible. Flash is only 15 and he hasn't by far Storks experience. I think if Stork does something like fast Carrier, which I dont remember he ever did, Flash would get nervous what could cost him the game. I dont think that an 15 year old is able to cope with such unexpected thing in such a great event well enough to beat an opponent with Sorks caliber no matter how long or how often he plays Starcraft.
I was browsing the Daum website, and main page suddently showed a picture of 'sAviOr vs Reach' with today's date attached on it, then when I refreshed it changed back to Stork vs Flash... odd. Is there some kind of showmatch coming soon?
just an ideea: can we have 2 live reporters, one for each race? i think it would be better for the readers (more detailed reports) and for the ones reporting (less stress ) anyway, let the gg's pour.
Ehh, does anyone who uses Pot player know what that thing beside the volume does? I just set it to .882 and I hope I didn't screw up anything
Edit: Sweet, figured out that it affected the speed that you view at. Say you are buffering mad, move the thing a tad slower and you can view it around the same speed but without the buffering
I love the calender and i love all the links to tvants and the ogn player - and i never thought watching live starcraft could be that easy thank you all!!!
Robotics coming in for Stork. Command Center for Flash. Floating Barracks sees the Robotics. Still no observatory as far as I see. Nexus begun for Stork. And now a Robotics Support Bay. Barracks chased away by Stork's goons. Flash pushing with 2 tanks and around 4 rines. Flash's CC is done and floats down to the nat. Turrets are being built for Flash.
Flash's push heads back home. First reaver drop is a dead scarab for Stork. Stork probing for a soft spot to drop his Reaver, but he can't find one. Nexus begun at 7 main. In fact it's actually finished now.
Flash sort of turtling, but moves a large contingent of vultures out. They own up Stork's natural. Goons dying to Mines and vults left and right. Stork clears up the mess, but at a large loss of probes and goons. Looking good for Flash right now. An attempted reaver drop gets blasted by sieged tanks before it can fire a scarab. Flash discovers the expo at 7, but can't get his vultures past the 2 pylon, 1 gateway wall with goons behind it. Flash securing the mineral only, but a battle looks to ensue. Stork retreats before any real shots are taken though.
Flash gets 3 vultures into Stork's main. Sees a starport warped in. Kim Carie is calling for Carriers, but I've yet to see a Fleet Beacon (but no Templar Archives may further his hypothesis).
This game is being won by Flash, easily. More vultures come into Stork's natural, as he can't figure out how to b+c+click with a probe, except in bad positions (as in a spot that can't hit the vultures). Two tanks at the mineral only take out a pylon powering two gateways for Stork. Stork has taken the Bottom left island expo.
Flash catches Stork's army checking for an expo in the upper left corner, and a big battle ensues. Retreating from Stork's side, he drops 4 lots into Flash's nat min line. They do minimum damage, carriers are out for Stork and are harassing Flash's min only min line. The battle in the upper left hand corner ends very favorably for Flash, as he destroys Stork's army. Big army of Tanks and Vults moving towards Stork.
Dark templar now jsut a minor hinderance to Flash, as he just can't afford the scans. However, his lead is so humongous now, that he should sail to victory. Flash destroying 7 main, but I don't think he has seen Stork's island expo, not that it really matters. Stork trying to delay the inevatable with his carriers.
Flash seems more interested in killing interceptors than carriers. Flash has so many expos, it will be hard for Stork to make a dent in his economy with his pestering carriers.
Tank drops on the upper right hand corner, but Stork rebuilt his natural nexus. Now he adds some high templars in with his carrier army. He Storm drops the 8 natural and kills most of the SCVs. Still really no difference in who has the lead. I sincerely believe Flash should just go to eliminate Stork now. However, Stork is still rebuilding really nicely.
Wow Stork is seriously back in the game wtf! However, he has no places to mine either! I don't know how Flash put himself in this situation, but goons and HT's have joined the carriers! Flash has a wtf look on his face!
You guys greatly underestimate 7 carriers. Of course stork was behind..and flash did good damage putting him ahead...but only breifly. Stork was never THAT behind. Simply behind because flash had good timing vs carrier switch. But not quite quick enough.
Bad goliath micro costs him the game. Flash lost so many of them carelessly. He didn`t even target carriers when he had like 20+ goliaths at home. Retarded play by Flash. LOL
Carriers make the game stupid. It's not fun to watch 7 carriers shit on another player, it makes the game look retarded. Too bad that's all protoss players can do in the end game.
On July 18 2007 04:14 boghat wrote: Carriers make the game stupid. It's not fun to watch 7 carriers shit on another player, it makes the game look retarded. Too bad that's all protoss players can do in the end game.
Bad goliath micro costed him the game. Flash lost so many of them carelessly. He didn`t even target carriers when he had like 20+ goliaths at home. Retarded play by Flash. LOL
On a side note, I'm pretty sure Flash didn't know about Stork's 7:00 expo and thus assumed he could win by just shooting blindly at the interceptors until Stork ran out of money.
My stream is like 4 minutes behind :-) From where I was, it looked hopeless, but he made it happen, I think Flash really could have done so much better... He thought he had it I guess. TL lags soooo bad!
By the way props to the guy who gave an example of how stork could win by massing carriers quickly, and how flash would crack under the pressure because of his inexpierence
Hmm seems to be favoring flash...his timing attack should hurt storks expansion...maybe kill it. In the time it took this to post flash forces stork to cancel expo and go up ramp...flash pressuring ramp..takes out 2 goons..loses 4 or so vults. Stork with a stargate..and a robo.
Flash has this one, and this time I don't see any carriers flying . Perfectly timed and executed push, couldn't ask anything better from someone who was clearly rattled at the end of game 1. A reaver is going, but seriously, this push is in Stork's main. Haha, why does Stork even go Reavers? They always shoot duds for him. Ehh, actually Flash may lose, there are a blinking Stargate (shitty grammar, yes I know).
Ahh, Scout comes out. Stork holds the lower left hand corner. Dear gracious, Flash may just have found himself on the losing end of this game as well. I don't know if he has any SCVs. Ah, he does, but not many. He still doesn't know about Stork's expo in the lower left hand corner.
Flash losing tanks to scarab-induced Scout shots. Goons infiltrate Flash's main. Flash holds but the EVIL SCOUT still taking pot shots. Engineering bay finds the Bird's expo. The scout is dangerously close to dying.
Flash, your play has been so perfect! But yet, you still manage to fail. Is this just Stork showing that he is more powerful than we thought? Flash forced to pull SCVs vs. Stork's tanks.
GG. Dear gracious, this is a masterful orchestration by Stork. I don't know how he is winning these games.
I don't have a clue what can be racing through Flash's mind right now. He must seriously believe that these games are unwinnable. He has seriously played a perfect game, and yet he loses to this beauty of gaming by Stork.
On July 18 2007 04:36 hasuprotoss wrote: I don't have a clue what can be racing through Flash's mind right now. He must seriously believe that these games are unwinnable. He has seriously played a perfect game, and yet he loses to this beauty of gaming by Stork.
God damnit flash get your shit togheter! Tons of turrets when you pushed, you where basicaly safe and then you let yourself drop in your mainbase. No defense, no turrets.
Not sure why you guys are riding Storks dick and talking about his good micro with the carriers, when it was Flash's fault for not targeting them. The carriers were next to the gols and he still didn't target them.
The only thing I can think of is that he thought he had the game won and tryed to be slick and kill the interceptors first. Was a piece of shit game imo.
Best PvT so far this year, Stork's micro these 2 games was amazing (yeah Flash's goliath micro in game 1 was terrible but apart from that he's been playing well)
On July 18 2007 04:38 PuertoRican wrote: Not sure why you guys are riding Storks dick and talking about his good micro with the carriers, when it was Flash's fault for not targeting them. The carriers were next to the gols and he still didn't target them.
he didnt know stork had 7 oclock
you can win games that way, by killing interceptors until the protoss runs outta money. flash's income was pretty big and as far as he thought stork was broke sooooo it wasnt poor micro it was deliberate, albeit ill-advised
On July 18 2007 04:37 HaXxorIzed wrote: Where the HELL was this Stork versus Iris? :/
- Iris is better/more experienced than Flash - Stork has trained more against aggressive Terran play - Stork had a bad day back then - Iris had a good day back then - Stork has a good day now - Flash has a bad day now
man i'm really bothered by people who think the semifinal was decided by stork having an off-day and not Iris's perfect timing and execution in all 3 games
give credit where its due you jerks what if iris could see this he would be so upset maybe he would even kill stork and then himself
I figured that since Iris was playing so well Stork just looked weak in comparison, but for some reason Stork just appears/feels/whatever to have a confidence he didn't versus Iris at every stage in this series so far. It's all perception. Iris is just looking powerful, on his amphetamines.
On July 18 2007 04:42 Carnac wrote: if anything you should wanna punch flash
that's right, i cannot believe that this little pathetic fuck eliminated BruceLee[Shield], the new hope for Aiur in hard times with some pathetic cheese builds.
On July 18 2007 04:45 HaXxorIzed wrote: I figured that since Iris was playing so well Stork just looked weak in comparison, but for some reason Stork just appears/feels/whatever to have a confidence he didn't versus Iris at every stage in this series so far.
that's because flash is nowhere near the level iris is currently playing at
On July 18 2007 04:44 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: man i'm really bothered by people who think the semifinal was decided by stork having an off-day and not Iris's perfect timing and execution in all 3 games
give credit where its due you jerks what if iris could see this he would be so upset maybe he would even kill stork and then himself
yes 100% agreed, personally, im a huge stork fan, have been for ages although he was probably tired; i doubt he wouldve won anyway iris was a fucking machine that day, no protoss was going to get in his way in that series imo, iris wanted it more than stork- so much more, and its coming through in his games. Whether he wants it more than GGplay? we'll see...
On July 18 2007 04:42 Carnac wrote: if anything you should wanna punch flash
that's right, i cannot believe that this little pathetic fuck eliminated BruceLee[Shield], the new hope for Aiur in hard times with some pathetic cheese builds.
I feel bad for all Terrans on iCCup, since unfortunately we will see multiple Protoss's try to extend matches trying to pull Storks. And failing miserably.
Anyways game 3 has begun:
Stork Orange Protoss at 11 Flash Red Terran at 5 Map is Monty Hall
On July 18 2007 05:06 Plexa wrote: heh, the brightside is; last terran who got humiliated 3-0 in the 3rd/4th match (Shinhan 2005), went on to win the next OSL (casy btw)
ACTUALLY casy lost a 3rd/4th match to Iris 3-0 and he certainly did not win the starleague after that (because its this one!!!!!!!!!)
On July 18 2007 05:07 boghat wrote: Flash is still great, Stork is just an extremely boring and solid protoss. Actually all protoss seem to be boring lately except Reach.
Stork is boring? did you even watch these games? this was one of the most entertaining series i have seen, simply because stork refused to lose.
Maybe it was because I wanted Flash to win but Carriers going around killing everything is just lame. Stork is pretty boring overall you have to admit; he's really good but he never does anything unorthodox.
On July 18 2007 05:06 Plexa wrote: heh, the brightside is; last terran who got humiliated 3-0 in the 3rd/4th match (Shinhan 2005), went on to win the next OSL (casy btw)
ACTUALLY casy lost a 3rd/4th match to Iris 3-0 and he certainly did not win the starleague after that (because its this one!!!!!!!!!)
I'm not denying Stork is extremely good, I'm just saying he can get a bit boring to watch. Though I admit it was entertaining (not for me) seeing him come back the first two games.
On July 18 2007 05:06 Plexa wrote: heh, the brightside is; last terran who got humiliated 3-0 in the 3rd/4th match (Shinhan 2005), went on to win the next OSL (casy btw)
ACTUALLY casy lost a 3rd/4th match to Iris 3-0 and he certainly did not win the starleague after that (because its this one!!!!!!!!!)
o.O was that bo5? well fuck me
have you ever seen a 3rd/4th place match that wasn't? it was last OSL, Nada vs Casy/Iris vs Savior semis
On July 18 2007 05:06 Plexa wrote: heh, the brightside is; last terran who got humiliated 3-0 in the 3rd/4th match (Shinhan 2005), went on to win the next OSL (casy btw)
ACTUALLY casy lost a 3rd/4th match to Iris 3-0 and he certainly did not win the starleague after that (because its this one!!!!!!!!!)
o.O was that bo5? well fuck me
have you ever seen a 3rd/4th place match that wasn't? it was last OSL, Nada vs Casy/Iris vs Savior semis
didnt they reduce it down to bo3 in Shinhan 1-3 because Ro24 meant 2rd/4th didnt really matter anymore? or was that one season only?
Well, at least we won't see dum goli micro from flash ever again against carriers. Nice to learn these lessons when you are young. Those carriers. On a irrelevant side note, is there a game where a protoss has amassed a 15+ carrier fleet that a terran has won.
On July 18 2007 05:20 Jimtudor wrote: On a irrelevant side note, is there a game where a protoss has amassed a 15+ carrier fleet that a terran has won.
I don't think so. There's that game where boxer countered with optic flare and cloaked wraith but he lost that one too. Lockdown doesn't work either cus of the P ground forces.
Goliath is just a weak counter to mass carriers, unless you have something to use in tandem with it, like emp and then dropship your golis in. I remember seeing that in a game, don't remember who was playing though.
On July 18 2007 05:12 boghat wrote: Maybe it was because I wanted Flash to win but Carriers going around killing everything is just lame. Stork is pretty boring overall you have to admit; he's really good but he never does anything unorthodox.
what is so interesting about Flash to watch?
large groups of units being mismicro'd? bad late game management? i don't think "unorthadoxicity" is a good way to determine how entertaining someone is
you can make anyone out to be boring if you wanted. Flash is new and young and the novelty factor is big, but after that he's not really that entertaining either.
yeah Flash's goliath micro was horrible and his late game decision making was as well, but another reason why i love game 1 was because Flash lost partly because he turtled to 200
anyone Protoss knows the annoyance of having to play against a Terran that is just 100% stubbornly going for max out push, and knowing that at certain positions and maps make it impossible to do anything about it.
well.... Flash could've easily killed stork before he got to Carriers, but instead decided to turtle and look what happens. its a victory for frustrated anti-turtlers everywhere.
On July 18 2007 05:12 boghat wrote: Maybe it was because I wanted Flash to win but Carriers going around killing everything is just lame. Stork is pretty boring overall you have to admit; he's really good but he never does anything unorthodox.
what is so interesting about Flash to watch?
large groups of units being mismicro'd? bad late game management? i don't think "unorthadoxicity" is a good way to determine how entertaining someone is
you can make anyone out to be boring if you wanted. Flash is new and young and the novelty factor is big, but after that he's not really that entertaining either.
You might be right but after watching a bunch of terran/protoss/zerg players that all play similarly, (obviously you must to compete at the progaming level) young novelty goes a long way. Yes I admit his late game has much to be desired and I hope he gets better in the future but maybe by then the novelty will have worn off.
On July 18 2007 05:55 Hot_Bid wrote: yeah Flash's goliath micro was horrible and his late game decision making was as well, but another reason why i love game 1 was because Flash lost partly because he turtled to 200
anyone Protoss knows the annoyance of having to play against a Terran that is just 100% stubbornly going for max out push, and knowing that at certain positions and maps make it impossible to do anything about it.
well.... Flash could've easily killed stork before he got to Carriers, but instead decided to turtle and look what happens. its a victory for frustrated anti-turtlers everywhere.
Ermmmmmmm........ what map that has been played or position is it impossible to do anything about 200/200 turtles?
On July 18 2007 05:55 Hot_Bid wrote: yeah Flash's goliath micro was horrible and his late game decision making was as well, but another reason why i love game 1 was because Flash lost partly because he turtled to 200
anyone Protoss knows the annoyance of having to play against a Terran that is just 100% stubbornly going for max out push, and knowing that at certain positions and maps make it impossible to do anything about it.
well.... Flash could've easily killed stork before he got to Carriers, but instead decided to turtle and look what happens. its a victory for frustrated anti-turtlers everywhere.
Ermmmmmmm........ what map that has been played or position is it impossible to do anything about 200/200 turtles?
Half-half on paranoid android for example. Very hard to win vs a turtling terran unless you get lucky with recalls.
Longinus - hate those hills with all my heart, and it's so easy for terran to secure third. Basicly you're forced to out-macro him - not fun.
Tau Cross - bridges, long ways to run, etc. Hate PvT on it also.
Not saying you can't do anything, but there ARE maps that just favour/encourage 200/200 turtling.
On July 18 2007 05:55 Hot_Bid wrote: yeah Flash's goliath micro was horrible and his late game decision making was as well, but another reason why i love game 1 was because Flash lost partly because he turtled to 200
anyone Protoss knows the annoyance of having to play against a Terran that is just 100% stubbornly going for max out push, and knowing that at certain positions and maps make it impossible to do anything about it.
well.... Flash could've easily killed stork before he got to Carriers, but instead decided to turtle and look what happens. its a victory for frustrated anti-turtlers everywhere.
Ermmmmmmm........ what map that has been played or position is it impossible to do anything about 200/200 turtles?
i'm not saying its impossible to win vs 200
i'm saying its really really difficult for the P to attack/prevent the 200 from happening if the Terran is set on doing it. it leads to like 20 minutes of building up, one large battle that is generally very one sided (for either the P or the T), then game over
game 1 was a perfect example of overturtling/inflexible strategy by flash, he was going for max out when he could've just analyzed the situation, pushed out earlier and killed stork way before he got that many carriers
i dunno i just find it satisfying when turtling doesn't succeed, maybe that's why i just love it every time Bifrost doesn't win. Depends on the maps too, but Protoss going carriers earlier and earlier these days to offset.
Earliest Carriers I've seen this season is from Rock @ Star Challenge (vs fOrGG I think, or Mania don't remember) anyway it was ridiculous, I couldn't believe it worked, even though I was originally cheering for Rock, after he pulled it off I wanted to punch a hole in his head!
Some of you need to stop pointing at flashs head. What did you expect? Another bisu who just storms in and takes out everyone? He's a kid for gosh sake. And all this hyping puts nothing but pressure on him. I say good fucking job, 4th place, first time. And i'm looking forward to see more from this kid.
Experience is such an important factor and the gap was obvious in game 2. I believe stork shaked him around in game one, flash tried to calm down for the next game and after the second loss he totaly lost concentration. Iris on the other hand just had killer instinct and determination in his games. Same goes for every other good player who wins his mind games.
And please cut the fucking crap with "meh carriers so lame" and "gay terran turtling" blablabla. There's allways a niche, allways room for turn arounds. Lot's of players just miss their windows. Just take all the out-of-the-box-players and you will see how much more room for improvement there is for a player who just stubbornly goes for the same pattern again and again.
ive just seen the first game... I cannot believe Flash was so cocky/stupid enough to think going for interceptors would actually work, if he had gone for carrier instead of interceptor he would have easily won it, and he did this for like 10 minutes straight at least what the shit? there's never any reason to go for interceptors even if a protoss is out of minerals because it's still faster to go for carriers than kill all those interceptors. And the rate he was losing goliaths and the time and money it takes to rebuild goliaths is wayyyyy much more than losing interceptors and time/money it takes to rebuild them..that was the most retarded game I've ever seen, because I've lost a game the exact same way long ago (when I had a humongous lead and all protoss had were carriers).
just glancing through this thread makes me a little sick
and what the hell is with all the people saying flash had bad goliath micro? it had nothing to do with his micro ability, jeezes christ I don't know how he could have made it more obvious that he wanted to just kill interceptors, who knows why he did it (I still cant figure it out.. maybe he was annoyed at Stork not leaving and wanted to show "I can even win by just killing interceptors, thats how ahead I am" or perhaps "I'll eventually win because he'll run out of interceptor money while I won't (yet unaware of Stork's island expo)"
Regardless of what he was thinking It was probably the worst decision I've ever seen anyone make. But it was so obviously intentional, how do you people say "wow he has bad goliath micro" ..... it's just as bad as the flood of dumb comments made during games @ SC2.org's live chat
They both played like shit in game one. Stork for the first 10 minutes and Flash for the rest.
Game 2 was Hitchhiker being the gayest map ever made.
Game 3 was Stork playing like a man and Flash having no answer. He should have done his gay rax/gas rush again. It's clear he doesn't have a clue for Monty Hall.
I'm disappointed somewhat, but I feel that Stork plays to the level of his competition, so you can't really be hard on a guy for the way he wins. Flash on the other hand played like a complete joke. I really couldn't believe a guy with such crazy TvP stats could pull crap like THAT.
Simply put, this is the most retarded series I have ever watched. If I wasn't so pissed I'd have been laughing my ass off the whole time like the rest of you.
Whether you like how he got to where he is or not, he was an OSL semi-finalist competing for a 3rd-4th place match. It's not like he didn't deserve to be where he was. Granted, there could have been better opponents, but he made it to where he is.
Oh come on mana, don't be so mean to the little fellow.
I really wanted Flash to get owned because of the cheezy way he got around bisu. I hated bisu for losing like that... twice. But I never seen THIS comming.
First game, yeah, flash screwed up big time. He wanted the limit to make sure he gets the win, well, he didn't.
But Game 2 was art. Hitchhiker is a gay map, but it had little to do with the outcome of the game. The same could have happened on other maps too. Flash didn't lose because of the map. He lost because he made awful decisions. He didn't go back to his base soon enough, and because of that he lost a LOT of tanks. About 3-4 at his main, then when he finally decided to come back, 4 more. And to what? 1 goon. 1 reaver. 1 scout. Not to mention 5 rines and over 10 scvs. Apart from that he also thought that clearing out stork's main would mean gg. What kind of progamer doesn't consider a hidden expo in that situation? His lack of experience cought up with him. One too many bad decisions gave stork the upper-hand in a game that was clearly his.
And game 3 was bad because he let stork get carriers. Those things are horrible to fight on monty, so he should have been more agressive or so. You're saying he should have done his gay rush again, but he was 0-2. It would have taken tremendous ammounts of iron balls to do a rush like that when you're 0-2, epecially if your opponent was aware of the possibility that you'd try it. I think he was emotionally distroyed after the first two fuck-ups to be in any position to fight back in game 3.
I don't see why you're so pissed off though, a big part of his stats in TvP were cheeses/well timed rushes, stork just knew how to give him difficult decisions, hoping he would make the wrong choices. And it worked.
stork... your play in game 2 was.... i dunno... FUCKING AMAZING.. no words can account to the greatness you have brought to aiur... however, dont be fooled. the next OSL will not go to you, but the fall sasin toss, ANYTIME!!!!
i was very impressed by flash's play, he didn't get huge leads in the first two games by accident. but stork was like a phoenix and once killed came back from the ashes and made brilliant comebacks. 2 games added to my hall of fame folder... that was some crazy shit!
Actually I didn't watch game 2 and 3, but clearly Stork gained the momentum after the ridiculous display of crappy play from both sides that was game one, but especially Flash's inability to kill of Stork.
Wtf did Flash do? Sure he wanted to kill interceptors...it's not like he tried to target the carriers but failed to do so. But the question is, WTF was he thinking. He was so much in lead and had Stork by the balls, and I got so angry watching the game, I actually yelled out loud "Kill the fucking carriers you fucking moron!"
Seldom have I seen a supposedly skilled player like Flash loose a game like this, it was nothing less than pathetic.
His vult micro is great and he find opportunities to harass Stork alot in the first game. Then he proceeds by expoing all over and pumping out a large number of tanks and goliaths + melting Storks entire ground army at 11.
Then he fucking went on loosing the game, I don't fucking get it and probably never will.
don't mind me, i am just changing the urls to working links so i can right click
Not only thx very much to Yakii for his outstanding work thus far on releasing these vods in such format - but lately I haven't been able to get them to DL, but I used to be able to. For the past few days now, whenever I try his released VOD's, they wouldn't get any progress on them, and stay at 0%, however, now that this guy has re-uploaded them, w/ the URL links for right-click saving, they work again!! so yay and thx to both of u for making these available to another fan.. Protoss fan
In every game Flash played like he was nervous and intimidated. Stork made a few painful mistakes in game 1, getting caught off guard by Flash's vulture raid and losing his reaver. After that his every move was brilliant, and Flash made the mistake of playing passively for too long instead of pressuring Stork with a push much earlier. In game 2 Flash overplayed his advantage and tried to win too early, leaving him vulnerable to just the sort or trickery that Stork wound up pulling. As for game 3, nothing much needs to be added. After this series I guess we should be thankful that we didn't end up with Stork vs Flash in the finals.
Just what I expected, I was completely tired with all this trash and hype about Flash, people just didn't really observe Flash's play that much. You guys really think Flash was good enough to take down a PvT monster the likes of Stork? I mean yeah Iris went 3-0 againts him but that deosn't mean anything.
And I am not saying Stork lost on purpose to Iris, but Stork was really not trying againts his games vs Iris in the OSL semi-finals.
Yeah, ofc he wasn't really trying to win his semi-finals. That sounds a lot more probable than his own words "I lost to 2 Byun Hyung Tae (Iris[gm])'s 2 factory in the semifinals and I still don't know how to fight against 2 factory. I am not very confident against 2 factory".
On July 19 2007 10:46 Duffybeer wrote: And I am not saying Stork lost on purpose to Iris, but Stork was really not trying againts his games vs Iris in the OSL semi-finals.
Lulz, it's so clear to me now. Stork is too much of man to actually _try_ to get into the OSL finals. That shit's not that important anyway.
On July 19 2007 11:46 Hittegods wrote: Yeah, ofc he wasn't really trying to win his semi-finals. That sounds a lot more probable than his own words "I lost to 2 Byun Hyung Tae (Iris[gm])'s 2 factory in the semifinals and I still don't know how to fight against 2 factory. I am not very confident against 2 factory".
Why on earth wouldn't he be trying?
Cuz he didn't research goon upgrade nub J/k
Ok back on topic, he stated that he was being too cocky, and arrogant so he didn't really prepare, which points that Iris's Pvt is really nothing special, Anytime outclassed him in So1, and I believe stork beat him using Proxy gates or gate cheese. Iris was pushover for Stork believe me, he wasn't putting his real best effort as he did vs Flash or vs Sea[shield].
those 2factory builds were standard 2factory in every way, there was no fluke or foolishness, just flawless execution. Iris is much, much better than you think he is.