Fun Fact, eSTRO doesn't have any player with a greater than 50% win rate vs zerg in over 5 matches.
I don't really think it will go to ace, but if it does, this is probably what it will look like. I really enjoy watching Really and UpMaGiC, so I hope they win, and eSTRO somehow is doing pretty well lately, so hopefully they put up a good fight.
It seems realistic enough that Hiya/ggaemo/spear will be able to take at least one match, and JD should have his match in the bag considering his recent performance against considerably better Protoss players. So my prediction is 3-2 for OZ, as long as JD gets send out for ACE.
So...it seems that Oz is going to once again rely on the Jaedong heavy, one win from Jaedong, one win from three scrubs, and one ace win from Jaedong formula.
I actually hope Killer gets sent out for the ace if there is one, this is a team that he could actually win against and his courage needs to be bucked up after all those humiliating losses...
On November 23 2009 00:58 meeple wrote: I actually hope Killer gets sent out for the ace if there is one, this is a team that he could actually win against and his courage needs to be bucked up after all those humiliating losses...
I actually think hyvaa will take the first set, but the 3rd and 4th sets are tossups - all 4 players in those sets are <50%, although I hope UpMagic shows up some successful creativity.
It's a standard Oz set up. Jaedong should have a stranglehold on his match, then the other three are big to slight underdogs in all of their matches. One of them has to steal a win for Jaedong to take it in ace.
Still...I wonder WTF is going on with Lomo. I was pretty damn impressed with him during the Grand Final for his victory against Best.
Didn't he promise to support Jaedong in that interview?
I am very disappointed at the lack of Backho appearances. If the recent Backho v.s. Calm was any indication, Backho still got what it takes to pull random victories out of his ass. He got exactly what Jaedong needs to bring Oz back to the road of glory, which is a random victory from one of the three teammates. Not to mention it is so fun to watch Backho on live stream...
On November 23 2009 01:02 Zona wrote: Jaedong's first kespa-sanctioned ZvP in awhile!
I actually think hyvaa will take the first set, but the 3rd and 4th sets are tossups - all 4 players in those sets are <50%, although I hope UpMagic shows up some successful creativity.
On November 23 2009 01:02 Zona wrote: Jaedong's first kespa-sanctioned ZvP in awhile!
I actually think hyvaa will take the first set, but the 3rd and 4th sets are tossups - all 4 players in those sets are <50%, although I hope UpMagic shows up some successful creativity.
ggaemo has a chance in ZvT. Either he or HiyA can bring it to ace, I doubt they'd be silly enough to send Killer for ace; Really has beaten him every single time they've met.
Actually, if HiyA takes the first set I wouldn't be suprised with a 3-1 win from oz.
I think that aside from Jaedong, HiyA has the best chance. hyvaa is pretty inconsistent recently. This will either be 3-1 for eSTRO, or go to ace in which Jaedong might be sent out.
Cho might send out Killer though, whom UpMaGiC will destroy.
I hope Killer loses both his Dream League games so Cho doesn't think "Wow Killer's going to be really confident today with some wins from a few hours ago!"
Jaedong looks so lonely on that Oz roster. One wonders if Oz would be ranked lower than ACE if they didn't have him this season, with how terribly everyone on the team except JD is performing...
On November 23 2009 09:47 Hinanawi wrote: Jaedong looks so lonely on that Oz roster. One wonders if Oz would be ranked lower than ACE if they didn't have him this season, with how terribly everyone on the team except JD is performing...
3-1 estro, or 3-2 Oz.
Didn't they win 3-0 without him playing (he was in fourth set)? IF so then they'd still be higher than Ace, I believe.
I don't think Spear is any better than Perfectfail seriously, and Really has been playing very solid recently. Oz's only hope lies with HiyA imo, if he can win the first game, Jaedong will jump into the booth, spank Sangho's ass real quick, have a quick nap so that he won't have to observe his teammates failing in the next two games, then finally wrap shit up for Oz.
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Proxy "A proxy building is a building built outside your own base including your natural base, sometimes in the proximity of your opponent's base. Despite the similarity between the words 'proximity' and 'proxy', the term actually stems from the word 'proxy' as something which in acts on behalf of someone or something else.
Proxying can be used for a number of reasons: lessening the travel time to your opponent's base in a rush(...)"
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
Well, technically, proxy rather means close than hidden:-p But seeing how these gates were still a lot closer to SangHo's base, I think the term forward gates is perfectly fine. Also, they werent just thrown out there, he clearly had planned to use them as a front door to a possible fast expand later on.
And Sangho didnt play that bad, its just that his 2gate rush build was completely defended, then he had to tech blindfolded. He put up cannons at his front expecting a hydra bust transition (that Jaedong would abuse the fact that he has to tech), but in turn he didnt have cannons at his nexii against the mutas. It was around a 50-50 gamble he had to make to stay in the game. (see him cancel 2 of the cannons at the choke just as he sees the first pair of scourge, and knows that spire tech is up.)
And Sangho didnt play that bad, its just that his 2gate rush build was completely defended, then he had to tech blindfolded. He put up cannons at his front expecting a hydra bust transition (that Jaedong would abuse the fact that he has to tech), but in turn he didnt have cannons at his nexii against the mutas. It was around a 50-50 gamble he had to make to stay in the game. (see him cancel 2 of the cannons at the choke just as he sees the first pair of scourge, and knows that spire tech is up.)
yep. 2 gate sucks cause u dont get scout info. hyds or muts, it's always like this €: btw sangho could have really used a probe to scout using the pylon trick at the top of the map. well he is noob t.t
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Proxy "A proxy building is a building built outside your own base including your natural base, sometimes in the proximity of your opponent's base. Despite the similarity between the words 'proximity' and 'proxy', the term actually stems from the word 'proxy' as something which in acts on behalf of someone or something else.
Proxying can be used for a number of reasons: lessening the travel time to your opponent's base in a rush(...)"
HM MH HM
use your brain dude instead of throwing blind wikis definitions he went forwared gates to actually put pressure on JD and wall off his nat,. hence the 3 cannons later at nat which he cancelled just to have his main raped by mutas.i tihnk he was opting for sair reaver or something, considering these cannons. but these weren't proxy gates at all i just don't agree with this wiki definition
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Proxy "A proxy building is a building built outside your own base including your natural base, sometimes in the proximity of your opponent's base. Despite the similarity between the words 'proximity' and 'proxy', the term actually stems from the word 'proxy' as something which in acts on behalf of someone or something else.
Proxying can be used for a number of reasons: lessening the travel time to your opponent's base in a rush(...)"
HM MH HM
use your brain dude instead of throwing blind wikis definitions he went forwared gates to actually put pressure on JD and wall off his nat,. hence the 3 cannons later at nat which he cancelled just to have his main raped by mutas.i tihnk he was opting for sair reaver or something, considering these cannons. but these weren't proxy gates at all
This wasn't 2gate pressure, this was 2gate all in.
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Proxy "A proxy building is a building built outside your own base including your natural base, sometimes in the proximity of your opponent's base. Despite the similarity between the words 'proximity' and 'proxy', the term actually stems from the word 'proxy' as something which in acts on behalf of someone or something else.
Proxying can be used for a number of reasons: lessening the travel time to your opponent's base in a rush(...)"
HM MH HM
use your brain dude instead of throwing blind wikis definitions he went forwared gates to actually put pressure on JD and wall off his nat,. hence the 3 cannons later at nat which he cancelled just to have his main raped by mutas.i tihnk he was opting for sair reaver or something, considering these cannons. but these weren't proxy gates at all
This wasn't 2gate pressure, this was 2gate all in.
2 gate all in would be in the middle, and he would have gged right after failed zeal push
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Proxy "A proxy building is a building built outside your own base including your natural base, sometimes in the proximity of your opponent's base. Despite the similarity between the words 'proximity' and 'proxy', the term actually stems from the word 'proxy' as something which in acts on behalf of someone or something else.
Proxying can be used for a number of reasons: lessening the travel time to your opponent's base in a rush(...)"
HM MH HM
use your brain dude instead of throwing blind wikis definitions he went forwared gates to actually put pressure on JD and wall off his nat,. hence the 3 cannons later at nat which he cancelled just to have his main raped by mutas.i tihnk he was opting for sair reaver or something, considering these cannons. but these weren't proxy gates at all i just don't agree with this wiki definition
i know why he built the gates at his nat, rofl do u think i'm stupid? still, to me the term "proxy" means "not inside ur main". not hidden, not allin-like, just that the building is not in ur main. if it serves the purpose of walling off ur nat or not, just like liquipedia says. but ok, i'll use the term forwarded gate from now on kekeke
On November 23 2009 19:37 meeple wrote: no siege for Really? that was a ballsy push
That failed miserably. Spear should've taken out all those tanks, he had soo many goons. Now hes contained. LOL @ spear trying to snipe a SCV building a turret with the arb. he fails of course
On November 23 2009 19:17 Djin)ftw( wrote: when did the term "forward gates" come up? never heard that before Oo
forwarded* big difference between proxy and the strat sangho did and proxy means hidden, i dont think its hard to find 2 gates in someone's nat with your OL ^_^
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Proxy "A proxy building is a building built outside your own base including your natural base, sometimes in the proximity of your opponent's base. Despite the similarity between the words 'proximity' and 'proxy', the term actually stems from the word 'proxy' as something which in acts on behalf of someone or something else.
Proxying can be used for a number of reasons: lessening the travel time to your opponent's base in a rush(...)"
HM MH HM
use your brain dude instead of throwing blind wikis definitions he went forwared gates to actually put pressure on JD and wall off his nat,. hence the 3 cannons later at nat which he cancelled just to have his main raped by mutas.i tihnk he was opting for sair reaver or something, considering these cannons. but these weren't proxy gates at all
This wasn't 2gate pressure, this was 2gate all in.
Just as much as any 2gate is an all-in. A 2gate allin rather has earlier gates, and even pulled probes. This looked like 10/12 gate to me, which leaves you plenty of room to tech if you can pull off the beginning well. But Sangho's early timing got totally screwed by the first 6 lings running through, then Jaedong's defense was impeccable later on. Even after all this, he could have stayed in the game if he guessed the tech followup correctly, which he didnt. It was not an all-in, it was a failed 2gate pressure build into an unsuccesful catchup-game. Thats why it looked so one-sided:-p
On November 23 2009 19:40 boesthius wrote: apparently spear thinks that 5 tanks in that initial push is > than like 12 goons?
shouldve killed the tanks then instead of letting them get position and containing him ;;
only thing which comes to mind is that spear was afraid of mines while chasing these tanks after failed push but yeah he should have crossed the bridge at least
Really also landed his maybe first successful Stasis on an Arbiter. He is expanding to top left, protected by a bunch of VUltures. He managed to take out 6, so he is in a good spot.
for a while i though Hwaseung might 3-0 this, that would've been crazy. well atleast it's guaranteed to go to ACE even if ggaemo loses, please send JD!
On November 23 2009 20:17 cokencheese wrote: Is it safe to say that ggaemo sucks? The idea of sniping tanks with mutas is great and all, but it doesn't look like he has the micro to pull it off.
No it isn't. He actually recovered quite well after that beginning.
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
God you're not gonna last long with posting quality like that however bad you think he is hes 10000000x better than you
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
God you're not gonna last long with posting quality like that however bad you think he is hes 10000000x better than you
I would argue that even the worst of us could avoid losing 10 hydras to one mine.
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
God you're not gonna last long with posting quality like that however bad you think he is hes 10000000x better than you
good thing its not my job then isnt it? you should probably know by now the argument that you cant criticize unless you are as good doesnt hold any weight
On November 23 2009 20:17 cokencheese wrote: Is it safe to say that ggaemo sucks? The idea of sniping tanks with mutas is great and all, but it doesn't look like he has the micro to pull it off.
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
God you're not gonna last long with posting quality like that however bad you think he is hes 10000000x better than you
good thing its not my job then isnt it? you should probably know by now the argument that you cant criticize unless you are as good doesnt hold any weight
flash sucks because he left ten tanks idle at his factory because of a stalled tank did you know that lost the game as well
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
God you're not gonna last long with posting quality like that however bad you think he is hes 10000000x better than you
good thing its not my job then isnt it? you should probably know by now the argument that you cant criticize unless you are as good doesnt hold any weight
flash sucks because he left ten tanks idle at his factory because of a stalled tank did you know that lost the game as well
you might have a point if ggaemo didnt actually suck (but he does, real bad)
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
God you're not gonna last long with posting quality like that however bad you think he is hes 10000000x better than you
good thing its not my job then isnt it? you should probably know by now the argument that you cant criticize unless you are as good doesnt hold any weight
flash sucks because he left ten tanks idle at his factory because of a stalled tank did you know that lost the game as well
yeah cause forgetting to set a rally point is exactly like ggaemo playing a whole game terribly right?
On November 23 2009 20:17 538 wrote: I cant believe Up held that, what a baller
how he is a baller he hardly did anything
seriously what is ggaemo doing? doesnt micro at all, and hes not even macroing just sitting on fucking 3 bases vs 3 its completely retarded. he isnt even b-team level this is pathetic
God you're not gonna last long with posting quality like that however bad you think he is hes 10000000x better than you
good thing its not my job then isnt it? you should probably know by now the argument that you cant criticize unless you are as good doesnt hold any weight
flash sucks because he left ten tanks idle at his factory because of a stalled tank did you know that lost the game as well
yeah cause forgetting to set a rally point is exactly like ggaemo playing a whole game terribly right?
as someone said even Killer would do a better job
Ggaemo would have won if he bought 1 ovie with his hydra attack on the front, of the 12 hydra attack at the expo. You can say he was terrible in hindsight, but watch the game, he had it won, but he forgot an ovie and simply lost. Mech can be unforgiving for the zerg too.
On November 23 2009 20:29 Malinor wrote: Such a terrible game... hoping for a better ace match now.
Are you serious? Because that was an awesome game
Well, I don't think so
Upmagics first mech-attack was terrible, the dropship move dumb. But fortunately for him, Ggaemo suicided like 50 Hydras into mines when he just could have taken the whole map and contained Up. There were too many mistakes for me to find it entertaining.
The point of this is, has been proven several times. ESTRO expects Jaedong, and sends someone who prepared vs him. While Oz has a player already prepared ONLY for Ace match. Bet its a new deal in Jaedongs contract, that they cant solely depend on him to practice for every significant team match.
On November 23 2009 20:45 NovaTheFeared wrote: Coach Cho is proving that Oz is a one man team. Without Jaedong in ace, they're among the very worst teams in proleague.
even with jaedong, they're doing pretty poorly this season
On November 23 2009 20:45 ThePhan2m wrote: The point of this is, has been proven several times. ESTRO expects Jaedong, and sends someone who prepared vs him. While Oz has a player already prepared ONLY for Ace match. Bet its a new deal in Jaedongs contract, that they cant solely depend on him to practice for every significant team match.
Who cares? It's JD, and it's eSTRO. JD would eat anyone alive from eSTRO practice or no practice.
On November 23 2009 20:41 Uraeus wrote: And Really will ruin my anti-team FPL. Yet again.
Wait... you put arguably eSTRO's best player on your anti-team?
Well... Yes. I thought Up would be sent for Ace more often. And Really did cost a lot, so the rest of my anti-team is doing great for me (ie : terrible at StarCraft).
On November 23 2009 20:45 ThePhan2m wrote: The point of this is, has been proven several times. ESTRO expects Jaedong, and sends someone who prepared vs him. While Oz has a player already prepared ONLY for Ace match. Bet its a new deal in Jaedongs contract, that they cant solely depend on him to practice for every significant team match.
Who cares? It's JD, and it's eSTRO. JD would eat anyone alive from eSTRO practice or no practice.
Yeah, they need to stop overanalyzing. They have the best player in the world; use him.
On November 23 2009 20:56 EvilSky wrote: Who is the chick that is constantly yapping? anyone knows korean can tell me if she actually knows what shes talking about ?
On November 23 2009 20:56 EvilSky wrote: Who is the chick that is constantly yapping? anyone knows korean can tell me if she actually knows what shes talking about ?
I'm pretty sure a commentator hired by OnGameNet knows what they're talking about. Male or female. : /
On November 23 2009 20:56 EvilSky wrote: Who is the chick that is constantly yapping? anyone knows korean can tell me if she actually knows what shes talking about ?
she knows way more than you
she soudns like she struggles to find talking time though lolol
On November 23 2009 20:56 EvilSky wrote: Who is the chick that is constantly yapping? anyone knows korean can tell me if she actually knows what shes talking about ?
she knows way more than you
she soudns like she struggles to find talking time though lolol
Lomo getting rolled... Really has an extra expansion, a larger army and has been winning every skirmish. Not to mention he's done a bit of econ damage with vultures...
On November 23 2009 21:03 meeple wrote: Lomo getting rolled... Really has an extra expansion, a larger army and has been winning every skirmish. Not to mention he's done a bit of econ damage with vultures...
Actually I think Lomo's making better use of his dropships.
On November 23 2009 21:03 meeple wrote: Lomo getting rolled... Really has an extra expansion, a larger army and has been winning every skirmish. Not to mention he's done a bit of econ damage with vultures...
On November 23 2009 21:03 meeple wrote: Lomo getting rolled... Really has an extra expansion, a larger army and has been winning every skirmish. Not to mention he's done a bit of econ damage with vultures...
Actually I think Lomo's making better use of his dropships.
He has to rely on mobility because Really has such better map control.
Even though he took out Really's expo, that just puts them on even bases with Really controlling more space on the map. Lomo made his horrible position just a little better
On November 23 2009 21:14 kaleidoscope wrote: I LBed on Oz.. If coach cho isnt gonna put JD as his ace player next time, i'm not gonna vote for Oz again, except probably against Ace
On November 23 2009 21:14 kaleidoscope wrote: I LBed on Oz.. If coach cho isnt gonna put JD as his ace player next time, i'm not gonna vote for Oz again, except probably against Ace
Maybe this is Coach Cho's way of saying "Hey look, we NEED Jaedong to play in ace matches" to the fans and maybe Jaedong's parents and Hwaseung CEOs as well
Jaedong is the best choice for Ace matches at any time, but especially now in R1 when we are between OSL/MSL leagues there's nothing else to practice for. Oz needed to run up the score now to avoid chasing at the end like KT last season. On the other hand, maybe being out of playoff contention early will make it easier for Jaedong to score individual league wins.
Mr.Cho is simply doing his team and his number #1 player a world of good
1. Resting Jaedong = Reducing stress, work overload and energy ( FA controversy about him mega stressed )
2. Moulding his lower class players into stronger advanced players by sending them out into the Abyss allowing them to gain the experience needed so one day Oz won't have to rely on Jaedong constantly.
In the business world this is called Diversification, if supply from one source runs out... they simply rely on the second source this is essential for business success
On November 23 2009 21:35 SilverSkyLark wrote: Somehow my mentality of "Jaedong winning one game then another Oz player wins so Jaedong can rape ace match" is killing my LB.
On November 23 2009 21:35 SilverSkyLark wrote: Somehow my mentality of "Jaedong winning one game then another Oz player wins so Jaedong can rape ace match" is killing my LB.
SAME! Every time they play they lose in some embarrassing fashion and I think "that's it, next time it's anti-OZ-auto-vote" then i see them playing estro and think "oh they cant possibly lose this, maybe I WILL LB OZ." When will I learn .
Oh Oz, what's happened to you this season? Losing to ACE and estro, getting 3-0'd by SKT and KT...
I wish Coach Cho would let us know why he doesn't send JD...if it's a contract thing, just TELL US so we can stop pulling our hair out when JD isn't sent out.
On November 23 2009 20:45 ThePhan2m wrote: The point of this is, has been proven several times. ESTRO expects Jaedong, and sends someone who prepared vs him. While Oz has a player already prepared ONLY for Ace match. Bet its a new deal in Jaedongs contract, that they cant solely depend on him to practice for every significant team match.
Who cares? It's JD, and it's eSTRO. JD would eat anyone alive from eSTRO practice or no practice.
Yeah, they need to stop overanalyzing. They have the best player in the world; use him.
Meh, winning or not. I think it's fun they send out other players. Perhaps they will start playing well sooner or later instead of just being there to make sure Jaedong gets to the Ace match. For me Hwaseung starts to feel like a team now (A bad team sure, but a team nonetheless.)
Then again, Im more of an HiyA fan than Jaedong. So maybe I should just be quiet~
On November 23 2009 22:21 JWD wrote: There must have been something serious in JD's new contract about ace game appearances.
I really wonder if there is... maybe Jaedong/His Parents are afraid of him getting burnt out so much that they would specify the number of matches he's allowed to play.
Well, I believe it's time for Oz players to really step up. I'd rather see them fail now than reach the playoffs only to be dismantled because they have a shallow lineup.
On November 23 2009 23:54 Harpoon wrote: Well, I believe it's time for Oz players to really step up. I'd rather see them fail now than reach the playoffs only to be dismantled because they have a shallow lineup.
Yeah, Cho ain't crazy for trying to depend on other people for ace.Because right now and last season he knows Oz is basically Jaedong and not a team and that pressure is what caused JD to drop all 3 games in PL finals. The famous one two punch was basically a fancy term coined by fanboys to describe how Jaedong had to win 2 of 5 games and one more person could pull a win out of their ass. When the game gets to a best of 7 where 2 others have to win against the odds, and JD has to win twice against A+ to S level players... the odds of OZ winning is so low...
oz is going through a rebuilding phase right now. it happens to every team in every sport eventually.
the season is still young. CJ started off poorly last year and was able to make the playoffs by finishing strong. their young players struggled early, and then they bloomed. hopefully the same can happen to oz.
i feel for oz fans though, seeing your best player ride the bench is frustrating.
On November 23 2009 21:29 unionbank wrote: all you higga's need to settle down....
Mr.Cho is simply doing his team and his number #1 player a world of good
1. Resting Jaedong = Reducing stress, work overload and energy ( FA controversy about him mega stressed )
2. Moulding his lower class players into stronger advanced players by sending them out into the Abyss allowing them to gain the experience needed so one day Oz won't have to rely on Jaedong constantly.
In the business world this is called Diversification, if supply from one source runs out... they simply rely on the second source this is essential for business success
While I sort of agree with the resting Jaedong part, I disagree with your second point. The players Coach Cho is sending out don't have the potential to become star players, they're bad, and when they get sent out, they get crushed. If they wanted to develop anyone, it should be Hiya, he's a decent terran player and they could make him a solid terran player. I wouldn't disagree with KT sending out violet or stats, or CJ sending out movie, because those players have potential.
On November 23 2009 21:29 unionbank wrote: all you higga's need to settle down....
Mr.Cho is simply doing his team and his number #1 player a world of good
1. Resting Jaedong = Reducing stress, work overload and energy ( FA controversy about him mega stressed )
2. Moulding his lower class players into stronger advanced players by sending them out into the Abyss allowing them to gain the experience needed so one day Oz won't have to rely on Jaedong constantly.
In the business world this is called Diversification, if supply from one source runs out... they simply rely on the second source this is essential for business success
While I sort of agree with the resting Jaedong part, I disagree with your second point. The players Coach Cho is sending out don't have the potential to become star players, they're bad, and when they get sent out, they get crushed. If they wanted to develop anyone, it should be Hiya, he's a decent terran player and they could make him a solid terran player. I wouldn't disagree with KT sending out violet or stats, or CJ sending out movie, because those players have potential.
Thats a pretty large statement to say those players do not have potential. There is a difference between potential and skill. For all we know, Killer may be a monster in practice and fails so much on broadcast games. Hiya may have skill but maybe hes reached the peak of his potential. Jaedong has a lot of skill but its hard to imagine him having a lot more potential to be developed.
thanks a lot Coach Cho! we owe you big time man. can barely wait to see ggaemo getting mine raped by Really. any link for that game (as well as the others)? I just woke up and need to catch up.
On November 24 2009 01:15 zazen wrote: thanks a lot Coach Cho! we owe you big time man. can barely wait to see ggaemo getting mine raped by Really. any link for that game (as well as the others)? I just woke up and need to catch up.
He was mine-raped by UpMaGiC... and they'll be up in the small-vods thread when they are
On November 24 2009 01:15 zazen wrote: thanks a lot Coach Cho! we owe you big time man. can barely wait to see ggaemo getting mine raped by Really. any link for that game (as well as the others)? I just woke up and need to catch up.
On November 24 2009 01:15 zazen wrote: thanks a lot Coach Cho! we owe you big time man. can barely wait to see ggaemo getting mine raped by Really. any link for that game (as well as the others)? I just woke up and need to catch up.
On November 24 2009 00:04 esla_sol wrote: oz is going through a rebuilding phase right now. it happens to every team in every sport eventually.
the season is still young. CJ started off poorly last year and was able to make the playoffs by finishing strong. their young players struggled early, and then they bloomed. hopefully the same can happen to oz.
i feel for oz fans though, seeing your best player ride the bench is frustrating.
The problem with this being a "rebuilding phase" is that there's nothing to build on. Lomo sucks; he isn't going to stop sucking any time soon. He isn't going to become Effort or SkyHigh.
The same goes for ggaemo and killer. They simply don't have the chops for A-class StarCraft play. These are not diamonds in the rough; they are the rough.
OZ has nobody to build on. Hiya has probably reached his limits as a player, and so has BackHo. Everyone else, except Jaedong, is simply not up to the challenge. If they could get some fresh recruits and train them up, then maybe they'd have something. But until they do, throwing bad players into Ace matches isn't going to help anything.
On November 24 2009 00:04 esla_sol wrote: oz is going through a rebuilding phase right now. it happens to every team in every sport eventually.
the season is still young. CJ started off poorly last year and was able to make the playoffs by finishing strong. their young players struggled early, and then they bloomed. hopefully the same can happen to oz.
i feel for oz fans though, seeing your best player ride the bench is frustrating.
The problem with this being a "rebuilding phase" is that there's nothing to build on. Lomo sucks; he isn't going to stop sucking any time soon. He isn't going to become Effort or SkyHigh.
The same goes for ggaemo and killer. They simply don't have the chops for A-class StarCraft play. These are not diamonds in the rough; they are the rough.
OZ has nobody to build on. Hiya has probably reached his limits as a player, and so has BackHo. Everyone else, except Jaedong, is simply not up to the challenge. If they could get some fresh recruits and train them up, then maybe they'd have something. But until they do, throwing bad players into Ace matches isn't going to help anything.
Lomo has potential. He did well around the time of Ever 2008 iirc
What makes you so certain they aren't great in practice or something?
I really wonder why people are so surprised by the results.
You guys look really uninformed by thinking Oz would easily defeat eSTRO - and being surprised Coach Cho played a non-JD player in the ACE. (and believe it - he would have played Killer if he wasn't on Dream League)
I just watched the ggaemo vs UpMagiC game. Pure win by starvation and map control. Honestly, UpMagiC just pulled the pimpest play of the league so far. 1 mine hidden behind a lifted eng bay saves an expo from 17 billion hydras. Result:
On November 24 2009 05:24 zazen wrote: I really wonder why people are so surprised by the results.
You guys look really uninformed by thinking Oz would easily defeat eSTRO - and being surprised Coach Cho played a non-JD player in the ACE. (and believe it - he would have played Killer if he wasn't on Dream League)
I just watched the ggaemo vs UpMagiC game. Pure win by starvation and map control. Honestly, UpMagiC just pulled the pimpest play of the league so far. 1 mine hidden behind a lifted eng bay saves an expo from 17 billion hydras. Result:
Best. Picture. Ever. Man, eSTRO rules.
Unfortunately that picture doesn't show the full extent of how he made that face, it wasn't a simple jawdropping, it was the most amazing :OOOOO expression ever. AND to top it off, he went :8 (puffy cheeks) at something soonthereafter.
omfg the hwaseong oz coach needs to be fired. killer for ace? lomo for ace?
I mean really, what kinda shit is he smoking? Even if jaedong didn't practice 1 game for the ace match, he has infinitely a better chance to win compared to anyone else in OZ. I lost my liquibet too = (
so like coach cho send out Jaedong for ace match everytime in the last season then all the fanbois cry" WAA WAA OVERWORKED JAEDONG WAA WAA JAEDONG CARRIED THE TEAM WAA WAA"
so now coach cho kinda took the advice and try to bring other players up as ace then the crowd whines again " WAA WAA WAA U RETARD WHY DIDN'T U SEND OUT JAEDONG QQQQQQ THEY TOOK HIS JERB!!!"
On November 24 2009 09:41 hyst.eric.al wrote: HOLY SHIT i found jaedong in the booth girl!
holy shit, thanks for pointing that out. my girl friend gave me a really weird look because it looked as if i was staring at her breasts for a while.... she then proceeded to try to explain to me what porn was.
Edit: I read "try to find JD's face when I first looked" so I looked down and saw Jaedong vs. Sangho. I was like, there's JD's face. That was a lame challenge. But now I understand.
On November 24 2009 09:38 Shizuru~ wrote: so like coach cho send out Jaedong for ace match everytime in the last season then all the fanbois cry" WAA WAA OVERWORKED JAEDONG WAA WAA JAEDONG CARRIED THE TEAM WAA WAA"
so now coach cho kinda took the advice and try to bring other players up as ace then the crowd whines again " WAA WAA WAA U RETARD WHY DIDN'T U SEND OUT JAEDONG QQQQQQ THEY TOOK HIS JERB!!!"
hypocrites -.-
True, but jaedongs supporting cast wasnt THIS pathetic last year
On November 24 2009 10:18 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: ggaemo is going to be a force to be reckoned with. he reminds me of reach/garimto. but i have no idea how good he is.
WHOA!! Lets not go this far getting ggaemo to the likes of Reach/Garimto. When Reach played, there was this strong aura he had. Shall I say an aura of manliness?
I can understand Cho's decision of trying some new players in ace matches.
He knows that he can't do anything with a team of just Jaedong, he can't win PL by himself. Jaedong doesn't need to play ace matches to get better, while everyone else benefits more from getting the experience.
Cho could play Jaedong in every ace match and keep overloading him to get as many wins as possible, but when he knows they have no chance of winning PL it doesn't really matter anyway. Why strain Jaedong even more when he can strengthen the rest of his team? I'm sure even Jaedong understands and agrees with this. It must be frustrating for him to have to carry the other "newbs" over and over.
I'm just curious why Jaedong is content playing for a team that can't back him up. Despite being arguably the best SC player in the world he has no chance at a PL title because his team isn't good enough. If this was any other sport Jaedong would have left for one of the better teams in order to actually win.
On November 24 2009 03:22 .risingdragoon wrote: FUCK YA :D
estro always been strong against oz ahahha
UpMagiC always pimping, that mine defense was LMAROFL
UPMEAT GRINDAAARRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you had been watching upmagic's game, you'd be more worried about him than bragging about a lucky mine.
He seriously should have lost this game. The once great TvZ master losing to a player like ggaemo. Looks like his time is over.
Let me enlighten you about being the #1 UpMagic fan.
I'm almost ALWAYS worried when he plays and will ALWAYS brag. Yeah. UpMagiC does not play standard so his win/loss can never be simply glossed over as just a win or a loss.
Also it wasn't just 1 mine. There was at least 2 under the engineering bay.
On November 24 2009 03:22 .risingdragoon wrote: FUCK YA :D
estro always been strong against oz ahahha
UpMagiC always pimping, that mine defense was LMAROFL
UPMEAT GRINDAAARRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you had been watching upmagic's game, you'd be more worried about him than bragging about a lucky mine.
He seriously should have lost this game. The once great TvZ master losing to a player like ggaemo. Looks like his time is over.
Let me enlighten you about being the #1 UpMagic fan.
I'm almost ALWAYS worried when he plays and will ALWAYS brag. Yeah. UpMagiC does not play standard so his win/loss can never be simply glossed over as just a win or a loss.
Also it wasn't just 1 mine. There was at least 2 under the engineering bay.
Yea, UpMagic's games have never been ezpz. Instead they are like "aww ..." then "HOLY FUCK WHAT WAS HE THINKING ?!?!?!?!?? WHAT A BALLER" ... then "GG ... recommended for sure" ...
=) I'm not his fan, though I love his games (does that make me his fan too? lol)
On November 24 2009 09:38 Shizuru~ wrote: so like coach cho send out Jaedong for ace match everytime in the last season then all the fanbois cry" WAA WAA OVERWORKED JAEDONG WAA WAA JAEDONG CARRIED THE TEAM WAA WAA"
so now coach cho kinda took the advice and try to bring other players up as ace then the crowd whines again " WAA WAA WAA U RETARD WHY DIDN'T U SEND OUT JAEDONG QQQQQQ THEY TOOK HIS JERB!!!"
hypocrites -.-
True, but jaedongs supporting cast wasnt THIS pathetic last year
"Fanboys" were ok with JD being ace, but they werent happy about the ammount of games he had to play. They did not flame the coach for sending the only good player from its team, they were angry because he had to.
And even if some would agree on JD not being ace every time, not being ace almost at all it's outrageous.
Jaedong may have signed a clause that said he cannot play in more than 50% of the Ace matches when he re-signed with Hwaseung, which would explain why he's played in 2/5 of them this season.