• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:07
CET 12:07
KST 20:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship2[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage1Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting RSL S3 Round of 16 [TLCH] Mission 7: Last Stand Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4 WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RSL S3 ro16
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Dating: How's your luck? Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1661 users

ASL Statistics

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 07:22:38
June 11 2021 07:22 GMT
#1
Some stats I saw floating around on discord.

[image loading]
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2394 Posts
June 11 2021 08:47 GMT
#2
Thanks! Really cool to have all this info grouped nicely together like this. Glad to see some pretty nice balance between races on the whole, and I like how the T's that stand out are the ones I like
The original Bogus fan.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
June 11 2021 10:42 GMT
#3
In before the "Terran is weak without Flash" brigade
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 11:58:35
June 11 2021 11:57 GMT
#4
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19295 Posts
June 11 2021 12:53 GMT
#5
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1238 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:08:15
June 11 2021 13:07 GMT
#6
Those stats are the definition of balanced.

I don't think this will hold up in the future though. (Zerg will continue to dominate haaard and mount to some very skewed stats).
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:17:57
June 11 2021 13:16 GMT
#7
On June 11 2021 21:53 BisuDagger wrote:
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver


That's also an interesting part of the phenomenon: Not only does Terran do very well (over 50%) in sponsored showmatches, and not that well (sub 50% without one key player) in ASL matches in general, but when it comes to placing top 2 in ASL, Terran does just fine. Better than their overall ASL winrate suggests.

Why?

I am not complaining, I am curious
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1600 Posts
June 11 2021 13:40 GMT
#8
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
A.Alm
Profile Joined September 2012
Sweden531 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 14:01:46
June 11 2021 14:01 GMT
#9
On June 11 2021 20:57 vOdToasT wrote:
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?


Sponsored games are played on more balanced and tested maps, while ASL brings in new maps that often are imbalanced, sometimes on purpose to f.e nerf Flash (season 5, after Flash had won the 3 previous ASL's). If a race becomes imbalanced, it will be fixed with maps as it always has been.
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1238 Posts
June 11 2021 14:08 GMT
#10
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...


Cmon what? One of the best maps that ASL has ever put out. If anything it was Zerg that had problems on that map.

sTYleZerG-eX
Profile Joined January 2010
Mexico473 Posts
June 15 2021 05:46 GMT
#11
Wow… Flash has such a high winrate even with Random…??!! That’s outrageous
10%
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
June 15 2021 06:23 GMT
#12
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...

yea i was gonna post that too
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
kidcrash
Profile Joined September 2009
United States623 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-15 23:56:28
June 15 2021 23:37 GMT
#13
Im a bit sad that the flash as random experiment ended early. I think it could have answered a lot of questions regarding if Flash is OP or if Flash + Terran = OP. In my humble opinon, I can't think of any scenario where flash dominates off race as hard as he does when maining terran. The problem with the data above is the sample size for R is too small to come to any definitive conclusion. I think if Flash played random over the course of his entire ASL career his win rate would probably level out to the low 60%, high 50% range. This is important because it debunks the Terran win rate flash-asterisks narrative people try to use to undermine the overall race balance statistics. Thats the equivalent of trying to discredit an NBA wide statistic because Michael Jordan or Lebron James is included within those stats.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D4
CranKy Ducklings166
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8570
Rain 7922
Bisu 1568
Pusan 385
Stork 338
Last 207
Leta 143
Barracks 107
ToSsGirL 103
ZerO 84
[ Show more ]
Aegong 59
Sharp 44
zelot 36
JulyZerg 28
Liquid`Ret 22
Yoon 12
Free 9
Icarus 8
Dota 2
XcaliburYe737
Counter-Strike
x6flipin149
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King76
Other Games
summit1g12591
singsing1079
ceh9449
crisheroes225
XaKoH 133
Pyrionflax127
Fuzer 107
SortOf80
B2W.Neo66
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick655
Counter-Strike
PGL195
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 49
• LUISG 34
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2037
• Stunt831
• HappyZerGling91
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Korean Royale
54m
LAN Event
3h 54m
OSC
11h 54m
The PondCast
22h 54m
LAN Event
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
OSC
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
LAN Event
3 days
IPSL
3 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
LAN Event
4 days
IPSL
4 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.