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Flash says he will choose random - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
411 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 19 20 21 Next All
Garrl
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Scotland1972 Posts
April 19 2020 15:38 GMT
#21
On April 20 2020 00:37 True_Spike wrote:
Oh, yes! Please, play random. Actual random, don't race pick.


you aren't allowed to racepick in tournaments, so it will be actual random.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34490 Posts
April 19 2020 15:38 GMT
#22
Testie being an influence to Flash
Moderator
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8504 Posts
April 19 2020 15:54 GMT
#23
On April 20 2020 00:17 Ikirouta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2020 00:01 castleeMg wrote:
is this allowed? i thought it was a rule that you couldnt play as random in certain high level tournaments? im also curious to how other pros view this? playing vs random is a lot more of a dice roll with opening builds


iirc that rule was removed a long time ago, we've seen random players in korean tourneys pop up once in a while, most recently BishOp played random in castermuses league.


iirc random was never banned. Race picking for certain match ups was. At least for kespa.
Ikirouta
Profile Blog Joined November 2017
Finland727 Posts
April 19 2020 16:16 GMT
#24
On April 20 2020 00:54 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2020 00:17 Ikirouta wrote:
On April 20 2020 00:01 castleeMg wrote:
is this allowed? i thought it was a rule that you couldnt play as random in certain high level tournaments? im also curious to how other pros view this? playing vs random is a lot more of a dice roll with opening builds


iirc that rule was removed a long time ago, we've seen random players in korean tourneys pop up once in a while, most recently BishOp played random in castermuses league.


iirc random was never banned. Race picking for certain match ups was. At least for kespa.


I believe random was banned for a while during old proleague format. Iirc it was something like ZZ in 2v2 was banned -> people played ZR to have a chance to get ZZ, but after that random was banned from 2v2 and 1v1 for a bit. I could be wrong tho.
Pusan fan #1, bad sair/reaver enthuisiast. twitch.tv/ikirouta
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
April 19 2020 16:27 GMT
#25
On April 20 2020 00:38 Garrl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2020 00:37 True_Spike wrote:
Oh, yes! Please, play random. Actual random, don't race pick.


you aren't allowed to racepick in tournaments, so it will be actual random.

Are you not? Savior notably picked Terran against GoRush. I thought you were allowed to play only 1 race in the courage tournaments, but it was free game in prep format.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4126 Posts
April 19 2020 16:39 GMT
#26
On April 19 2020 23:40 arbiter_md wrote:
I don't think it's fair towards other players to choose random, unless random means him saying his race in the chat at the beginning of the game. So, the other player could plan how to play before scouting him.


I REALLY don't get why people say it's not fair. You handicap yourself but needing to familiarize ALL 9 matchups instead of just 3 which outweighs the slight advantage of the opponent not knowing your race for the start of the game.
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9016 Posts
April 19 2020 16:39 GMT
#27
It's about damn time. This will hopefully make things more interesting to watch.
ichthys
Profile Joined September 2019
9 Posts
April 19 2020 16:43 GMT
#28
On April 19 2020 22:43 razorsuKe wrote:
FINALLY he's going to legitimize random as a selectable race now :D


You are Canadian! Surely you know all about Guillaume Patry's (very brief) reign of domination as a random player...
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-19 16:57:26
April 19 2020 16:48 GMT
#29
On April 20 2020 01:39 Dante08 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2020 23:40 arbiter_md wrote:
I don't think it's fair towards other players to choose random, unless random means him saying his race in the chat at the beginning of the game. So, the other player could plan how to play before scouting him.


I REALLY don't get why people say it's not fair. You handicap yourself but needing to familiarize ALL 9 matchups instead of just 3 which outweighs the slight advantage of the opponent not knowing your race for the start of the game.

This is true, generally speaking. That is, if we talk about normal mortals who struggle to play even one race well.

But in the case of s.o. like Flash, with all the experience they have with off-racing, the "slight advantage" of playing random is actually HUGE. Flash knows all the vT matchups well anyway, and played tons of ZvP/PvZ up until this point. As his off-race sessions on ladder prove, it's not even that big of a handicap to him.

A player of his caliber playing random forces the opponent to either roll the dice or to go down a narrow path of build-order options which Flash can anticipate. It forces them to send out scouts much earlier than usual.

I think this is not to be underestimated on the highest level. Even on lower ranks it can be hard to play vs someone who goes off-race or random if they have a lot of experience with that, even more so if they get their favorite matchups.

edit: I don't say they should forbid it btw. If anything then this will spice things up.
FyRe_DragOn
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada2056 Posts
April 19 2020 16:50 GMT
#30
On April 20 2020 01:39 Dante08 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2020 23:40 arbiter_md wrote:
I don't think it's fair towards other players to choose random, unless random means him saying his race in the chat at the beginning of the game. So, the other player could plan how to play before scouting him.


I REALLY don't get why people say it's not fair. You handicap yourself but needing to familiarize ALL 9 matchups instead of just 3 which outweighs the slight advantage of the opponent not knowing your race for the start of the game.


Its a massive advantage, and flash is already familiar with all 9 matchups, hes beaten light and larva with toss, brain with zerg, etc. Flash with random will be stronger than flash with T, because his opponents will have to limit themselves to suboptimal, weak openings that cover all 3 races and can scout early. In certain matchups thats basically an auto loss if the skill level is high enough.

Random should be banned from tournaments if its not already, because it is imbalanced. A huge, unfair advantage is given to one player, and not to another. You do not really have to learn 9 matchups in their entirety either to play random, you only have to learn how to counter the way the opponents race is forced to play vs random. Any advantage early enough outweighs being outplayed later in the game, and sometimes that advantage is too large to overcome even by a superior player.
aka DragOn[NaS]
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9016 Posts
April 19 2020 16:54 GMT
#31
The other player can pick random too! it's not Flash's fault he's so good. Come on.
N.geNuity
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States5112 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-19 17:20:53
April 19 2020 17:19 GMT
#32
Random is good vs p but against pro terran and zerg its not that great. It would be interesting to see.

Pro terrans are good at handling cheese which is randoms greatest strength vs T (huge risks and rewards or very aggressive). A pro terran can just like 1 rax expand most maps and go into a normal game and not too far behind if the random player goes very greedy eco.

Pro zergs, sure the zvz pull can be tough but in a bo3, bo5, bo7 series can the pro zerg just 12 hatch every game?

I think it will be interesting to see if random flash can win zvt, zvz, pvz. Those are his hurdles
iu, seungah, yura, taeyeon, hyosung, lizzy, suji, sojin, jia, ji eun, eunji, soya, younha, jiyeon, fiestar, sinb, jung myung hoon godtier. BW FOREVERR
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7993 Posts
April 19 2020 17:20 GMT
#33
Look guys !! Here is the real proof

Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
April 19 2020 17:51 GMT
#34
On April 20 2020 01:16 Ikirouta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2020 00:54 Miragee wrote:
On April 20 2020 00:17 Ikirouta wrote:
On April 20 2020 00:01 castleeMg wrote:
is this allowed? i thought it was a rule that you couldnt play as random in certain high level tournaments? im also curious to how other pros view this? playing vs random is a lot more of a dice roll with opening builds


iirc that rule was removed a long time ago, we've seen random players in korean tourneys pop up once in a while, most recently BishOp played random in castermuses league.


iirc random was never banned. Race picking for certain match ups was. At least for kespa.


I believe random was banned for a while during old proleague format. Iirc it was something like ZZ in 2v2 was banned -> people played ZR to have a chance to get ZZ, but after that random was banned from 2v2 and 1v1 for a bit. I could be wrong tho.


ZZ was indeed banned from 2v2. For 1v1 i don't recall.

Really really nice to see him do this. I hope he can continue to live his dreams as a player.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
April 19 2020 18:24 GMT
#35
I mean...does anyone actually believe he's going to do this? He's been claiming for years he's retiring or switching races, yet hasn't. It'd definitely be interesting to see but I'm not going to believe it until I actually see it in a tournament.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10670 Posts
April 19 2020 19:29 GMT
#36
My first thought was a late April fools joke, I can't believe this is happening, he will be the best Random player alive lol
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Siz)Beggar
Profile Joined May 2008
United States339 Posts
April 19 2020 19:29 GMT
#37
if im not mistaken didnt flash start as protoss ? then switched to terran before becoming an amateur ?
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
April 19 2020 19:55 GMT
#38
On April 20 2020 01:50 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2020 01:39 Dante08 wrote:
On April 19 2020 23:40 arbiter_md wrote:
I don't think it's fair towards other players to choose random, unless random means him saying his race in the chat at the beginning of the game. So, the other player could plan how to play before scouting him.


I REALLY don't get why people say it's not fair. You handicap yourself but needing to familiarize ALL 9 matchups instead of just 3 which outweighs the slight advantage of the opponent not knowing your race for the start of the game.


Its a massive advantage, and flash is already familiar with all 9 matchups, hes beaten light and larva with toss, brain with zerg, etc. Flash with random will be stronger than flash with T, because his opponents will have to limit themselves to suboptimal, weak openings that cover all 3 races and can scout early. In certain matchups thats basically an auto loss if the skill level is high enough.

Random should be banned from tournaments if its not already, because it is imbalanced. A huge, unfair advantage is given to one player, and not to another. You do not really have to learn 9 matchups in their entirety either to play random, you only have to learn how to counter the way the opponents race is forced to play vs random. Any advantage early enough outweighs being outplayed later in the game, and sometimes that advantage is too large to overcome even by a superior player.

Dragon you racepick pretty much just one matchup. You got ZvP and PvZ down from both races. Flash has to pratice 9 matchups to your 2 matchups and he has 1/3 the practice time for each race.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10462 Posts
April 19 2020 20:01 GMT
#39
Flash off-racing is an idea that has been floated for a while now. I'll believe it when I see it
JakePlissken
Profile Joined August 2018
55 Posts
April 19 2020 20:37 GMT
#40
Yeah, Random seems pretty overpowered when you give it to Flash. I'd say that he's probably the only player in the world that could make an argument for Random being too strong, because he has none of the weaknesses that Random players normally suffer from. He's beaten Jaedong, Larva, Zero, and other top Zergs in ZvZ despite almost never practicing it, played Zerg in competitive 2v2 matches on a whim with success, and revolutionized TvZ several times, so he's not lacking Zerg skill or game knowledge by any means. His Protoss was in the top 10 on ladder for a long time. Now imagine Flash playing random versus Protoss, where his opponent has no all-purpose vs. Random build. That pour soul is forced to either 2 gate and pray that they didn't just open 2 gate against the best TvP in the world, or go ultra greedy and hope Flash is Terran and also not cheesing. Coin flips in the opening never seem go in your favor when you're playing Flash, no matter what race he's playing. Wheras Light's attempt at Protoss was just a rash impulse, I think Flash can actually do really well with Random, and he knows it. It will be interesting to see.
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