On October 21 2011 10:31 nitdkim wrote: You attack one carrier, then use hold position on goliaths and they will attack the carrier that you've just ordered them to attack. 1a, right click towards carriers, h, right click, h, repeat. That's so that you can easily focus a single carrier down that's in a stacked group of carriers.
This is verified to be true if you press hold (not attack move).
Notice how after the goliaths move, they don't target the closest muta (which is clearly flying right over them) in this video because it's hold micro. They continue attacking the previous target.
On October 20 2011 14:31 playa wrote: Disclaimer: I'm not a "micro guy." ... I mainly rely on goliaths to kill observers, using shit attack on the observers; a few cloaked wraiths make life a lot, lot easier. The wraiths kill a few carriers, the carriers are forced to run... letting your gollies get pot shots. Anytime you rely solely on goliaths, I hope you're a fan of bad AI.
Sorry for doing this but I couldn't resist.
:O Yeah, not that.... shift attack*! I really do think a wraith, gollie combo is the way to go. No toss player starts out with a lot of observers tagging along with their carriers. Just 3 or so wraiths can really change the complexion of the game. Even if the toss player does end up with an adequate amount of observers, that's 75 gas per observer. That just means they have less High Templars and gas for carriers. In effect, you eliminate carriers from the field no matter what. Although, it never hurts to have a vessel to emp the carriers for extra measures, too.
Note: once they do have a lot of observers, simply focus on pure gollies with vessels for anti air. But, anytime you can scan and pick off an observer, that's great. As, that just gives you the option of switching back to making a few wraiths if he doesn't keep up with a sufficient number.
Carriers have 150 shield (0 armor) and 300 or so hp (4 armor) so it is doubtful if the emp has any effect. It cuts less than third, possibly 1/4 health which does quickly regenerate, and still vessel is 225 gas (4-5 goliaths). And I would really love to see lockdowns in tvp .
On October 21 2011 10:31 nitdkim wrote: You attack one carrier, then use hold position on goliaths and they will attack the carrier that you've just ordered them to attack. 1a, right click towards carriers, h, right click, h, repeat. That's so that you can easily focus a single carrier down that's in a stacked group of carriers.
This is verified to be true if you press hold (not attack move).
Notice how after the goliaths move, they don't target the closest muta (which is clearly flying right over them) in this video because it's hold micro. They continue attacking the previous target.
i think Boxer right click the target right after he hold position, he just hold until it die and then repeat that actions to new target. i've tested this and realized that if you click on the target fast enough after h, you can choose that target( but im not boxer, so it was really hard, you can miss it and the gol do a stupid move).
On October 21 2011 17:15 gu-val wrote: Carriers have 150 shield (0 armor) and 300 or so hp (4 armor) so it is doubtful if the emp has any effect. It cuts less than third, possibly 1/4 health which does quickly regenerate, and still vessel is 225 gas (4-5 goliaths). And I would really love to see lockdowns in tvp .
I'm probably not cutting gollies to get a vessel, but if you can manage to have both, it doesn't hurt. 1) if they are going carriers, they are often times looking to storm your goliaths, so it's not always emp carriers or nothing. Plus, I'm always trying to snipe observers when I can, which can basically pay for my vessel on the gas side of things. D matrix isn't bad either, especially when you're short on tanks due to pumping out gollies.
One of the biggest things about defeating carriers isn't so much the actual killing of them; more so, it is taking advantage of their lack of mobility by having spread out expansions. If you can make them play a back and forth game, it's hard for them to really make progress.
Thanks for the post though and breaking down how effective you think emp is on carriers. Not so much thinking, but the math, which is factual. I usually just leave it as "emp'd units are easier to kill than otherwise." It's always great to become more informed and think about it in real terms. Thanks.
On October 21 2011 08:00 Golondrin wrote: I maybe wrong but if i recall correctly Goliaths are quite a wierd units regarding their targeting systems. Most ranged units will shot to the most closest target and switch to the next one if that target dies or gets out of their range. While idle, Goliaths don't switch targets if the unit is not dead, so they will follow it ignoring the rest. But on hold position they act as any other unit, so yeah, basically what people said, if you don't want goliaths being dumb make sure they're constantly issued on hold position after every movement. With upgrades and enough numbers they'll steadily vaporize interceptors. If carriers get exposed don't hesitate on focus fire.
He is right about the targeting system (but the hold position does not work). When using goliaths to attack interceptors, hot key them on 1 2 and 3, and keep spamming 1a2a3a on nearby ground. That way the goliaths won't just follow some random interceptor that is out of range. That is what Flash does if you look really carefully at his action history in BWchart when facing carriers. That is why he owns interceptors and we complain carriers are OP.
Another thing you can learn from Flash is: because his golis are hotkeyed, he usually make them all move in unison, then 1a2a3a together. That way, he's guaranteed to have them target some of the same interceptors and actually kill them as opposed to damaging them and have them go back to heal.
Wow, I actually never knew about that. Thanks for sharing.
In most iccup maps me vs a carrier toss is really simple because carriers cost a ton of money and if u do proper Scouting and deny toss a third, then he will not be able to reinforce his carier army while j can still reinforce yours. Ps i would add a few tanks and vultures because who knows they might do a jangbi and hit u with a dragoon/carrier 2-pronged attack
EPT
