• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:58
CEST 21:58
KST 04:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon111
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Recent Patches and the Future Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing Where can I find Flash replays that work? Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7977 users

ASL Statistics

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 07:22:38
June 11 2021 07:22 GMT
#1
Some stats I saw floating around on discord.

[image loading]
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2451 Posts
June 11 2021 08:47 GMT
#2
Thanks! Really cool to have all this info grouped nicely together like this. Glad to see some pretty nice balance between races on the whole, and I like how the T's that stand out are the ones I like
The original Bogus fan.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
June 11 2021 10:42 GMT
#3
In before the "Terran is weak without Flash" brigade
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 11:58:35
June 11 2021 11:57 GMT
#4
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19387 Posts
June 11 2021 12:53 GMT
#5
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1267 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:08:15
June 11 2021 13:07 GMT
#6
Those stats are the definition of balanced.

I don't think this will hold up in the future though. (Zerg will continue to dominate haaard and mount to some very skewed stats).
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 13:17:57
June 11 2021 13:16 GMT
#7
On June 11 2021 21:53 BisuDagger wrote:
Even with a Terrible winrate for Terran, they've won quite a bit in the ASL era. You can't really complain about Terran when they still manage to win without Flash around. I think two years from now we could have a very different discussion if Zergs continue to dominate though, but I think we will just see someone like Light start to dominate again.

Medal Recap:

Flash ASL:
4 golds, 1 silver
Rest of T in ASL:
2 golds, 3 silvers

Full Medal stats
7. Last: ASL 7 gold, ASL6 bronze, KSL1 Gold, misc. +1 gold and 5 other silvers
12. Sharp: KSL2 silver, ASL1 silver
21. Light: ASL9 silver, KSL4 gold, +2 golds and 1 silver
22. Rush: meh
23. sSak: meh post sonic era
24. Mind: 1 gold, won HungryApp
Sea : 1 silver


That's also an interesting part of the phenomenon: Not only does Terran do very well (over 50%) in sponsored showmatches, and not that well (sub 50% without one key player) in ASL matches in general, but when it comes to placing top 2 in ASL, Terran does just fine. Better than their overall ASL winrate suggests.

Why?

I am not complaining, I am curious
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
asel
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Germany1605 Posts
June 11 2021 13:40 GMT
#8
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...
eSTRO for life | #3 Sea.Really fan! | GGoliath! | aeterna societas honoris | cbta~ | Flash makes Terran look like Toss | aka RevaL
A.Alm
Profile Joined September 2012
Sweden559 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-11 14:01:46
June 11 2021 14:01 GMT
#9
On June 11 2021 20:57 vOdToasT wrote:
Why is the Terran ASL winrate so much worse (especially if you remove Flash) than the sponsored one and done showmatch winrate? Is Terran stronger when the enemy can't prepare? Is Terran the most susceptible to fine tuned, well aged cheese?


Sponsored games are played on more balanced and tested maps, while ASL brings in new maps that often are imbalanced, sometimes on purpose to f.e nerf Flash (season 5, after Flash had won the 3 previous ASL's). If a race becomes imbalanced, it will be fixed with maps as it always has been.
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1267 Posts
June 11 2021 14:08 GMT
#10
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...


Cmon what? One of the best maps that ASL has ever put out. If anything it was Zerg that had problems on that map.

sTYleZerG-eX
Profile Joined January 2010
Mexico473 Posts
June 15 2021 05:46 GMT
#11
Wow… Flash has such a high winrate even with Random…??!! That’s outrageous
10%
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
June 15 2021 06:23 GMT
#12
On June 11 2021 22:40 asel wrote:
I think lot's of Terrans suffered from the anti-Flash maps. I mean Third World? Come on...

yea i was gonna post that too
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
kidcrash
Profile Joined September 2009
United States624 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-06-15 23:56:28
June 15 2021 23:37 GMT
#13
Im a bit sad that the flash as random experiment ended early. I think it could have answered a lot of questions regarding if Flash is OP or if Flash + Terran = OP. In my humble opinon, I can't think of any scenario where flash dominates off race as hard as he does when maining terran. The problem with the data above is the sample size for R is too small to come to any definitive conclusion. I think if Flash played random over the course of his entire ASL career his win rate would probably level out to the low 60%, high 50% range. This is important because it debunks the Terran win rate flash-asterisks narrative people try to use to undermine the overall race balance statistics. Thats the equivalent of trying to discredit an NBA wide statistic because Michael Jordan or Lebron James is included within those stats.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Stellar Fest
13:00
Stellar Fest 2 The Moon: Qualifier Day 1
ComeBackTV 862
SteadfastSC562
EnkiAlexander 66
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 562
ZombieGrub97
JuggernautJason63
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24509
Soulkey 272
Mini 145
White-Ra 117
ToSsGirL 23
NotJumperer 21
Trap 21
Shine 19
League of Legends
Doublelift392
Counter-Strike
fl0m1377
shoxiejesuss674
C9.Mang0166
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King94
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor2508
Liquid`Hasu2083
Other Games
Grubby2782
ArmadaUGS976
B2W.Neo528
Pyrionflax178
shahzam85
UpATreeSC78
Chillindude61
Dewaltoss59
Trikslyr49
Railgan20
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV187
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream88
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 9
• intothetv
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki30
• blackmanpl 28
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV294
League of Legends
• TFBlade1090
• Noizen277
Other Games
• imaqtpie1139
• Scarra771
• Shiphtur288
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
14h 2m
OSC
17h 2m
Stellar Fest
17h 2m
OSC
1d 4h
Stellar Fest
1d 17h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Online Event
2 days
FEL
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
INu's Battles
3 days
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
INu's Battles
5 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.