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On January 01 2012 09:26 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 09:06 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 08:56 Rostam wrote:On January 01 2012 04:03 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 03:38 Count9 wrote:On January 01 2012 00:10 VGhost wrote:
Running through results, this deserves mention:
In regular leagues, Bisu's PvZ win-rate for ALL OF 2011 is 85.71% (24-4). (If you include the prelim loss to hyvaa it drops to 25-6, which is "only" 80.65%.)
I know people talk about JD and Flash's mirror winrates and stuff, but this is something nobody else even begins to challenge: since it's not a mirror, there's not even the "but xyz player can beat him there" thing.
Was Flash's TvZ comparable? Why do Bisu fans keep masochistically comparing him to Flash, trying to find justification that he's as good as Flash? Why do WMF fans exist solely to hate on Bisu? In the mind of the SKT fan, "Bisu isn't as good as Flash" = hating on Bisu. Cute, but not quite. It's a pattern I've noticed while I've been on TL. WMF fans are essentially Bisu haters. dude you're one of the worst sports i've seen on here. i'm a huge wmf fan (especially nada and baby; i even liked lucifer and pure) and i love bisu. seeing him dismantle effort (whose play i don't particularly enjoy) was awesome. it's ridiculous to see you grump around here calling teams trash and then say that better-adjusted fans exist solely to hate on the things you like. pop some pills and enjoy broodwar while it lasts dude.
Don't get me wrong, I liked most WMF players. I don't hate the team.
But I just find that WMF tags are VERY often SKT/Bisu haters.
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On January 01 2012 09:31 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 09:26 o[twist] wrote:On January 01 2012 09:06 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 08:56 Rostam wrote:On January 01 2012 04:03 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 03:38 Count9 wrote:On January 01 2012 00:10 VGhost wrote:
Running through results, this deserves mention:
In regular leagues, Bisu's PvZ win-rate for ALL OF 2011 is 85.71% (24-4). (If you include the prelim loss to hyvaa it drops to 25-6, which is "only" 80.65%.)
I know people talk about JD and Flash's mirror winrates and stuff, but this is something nobody else even begins to challenge: since it's not a mirror, there's not even the "but xyz player can beat him there" thing.
Was Flash's TvZ comparable? Why do Bisu fans keep masochistically comparing him to Flash, trying to find justification that he's as good as Flash? Why do WMF fans exist solely to hate on Bisu? In the mind of the SKT fan, "Bisu isn't as good as Flash" = hating on Bisu. Cute, but not quite. It's a pattern I've noticed while I've been on TL. WMF fans are essentially Bisu haters. dude you're one of the worst sports i've seen on here. i'm a huge wmf fan (especially nada and baby; i even liked lucifer and pure) and i love bisu. seeing him dismantle effort (whose play i don't particularly enjoy) was awesome. it's ridiculous to see you grump around here calling teams trash and then say that better-adjusted fans exist solely to hate on the things you like. pop some pills and enjoy broodwar while it lasts dude. Don't get me wrong, I liked most WMF players. I don't hate the team. But I just find that WMF tags are VERY often SKT/Bisu haters.
you could easily be right. then again, it could also be the case that you've got a persecution complex, which is basically what your behavior (being one of the most negative posters towards other teams and then jumping at shadows when it comes to people discussing your favorite players) indicates.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
godamn, just watched the vods! so sad horang2 didnt mangae to win T__T
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On January 01 2012 14:33 alffla wrote:
godamn, just watched the vods! so sad horang2 didnt mangae to win T__T
Lol, as if he'd ever stand a chance vs SK
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On January 01 2012 18:08 TensaiSakuragi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 14:33 alffla wrote:
godamn, just watched the vods! so sad horang2 didnt mangae to win T__T Lol, as if he'd ever stand a chance vs SK
I don't know about that. It's good that BeSt won, but I felt that Horang2 got unlucky in the opening and then almost managed to make a comeback. It pains me to admit it, but Horang2 is probably better at PvP than BeSt (and also Bisu), at least at the moment.
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19h 21m [SPL] CJ vs SKT
Nice!
Rematch 
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Cj vs SKT, ROUND 2
FIGHT!
Can we keep the same thread?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50596 Posts
On January 03 2012 00:41 Xiphos wrote:
Cj vs SKT, ROUND 2
FIGHT!
Can we keep the same thread?
no.
Hyde said he'd make another one.
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On January 01 2012 09:19 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 09:06 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 08:56 Rostam wrote:On January 01 2012 04:03 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 03:38 Count9 wrote:On January 01 2012 00:10 VGhost wrote:
Running through results, this deserves mention:
In regular leagues, Bisu's PvZ win-rate for ALL OF 2011 is 85.71% (24-4). (If you include the prelim loss to hyvaa it drops to 25-6, which is "only" 80.65%.)
I know people talk about JD and Flash's mirror winrates and stuff, but this is something nobody else even begins to challenge: since it's not a mirror, there's not even the "but xyz player can beat him there" thing.
Was Flash's TvZ comparable? Why do Bisu fans keep masochistically comparing him to Flash, trying to find justification that he's as good as Flash? Why do WMF fans exist solely to hate on Bisu? In the mind of the SKT fan, "Bisu isn't as good as Flash" = hating on Bisu. Cute, but not quite. It's a pattern I've noticed while I've been on TL. WMF fans are essentially Bisu haters. Except the only thing that guy said was that Bisu isn't as good as Flash. Which.. is true. So it's not really hating.
Here's a quote as to what he said:
Why do Bisu fans keep masochistically comparing him to Flash, trying to find justification that he's as good as Flash?
To be fair, whether it be the usage of words (masochistically, trying to find justification), or the tone overall, it ll be difficult to say that the guy is being completely objective/fair.
Intentionally or no, i believe you are trying to oversimplify things.
That's like saying "Flash's not doing well." and "Flash is sucking hardcore." mean the same thing (neither is true btw, Flash is doing awesome).
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Whenever only 1 player makes a red ball in PvP, that player is cursed to lose the game.
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On January 01 2012 21:48 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 18:08 TensaiSakuragi wrote:On January 01 2012 14:33 alffla wrote:
godamn, just watched the vods! so sad horang2 didnt mangae to win T__T Lol, as if he'd ever stand a chance vs SK I don't know about that. It's good that BeSt won, but I felt that Horang2 got unlucky in the opening and then almost managed to make a comeback. It pains me to admit it, but Horang2 is probably better at PvP than BeSt (and also Bisu), at least at the moment.
Dude no way
There is no way horang2's pvp is better than best
First of all, horang2 HARD COUNTERED BeSt's build
Fast dt vs fast obs
but yet BeSt was able to do some gosu dt damage (with a little bit of luck of course, but still)
then horang2 takes a ninja expo that BeSt doesn't know about
then BeSt loses a shuttle with HT/zealot
the game goes on long enough that horang2 is actually WINNING, he actually has a supply advantage, has 1 more base than BeSt and yet LOSES the engagement and the game because of poor decisions (he had like 9 archons and lost to storms from BeSt)
and after that BeSt just rolls over him like we were watching bisuvseffort pvp style
horang2 had the BO advantage, he had a base advantage and he still lost the game pretty convincingly
You can argue well he got unlucky with the DT, well he shouldn't have gone DA's, well he shouldn't have gotten that many archons, well well well
But truth is, BeSt is just better than him and is looking very solid this season.
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Well, I agree that Horang2 had a BO advantage :
gate core goon > gate zeal pylon core
fast ob > DT (but BeSt got really lucky with the ob out of position)
After that Horang2 was behind, but he managed to make a hidden expo and lived long enough that made him ahead, he had more bases, more gate, bigger army. The problem is that he engaged uphill with no storm support (maybe because he was confident with his army size). But I don't think BeSt play good in that game, he got lucky with the DT but did not scout and did not try to pressure at all, allowed the opponent to make a comeback that shouldn't happen.
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On January 01 2012 09:35 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 09:31 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 09:26 o[twist] wrote:On January 01 2012 09:06 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 08:56 Rostam wrote:On January 01 2012 04:03 Lightwip wrote:On January 01 2012 03:38 Count9 wrote:On January 01 2012 00:10 VGhost wrote:
Running through results, this deserves mention:
In regular leagues, Bisu's PvZ win-rate for ALL OF 2011 is 85.71% (24-4). (If you include the prelim loss to hyvaa it drops to 25-6, which is "only" 80.65%.)
I know people talk about JD and Flash's mirror winrates and stuff, but this is something nobody else even begins to challenge: since it's not a mirror, there's not even the "but xyz player can beat him there" thing.
Was Flash's TvZ comparable? Why do Bisu fans keep masochistically comparing him to Flash, trying to find justification that he's as good as Flash? Why do WMF fans exist solely to hate on Bisu? In the mind of the SKT fan, "Bisu isn't as good as Flash" = hating on Bisu. Cute, but not quite. It's a pattern I've noticed while I've been on TL. WMF fans are essentially Bisu haters. dude you're one of the worst sports i've seen on here. i'm a huge wmf fan (especially nada and baby; i even liked lucifer and pure) and i love bisu. seeing him dismantle effort (whose play i don't particularly enjoy) was awesome. it's ridiculous to see you grump around here calling teams trash and then say that better-adjusted fans exist solely to hate on the things you like. pop some pills and enjoy broodwar while it lasts dude. Don't get me wrong, I liked most WMF players. I don't hate the team. But I just find that WMF tags are VERY often SKT/Bisu haters. you could easily be right. then again, it could also be the case that you've got a persecution complex, which is basically what your behavior (being one of the most negative posters towards other teams and then jumping at shadows when it comes to people discussing your favorite players) indicates.
Yeah, could never understand why you need to be so negative and unhappy about a sporting contest, lol
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@MiXyass - I was with you until the last part about Best being better overall. Horang2 losing that game really perplexing. He had enough sense to go fast obs - a super safe build - but let's a DT sneak in? Followed by a hidden base and a fast third. It's a testament to his skill that he lost 11 probes and still was ahead when the large battle occurred, supply count wise. But he isn't used to pressure I suppose. Being sent out last when the score was 2-1 was hard on him.
Also Best was doing good harass damage while Horang was just massing up the entire game? I'm sure Horang2 will grow from watching this game. Improving his timings and scouting so that he can continue to own. Rematch tomorrow - let's go!
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I don't hate Bisu Lightwip. I hate you
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Wait, CJ and SKT are playing each other again today? Awesome, will watch over chili and tiramisu
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On January 03 2012 00:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 00:41 Xiphos wrote:
Cj vs SKT, ROUND 2
FIGHT!
Can we keep the same thread? no. Hyde said he'd make another one.
x.X
haha man and i thought this was already the new...then i thought 'hey it would be funny if we just kept this one and made it huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge'
oh well...GET TO IT ♥
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On January 03 2012 00:41 Xiphos wrote:
Can we keep the same thread?
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On January 03 2012 00:41 Xiphos wrote:
Cj vs SKT, ROUND 2
FIGHT!
Can we keep the same thread?
On January 03 2012 00:41 Xiphos wrote:
Cj vs SKT, ROUND 2
FIGHT!
Can we keep the same thread?
Making a new thread might end up confusing people, lol. Maybe just put the OP of the new thread here?
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On January 03 2012 03:36 Emon_ wrote:
@MiXyass - I was with you until the last part about Best being better overall. Horang2 losing that game really perplexing. He had enough sense to go fast obs - a super safe build - but let's a DT sneak in? Followed by a hidden base and a fast third. It's a testament to his skill that he lost 11 probes and still was ahead when the large battle occurred, supply count wise. But he isn't used to pressure I suppose. Being sent out last when the score was 2-1 was hard on him.
Also Best was doing good harass damage while Horang was just massing up the entire game? I'm sure Horang2 will grow from watching this game. Improving his timings and scouting so that he can continue to own. Rematch tomorrow - let's go!
More than a testament to his skill, i personally feel that it was a testament to BeSt poor play following his nice DT damage. Now i understand that BeSt build (DT Forge expand) sports very low goon count (lot's of minerals spent on Tech + Cannons), so it's pretty much inevitable that he had to hole up in his base until his superior economy kick in enough to pump out goons and chase Horang2 out of his choke. But he was REALLY lazy to scout. Horang2 was behind after the DT, no question there. The two most likely response if he still wants to win the game (from where im seeing) are either an all-in or a ninja expansion. The all-in didn't happen, so why not scout for a hidden base? If he can't spare an obs for that, at least a probe/zeal after he freed his choke? Imo it was either poor decision making or just really lazy play from BeSt.
Horang2's army composition wasn't afraid of uphill battles (primarily Zeals + Archons), but a tight choke making them clump together let Storms rip him apart. Critical mistake from Horang2 fighting uphill vs such a good Goon arc + Storms.
Overall, i think it was a BO advantage from Horang2 -> nice dmg from BeSt (i believe the leading prove saw the obs, that's why the DT took the detour to the south before going into Horang2's base) -> good effort by Horang2 + poor play from BeSt handing the lead back to Horang2 -> Crititally bad engagement decision by Horang2 costing him the game.
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EPT
