|
intrigue
Washington, D.C9931 Posts
apparently your feelings are too easily hurt perhaps i shouldn't have watched the replay and just said 'wow you're so good' instead of ololloling at your marines almost killing your own scvs
read what i said originally and tell me how it is different from the posts following mine if you post a replay here and ask for critique be a little humbler when everyone says the same damn thing
oh and don't flatter yourself i don't even bother reading most of your threads anymore to "stalk" you. hahaha jesus
|
I think vs 4 pool is rather easy. Just do the best with like 4-5 scv's and what ever marines you have. Focus on macro at the same time. Keep your barracks pumping so then you eventually have 4-5 marines. Then you just move out to your ramp (bring 2-3 scv's if you need to), and hold that position until your academy comes on line. Now your at two rax m&m with like 10 marines, either attack or FE and make sure he has no way to come back. Sad to lose all buildings and then get offensive hatched.
I know you will retort "watch replay" but you do everything mistakenly I believe from seeing this replay. So it's hard to commit on do this or that aside from what has been said, so I offer what I do when i become 4 pooled.
|
Calgary25938 Posts
What is the purpose of this post? You can't micro and your defense was weak. Many people have posted that and refuse to listen to their advice.
So, what do you want Mitsy? I'll tell you what you want - you want nothing.
|
mitsy
for the most part you played fine vs the 4pool. However, i don't think the root of your problem lies largely in "how to stop a 4pool," but rather how do deal w/ "crisis management."
In my opinion, having strong crisis management is the hallmark of an expert player. Most people just tend to crumble immediately and stop using their brain. Either way, lets discuss a few things
First of all, in crisis type situations the largest mistake is either to overreact or to underreact. In this game, your largest problem was the overreaction at the start, you stopped ALL your SCVs from mining to protect the marine. Obviously, not stopping any would have resulted in an immediate GG. However, he is at a mineral disadvantage (having only 4-5 drones at his base probably, and i say probably since you didn't have vision of him) thus you need to keep your mineral advantage while continuing to make marines.
I think an immediate bunker is not necessarily a bad idea at all. Although it seems wasteful, all you actually need to do at the early point in the game is stay alive. Thus i think an immediate bunker (directly between your geyser and CC) would have been an excellent decision.
Also important to note, SCVs are pretty strong. Don't underestimate them : ].
Also, i would opt for a very fast academy over a factory, but i assume you made the factory cuz of the off-hatch
either way, fun game to watch
morale: don't overreact in extremely intense situations
[edit]
continue to do the build that you do. One of the LARGEST mistakes in BW is not being stubborn enough. People tend to think "well shit, i lost to an early rush, so i need to make marines earlier" or in ZvT for example "well i shuld 10 hatch 9 pool every ZvT to avoid being bunker rushed."
In both of these situations, losing to 4pool or bunker rush, control is the major issue that causes the loss/win in these situations. So, in the future, try to stick with exactly what you are doing, but just playing a little less sloppily. As a result, you will REALLY start to understand the strengths and weaknesses of certain builds, as opposed to blindly assuming A > B > C > A etc
|
On January 24 2006 12:00 mitsy wrote: most of you are retards. i listened to the good advice. those of you who said stupid things, pretended to know what you were talking about (didnt see rep, didnt read thread) but didnt are the retards. those of u saying stupid shit like patriot and yes, intrigue, saying "yeah hes an idiot", shut the fuck up. -_- who comes to tlnet only to be a dumb dick and stalk me, shut the fuck up. pffff who comes to this thread just to flame me shut the fuck up.
this thread is for: the rep the strategies and mistakes in the rep
NOT for: dumb fags talking about 4pool like they know what happened giving bad advice (speaksinriddles, alphaentity, pockypocky, intrigue, ahk-gosu) dumb fags who have to flame me in every thread not even pretending to know what's going on (patriot, -_-, pfff, patriot's fag boyfriend intrigue)
so hard to understand?
WOW out of a random sampling of 8 TLnetters, ONE motherfucker stayed on topic and was helpful that's 12.5%. sounds about right.
i gave reasons for disagreeing with the advice that i did. no one gave reasons for bitching and moaning about me disagreeing with some of the advice which, imo didnt reflect a watching of the rep and therefore was off topic.
if u dont want to watch the rep, or respond to REASONS that are in this thread, DONT POST. find some other topic to take a dump in. god knows theres plenty of outhouses about. so go poop in those.
I watched the rep, read the thread, and am trying to talk about strategy in as neutral terms as possible.
I think T had should have won that game. I think in some other threads you mentioned you four pool 200 apm players occasionaly so I wouldn't thought you would have read it better.
T messed up early with his barracks. I'm not sure if he canceled his barracks, but if he didn't, he should've. Also, T didn't lift his surviving barracks fast enough (when no more marines had time to come before it would explode).
More importantly, T's early game marine and scv micro was bad. I'm not sure how many lings he killed, but it wasn't many. And while that's not in itself that bad, he lost 5+ scv's in the process.
Later in the game T floats his barracks, which was a very bad idea. He should've pumped marines until he filled his barracks.
Also, the armory was a bad idea for T. He couldn't have built enough goliath to stop two hatch muta anyway.
You need to cool down. People aren't obsessed with you. You can certainly get a rise out of me with the best of them, but I'm not harboring any grudge. And my post in this thread showed that. The only thing which could've been interpreted as offensive was me agreeing with pfff for saying you weren't taking advice and just attacking everyone who tried to give it. Which is just true. At least in my opinion. But it's nothing to get hung up about. Unless you found me saying what T did wrong offensive... which just doesn't make sense.
So micro was your biggest mistake (maybe because you didn't know what to do, like day said?) and I don't see any way to improve your unit control besides playing more games.
I think you're trying WAY too hard to feel persecuted.
|
United States10774 Posts
Misty, what do you want out of this thread? Honestly, your problems have already been stated.
|
|
On January 24 2006 19:48 OneOther wrote: Misty, what do you want out of this thread? Honestly, your problems have already been stated.
You claim to be a genius, while you're only a mediocre Brood War player with a fantastic ego. Then, you receive advice and reject it and don't feel your control is lacking in the slightest. You then reply saying "I trusted you guys for real advice, but I just got flamed omg!"
|
thats the difference to gosus : They are able to micro like god and still build rines/scvs. bad players TRY to micro but fail AND miss to build more units..
4 pool is really hard sometimes, though.. But i like nothing more than a 9 pool as terra. Its so easy to defend and fast m&m's are so easy win..
|
i agree w day, and someone tried to mention this before. i didn't have to stop mining completely, or for as long as i did.
also that an immediate bunker in my minerals would have been good. and yeah the fact was because 3 sunkens were hitting my CC.
as for altering my build order, i think the barracks could be done on 10 instead of 11 or 11 with 50 minerals sitting around, which is what it looks like in the rep. 9 depot, 10 rax, why make it later? no scouting earlier, just have to deal with a 4pool. and not lose the rax, no reason to.
the rest of you really are some opportunistic pricks. i responded fairly to some advice i disagreed with, and u guys talk about nothing but myself instead of my disagreements. instead of saying "no, your micro was bad because X Y Z" u guys say "u micro bad! u newb! u think u so smart!" grow up, idiots. you think that's a worthy contribution to the discussion?
let's recall the bullshit:
On January 23 2006 23:49 SpeaKinRiddleS wrote: you're making things more complicated than they are. The best way to put away a 4 pool or some outlandish non-sense of that sort is to 8 or 9 rax (BEFORE the depot) and just using one rax instead of two to get the early marines out thereby springing for the early academy. By doing this you can counter very early with medics and firebats.
If you're caught with your pants down you can cancel that 2nd rax and easily afford an early bunker (which is ideal in between your mining scvs). Hold your ground until the first firebat/medic or two come out and the game's over. Also make sure your buildings hug that nearby reigon where your bunker is. You can unload marines, attack, and quickly reload to chase off harassing zerglings.
There's absolutely no reason to drag a 4 pool game out for 20 minutes. (i disagreed with this and gave reasons)
On January 24 2006 00:05 alphaentity wrote: Yea dude, u lost not cause of strategy, but cause of micro:
you had roughly 12 scvs and 2 marines against 6 or 8 lings. Take 6 scvs and 2 rines to chase arround the lings while 6 scv mine.... and you should have built bunker closer to ur barracks. (disagreed with this and gave reasons)
On January 24 2006 02:39 PockyPocky wrote: hmm ya i watched the replay too, your micro was pretty horrible T_T.... and i dont know why you bothered to get tanks
but ya, u just plainly microed bad, that's all (disagreed with this and gave reasons)
then MaTRiX[SiN] said good helpful things, i listened, talked with him. intrigue responded somewhat thoughtfully to my disagreement. that was good.
On January 24 2006 09:21 ahk-gosu wrote: with 4 pool he wont be getting gas units or buildings any time soon. thus he will only have zerglings without foot speed. thus marines will own them if used correctly. scouting is very important. send out scvs earlier if you dont think you can block 4 pools. usually i have 1 marine out by the time lings arrive. i put it in between my scvs and micro the best i can.
if my scouting scv reaches their base, try to kill drones while he is busy microing lings. if he chases your scv, you will have time to build more defense. (i disagreed with this with good reasons)
that's all that happened. problem? no. then comes this avalanche of bullshit dumb motherfuckers:
On January 24 2006 09:48 Patriot.dlk wrote: You played perfectly. 4pool > all.
Or just take some advice when you ask for it, if you believe strongly to know allready then dont post. Loosing to fourpool / hatch in your base is clumsy.. So just dont be clumsy
On January 24 2006 10:23 intrigue wrote: agreed patriot fuck these guys
On January 24 2006 11:19 intrigue wrote: oh okay i'm sorry for pointing out painfully obvious flaws in your play that you didn't like to hear but justify through sorely inexperienced-sounding reasonings
... if you keep on offering excuses and 'better' solutions to everything then you shouldn't lose to a weak fourpool saying "ur clumbsy" or "u could micro betta" is not really substanitive at all, nor is "i agree" (w patriot's mocking, sarcastic, missing the point post) so blow it out your ass. the ppl i said didnt watch the rep earlier in the thread clearly didnt. u interpret me pointing this out as me rejecting all advice when i clearly didnt. you assholes ruined this thread:
On January 24 2006 11:31 pfff wrote: mitsy is such a retard. asking for help and then acting like a bitch and refusing to accept it. being a dumbass in pretty much every thread he posts in. sometimes i really believe that he isnt faking his personality and really is like he acts.
On January 24 2006 11:37 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 11:31 pfff wrote: mitsy is such a retard. asking for help and then acting like a bitch and refusing to accept it. being a dumbass in pretty much every thread he posts in. sometimes i really believe that he isnt faking his personality and really is like he acts. Finally something we can agree on. I watched the rep, but everyone already mentioned your most obvious mistakes. I think you should really just play more. Your micro is very lacking. Try to keep your scv's together in a group always attacking and moving not sitting and waiting to be attacked. Dance those marines better. Also, strategy wise, even once you saw what he was doing you didn't adapt well at all. I know you won't like to hear it, but play more games and you'll get better at controling your units while macroing and thinking about what to do next.
On January 24 2006 13:11 pfff wrote: youre such a sad retard in the first ten posts of this thread, yours not including, advice was given. you just kept up with acting like a dumbass so people stopped giving advice and started to notice how you were acting like an ungrateful bitch. honestly, there might be a reason that people go out of their way just to flame you? i really hope the way you act is just some little thing you do to amuse yourself, cuz otherwise youre a really sad stupid person.
biggest asshole here so far is pfffff
On January 24 2006 13:12 intrigue wrote: apparently your feelings are too easily hurt perhaps i shouldn't have watched the replay and just said 'wow you're so good' instead of ololloling at your marines almost killing your own scvs
read what i said originally and tell me how it is different from the posts following mine if you post a replay here and ask for critique be a little humbler when everyone says the same damn thing
oh and don't flatter yourself i don't even bother reading most of your threads anymore to "stalk" you. hahaha jesus
On January 24 2006 13:56 Chill wrote: What is the purpose of this post? You can't micro and your defense was weak. Many people have posted that and refuse to listen to their advice.
So, what do you want Mitsy? I'll tell you what you want - you want nothing. fucker that's so substanitive
On January 24 2006 19:30 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 12:00 mitsy wrote: most of you are retards. i listened to the good advice. those of you who said stupid things, pretended to know what you were talking about (didnt see rep, didnt read thread) but didnt are the retards. those of u saying stupid shit like patriot and yes, intrigue, saying "yeah hes an idiot", shut the fuck up. -_- who comes to tlnet only to be a dumb dick and stalk me, shut the fuck up. pffff who comes to this thread just to flame me shut the fuck up.
this thread is for: the rep the strategies and mistakes in the rep
NOT for: dumb fags talking about 4pool like they know what happened giving bad advice (speaksinriddles, alphaentity, pockypocky, intrigue, ahk-gosu) dumb fags who have to flame me in every thread not even pretending to know what's going on (patriot, -_-, pfff, patriot's fag boyfriend intrigue)
so hard to understand?
WOW out of a random sampling of 8 TLnetters, ONE motherfucker stayed on topic and was helpful that's 12.5%. sounds about right.
i gave reasons for disagreeing with the advice that i did. no one gave reasons for bitching and moaning about me disagreeing with some of the advice which, imo didnt reflect a watching of the rep and therefore was off topic.
if u dont want to watch the rep, or respond to REASONS that are in this thread, DONT POST. find some other topic to take a dump in. god knows theres plenty of outhouses about. so go poop in those. I watched the rep, read the thread, and am trying to talk about strategy in as neutral terms as possible. I think T had should have won that game. I think in some other threads you mentioned you four pool 200 apm players occasionaly so I wouldn't thought you would have read it better. T messed up early with his barracks. I'm not sure if he canceled his barracks, but if he didn't, he should've. Also, T didn't lift his surviving barracks fast enough (when no more marines had time to come before it would explode). More importantly, T's early game marine and scv micro was bad. I'm not sure how many lings he killed, but it wasn't many. And while that's not in itself that bad, he lost 5+ scv's in the process. Later in the game T floats his barracks, which was a very bad idea. He should've pumped marines until he filled his barracks. Also, the armory was a bad idea for T. He couldn't have built enough goliath to stop two hatch muta anyway. You need to cool down. People aren't obsessed with you. You can certainly get a rise out of me with the best of them, but I'm not harboring any grudge. And my post in this thread showed that. The only thing which could've been interpreted as offensive was me agreeing with pfff for saying you weren't taking advice and just attacking everyone who tried to give it. Which is just true. At least in my opinion. But it's nothing to get hung up about. Unless you found me saying what T did wrong offensive... which just doesn't make sense. So micro was your biggest mistake (maybe because you didn't know what to do, like day said?) and I don't see any way to improve your unit control besides playing more games. I think you're trying WAY too hard to feel persecuted. "your micro was bad" gee thanks for the revelation, ill put that one to good use, not like something that ingenius hasn't been posted here before. and u only took 500 wds to say it, as usual
On January 24 2006 19:48 OneOther wrote: Misty, what do you want out of this thread? Honestly, your problems have already been stated.
On January 24 2006 20:34 exalted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 19:48 OneOther wrote: Misty, what do you want out of this thread? Honestly, your problems have already been stated. You claim to be a genius, while you're only a mediocre Brood War player with a fantastic ego. Then, you receive advice and reject it and don't feel your control is lacking in the slightest. You then reply saying "I trusted you guys for real advice, but I just got flamed omg!" i didnt reject substanitive advice in this thread at all. i pointed out ppl saying things that clearly did not even apply to the game in question. fuck all that.
|
On January 25 2006 04:38 mitsy wrote:i agree w day, and someone tried to mention this before. i didn't have to stop mining completely, or for as long as i did. also that an immediate bunker in my minerals would have been good. and yeah the fact was because 3 sunkens were hitting my CC. as for altering my build order, i think the barracks could be done on 10 instead of 11 or 11 with 50 minerals sitting around, which is what it looks like in the rep. 9 depot, 10 rax, why make it later? no scouting earlier, just have to deal with a 4pool. and not lose the rax, no reason to. the rest of you really are some opportunistic pricks. i responded fairly to some advice i disagreed with, and u guys talk about nothing but myself instead of my disagreements. instead of saying "no, your micro was bad because X Y Z" u guys say "u micro bad! u newb! u think u so smart!" grow up, idiots. you think that's a worthy contribution to the discussion? let's recall the bullshit: Show nested quote +On January 23 2006 23:49 SpeaKinRiddleS wrote: you're making things more complicated than they are. The best way to put away a 4 pool or some outlandish non-sense of that sort is to 8 or 9 rax (BEFORE the depot) and just using one rax instead of two to get the early marines out thereby springing for the early academy. By doing this you can counter very early with medics and firebats.
If you're caught with your pants down you can cancel that 2nd rax and easily afford an early bunker (which is ideal in between your mining scvs). Hold your ground until the first firebat/medic or two come out and the game's over. Also make sure your buildings hug that nearby reigon where your bunker is. You can unload marines, attack, and quickly reload to chase off harassing zerglings.
There's absolutely no reason to drag a 4 pool game out for 20 minutes. (i disagreed with this and gave reasons) Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 00:05 alphaentity wrote: Yea dude, u lost not cause of strategy, but cause of micro:
you had roughly 12 scvs and 2 marines against 6 or 8 lings. Take 6 scvs and 2 rines to chase arround the lings while 6 scv mine.... and you should have built bunker closer to ur barracks. (disagreed with this and gave reasons) Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 02:39 PockyPocky wrote: hmm ya i watched the replay too, your micro was pretty horrible T_T.... and i dont know why you bothered to get tanks
but ya, u just plainly microed bad, that's all (disagreed with this and gave reasons) then MaTRiX[SiN] said good helpful things, i listened, talked with him. intrigue responded somewhat thoughtfully to my disagreement. that was good. Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 09:21 ahk-gosu wrote: with 4 pool he wont be getting gas units or buildings any time soon. thus he will only have zerglings without foot speed. thus marines will own them if used correctly. scouting is very important. send out scvs earlier if you dont think you can block 4 pools. usually i have 1 marine out by the time lings arrive. i put it in between my scvs and micro the best i can.
if my scouting scv reaches their base, try to kill drones while he is busy microing lings. if he chases your scv, you will have time to build more defense. (i disagreed with this with good reasons) that's all that happened. problem? no. then comes this avalanche of bullshit dumb motherfuckers: Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 09:48 Patriot.dlk wrote: You played perfectly. 4pool > all.
Or just take some advice when you ask for it, if you believe strongly to know allready then dont post. Loosing to fourpool / hatch in your base is clumsy.. So just dont be clumsy fuck these guys Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 11:19 intrigue wrote: oh okay i'm sorry for pointing out painfully obvious flaws in your play that you didn't like to hear but justify through sorely inexperienced-sounding reasonings
... if you keep on offering excuses and 'better' solutions to everything then you shouldn't lose to a weak fourpool saying "ur clumbsy" or "u could micro betta" is not really substanitive at all, nor is "i agree" (w patriot's mocking, sarcastic, missing the point post) so blow it out your ass. the ppl i said didnt watch the rep earlier in the thread clearly didnt. u interpret me pointing this out as me rejecting all advice when i clearly didnt. you assholes ruined this thread: Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 11:31 pfff wrote: mitsy is such a retard. asking for help and then acting like a bitch and refusing to accept it. being a dumbass in pretty much every thread he posts in. sometimes i really believe that he isnt faking his personality and really is like he acts. Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 11:37 -_- wrote:On January 24 2006 11:31 pfff wrote: mitsy is such a retard. asking for help and then acting like a bitch and refusing to accept it. being a dumbass in pretty much every thread he posts in. sometimes i really believe that he isnt faking his personality and really is like he acts. Finally something we can agree on. I watched the rep, but everyone already mentioned your most obvious mistakes. I think you should really just play more. Your micro is very lacking. Try to keep your scv's together in a group always attacking and moving not sitting and waiting to be attacked. Dance those marines better. Also, strategy wise, even once you saw what he was doing you didn't adapt well at all. I know you won't like to hear it, but play more games and you'll get better at controling your units while macroing and thinking about what to do next. Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 13:11 pfff wrote: youre such a sad retard in the first ten posts of this thread, yours not including, advice was given. you just kept up with acting like a dumbass so people stopped giving advice and started to notice how you were acting like an ungrateful bitch. honestly, there might be a reason that people go out of their way just to flame you? i really hope the way you act is just some little thing you do to amuse yourself, cuz otherwise youre a really sad stupid person.
biggest asshole here so far is pfffff Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 13:12 intrigue wrote: apparently your feelings are too easily hurt perhaps i shouldn't have watched the replay and just said 'wow you're so good' instead of ololloling at your marines almost killing your own scvs
read what i said originally and tell me how it is different from the posts following mine if you post a replay here and ask for critique be a little humbler when everyone says the same damn thing
oh and don't flatter yourself i don't even bother reading most of your threads anymore to "stalk" you. hahaha jesus Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 13:56 Chill wrote: What is the purpose of this post? You can't micro and your defense was weak. Many people have posted that and refuse to listen to their advice.
So, what do you want Mitsy? I'll tell you what you want - you want nothing. fucker that's so substanitive Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 19:30 -_- wrote:On January 24 2006 12:00 mitsy wrote: most of you are retards. i listened to the good advice. those of you who said stupid things, pretended to know what you were talking about (didnt see rep, didnt read thread) but didnt are the retards. those of u saying stupid shit like patriot and yes, intrigue, saying "yeah hes an idiot", shut the fuck up. -_- who comes to tlnet only to be a dumb dick and stalk me, shut the fuck up. pffff who comes to this thread just to flame me shut the fuck up.
this thread is for: the rep the strategies and mistakes in the rep
NOT for: dumb fags talking about 4pool like they know what happened giving bad advice (speaksinriddles, alphaentity, pockypocky, intrigue, ahk-gosu) dumb fags who have to flame me in every thread not even pretending to know what's going on (patriot, -_-, pfff, patriot's fag boyfriend intrigue)
so hard to understand?
WOW out of a random sampling of 8 TLnetters, ONE motherfucker stayed on topic and was helpful that's 12.5%. sounds about right.
i gave reasons for disagreeing with the advice that i did. no one gave reasons for bitching and moaning about me disagreeing with some of the advice which, imo didnt reflect a watching of the rep and therefore was off topic.
if u dont want to watch the rep, or respond to REASONS that are in this thread, DONT POST. find some other topic to take a dump in. god knows theres plenty of outhouses about. so go poop in those. I watched the rep, read the thread, and am trying to talk about strategy in as neutral terms as possible. I think T had should have won that game. I think in some other threads you mentioned you four pool 200 apm players occasionaly so I wouldn't thought you would have read it better. T messed up early with his barracks. I'm not sure if he canceled his barracks, but if he didn't, he should've. Also, T didn't lift his surviving barracks fast enough (when no more marines had time to come before it would explode). More importantly, T's early game marine and scv micro was bad. I'm not sure how many lings he killed, but it wasn't many. And while that's not in itself that bad, he lost 5+ scv's in the process. Later in the game T floats his barracks, which was a very bad idea. He should've pumped marines until he filled his barracks. Also, the armory was a bad idea for T. He couldn't have built enough goliath to stop two hatch muta anyway. You need to cool down. People aren't obsessed with you. You can certainly get a rise out of me with the best of them, but I'm not harboring any grudge. And my post in this thread showed that. The only thing which could've been interpreted as offensive was me agreeing with pfff for saying you weren't taking advice and just attacking everyone who tried to give it. Which is just true. At least in my opinion. But it's nothing to get hung up about. Unless you found me saying what T did wrong offensive... which just doesn't make sense. So micro was your biggest mistake (maybe because you didn't know what to do, like day said?) and I don't see any way to improve your unit control besides playing more games. I think you're trying WAY too hard to feel persecuted. "your micro was bad" gee thanks for the revelation, ill put that one to good use, not like something that ingenius hasn't been posted here before. and u only took 500 wds to say it, as usual Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 19:48 OneOther wrote: Misty, what do you want out of this thread? Honestly, your problems have already been stated. Show nested quote +On January 24 2006 20:34 exalted wrote:On January 24 2006 19:48 OneOther wrote: Misty, what do you want out of this thread? Honestly, your problems have already been stated. You claim to be a genius, while you're only a mediocre Brood War player with a fantastic ego. Then, you receive advice and reject it and don't feel your control is lacking in the slightest. You then reply saying "I trusted you guys for real advice, but I just got flamed omg!" i didnt reject substanitive advice in this thread at all. i pointed out ppl saying things that clearly did not even apply to the game in question. fuck all that.
Huh? I told you you should've lifted your barracks faster. You shouldn't have lifted your barracks (you needed to fill your bunkers or at least not leave one empty). You shouldn't have gone armory because even if he was going muta you couldn't have stopped him, but he couldn't have been if you had read the game better.
But I think main reason you lost is because your early game micro was lacking.
|
-_- get out of this thread pls
|
On January 25 2006 05:42 mitsy wrote: -_- get out of this thread pls
You've got to learn how to confront problems in your game rather than run away.
|
-_- you said nothing in this thread that wasn't already said except a bunch of off topic bullshit. and after i pointed that out, you said it again?
you want a confrontation? you are shit. i hope someone kills you. you don't belong anywhere as far as i'm concerned. i'll confront you any day of the week in any dark alley you fucking nerd.
i'll confront you in any moderated debate.
what the fuck do you mean? you are shit in any confrontation, especially ones involving text and thinking, as you have so repeatedly proven. so GET THE FUCK OUT. get it?
|
Did anyone se his first scouting scv waitjng in the middle of the map? He could have done something with that to change the outcome of the game. He could have canceled his second rax in his main and proxy rax near the Zerg base.
|
1. Don't let scv stand still while lings are coming at you, attack move. You proly just stopped. scv didn't even fight, they ran.
2. Maybe, maybe not, but you saw lings coming at you with your scout, be ready, maybe bunker
2. Don;t pull off all scv, you were at 98 mineral when you really wanted to build a bunker
3. Don't attack your own scv
4. Don't stop making marines
5. Too many scv doing nothing, what a waste of apm
6. you built bunker away from your barrack, no prob with that, but if you are going to rebuild your barrack, build it near the bunker.
7. don't kill your own tank (sieging it in mineral)
8. gg
|
United States10774 Posts
|
oh please! let's get rid of mitsy once and for all!
|
Well people did give him really awful advice, people who shouldn't be giving advice in the Strategy forum at all honestly.
8 or 9 rax before depot? People who think that's a useful counter to 4pool should not be posting anything but questions in the Strategy forum. It sounds vulgar, but that is retarded.
His problem wasn't really his micro, either. It wasn't perfect but it was sufficient enough to beat 4pool.
As soon as you see 6 lings on the map at 4pool speed, you should no longer care about sticking to solid every-game conventions. You don't care about anything but stopping his 4pool, because if you can stop it, you've won the game, no matter how awkwardly positioned your structures are or how many bunkers you spent 100 minerals on.
As long as you can sustain 1 rax macro without having to lift off repeatedly or constantly rebuild depots, you will eventually overtake him and he'll be left in a hopeless position where he can't even touch you and is far behind in development.
Start building a bunker the instant you see those lings, not between CC and minerals but somewhere off to the side, so that it can do three things: provide cover for 1 barracks so you don't have to lift it, provide cover for atleast half of your mineral patches, and provide cover for additional depots you build in case you lose one that was built along the outskirts of your base. If you can get a second barracks under the cover of that bunker, you're in great shape and his attack will be neutralized within like 90 seconds. Once you have superior numbers, unload your bunker(s) and chase his lings around until they're out of your base. From there, winning the game is obviously just a matter of time.
Hatch in your main won't be a problem because you'll be mobilized with superior numbers before he can build one, so don't tech to siege tanks that's ridiculous. Once you have superior numbers you proceed as usual with academy and double, eventually triple rax. There won't be anything Zerg can do to stop that attack short of choking his base with Sunkens, in which case his economy is even worse off than it was before, and teching to tanks before his tech gets anywhere won't be a problem.
The most important thing to remember is that in order for a barracks to be under the cover of a bunker without range upgrade for marines, it needs to be pressed right up against the bunker. All you need is constant 1 rax production, achieve that and you're golden. You'll be lifting off your barracks as soon as the bunker finishes.
And the differences between 10 and 11 rax is minor, your marine won't be coming more than a moment or two earlier, and imo 4pool is too rare to be pulling our TvZ build even slightly away from optimal just to counter it. 10 rax in close positions or on maps like Requiem maybe, but 11 rax is optimal otherwise.
|
On January 25 2006 09:19 Chris307 wrote: Well people did give him really awful advice, people who shouldn't be giving advice in the Strategy forum at all honestly.
8 or 9 rax before depot? People who think that's a useful counter to 4pool should not be posting anything but questions in the Strategy forum. It sounds vulgar, but that is retarded.
His problem wasn't really his micro, either. It wasn't perfect but it was sufficient enough to beat 4pool.
As soon as you see 6 lings on the map at 4pool speed, you should no longer care about sticking to solid every-game conventions. You don't care about anything but stopping his 4pool, because if you can stop it, you've won the game, no matter how awkwardly positioned your structures are or how many bunkers you spent 100 minerals on.
As long as you can sustain 1 rax macro without having to lift off repeatedly or constantly rebuild depots, you will eventually overtake him and he'll be left in a hopeless position where he can't even touch you and is far behind in development.
Start building a bunker the instant you see those lings, not between CC and minerals but somewhere off to the side, so that it can do three things: provide cover for 1 barracks so you don't have to lift it, provide cover for atleast half of your mineral patches, and provide cover for additional depots you build in case you lose one that was built along the outskirts of your base. If you can get a second barracks under the cover of that bunker, you're in great shape and his attack will be neutralized within like 90 seconds. Once you have superior numbers, unload your bunker(s) and chase his lings around until they're out of your base. From there, winning the game is obviously just a matter of time.
Hatch in your main won't be a problem because you'll be mobilized with superior numbers before he can build one, so don't tech to siege tanks that's ridiculous. Once you have superior numbers you proceed as usual with academy and double, eventually triple rax. There won't be anything Zerg can do to stop that attack short of choking his base with Sunkens, in which case his economy is even worse off than it was before, and teching to tanks before his tech gets anywhere won't be a problem.
The most important thing to remember is that in order for a barracks to be under the cover of a bunker without range upgrade for marines, it needs to be pressed right up against the bunker. All you need is constant 1 rax production, achieve that and you're golden. You'll be lifting off your barracks as soon as the bunker finishes.
And the differences between 10 and 11 rax is minor, your marine won't be coming more than a moment or two earlier, and imo 4pool is too rare to be pulling our TvZ build even slightly away from optimal just to counter it. 10 rax in close positions or on maps like Requiem maybe, but 11 rax is optimal otherwise.
Oh his micro was sufficient enough to beat a four pool. But if it had been better, his strategy mistakes wouldn't have mattered, and in fact, wouldn't have even occured.
Certainly with different builds later in the game he could've won. But if he hadn't wasted so many scv's early on the situation would've been completely different. For instance, if someone sends all his miners to one patch, then all to another, that's the first thing you've got to address. Damage control is certainly important (knowing what to do when you've been manner pyloned), and something everyone should know. But at the same time you should also know when and how to block it, or when to let it warp in.
Now let me try to add something nobody has really stressed. When microing scv's and marines in open areas you want to keep them all moving towards your enemy. One way to do this is to hotkey. Another is to just have quick hands. But you want to have the enemy be the center of gravity and all your guys at first moving towards it, and then have the ones that overshot move back.
I think at one point you could've saved your barracks and got out a 2nd rine if you had played it well enough.
|
|
|
|