• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:43
CEST 09:43
KST 16:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!15Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)84Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!18
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) CoolPillow: (We Tried It 365) My Honest Review! Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
Animated Gateway BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion HORROR STARCRAFT MOVIE How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Role of Gaming on Mental Hea…
TrAiDoS
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8752 users

ASL Statistics

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 07:22:38
June 11 2021 07:22 GMT
#1
Some stats I saw floating around on discord.

[image loading]
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2425 Posts
June 11 2021 08:47 GMT
#2
Thanks! Really cool to have all this info grouped nicely together like this. Glad to see some pretty nice balance between races on the whole, and I like how the T's that stand out are the ones I like
The original Bogus fan.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
June 11 2021 10:42 GMT
#3
In before the "Terran is weak without Flash" brigade
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 11:58:35
June 11 2021 11:57 GMT
#4
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19369 Posts
June 11 2021 12:53 GMT
#5
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1262 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:08:15
June 11 2021 13:07 GMT
#6
Those stats are the definition of balanced.

I don't think this will hold up in the future though. (Zerg will continue to dominate haaard and mount to some very skewed stats).
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:17:57
June 11 2021 13:16 GMT
#7
On June 11 2021 21:53 BisuDagger wrote:
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver


That's also an interesting part of the phenomenon: Not only does Terran do very well (over 50%) in sponsored showmatches, and not that well (sub 50% without one key player) in ASL matches in general, but when it comes to placing top 2 in ASL, Terran does just fine. Better than their overall ASL winrate suggests.

Why?

I am not complaining, I am curious
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1603 Posts
June 11 2021 13:40 GMT
#8
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
A.Alm
Profile Joined September 2012
Sweden557 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 14:01:46
June 11 2021 14:01 GMT
#9
On June 11 2021 20:57 vOdToasT wrote:
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?


Sponsored games are played on more balanced and tested maps, while ASL brings in new maps that often are imbalanced, sometimes on purpose to f.e nerf Flash (season 5, after Flash had won the 3 previous ASL's). If a race becomes imbalanced, it will be fixed with maps as it always has been.
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1262 Posts
June 11 2021 14:08 GMT
#10
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...


Cmon what? One of the best maps that ASL has ever put out. If anything it was Zerg that had problems on that map.

sTYleZerG-eX
Profile Joined January 2010
Mexico473 Posts
June 15 2021 05:46 GMT
#11
Wow… Flash has such a high winrate even with Random…??!! That’s outrageous
10%
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
June 15 2021 06:23 GMT
#12
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...

yea i was gonna post that too
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
kidcrash
Profile Joined September 2009
United States623 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-15 23:56:28
June 15 2021 23:37 GMT
#13
Im a bit sad that the flash as random experiment ended early. I think it could have answered a lot of questions regarding if Flash is OP or if Flash + Terran = OP. In my humble opinon, I can't think of any scenario where flash dominates off race as hard as he does when maining terran. The problem with the data above is the sample size for R is too small to come to any definitive conclusion. I think if Flash played random over the course of his entire ASL career his win rate would probably level out to the low 60%, high 50% range. This is important because it debunks the Terran win rate flash-asterisks narrative people try to use to undermine the overall race balance statistics. Thats the equivalent of trying to discredit an NBA wide statistic because Michael Jordan or Lebron James is included within those stats.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 140
FoxeR 107
ProTech69
StarCraft: Brood War
Tasteless 279
Leta 156
Zeus 143
BeSt 136
Mong 123
PianO 52
ZergMaN 42
ToSsGirL 41
Bale 24
Noble 17
[ Show more ]
sorry 13
NotJumperer 4
Dota 2
febbydoto55
League of Legends
JimRising 635
Other Games
summit1g5234
ceh9753
WinterStarcraft718
Happy333
Sick151
Trikslyr23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1212
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH224
• mYiSmile113
• Adnapsc2 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2268
League of Legends
• Rush1333
• Stunt563
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
2h 18m
Kung Fu Cup
3h 18m
OSC
16h 18m
CrankTV Team League
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Serral vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs ByuN
Rogue vs Lambo
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-21
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.