• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:59
CEST 08:59
KST 15:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed18Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Who will win EWC 2025? Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Soulkey Muta Micro Map? BW General Discussion [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 677 users

ZvP problems with macro. - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
sCuMBaG
Profile Joined August 2006
United Kingdom1144 Posts
June 21 2017 15:34 GMT
#21
As a Protoss player I thought I'd chip in with my 2 cents...

I think what is really important against any decent protoss is scouting.
Obviously I will be able to scout you early - and unless I fuck up, you shouldn't be able to kill my probe until ling speed.
As soon as you have ling speed make sure you get my probe (check the corners as well for a hiding probe) and then have your ling somewhere around my natural to make sure I don't get to scout you.

From toss perspective scouting is everything. If you do this right, the first time I'll be able to get a sense of you gameplan is with my first sair - in case you are aggressive this might even be too late... in case you go for a 3 hatch, 1gas hydra bust.

I would say what's really important to take away from this is:

- have a game plan. even if it's "defend until late game" to play a macro game. sometimes you will have to adjust, but go into a match with a defined strat.
- try hard to keep the protoss in the dark. zerg will be the aggressor or at least dictate the speed of the game in the majority of cases. if I don't know what you're doing until sair, I most likely have to delay a lot of my timings to be safe.
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States910 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-21 15:45:17
June 21 2017 15:44 GMT
#22
On June 21 2017 23:52 L_Master wrote:
You kinda do. If all three morph at once then you're 99.9% expecting 6 lings, unless zerg is being on hell of a greedy little sucker.

Fine, then just morph one pair of lings, then select the other two larvae and morph two more pairs, then if the Protoss doesn't build a cannon in time go run by.
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
June 21 2017 16:09 GMT
#23
On June 22 2017 00:44 iopq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 23:52 L_Master wrote:
You kinda do. If all three morph at once then you're 99.9% expecting 6 lings, unless zerg is being on hell of a greedy little sucker.

Fine, then just morph one pair of lings, then select the other two larvae and morph two more pairs, then if the Protoss doesn't build a cannon in time go run by.


I did say that right after the part you quoted, just that I never see zergs actually do so :D

EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States910 Posts
June 21 2017 16:42 GMT
#24
On June 22 2017 01:09 L_Master wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2017 00:44 iopq wrote:
On June 21 2017 23:52 L_Master wrote:
You kinda do. If all three morph at once then you're 99.9% expecting 6 lings, unless zerg is being on hell of a greedy little sucker.

Fine, then just morph one pair of lings, then select the other two larvae and morph two more pairs, then if the Protoss doesn't build a cannon in time go run by.


I did say that right after the part you quoted, just that I never see zergs actually do so :D


well, if you throw down hatch before lings, you end up squeezing lings out one by one anyway because you don't have 150 minerals exactly
robaq
Profile Joined December 2011
Poland186 Posts
June 21 2017 17:52 GMT
#25
Ok so since I posted my replays my winrate in ZvP went way up, and it wasn't even so hard. It turned out that i misunderstood the build. I always knew that the standard macro play was 5 hatch hydra, but somehow never heard of 5 hatch before gas. When I got it right I started demolishing almost every protoss on EU bnet, and now since i'm getting enough stuff to actually fight I can actually micro my units correctly and snipe HTs and obs.
I have only one question left, how to react when toss decides to be agressive and sends like ~5 first zealots splitting them across my expansions? I instantly make lings when i see him move out, but often I wont't have much larva so I have to use drones to defend. So I lose mining time, I lose lings, which could be drones, and if the toss has really good micro I'll just gg out after losing many, many drones.
Omg BW is back | DB: dotabuff.com/players/83694874 | MAL: myanimelist.net/animelist/robaq
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States910 Posts
June 21 2017 18:53 GMT
#26
when you reach about 25 supply, make a few extra lings up to 27, that's usually the timing when Protoss sends 4 zealots out - if you saved the initial 6 lings that would put you to 10 lings - you can't kill 4 zealots with them (especially if he microes), but if he actually commits to moving out you can probably get a few more out while he's walking and you'll be fine

I usually still go 3 hatch spire for scourge and potential muta if I feel like it - some Protoss players will make an annoying super fast speedlot attack before I am set up to defend with hydra. I've been hit with a +1 speedlot rush (AFTER one corsair) at 7:15 before which totally messed up my economy.
Luddite
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2315 Posts
June 25 2017 02:23 GMT
#27
On June 22 2017 03:53 iopq wrote:
when you reach about 25 supply, make a few extra lings up to 27, that's usually the timing when Protoss sends 4 zealots out - if you saved the initial 6 lings that would put you to 10 lings - you can't kill 4 zealots with them (especially if he microes), but if he actually commits to moving out you can probably get a few more out while he's walking and you'll be fine


What do you do if he doesn't move out? I feel like they can move out almost at any time, with any number of zealots (although that might just be because I'm playing against noobs who don't have a polished build order). How many zerglings do you need to make if he hasn't pushed out yet and you can't see his army?
Can't believe I'm still here playing this same game
Bakuryu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany1065 Posts
June 25 2017 10:01 GMT
#28
with 3 hatch spire vs FFE, you start with few lings, protoss harasses with 1-3 zealots, you constantly have so many lings, that if he "commits" his harass, you can make enough to kill the zealot. after that, your ling speed should finish and protoss should stop the zeal harass, until he has a 2nd cannon in nat and zeal speed/+1. in that time, you dont make any more lings, place your speedlings outside his nat and drone only. build order wise you get 3 hatch spire, 4th and 5th hatch and if he start movng out with zealots again (because of 2nd cannon/zealspeed/+1) you defend it with sunkens and/or your 2nd step unit (muta/lurker/hydra), depending on what build/style you want to play.
AsianEcksDragon
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1036 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-26 13:37:23
June 26 2017 05:59 GMT
#29
-You started with a really aggressive opening with lots lings so the burden is on you to deal damage with them and you did great! Got a few probes, forced a cannon in his main, delayed his nexus, and held off his harassment yourself.

-Your natural lacked any sort of sim city which would've been useful for holding off pure zealot comps.

-Whenever Protoss attacks, he's gonna expand. You held off the attack with Hydras to spare so those could have been pocket speedlings used to deny him the expansion and force him to allocate part of his army to guard it.

-So you made your 4th and 5th hatch in your main but they are spread really far apart for some reason. Keep them compact and Shift + F2 them. Then you can allocate your number hotkeys on the remaining hatcheries. Your late game macro should look something like: 5sh6sh7sh8sh9sh0sh F2-(click)sh (click)sh (click)sh.

神は乗り越えられる試練しか与えない
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6175 Posts
June 28 2017 16:42 GMT
#30
On June 22 2017 01:09 L_Master wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2017 00:44 iopq wrote:
On June 21 2017 23:52 L_Master wrote:
You kinda do. If all three morph at once then you're 99.9% expecting 6 lings, unless zerg is being on hell of a greedy little sucker.

Fine, then just morph one pair of lings, then select the other two larvae and morph two more pairs, then if the Protoss doesn't build a cannon in time go run by.


I did say that right after the part you quoted, just that I never see zergs actually do so :D


well, I never see toss skip the cannon either. )

To Luddite: vs 12 hatch if toss does not want to go cannon rush, they can also just cancel the forge and go nexus and gateway before rebuilding it. This of course requires scouting after first pylon and sending second probe right when you scouted empty base with your first scout.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 213
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 37300
Hyuk 2629
PianO 370
Leta 175
Dewaltoss 119
Larva 102
Backho 75
ajuk12(nOOB) 23
Dota 2
ODPixel403
NeuroSwarm140
XcaliburYe108
XaKoH 93
League of Legends
JimRising 715
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1388
Super Smash Bros
Westballz30
amsayoshi10
Other Games
summit1g11988
SortOf18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2437
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH232
• practicex 55
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota287
League of Legends
• Rush1915
• HappyZerGling101
Other Games
• WagamamaTV167
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 1m
Online Event
9h 1m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
11h 1m
Esports World Cup
2 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.