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Maps with Reverse Race Imba?

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
SerpentFlame
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
418 Posts
April 12 2024 21:03 GMT
#1
What are some maps with strong
P > Z > T > P?

What features would such a map have?

I was wondering why the "standard race imba" (T>Z>P>T) persists when maps are a balancing factors. It's easy to find Maps with the "normal" imba (T>Z>P>T) and maps with 2 MUs reverse-imba (Sparkle is P > Z > T = P), but I haven't seen one with all the MUs reverse-imba.

(I looked at https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/514719-all-time-broodwar-most-balanced-maps-ranked and spot checked some bottom ranked maps, but I couldn't find one with the feature I'm looking for).
I Wannabe[WHITE], the very BeSt[HyO], like Yo Hwan EVER Oz.......
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands1267 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-04-12 22:27:13
April 12 2024 22:23 GMT
#2
A post with winrates taken from ELOBAORD posted by TMNT in another thread:
It shows on which maps the triangle of races does not apply.
On April 10 2024 15:16 TMNT wrote:
Polypoid 53%
Vermeer 52.7%
Retro 52.9%
Eclipse 52.7%
Fighting Spirit 53.8%
Allegro 59.1%
(66k games on these first 6 maps)
Ascension 52.2%
Nemesis 52.1%
La Campanella 54.7%
Dark Origin 59.8%
Largo 63.4%
Heartbreak Ridge 52.1%
Goodnight 66.5%
Odyssey 51.9%
Metaverse 56.7%
76 58.3%
Neo Arkanoid 57.9%

Neo Sylphid 50%
Apocalypse 49.9%
Neo Dark Origin 50.9%
(20k games on these 3 maps)

Revolver 43.9% (the most played maps that can be considered Protoss favored in PvZ - 2700 games)
Butter 48.8%
Invader 48.9%
Tempest 48.6%
Radeon 48.3%
Citadel 47.3%
Blitz Y 36.3%
Monopoly 47%
Troy 41.2%


JDON MY SOUL!
LUCKY_NOOB
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
Bulgaria1550 Posts
April 13 2024 08:40 GMT
#3
On April 13 2024 06:03 SerpentFlame wrote:
What are some maps with strong
P > Z > T > P?

(Sparkle is P > Z > T = P), but I haven't seen one with all the MUs reverse-imba.



I just want to say Sparkle thing is wrong. Could be either P > Z > T > P or P = T > Z. If P > Z and Z > T then T cant be = to P. Otherwise it says T is simultaneously equal and less than Z which is nonsense.
ko-fi.com/luckynoob
SerpentFlame
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
418 Posts
April 14 2024 02:32 GMT
#4
On April 13 2024 17:40 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2024 06:03 SerpentFlame wrote:
What are some maps with strong
P > Z > T > P?

(Sparkle is P > Z > T = P), but I haven't seen one with all the MUs reverse-imba.



I just want to say Sparkle thing is wrong. Could be either P > Z > T > P or P = T > Z. If P > Z and Z > T then T cant be = to P. Otherwise it says T is simultaneously equal and less than Z which is nonsense.

To clarify, what i mean is:
PvZ is P favored.
ZvT is Z favored.
TvP is neutral for both races.


There's no contradiction in this, and (as far as I remember) that's what the statistics show.

I'm not saying Terran and Protoss are equally strong on the map, just that TvP is balanced. Apologies if my language was unclear
I Wannabe[WHITE], the very BeSt[HyO], like Yo Hwan EVER Oz.......
SerpentFlame
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
418 Posts
April 14 2024 02:35 GMT
#5
On April 13 2024 07:23 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
A post with winrates taken from ELOBAORD posted by TMNT in another thread:
It shows on which maps the triangle of races does not apply.
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2024 15:16 TMNT wrote:
Polypoid 53%
Vermeer 52.7%
Retro 52.9%
Eclipse 52.7%
Fighting Spirit 53.8%
Allegro 59.1%
(66k games on these first 6 maps)
Ascension 52.2%
Nemesis 52.1%
La Campanella 54.7%
Dark Origin 59.8%
Largo 63.4%
Heartbreak Ridge 52.1%
Goodnight 66.5%
Odyssey 51.9%
Metaverse 56.7%
76 58.3%
Neo Arkanoid 57.9%

Neo Sylphid 50%
Apocalypse 49.9%
Neo Dark Origin 50.9%
(20k games on these 3 maps)

Revolver 43.9% (the most played maps that can be considered Protoss favored in PvZ - 2700 games)
Butter 48.8%
Invader 48.9%
Tempest 48.6%
Radeon 48.3%
Citadel 47.3%
Blitz Y 36.3%
Monopoly 47%
Troy 41.2%



Assuming this is ZvP winrate where > 50% is zerg favored (I think this is from the JD thread), this shows me maps where P > Z, but of these I think only Radeon has T > P and Z > T (and only barely). Thanks for the data!
I Wannabe[WHITE], the very BeSt[HyO], like Yo Hwan EVER Oz.......
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