• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:07
CEST 08:07
KST 15:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers14Maestros of the Game 2 announced82026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: ASL S21, Ro.16 Group C BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator Data needed
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1392 users

ASL Statistics

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 07:22:38
June 11 2021 07:22 GMT
#1
Some stats I saw floating around on discord.

[image loading]
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2398 Posts
June 11 2021 08:47 GMT
#2
Thanks! Really cool to have all this info grouped nicely together like this. Glad to see some pretty nice balance between races on the whole, and I like how the T's that stand out are the ones I like
The original Bogus fan.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
June 11 2021 10:42 GMT
#3
In before the "Terran is weak without Flash" brigade
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 11:58:35
June 11 2021 11:57 GMT
#4
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19338 Posts
June 11 2021 12:53 GMT
#5
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1258 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:08:15
June 11 2021 13:07 GMT
#6
Those stats are the definition of balanced.

I don't think this will hold up in the future though. (Zerg will continue to dominate haaard and mount to some very skewed stats).
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:17:57
June 11 2021 13:16 GMT
#7
On June 11 2021 21:53 BisuDagger wrote:
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver


That's also an interesting part of the phenomenon: Not only does Terran do very well (over 50%) in sponsored showmatches, and not that well (sub 50% without one key player) in ASL matches in general, but when it comes to placing top 2 in ASL, Terran does just fine. Better than their overall ASL winrate suggests.

Why?

I am not complaining, I am curious
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1601 Posts
June 11 2021 13:40 GMT
#8
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
A.Alm
Profile Joined September 2012
Sweden535 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 14:01:46
June 11 2021 14:01 GMT
#9
On June 11 2021 20:57 vOdToasT wrote:
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?


Sponsored games are played on more balanced and tested maps, while ASL brings in new maps that often are imbalanced, sometimes on purpose to f.e nerf Flash (season 5, after Flash had won the 3 previous ASL's). If a race becomes imbalanced, it will be fixed with maps as it always has been.
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1258 Posts
June 11 2021 14:08 GMT
#10
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...


Cmon what? One of the best maps that ASL has ever put out. If anything it was Zerg that had problems on that map.

sTYleZerG-eX
Profile Joined January 2010
Mexico473 Posts
June 15 2021 05:46 GMT
#11
Wow… Flash has such a high winrate even with Random…??!! That’s outrageous
10%
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
June 15 2021 06:23 GMT
#12
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...

yea i was gonna post that too
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
kidcrash
Profile Joined September 2009
United States623 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-15 23:56:28
June 15 2021 23:37 GMT
#13
Im a bit sad that the flash as random experiment ended early. I think it could have answered a lot of questions regarding if Flash is OP or if Flash + Terran = OP. In my humble opinon, I can't think of any scenario where flash dominates off race as hard as he does when maining terran. The problem with the data above is the sample size for R is too small to come to any definitive conclusion. I think if Flash played random over the course of his entire ASL career his win rate would probably level out to the low 60%, high 50% range. This is important because it debunks the Terran win rate flash-asterisks narrative people try to use to undermine the overall race balance statistics. Thats the equivalent of trying to discredit an NBA wide statistic because Michael Jordan or Lebron James is included within those stats.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 196
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6315
Pusan 135
ProTech133
ToSsGirL 84
Backho 74
Aegong 64
yabsab 56
soO 35
910 21
JulyZerg 18
[ Show more ]
Icarus 12
SilentControl 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm133
League of Legends
JimRising 710
Counter-Strike
summit1g8638
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King265
Other Games
C9.Mang0549
WinterStarcraft389
Trikslyr20
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick794
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 36
• Berry_CruncH15
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 43
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1226
• Lourlo946
• Stunt431
Other Games
• Scarra1670
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 54m
KCM Race Survival
3h 54m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4h 54m
Gerald vs herO
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs Solar
Rogue vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs TBD
OSC
8h 54m
CranKy Ducklings
17h 54m
Escore
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
Universe Titan Cup
2 days
Rogue vs Percival
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Leta vs YSC
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-22
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.