• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:43
CET 07:43
KST 15:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview11Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 KSL Week 85 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open!
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Let's Get Creative–Video Gam…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1686 users

ASL Statistics

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 07:22:38
June 11 2021 07:22 GMT
#1
Some stats I saw floating around on discord.

[image loading]
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2396 Posts
June 11 2021 08:47 GMT
#2
Thanks! Really cool to have all this info grouped nicely together like this. Glad to see some pretty nice balance between races on the whole, and I like how the T's that stand out are the ones I like
The original Bogus fan.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
June 11 2021 10:42 GMT
#3
In before the "Terran is weak without Flash" brigade
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 11:58:35
June 11 2021 11:57 GMT
#4
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19302 Posts
June 11 2021 12:53 GMT
#5
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1243 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:08:15
June 11 2021 13:07 GMT
#6
Those stats are the definition of balanced.

I don't think this will hold up in the future though. (Zerg will continue to dominate haaard and mount to some very skewed stats).
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:17:57
June 11 2021 13:16 GMT
#7
On June 11 2021 21:53 BisuDagger wrote:
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver


That's also an interesting part of the phenomenon: Not only does Terran do very well (over 50%) in sponsored showmatches, and not that well (sub 50% without one key player) in ASL matches in general, but when it comes to placing top 2 in ASL, Terran does just fine. Better than their overall ASL winrate suggests.

Why?

I am not complaining, I am curious
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
June 11 2021 13:40 GMT
#8
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
A.Alm
Profile Joined September 2012
Sweden532 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 14:01:46
June 11 2021 14:01 GMT
#9
On June 11 2021 20:57 vOdToasT wrote:
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?


Sponsored games are played on more balanced and tested maps, while ASL brings in new maps that often are imbalanced, sometimes on purpose to f.e nerf Flash (season 5, after Flash had won the 3 previous ASL's). If a race becomes imbalanced, it will be fixed with maps as it always has been.
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1243 Posts
June 11 2021 14:08 GMT
#10
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...


Cmon what? One of the best maps that ASL has ever put out. If anything it was Zerg that had problems on that map.

sTYleZerG-eX
Profile Joined January 2010
Mexico473 Posts
June 15 2021 05:46 GMT
#11
Wow… Flash has such a high winrate even with Random…??!! That’s outrageous
10%
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
June 15 2021 06:23 GMT
#12
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...

yea i was gonna post that too
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
kidcrash
Profile Joined September 2009
United States623 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-15 23:56:28
June 15 2021 23:37 GMT
#13
Im a bit sad that the flash as random experiment ended early. I think it could have answered a lot of questions regarding if Flash is OP or if Flash + Terran = OP. In my humble opinon, I can't think of any scenario where flash dominates off race as hard as he does when maining terran. The problem with the data above is the sample size for R is too small to come to any definitive conclusion. I think if Flash played random over the course of his entire ASL career his win rate would probably level out to the low 60%, high 50% range. This is important because it debunks the Terran win rate flash-asterisks narrative people try to use to undermine the overall race balance statistics. Thats the equivalent of trying to discredit an NBA wide statistic because Michael Jordan or Lebron James is included within those stats.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Korean StarCraft League #85
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
FoxeR 74
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 488
firebathero 411
EffOrt 244
Larva 80
IntoTheRainbow 72
Bale 36
Noble 23
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm192
League of Legends
JimRising 903
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv544
Other Games
summit1g8114
WinterStarcraft496
febbydoto28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick814
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH165
• Response 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1294
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
5h 18m
ShoWTimE vs sOs
Serral vs Reynor
Zoun vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Lambo
OSC
6h 18m
Replay Cast
17h 18m
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-31
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.